Trump's 2nd term didn't start till January 20th - check the date on your article.
Also from your article:
![[H]ard|Forum](/styles/hardforum/xenforo/logo_dark.png){kind=logo}
-
Some users have recently had their accounts hijacked. It seems that the now defunct EVGA forums might have compromised your password there and seems many are using the same PW here. We would suggest you UPDATE YOUR PASSWORD and TURN ON 2FA for your account here to further secure it. None of the compromised accounts had 2FA turned on.
Once you have enabled 2FA, your account will be updated soon to show a badge, letting other members know that you use 2FA to protect your account. This should be beneficial for everyone that uses FSFT.
A new California law says all operating systems, including Linux, need to have some form of age verification at account setup
- Thread starter MrGuvernment
- Start date
Trump's 2nd term didn't start till January 20th - check the date on your article.
Also from your article:
DukenukemX
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2005
- Messages
- 11,194
Elections take place in November and it's not like these laws aren't waiting for someone like Trump to take office. Why is it worded "A US court has rejected the Biden administration's bid to restore "net neutrality" rules," Then later on in July, Trump's FCC removers rules.
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2012
- Messages
- 1,475
In 2017, Ajit Pai was appointed by Trump as chairman of the FCC, and repealed Net Neutrality. In 2021, Biden appointed Jessica Rosenworcel as chairwoman of the FCC, and in 2024, they voted 3-2 to restore Net Neutrality. In January 2, 2025, a federal appeals court struck down the FCC's vote.
So, Trump initially took Net Neutrality down, and Biden put it back up, but the federal appeals court struck it down. Trump appointed Brendan Carr as chairman of the FCC in 2025. He was a commissioner in 2017 that helped repeal the Net Neutrality rules in 2017. In July of 2025, Carr removed the 41 rules or requirements the Biden administration setup to restore Net Neutrality. So, it's pretty much gone for good.
there is no actual age verification yet (in this case, for this laws), voluntary birth date entering (so entered once at account creation) will take care of it.
Because it is at OS level (best place to be if it is to exist according to most I think), it become easy to protect that date and have a different token per session to not add tracking info.
yes it is years away before age-id is actually put in, California allow for people initiative ballow and to be voted in, in a faster way than that.
Net Neutrality is clearly congress and not a job biden or Trump president power (as the constitution and courts clearly said), it is not something people want. It sound great as a tag (specially when the web was all website), but the idea that self driving cars internet traffic could not be prioritised over streaming netflix in your car before some getting goverment approval is not a particularly good idea (and i.e. the net obviouisly not being neutral, not something actually desirable, not something any proposal actually propose, what it propose is for the goverment to say what traffic it is ok to prioritise like calls-video calls over which like streaming netflix or downloading steam games, not for the net to be actually neutral)
Last edited:
Axman
VP of Extreme Liberty
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2005
- Messages
- 20,196
DHH is gonna fight it (and he's got deep pockets):
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y14McrK3nBk
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y14McrK3nBk
Again, read your own article, it was struck down on Jan 2, 2025 based on a Supreme Court ruling from June 2024 (Loper Bright Enterprises v. Raimondo)
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2006
- Messages
- 2,192
And even moreso - they didn't even realize Net Neutraility no longer existed, showing its pointlessness IMO.
DukenukemX
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2005
- Messages
- 11,194
I figured some Linux distro would fight this. I'm not sure how much money Omarchy has to fight this? I'd imagine if this was taken to court that it would be a slum dunk case. I still hate Lunduke.
Again, how is this not a huge problem that's not on everyone's tongue?
mullet
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2004
- Messages
- 3,291
We brush our teeth?
DukenukemX
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2005
- Messages
- 11,194
System76 wrote a very angry letter about this. Nothing useful but it's the thought that counts. Here's a website where you can track which states are thinking of implementing similar age verification laws. You can even send a message through the website to tell them to not pass this law. I know I did for NY.
https://action.freespeechcoalition.com/age-verification-bills/
View: https://youtu.be/VliKQmEPDnA?si=zzEV1ar_OoeQqkdA
https://action.freespeechcoalition.com/age-verification-bills/
View: https://youtu.be/VliKQmEPDnA?si=zzEV1ar_OoeQqkdA
DukenukemX
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2005
- Messages
- 11,194
Doesn't sound like it's limited to the PC. The wording makes it seem like the info is sent to a server and even apps/programs need to comply. Which makes every application always online. This does bring up to question what happens when you have no internet connection? Can you still use your PC?
I'm going to go back and work on my Sega Neptune board. Simpler times when the pedo government isn't trying to push draconian laws to stop other pedos.
I guess that's true, but it's a case of "chickenpox is better than smallpox." How about just no age verification? (Yes, I know all the counterarguments.)
