A few questions about Creative X-Fi

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HighwayAssassins

Supreme [H]ardness
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Mar 2, 2004
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First off, CMSS 3D. Is it just for headphones, or should I have it enabled all teh time? Stereo Xpand or Stereo Surround? What percent envelopment?

Also, I just installed the drivers, giving me access to 24-bit crystalizer and all that stuff, but not all the pretty GUI equalizers...should I install that stuff, or is it just useless bloatware?

If I have gaming mode and entertainment mode set to the same specs, do I still need to switch back and forth for ideal playback?

Also, why does my computer tend to forget I have a 5.1, not a 2.1 setup? I always find myself reenabling the 5.1!

Thanks!
 
CMSS in the X-Fi does a few different things depending on the mode. In CMSS 3D Headphone mode, it produces a pretty good surround imaging with stereo headphones. In CMSS Music modes, it will either expand the sound stage across all speakers or you can set it to simply duplicate sound to the front and rear speakers. There is a front to rear fader slider to control where the most volume is in the two music modes.
 
BBA said:
CMSS in the X-Fi does a few different things depending on the mode. In CMSS 3D Headphone mode, it produces a pretty good surround imaging with stereo headphones. In CMSS Music modes, it will either expand the sound stage across all speakers or you can set it to simply duplicate sound to the front and rear speakers. There is a front to rear fader slider to control where the most volume is in the two music modes.
Click to expand...
Should I use Stereo Surround, or Stereo Xpand for a 5.1 setup?
 
HighwayAssassins said:
Should I use Stereo Surround, or Stereo Xpand for a 5.1 setup?
Click to expand...
It's a matter of taste in the end, but I prefer Stereo Xpand or not having either enabled. Stereo Surround just duplicates the stereo sound from the fronts and sends it to the other speakers. What I don't like about this is that it doesn't lower the volume of the source and sounds a lot louder than it should and can drown out 3d sounds in games. Stereo Xpand on the other hand is a more advanced upmix which seems to have gotten more attention from Creative since it doesn't affect the volume in the same way and can be used in games without drowning out 3d sounds.
Between Game and Entertainment mode Stereo Xpand sounds very different. Entertainment mode modifies the stereo source a lot more than what it does in Game mode, a consequence of getting max performance in Game mode I guess. You'll have to test yourself and see which you like the best. The version in Entertainment mode is very nice in console ports which are usually in stereo. Keep in mind that upmixing doesn't always make stereo music sound better, so there isn't an ideal setting if you want everything to sound their best. If you want the easy purist way out, just disable upmixing and the crystalizer as they can really downgrade the sound sometimes.
I recommend installing the other interface stuff since it doesn't draw as much resources as it did with earlier Creative cards. Not having "sync with control panel" selected should fix the problem with the drivers setting to 2 speaker mode all the time.
 
HighwayAssassins said:
Should I use Stereo Surround, or Stereo Xpand for a 5.1 setup?
Click to expand...

I find that in both games and movies CMSS3D Stereo Surround sounds better to me.
But I am on a 7.1 setup, it might differ from a 5.1 setup.
But I find that CMSS3D Stereo Xpand dosn't really get the rear speakers going and the sounds..well..dosn't match the CMSS3D Stereo Surround...sounds like something is missing to me.
And yes, disable that "sync with control panel"
FarCry eg. insists on fucking with the speaker settings...

Terra...
 
Thanks for the replys guys. After fooling around a little, this setup sounds ALOT better...

Another question: I have an X-Fi as well as logitech Z-5500's. In my X-Fi drivers, should I set the dolby digital stuff to be decoded on the card, or on the speakers? Is one clearly better than the other? Seems to me like the card might do it better, but teh speakers know themselves better and would be able to make it sound better if decoded onboard...

Also, for my Z-5500's, whats the best mode? I have been using 6 Ch Direct figguring the sound card is putting the sound where it should be...is there a better mode for all around gaming, music and movies?
 
HighwayAssassins said:
Thanks for the replys guys. After fooling around a little, this setup sounds ALOT better...

