A Firewall for Your Car’s Black Box

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While the term "firewall" doesn't accurately describe this thing, it is still a pretty cool idea for anyone that owns a newer model car. Think of it as a padlock for the Onboard Diagnostic Port under your dash.

It’s called the AutoCyb and it’s a deceptively simple solution: a mechanical dongle that plugs into a car’s diagnostic port, and locks in place with a key. “In concept, it is as simple as locking your glove compartment or the front door of your house,” Kowalick tells Wired.
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This is like putting a lock on a screen door. Being an Auto Tech for 22 years, I don't need your OBDII port to access any info in any module. Just a wiring diagram and tapping into the CAN BUS and I AM ROOT.
 
bbvdd2 said:
This is like putting a lock on a screen door. Being an Auto Tech for 22 years, I don't need your OBDII port to access any info in any module. Just a wiring diagram and tapping into the CAN BUS and I AM ROOT.
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Heh, exactly. For whoever wants to buy this, I'm selling some protective flexible plastic conduit and a roll of special electrical tape that will guarantee this guy ^ won't fiddle with the wires behind that locking device.

Just $99.95.
 
Ha, a lot of the modules that I read/program, I actually remove from the car and do right on the bench. This device is way tooo easy to bypass. All you need to do is tap into one wire behind the OBDII port anyways and you're golden.
 
Funny something like this shows up... I just bought an OBDII Bluetooth adapter from DX... reset the check engine light on 2 vehicles already, and diagnosed a problem with another.

Best $12 I ever spent.
 
Fooshnik said:
I put a condom over mine.
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It's not the ancient one that wore a ring shaped spot into your wallet is it? :D

Anyhow, since when did cars even start having computer junk in them that needed some sort of plug to use? Isn't that what the screen in the dashboard is supposed to do?
 
If you have nothing free, you have nothing to fear. Black boxes are good....but the last one did give me an STD, it required four pills. Wonder if that data is useful to the man?
 
MasonD said:
If you have nothing free, you have nothing to fear. Black boxes are good....but the last one did give me an STD, it required four pills. Wonder if that data is useful to the man?
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You are a lunatic if you think black boxes in cars are good. In planes yes, in cars?
 
Can't we just replace the blackbox with something that doesn't hold memory after its turned off?
 
Just need a can of spray paint (just not black), and like magic...no more pesky black box! :p
Sorry, couldn't resist.

This whole "black box" business is just another regulatory control grab and cash generator shoved down our throats as being for our protection. I say there should be a way to opt out, or be given the ability to disable features that compromise our privacy, and basically make vehicles self incriminating, but we all know the chances of that happening. :mad:
 
Most vehicles produced up to this point do not retain as much data as a "black box" on an aircraft. I have been a tech for the last 25 years. The recording function in most current vehicle only capture immediate data around an event, any event. Event being defined as an error witnessed by the onboard computer (PCM, ECM, or what ever that particular manufacturer calls it.) An event can be a sensor going bad or when an air bag deploys. Either way something is going wrong that the PCM does not like so it records the data within a few seconds of the event and then throws a code (ie Check Engine light or some other diagnostic trouble light). This fear that someone can download all of your cars history is somewhat unfounded. Assuming I have access to your car, I hook my scan tool up (which is a manufacture specific machine) and I can pull codes. If you do not have any codes, there is no event data. Now is it possible for me to go in and find security data? Yes. However most scan tools will not access this. I mainly work with Ford vehicles. My scan tool is from Ford. Even though I can access security elements on a Ford vehicle, there are other safe guards that prevent me from abusing or tampering. The only thing I could really do is change the code in you security key, but that would require that I had a key to your vehicle and 15 minutes of uninterrupted time due to a security delay.
The data the PCM does record is very helpful to mechanics. It helps us fix your vehicle. If you are one who says vehicle should not have this, tell your tech next time that to not use the OBD port and fix it without that information. I would bet you either will not have your vehicle worked on or they will just replace parts blindly at your cost. So good luck with that.

