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A message to ATI

M1dknight said:
Not saying that everyone who buys stuff there is a muppet, I got my GT there. But everyone knows that in the UK PCWorld has a huge influence on sales just by what they carry in stock and for the last month or two they have had no X800's of any kind and loads of 6800 cards so this can't be good for ATI.

Also when you go into the store you notice (where I live at least) very little X800 cards and a reasonable supply of 6800 stuff with the retard sales assistants pushing it on anyone they can.
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Ya thats true. Also their instore prices do not correlate well to their pcwcc prices.

The stores are designed/aimed for the masses. They know it wont wash online a rule so they change pricing etc.
 
Noodle Boy said:
Ummm correct me if I'm wrong but I read on those hardware websites that ATI is making "native" PCI Express cards, which means that they can't be bridged, therefore ATI has to make both AGP and PCI Express versions, whereas Nvidia made the bridged solution with their cards, correct? And I hear that the bridged solutions would add some latency, but would you really notice a difference because PCI Express has so much more bandwidth than AGP? Again I'm a noobie so I can always be wrong :)
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You are right, ATi has to make two variations of thier chips, and nV only has to make one, the same chip they are making now just with HSI. But the HSI theoretically should slow down the card but the early benchmarks haven't really showed the slow down. They are performing, a bit better because of the higher clocks.
 
I thought ATI decided to build PCI - express cards and if needed use the bridge chip to go back to agp..
 
Syphon Filter said:
You were having issues tho dude, plenty of people are running CSS just fine on GTs at 16x12.

also u wanna play at 2048. Thats all well and good but when has a game come out that can be played at that sort of res with all the bells and whistles on hardware available at the same time?

Games are generally coded to be played at 8x6, 10x7 or 12x10. To get games to run at any higher levels you usually have to wait for new gen hardware. I'm not making this up its educated and reasoned logic.

Could [insert 3D game name here] be run at like 16x12 when it first came out on hardware widely available at the time??

I think mostly you will find the answer is no. The uber high resolutions (ie 1280x1024 and above are generally meant for desktop/2D applications so you get lots of screen real estate.
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All 2048x tests show that the VST and CSS are playable at 2048x with the x800xt and the 6800 can no doubt just about make 2048x, maybe. I'm refering to the Css benchmarks, not my faulty card's performance :p

The VST is NOT representative of Gameplay in HL2.
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CSS is. X800xt runs it faster. So with HL2 the fps is going to be higher in your opinion(s)? Even at intense parts of the game? i doubt it.
 
Syphon Filter said:
Could [insert 3D game name here] be run at like 16x12 when it first came out on hardware widely available at the time??

I think mostly you will find the answer is no. The uber high resolutions (ie 1280x1024 and above are generally meant for desktop/2D applications so you get lots of screen real estate.
Click to expand...

I disagree. Back in the day when Graphic card companies were trying to catch up with the games that were being made. Games utilized the higher resolutions that monitors were capable of to get the highest res...best looking gaming you can get. That is not the case today. All the games that are coming out soon (new games on older tech, or not as heavy as Far Cry or Doom 3.. like COD expansion, Medal of Honor Pacific Assault, and numerous amounts that I cannot think of right now should have no problems running 1600x1200 on current generation cards...especially since we have seen Doom III at 1600x1200 with AA and AF..
 
HeXeD said:
I disagree. Back in the day when Graphic card companies were trying to catch up with the games that were being made. Games utilized the higher resolutions that monitors were capable of to get the highest res...best looking gaming you can get. That is not the case today. All the games that are coming out soon (new games on older tech, or not as heavy as Far Cry or Doom 3.. like COD expansion, Medal of Honor Pacific Assault, and numerous amounts that I cannot think of right now should have no problems running 1600x1200 on current generation cards...especially since we have seen Doom III at 1600x1200 with AA and AF..
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Technically speaking these games should have been out with last years cards :). Games are generally made for high settings medium resolution, no aa and af, for the top end cards of today, so it will be extendable for higher end cards that come out later.
 
The Batman said:
I don't think any ATI people surf HOCP. Not when we're so 'GT' friendly. ;)
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Who's we ? I'm pretty sure there is even an ati forum hiding somewhere here :p I'm willing to bet there are a lot of posters completely oblivious to the rampant chest beating.
 
rancor said:
Technically speaking these games should have been out with last years cards :). Games are generally made for high settings medium resolution, no aa and af, for the top end cards of today, so it will be extendable for higher end cards that come out later.
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thank you for saying that so i didnt have to.
 
That's precisely the point. Why are they spending so much time doing UI when they can't nail the fundamentals? If all they have are people who can do UI, then they don't have the right people. Hire driver programmers, ATi!
 
this leapfrog of who's better jumps around alot the thing that disturbs me is the fact that even in ATI's next gen cards ont he horizon they still are ignoring PS3 support not that it is a HUGE deal but it does have some great graphics enhancements.
 