Another question: I have an X-Fi as well as logitech Z-5500's. In my X-Fi drivers, should I set the dolby digital stuff to be decoded on the card, or on the speakers? Is one clearly better than the other? Seems to me like the card might do it better, but teh speakers know themselves better and would be able to make it sound better if decoded onboard...

Also, for my Z-5500's, whats the best mode? I have been using 6 Ch Direct figguring the sound card is putting the sound where it should be...is there a better mode for all around gaming, music and movies?
Click to expand...

I got an friend who has had a X-Fi and Z-5500's for a while, and he is quite into audio.
I'll ask him about his impression and settings when I get a hold of him :)

Terra...
 
HighwayAssassins said:
Thanks for the replys guys. After fooling around a little, this setup sounds ALOT better...

Another question: I have an X-Fi as well as logitech Z-5500's. In my X-Fi drivers, should I set the dolby digital stuff to be decoded on the card, or on the speakers? Is one clearly better than the other? Seems to me like the card might do it better, but teh speakers know themselves better and would be able to make it sound better if decoded onboard...

Also, for my Z-5500's, whats the best mode? I have been using 6 Ch Direct figguring the sound card is putting the sound where it should be...is there a better mode for all around gaming, music and movies?
Click to expand...

My buddy says either way, gets the same result...both sounds great.

Terra...
 
HighwayAssassins said:
Thanks for the replys guys. After fooling around a little, this setup sounds ALOT better...

Another question: I have an X-Fi as well as logitech Z-5500's. In my X-Fi drivers, should I set the dolby digital stuff to be decoded on the card, or on the speakers? Is one clearly better than the other? Seems to me like the card might do it better, but teh speakers know themselves better and would be able to make it sound better if decoded onboard...

Also, for my Z-5500's, whats the best mode? I have been using 6 Ch Direct figguring the sound card is putting the sound where it should be...is there a better mode for all around gaming, music and movies?
Click to expand...
Leave it on 6 Ch Direct and let your card do the encoding. The X-Fi is definately better sound quality than Logitech's when using an analog feed. When gaming use 6 Ch Direct as this is the only setting games output. When watching movies, use your X-Fi for Dolby and run it 6 Ch on your speakers. For testing, output a 2 channel source on your card and set your speakers to Dolby movie. Probably won't be able to tell a difference, but there is.

Shame Creative always bitches out and cripples their cards. No reason for me to upgrade to a X-Fi as my motherboard does more for me than a X-Fi :rolleyes:
 
Ok im running the z5500 with the xfi fatality and what i do is leave it to 6ch select on the logitechs. I also leave cmoss thingy on all the time and leave stereo xpand on also. Personally i like the entertainment mode so i leave that when i game (im too lazy to change it}

What i love about this soundcard compared to all the previous creative ones is the headphone cmoss thingy. This sounds so much better with headphones its unbelievable. I do most of my gaming and movie watching at night and when my parents come into town and visit and sleeping over i have to use headphones and this soundcard does it right.

Anyway everybody gave great advice here so hope this helps.
 
tgillespie said:
Shame Creative always bitches out and cripples their cards. No reason for me to upgrade to a X-Fi as my motherboard does more for me than a X-Fi :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

You are joking right?
If not, please elborate...

Terra...
 
noesis said:
Ok im running the z5500 with the xfi fatality and what i do is leave it to 6ch select on the logitechs. I also leave cmoss thingy on all the time and leave stereo xpand on also. Personally i like the entertainment mode so i leave that when i game (im too lazy to change it}
Click to expand...

I feel sorry for you if you play any EAX games...especially BF2...

Terra - The difference is there, so would did you get a card if not to utilize it?
 
Terra said:
You are joking right?
If not, please elborate...

Terra...
Click to expand...
Not joking. For me, spending $100 on a sound card that does not include a digital output is pointless. Creative does sound. You think after some 5 odd years of digital media they would have found a way to include a digital output on their PCI cards. Instead they make you run it out the front of your case like its practical.