It's quite simple - user creates a local user account, OS asks for age, user can enter anything. From there third party software can read the figure and tailor content appropriately.
Better than providing my license to see a meme on Discord (which didn't remove the age restriction even though it told me I was age verified as an adult).
mullet
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2004
- Messages
- 3,291
No way! slippery slope. Parents need to be parents.
Last edited:
DukenukemX
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2005
- Messages
- 11,194
Are they required to phone home? We know this isn't about age verification but more like tracking a person. Give me your age and IP address and I can track you down. Does the OS and apps send a signal back to server somewhere? This law is so badly written it's hard to tell.
We all know there are ways to do it and keep users information private. But, none of the politicians and none of the companies want that to exist so they're never going to allow anything that demands privacy. The only way you'll get true online privacy is if a LOT of politicians had their privacy violated in a really bad way, including their family members. Then they might fight to get something done assuming they're not bribed into silence by all the companies selling user data. But, as long as it is just us peons pushing for privacy it is probably doomed to failure because the politicians and the companies don't benefit from us having privacy.
what would trigger the api call that would fail ? Why that api call would fail as the birth of date is encrypted on the computer itself with the os account having access to it.
this is about age verification (there is a world demands of parents that feel Internet is rotten child brains, you can see laws limiting social media use, online gambling use, online porn use to child popping up everywhere in the world) and on competent OS (iOs, linux, windows) should not add much ability to track a person they will use different session token for each asker.
they can only receive a category, under 13, 14-15, 16-17, 18+ or something of the sorts and yes it is better if it is to exist there of all place, that give that info to Netflix, youtube and everyone.
it is not your exact age, it is a age category and for tracking it could happen if an OS would use the same token for every demander but they will not do that, the law make it really clear that the date of birth stay private and no major tracking ability has to be added (age category are wide and common that it will be on of the 40 elements used)
because no one was able to tell when net neutrality came and went, because it is not fixing a problem anyone can express. People would need to google to know which year it was and was not.
Google, netflix, facebook lobby hard for it (amazon, microsoft, dropbox, etc...) they gave a quarter of a billion to politician pushing it in recent years, trying to guarantee people never use their giant bandwidth use to finance Internet infrastructure build out, facing the people building the Internet infrastructure that lobby against it.
In Canada the net is extremelly unneutral, in your phone plan for example voice data often does not count the same as other data, VoIP calls have network traffic priority and other QoS for some traffic do exist .
No country have actual net neutrality and it would be a terrible idea, many do use the word for something that try to create some of it in some ways, now because you do not want actual net neutrality for which it is illegal for an ambulance emergency net traffic to have priority over youtube, who do you want to decide and do you want to make illegal until an government made exception is done for technological advancement to occur.
About ~10 us states have state level net neutrality laws already, California being the strongest in that regard, not sure many knowns if they live in one or not, because of how little of an issues this is.
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2004
- Messages
- 23,936
Yes but who do you think the OS makers will use for verification? They are not likely building their own verification system when it comes time to actually provide proof of age, which is the direction this WILL go in.
First you start with a simple "please set your age" which we know people will fake as we have done for decades...
Then comes the "this isn't working, we need to verify with documents", then they just call into Persona or some other 3rd party anyways..
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2004
- Messages
- 23,936
The issue is, like the bill C4 in Canada, is Politicians want to make themselves exempt from said laws, that they can not be tracked and have privacy, but the rest of us slaves have to provide everything and give backdoors. I believe UK Politicians are pushing for similar when it comes to the back doors and being able to access DM's and such, because they are considered government officials so their crap is "confidential" or "national security".
Personally I do wish this is where a group like Anon would manage to massively breach these people trying to pass said laws and leak out all their goodies..
I think they will already, the API will from the get go have an api call that will say, validated or not age (so the porn-social media and other statesécountry bans that has actual age verification laws can use it and not just the volontuary for the parents one), as a service, because people will much prefer their iPhone than pornhub having their personal data.
If there is to have any such age verification affair, OS level is probably by far the prefered (by privacy/security expert and regular users, they trust their own device way more than blackbox website and for good reason, single time to do it instead for everything and so on)
Last edited:
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2004
- Messages
- 23,936
Certainly, I mean having it in your OS and not having to provide it to sites who are using whom ever they feel like, or likely the cheapest provider to verify your docs which end up in the hands of who knows who...
But then the other side is then centralization of said verification systems to one major player, would end up being similar to credit sites like Equifax or TransUnion, they end up owning the market and we have no choice.
Axman
VP of Extreme Liberty
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2005
- Messages
- 20,196
That is incorrect.
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2007
- Messages
- 4,574
Sadly age verification is coming and there's nothing we can do about it. Apple is already working on baking it into iOS in some fashion. Baking it into the OS makes the most sense but how do you verify the age that maintains a users privacy?