The whole driver control panel is a gimmick. Although it is probably better than having 1,000 tabs under "Advanced settings" to click through. :rolleyes:

I think people would have been much happier with them SIMPLIFYING their CP so it is like the nVidia display setting implementation, and actually making their OpenGL drivers not suck balls.

Signed, mostly happy ATI former customer (and current 6800 GT owner :p )
 
Blad3 said:
CSS is. X800xt runs it faster. So with HL2 the fps is going to be higher in your opinion(s)? Even at intense parts of the game? i doubt it.
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If you want to call one map on a converted game "representative" go ahead, but I think you are getting a little ahead of yourself. Until HL2 actually ships it is all speculation as to how "much" better ATI will perform over Nv latest gen (which is not much with the VST as only the XT consistently beats out the 6800). And as far as the 6800 reaching 2048, you need to check out the linked article.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2182&p=5
 
I haven't tried the new cat's (4.9's) yet because I've been too lazy to upgrade it, hell I even have it sitting on my desktop... point is they finally came out with the opengl fix this thread was meant to help catalyze(ahah, excuse the pun!)

~Adam
 
My friend with the X800 XTPE has been playing CS:S for the past few weeks (courtesy of his Condition Zero purchase, just in "time" lol).

He is running at, i believe, the native resolution for his 23" Apple Display (the new ones)...to say it is beautiful is an understatement. Going back to CS 1.6 was an utter slap in the face...um, i dunno if can play it at all anymore.

*oh wait, went off topic* Yes, he too had problems with the Control Panel. Um, yeah, he ditched it after about 2 hours. Back to the classic CP.

I agree. Optimize OGL first for god sake. This is the reason my brother with his T-Bird @ 1.3 + GF3 managed better fps than me and my 2100+ and 8500 for quite some time in CS. *shaking head*
 
People are only "GT friendly" because they adopted the 6800 GT early on when there was no ATi equivalent. The same people were "9800 friendly" only a few months ago and most likely will flop flop again come this spring.

The Batman said:
I don't think any ATI people surf HOCP. Not when we're so 'GT' friendly. ;)
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MFZ said:
People are only "GT friendly" because they adopted the 6800 GT early on when there was no ATi equivalent. The same people were "9800 friendly" only a few months ago and most likely will flop flop again come this spring.
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Well, I don't feel any flack at all...my 8500's been beating up my bro's Gainward Geforce 3 for quite some time :)

But, come 2-3 months later, isn't that GT going to represent the new "9800Pro", the 6600GT?
*haha, reminds me too. I better change my sig, as the 6800NU's aren't going to be worth the extra $100--that money will go into another stick of ballistix =D
 
The people who make the GUI aren't necessarily the same people writing the interface for OpenGL.
 
Yes this is true but the money is the same, it takes money in the form of man hours to make both the gui and the opengl optimizations. Which would you have chosen to make? Not a hard choice IMO.. pretty damned obvious.

~Adam
 
^^ Just noting you use DDR speak in your siggie. 11.5*360... Didnt know tbreds could do 4.14GHz .

Ah well, thats probably as helpful as most of this other junk. I have a 9700pro and am getting a GT. Thats what normal people do... they make choices, vote with their money. Not write letters on some forum. I could see if you had some game crashing... but ya ever think ATi cards were targetting Directx a little? There will be small increases that should add up as they say but the golden opengl bit just isnt coming. I'm not knocking them, they have there strengths as does nV. So pick and stop feeling like your best friend let you down because its a waste of time.

Also, you guys have absolutely no idea how many man hours are devoted to improving OpenGL nor whether it would be a too many hands in the kitchen so to speak scenario. Yeah sure they'll just get an ace programmer to jump in and fix your Doom3... yeah right.
 
It is meant to be DDR speak.

And it comes down to money like you said. They will get an ace programmer... if they get flamed all to hell about it.

It'll make them wake up for God's sakes even their most friendly allies are screaming "opengl fix"... which to me 4.9 is as close as it gets right now.

~Adam
 
CleanSlate said:
Yes this is true but the money is the same, it takes money in the form of man hours to make both the gui and the opengl optimizations. Which would you have chosen to make? Not a hard choice IMO.. pretty damned obvious.

~Adam
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You can't just fire some GUI guys and hire some OpenGL guys at whim. This isn't practical since odds are ATI makes their drivers in house as opposed to having them contracted.
 
You guys just don't understand. Satan makes video cards. Why don't you go ask him?
 
obs said:
You can't just fire some GUI guys and hire some OpenGL guys at whim. This isn't practical since odds are ATI makes their drivers in house as opposed to having them contracted.
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Contracting in some people and putting their GUI guys to work on something else on a different part of their budget would do just fine.

It's all about shuffling budget and people around for more efficiency in the right areas.

~Adam
 
MFZ said:
People are only "GT friendly" because they adopted the 6800 GT early on when there was no ATi equivalent. The same people were "9800 friendly" only a few months ago and most likely will flop flop again come this spring.
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So true, I love seeing people knock one company or the other, only to purchase a card from that company a few months later.
 
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