Long story short, the OBD lock is a pointless idea.
 
cocheese256 said:
Most vehicles produced up to this point do not retain as much data as a "black box" on an aircraft. I have been a tech for the last 25 years. The recording function in most current vehicle only capture immediate data around an event, any event. Event being defined as an error witnessed by the onboard computer (PCM, ECM, or what ever that particular manufacturer calls it.) An event can be a sensor going bad or when an air bag deploys. Either way something is going wrong that the PCM does not like so it records the data within a few seconds of the event and then throws a code (ie Check Engine light or some other diagnostic trouble light). This fear that someone can download all of your cars history is somewhat unfounded. Assuming I have access to your car, I hook my scan tool up (which is a manufacture specific machine) and I can pull codes. If you do not have any codes, there is no event data. Now is it possible for me to go in and find security data? Yes. However most scan tools will not access this. I mainly work with Ford vehicles. My scan tool is from Ford. Even though I can access security elements on a Ford vehicle, there are other safe guards that prevent me from abusing or tampering. The only thing I could really do is change the code in you security key, but that would require that I had a key to your vehicle and 15 minutes of uninterrupted time due to a security delay.
The data the PCM does record is very helpful to mechanics. It helps us fix your vehicle. If you are one who says vehicle should not have this, tell your tech next time that to not use the OBD port and fix it without that information. I would bet you either will not have your vehicle worked on or they will just replace parts blindly at your cost. So good luck with that.

Long story short, the OBD lock is a pointless idea.
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Thank you for that! I heard a story on NPR about these boxes a month or so ago. They supposedly record data at the last few moments leading up to an accident, or some other type of failure. That data can then go back to the R&D to see how well the safety features worked that they implemented.

I'm with the crowd of, "I'm not doing anything stupid...go ahead and look at the data. Knock yourself out."
 
I don't mind black boxes as long as they reduce our insurance premiums. If that's not happening, I don't want the black box.
 
If they serve no function other than to record,i wonder if they can be turned off?
 
A black box could also exonerate you from guilt in an accident. Suppose someone backs into you and tries to claim that you rear ended them instead. The box could show acceleration data to indicate if you even had your foot on the gas at the time.
 
McFry said:
A black box could also exonerate you from guilt in an accident. Suppose someone backs into you and tries to claim that you rear ended them instead. The box could show acceleration data to indicate if you even had your foot on the gas at the time.
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Yeah which is why I said it should lower your insurance premiums. Part of the cost of insurance is investigative cost. With the black box doing all of the footwork, it should eliminate that cost - unless the driver disputes it, forcing a full investigation.
 
This is idiotic. Someone trying to make a buck on idiots.

In a crashed car where the data is needed, the BCM or Airbag module, or any other module they want is simply physically removed and sent out to be read.
 
cyclone3d said:
Volkswagon had the D-Jetronic ECU that was used in the 411 in 1967.

Datsun/Nissan had an ECU in the 280z in 1975.

Not sure about anything between those years.
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Those were analog devices, no digital information was processed or stored.
 
I am not sure why this is a big deal to people all of a sudden. All light duty vehicles sold in the U.S. have had this ability since 1996. That was when OBD2 was required on all light duty vehicle by the government to create a "unified" connector on all vehicles so that emission tests could be performed. Before that, each manufacturer had their own proprietary connectors for diagnostics. Pre OBD2, most systems did not retain data if the vehicle was shut off unless it was considered a hard fault. OBD1 systems were very difficult to diagnose.
 
Azhar said:
Yeah which is why I said it should lower your insurance premiums. Part of the cost of insurance is investigative cost. With the black box doing all of the footwork, it should eliminate that cost - unless the driver disputes it, forcing a full investigation.
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Be realistic. This is not going to lower insurance costs one cent.
 
LeninGHOLA said:
Be realistic. This is not going to lower insurance costs one cent.
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Of course it's not. I'm saying it should. You always hear this and that's being done to save cost. Cost to whom? Insurance companies' bottom line? Insurance companies in the United States is nothing but legal scam.
 
cocheese256 said:
I am not sure why this is a big deal to people all of a sudden. All light duty vehicles sold in the U.S. have had this ability since 1996. That was when OBD2 was required on all light duty vehicle by the government to create a "unified" connector on all vehicles so that emission tests could be performed. Before that, each manufacturer had their own proprietary connectors for diagnostics. Pre OBD2, most systems did not retain data if the vehicle was shut off unless it was considered a hard fault. OBD1 systems were very difficult to diagnose.
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I've read the SAE documentation for a lot of this stuff. There are certain *minimum* requirements for wiring, emissions and codes, but thats about it. A lot of it is up to the manufacturer.