There are two issues with age verification though.
1. The laws are not enforceable. How do you determine someone is putting in the proper age? How do you know that Mom and Dad put the kids age in correctly but the kid fires up a VM and bypasses the restrictions? How do you enforce this on Linux? I'll just rip it right out of my distro of choice. If you're website or app requires me to verify my age...well I don't need you that much.
2. There needs to be a way to do the age verification that is privacy preserving. Only give a token back that says "yes this person is over X age". No actual age is given. Just a yes or no. However, that still leaves the question how do you verify the age in the beginning that is privacy respecting?
Chagne age for date of birth, the california laws is exactly that, if a parent create an account for its child and want to use that service they can, but there is no ID check here.
That what the current law do is that person is below 13, 14-15, 16-17 or of age are the call the OS need to have and they can give a token per asker to avoid tracking (and no actual age/date birth is shared, that locally encrypted). For now the question as it is only for parents that want ot use it (in the California context)
In state with actual age verfitcation, upload of goverment ID is a common way to do it, selfie and AI checking if you are clearly an adult an other one (but with generation of selfie now taht seem hard to battle and just allow clearly adult, not under 13 or 15, 17 or 19, etc...), in australia they simply did put all the burden on the platform, which all use different affair but they do offer an goverment digital ID that can help.
Last edited:
Axman
VP of Extreme Liberty
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2005
- Messages
- 20,196
It's a lot more vague, and you have to take other state and nation requirements into consideration.
This is a huge problem looming.
The point isn't that the law doesn't apply to them, its that bad actors can use the shitty system they enforce to get at them. Only when bad actors go after politicians (and their families) is when they might ignore their bribes to do something about it. If the politicians thought that the system would provide a way to expose them they wouldn't do it, no matter the financial incentives, because the wife will take most of the money in the divorce.
The no id requirement seem quite clear: Provide an accessible interface at account setup that requires an account holder to indicate the birth date, age, or both, of the user of that device for the purpose of providing a signal regarding the user’s age bracket to applications available in a covered application store.
specially in the context that all actual age verification laws put explicit verbage about how it is verified.
But yes australia and state that has actual age verification, if things go well and we are lucky will start to use this, that the thing with the California proposal, because it is the big tech states it is written in a way that protect big tech a lot, if there is to have such laws/habbit (and it is inevitable like many said, already today common around the world), having them shift it to be in the OS is by far the best place for it to be, so fighting this would be a bit double edged sword.
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2007
- Messages
- 4,574
Yeah I'm not handing over my government issued ID for age verification. Ask Discord how that worked out for them. Also you can ask Coinbase and IDMerit about it as well.
yup that why on your own device OS level api call (with none of the website having access to anything else than a 18+ returning yes with a unique token by asker) is such a better idea and was push by the industry we can assume (everything that come from california politician will tend to be from expert big tech point of view)
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2007
- Messages
- 4,574
That still leaves the question about how do you verify the age? On device? Yeah, like that won't be bypassed.
Axman
VP of Extreme Liberty
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2005
- Messages
- 20,196
It's the thin edge of the wedge. The honor system is temporary.
On this law, it is made to be, has it is a parent tool for them to use or not (remember this is a really pro big tech law, as the best possible scenario for them with parents pushing this on them, that the best vresion that protect them and the Internet in general the most and hurt their business the least), there is zero age verification done asked by that law.
Would it be (or for using this api for state that have actual age laws), AI selfie recognition, picture of state ids, goverment id will be the type used.
yes almost certainly, but there is giant big tech dolar lobby that will try to keep permanents, if things work well for parents, possible they do not ask for more, MPAA achieved no have never any actual age laws for movie theater forever after all, that lobby pulled it off.
You have a worldwide parents pressure of one side, but on the other the richest companies in the world
Last edited:
Phone home with what? An arbitrary figure that's supposed to be your age? Personally I think this is the least invasive implementation of age verification.
Axman
VP of Extreme Liberty
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2005
- Messages
- 20,196
No, this is pure user-tracking. The least invasive method is the one already in place: are you 18/21? Click yes or no.
And this is essentially the same thing. You told your OS you were 18 when you created your local account on your PC, instead of asking everytime, third party applications simply have to read the age from your PC via a hook so you don't have to enter your age and say yes/no everytime age verification is needed.
Cookies are more invasive than that.
I've had my current email address since about 2006. I have email going that far back. Therefore Google has no reason not to believe I'm at least 20. (I've got hotmail addresses that were created around 1996, too, but I don't have any emails that old in them.)
The issue here is that existing and proposed laws are making "self-declared" ages not an acceptable thing for platforms to check against, so this is California trying to mandate a precursor step, get the functionality in place so when they come out in a few months and say, oh now this feature we made you implement also needs to use government ID to be compliant...