My onboard sound does more for me than my Audigy did. I watch DVD's and listen to music ten fold over the amount of gaming I do. If you game, I can see why you would want an actual sound card. The increase in quality and system performance, but for watching movies and listening to music, there is really no point.
 
tgillespie said:
Not joking. For me, spending $100 on a sound card that does not include a digital output is pointless. Creative does sound. You think after some 5 odd years of digital media they would have found a way to include a digital output on their PCI cards. Instead they make you run it out the front of your case like its practical.
Click to expand...

Allow me to educate you:
digitalio9au.jpg


This is my "old" Audigy 2
You can read what is says?
My older Audigy also had this.
My X-Fi also have this.
Infact is has more than just the one in the back of the card:
box7em.jpg



My onboard sound does more for me than my Audigy did. I watch DVD's and listen to music ten fold over the amount of gaming I do. If you game, I can see why you would want an actual sound card. The increase in quality and system performance, but for watching movies and listening to music, there is really no point
Click to expand...

Your onboard sound is THX-certified?
Or does your onabord audio come close to this?:
Signal-to-Noise Ratio (20kHz Low-pass filter, A-Weighted)
Stereo Output: 116dB
Front and Rear Channels: 116dB
Center, Subwoofer and Side Channels: 116dB
Total Harmonic Distortion + Noise at 1kHz (20kHz Low-pass filter) = 0.0008%
Frequency Response (-3dB, 24-bit/96kHz input ) = <10Hz to 46kHz
Frequency Response (-3dB, 24-bit/192kHz input) = <10Hz to 88kHz (Stereo only)

Terra - And i wont even being to go into the CMSS3D, 24-bit Crystalizer ect...
 
tgillespie said:
My onboard sound does more for me than my Audigy did. I watch DVD's and listen to music ten fold over the amount of gaming I do. If you game, I can see why you would want an actual sound card. The increase in quality and system performance, but for watching movies and listening to music, there is really no point.
Click to expand...
good point...if you are not gaming, a dedicated card is not that important, although i can tell a difference between AC97 and any audigy class card...

If you intend to game, EAX is a must. No EAX is like gaming in 640x480.
 
HighwayAssassins said:
good point...if you are not gaming, a dedicated card is not that important, although i can tell a difference between AC97 and any audigy class card...
Click to expand...

Same here.
I have onboard AC97 sound..but only used it 1 time.
Then I put in my first Audigy.

If you intend to game, EAX is a must. No EAX is like gaming in 640x480.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I just today gamed Star Wars - Empire at War(EAX HD 4.0), QUAKE 4(EAX HD 5.0) and BF2(EAX HD 5.0)

Terra - I would hate to have been with out that EAX support...
 
I am playing Quake 4 right now with EAX 5 (had to get the game that creative recomends ;)) and JESUS. I love the sound change in different rooms. shooting in a hall sounds like shooting in a hall. shooting in a big hollow room sounds like shooting in a big hollow room...crazy.
 
HighwayAssassins said:
I am playing Quake 4 right now with EAX 5 (had to get the game that creative recomends ;)) and JESUS. I love the sound change in different rooms. shooting in a hall sounds like shooting in a hall. shooting in a big hollow room sounds like shooting in a big hollow room...crazy.
Click to expand...

Yup...hell I even dogded and turned my head the fist couple of days, when people shot at me in games...

Terracide - Stupid army habbit won't die :D *L*
 
Terra said:
Yup...hell I even dogded and turned my head the fist couple of days, when people shot at me in games...

Terracide - Stupid army habbit won't die :D *L*
Click to expand...
I have yet to hear this famous X-Fi "bullet wizzing by the head" phenominon i hear so much about...
 
Terra said:
Allow me to educate you:
digitalio9au.jpg


This is my "old" Audigy 2
You can read what is says?
My older Audigy also had this.
My X-Fi also have this.
Infact is has more than just the one in the back of the card:
box7em.jpg





Your onboard sound is THX-certified?
Or does your onabord audio come close to this?:
Signal-to-Noise Ratio (20kHz Low-pass filter, A-Weighted)
Stereo Output: 116dB
Front and Rear Channels: 116dB
Center, Subwoofer and Side Channels: 116dB
Total Harmonic Distortion + Noise at 1kHz (20kHz Low-pass filter) = 0.0008%
Frequency Response (-3dB, 24-bit/96kHz input ) = <10Hz to 46kHz
Frequency Response (-3dB, 24-bit/192kHz input) = <10Hz to 88kHz (Stereo only)

Terra - And i wont even being to go into the CMSS3D, 24-bit Crystalizer ect...
Click to expand...
:rolleyes:

1: This thread is about the X-Fi, not the $350 sound card you are refering to. The stats you posted were for the Elite Pro which features a whole different chip than the X-Fi. Not the same cards.