Just because the USB port is standard (hardware and basic device drivers) doesn't mean the OS is going to what you want it to do.
 
Azhar said:
Of course it's not. I'm saying it should. You always hear this and that's being done to save cost. Cost to whom? Insurance companies' bottom line? Insurance companies in the United States is nothing but legal scam.
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Yea, it should. Good drivers should also get a rebate for a percentage of what they paid at the end of the year with a clean driving record. Unfortunately, insurance companies are run like the mafia.
 
LeninGHOLA said:
Yea, it should. Good drivers should also get a rebate for a percentage of what they paid at the end of the year with a clean driving record. Unfortunately, insurance companies are run like the mafia.
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Yeah, I'm paying $108 a month for a 2005 Maxima, full coverage. Never had an accident in my life and I'm 40 years old. It's ridiculous. The amount I put into insurance from my first car when I was 16 up until now has long covered whatever accident I'll ever get into from here on in my life.
 
Azhar said:
Yeah, I'm paying $108 a month for a 2005 Maxima, full coverage. Never had an accident in my life and I'm 40 years old. It's ridiculous. The amount I put into insurance from my first car when I was 16 up until now has long covered whatever accident I'll ever get into from here on in my life.
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Bah, you're only out like $30,000. Well worth it for the... uh... peace of mind?
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
Um what? Computers were the size of soccer fields in the 1960's.
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Must be a pretty small soccer field :

450px-PDP-8.jpg
 
Yeah, pretty dumb. In any case, on the GM products (probably true for all), you cannot read the EDR data through the OBDII port. You must remove the airbag computer from the vehicle and use a special adapter and software to read the contents.

I'd be REALLY leary about buying anything that claims to be able to write to the airbag computer via the OBDII. Bad things can happen. The ECM (engine computer) must be booted before you can read the OBDII port. And when the ignition is ON, the airbags can deploy.
 
Monkey God said:
I've read the SAE documentation for a lot of this stuff. There are certain *minimum* requirements for wiring, emissions and codes, but thats about it. A lot of it is up to the manufacturer.

Just because the USB port is standard (hardware and basic device drivers) doesn't mean the OS is going to what you want it to do.
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Only certain systems are read by universal scan tools. Most of those codes that are "universal" are powertrain and emissions related. That being said, there are still manufacture specific codes that only make sense if you have a workshop manual for that specif make and model. Systems that do not involve powertrain and emissions are not required to have "universal" codes. I quote universal because not every vehicle will have the same cause for generating a code. In other words I could have a code P0401 in both a Ford F150 and a Chevy Tahoe. Just because both these vehicle have the same code in them does not mean they both have the same problem. One may have a bad EGR valve, the other may have a faulty DPFE sensor. This is where manual diagnosis still comes into play.
 
Red Squirrel said:
Since when do cars have black boxes? Is this something that can be disabled?
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Remove your airbags. Unless you're wearing a helmet and a 5-pt, I wouldn't, but that's up to you.

The black boxes are intended for scientific research and product liability concerning airbag operation.

Airbags have improved a lot based on this data at first. Now, they are just used for product liability. ie - Someone sues Ford because the airbag deployed too early or did not deploy.

The fact Law Enforcement has seen fit to use this information is worrisome for future. Not because of what is in your car TODAY, but because of what they might do in the future.

Now keep in mind, the info today in the black box is only about the last 5 seconds? before the airbags deploy. If you crash going 100 mph, and someone dies, they will use it against you in court successfully. This is based on an actual case in a GM Corvette.
 
A modern car has a LOT of computers in it.

I think mine has 7?

ECM engine
TCM trans
BCM windows, lights, dash, etc
Speedo
ABS
Stability Control
Radio (yes the radio talks to the engine)
 
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