2: I too had an Audigy 2 with a digital output. Take a look at that connection.... does it look like anything thats supported by anything BUT Creative speakers? What a great use that is when you don't own creative speakers :rolleyes:

3: My onboard audio is not THX certified, but then again, I don't need it to be when I'm exporting a digital signal. Digital audio is digital audio. My THX qualified speakers are playing the highest quality audio possible when watching a DVD. There is a difference between onboard AC97 analog audio and Creative analog audion.... but there isnt a difference between your digital audio coming from your card and my onboard audio.

4: I prefer not to have my music mixed with equalizers etc.

5: I bet that external I/O panel sure is handy. What a great place for it. I prefer not to have a spider web of wires coming from the front of my PC case. Lots of logic there Creative. Put a functional optical output on your card and I might consider buying. Until then, I'll stick with something a little more practical for my use.

Before someone else chimes in, remember that I'm not a gamer and have no real use for EAX or Creative's audio processing.


Oh... and thanks for educating me and teaching me how to read. I appreicate it chief ;)
 
tgillespie said:
1: This thread is about the X-Fi, not the $350 sound card you are refering to. The stats you posted were for the Elite Pro which features a whole different chip than the X-Fi. Not the same cards.
Click to expand...

The Audigy 2 is an "Value" $69.95.

2: I too had an Audigy 2 with a digital output. Take a look at that connection.... does it look like anything thats supported by anything BUT Creative speakers? What a great use that is when you don't own creative speakers
Click to expand...

Come on....
$6.99
http://us.creative.com/products/product.asp?category=1&subcategory=16&product=253

prod253_hdr_1_1_61.jpg



3: My onboard audio is not THX certified, but then again, I don't need it to be when I'm exporting a digital signal. Digital audio is digital audio. My THX qualified speakers are playing the highest quality audio possible when watching a DVD. There is a difference between onboard AC97 analog audio and Creative analog audion.... but there isnt a difference between your digital audio coming from your card and my onboard audio.
Click to expand...

Again, 24-bit Crystalizer...
3rd point "debunked"...
I see a pattern here...

4: I prefer not to have my music mixed with equalizers etc.
Click to expand...

So do I?
eq3jv.jpg


4th "point" mute...

5: I bet that external I/O panel sure is handy. What a great place for it. I prefer not to have a spider web of wires coming from the front of my PC case. Lots of logic there Creative. Put a functional optical output on your card and I might consider buying. Until then, I'll stick with something a little more practical for my use.
Click to expand...

It's not from the "front" of my PC, again your statements have little to do with the real world :rolleyes:
I have digital In/Out fra the back of my CARD....and from the back of this:
XFiPro_pdt_lo.jpg


5th point not true...nice work man...5 points, all wrong :D

Before someone else chimes in, remember that I'm not a gamer and have no real use for EAX or Creative's audio processing.
Click to expand...

That wasn't what you said earlier!
You stated there where NO difference in the AUDIO from an creative card compared to your onboard sound.
But I guess you need to change your "stance" now, as your original has been blasted out of the water...


Oh... and thanks for educating me and teaching me how to read. I appreicate it chief ;)
Click to expand...

Didn't help apperently. :rolleyes:
5 wrong points, and a re-wording of your stance...I'd call that an "F"

Terra...
 
Topkat said:
Some of you sound like Creative employees ;-)
Click to expand...

Well, then let me go on the record and say I have no affliations with Creative.

Terra - Other than I own some of their products ;)
 
Terra said:
Well, then let me go on the record and say I have no affliations with Creative.

Terra - Other than I own some of their products ;)
Click to expand...
Would you like to work for them?
Seriously though, whoever claims no sound difference between onboard ANALOG and the Creative cards -is either deaf or hearing impaired...
 
altcon said:
Would you like to work for them?
Click to expand...

Not really.
My main interests dosn't evolve around PC audio.
But I do like their products ever since my ISA Soundblaster 32 AWE back on my P166...
Damn card was FEAKING long and had 2 RAM slots for storing soundfonts.
And in those days "Sounblaster 16" sound was the standard to aim for in games.

Seriously though, whoever claims no sound difference between onboard ANALOG and the Creative cards -is either deaf or hearing impaired...
Click to expand...

QTF!
Or need better speakers ;) *L*

Terra....
 
Terra said:
Or need better speakers ;) *L*
Click to expand...
Had'nt considered that, although I do hope people paying over $100 for a soundcard are not using generic $5 stereo speakers....
 
altcon said:
Had'nt considered that, although I do hope people paying over $100 for a soundcard are not using generic $5 stereo speakers....
Click to expand...

You never know...
I have seen some peeps do strange things regarding hardware...

Terra - But I agree with you :)
 
Uh, the flexijack on the back of an x-fi board can be configured as digital out. Your first statement was that x-fi didn't have it at all, then you complained that it is only available on the front panel. I suppose your next complaint will be that you want fiber, not mini-plug to digital coax. At that point you'll be advocating fiber instead of coax and can then be comfortably ignored. :)

As far as cmss 3d goes, I only use it for headphones, and even then only in a game where it helps with audible positioning cues.
 
eastvillager said:
Uh, the flexijack on the back of an x-fi board can be configured as digital out. Your first statement was that x-fi didn't have it at all, then you complained that it is only available on the front panel. I suppose your next complaint will be that you want fiber, not mini-plug to digital coax. At that point you'll be advocating fiber instead of coax and can then be comfortably ignored. :)
Click to expand...

Actuallu he stated that NONE of creative's PCI cards had digital out ;)
Post #14:
Not joking. For me, spending $100 on a sound card that does not include a digital output is pointless. Creative does sound. You think after some 5 odd years of digital media they would have found a way to include a digital output on their PCI cards
Click to expand...


As far as cmss 3d goes, I only use it for headphones, and even then only in a game where it helps with audible positioning cues.[/QUOTE]

I use CMSS3D in my 7.1 speaker setup, to move the sound futher "behind" when watching movies from my bed.
My 7.1 setup is setup for gaming in front of the PC, but the CMSS3D sorround upmix give me the optionto move the sound "image" so it "fits" when I lie in my bed ;)

Headphones I know nothing about...what so ever...tried it once...they made my ears sweat, I felt "restrained" and I missed the pucnh of my subwoofer.

Terra...
 
Jason711 said:
your wrong.
http://www.thx.com/mod/products/chosngProduct.html

and thx multimedia isnt anything to brag about.
Click to expand...
yea, but those are all just standards. A card or speaker can be THX Certified, but that does not mean there is a THX chip or decoder.

wikipedia said:
The THX system is not a recording technology, and it does not specify a sound recording format; all digital (Dolby Digital, SDDS) and all analog sound formats (Dolby SR, Ultra-Stereo) can be "shown in THX." THX is mainly a quality assurance system. If a producer has their film mixed in THX, it merely means that when the film is shown in theaters, the soundtrack will sound exactly as it did when it was mixed, provided that the theaters in question are THX-certified theaters. THX also provides certified theaters with special equipment (a special crossover) required for compliance with the standard. Theaters become certified by meeting certain acoustic and technical requirements. Some of the room requirements include a floating floor, baffled and acoustically treated walls, no parallel walls (to reduce standing waves), a perforated screen (to allow center channel continuity), and NC30 noise rated components.
Click to expand...
 
ppl throw around the term THX a little to loosely. a thx multimedia setup obviously isnt going to be nearly as good as the other THX standards.
 
Jason711 said:
ppl throw around the term THX a little to loosely. a thx multimedia setup obviously isnt going to be nearly as good as the other THX standards.
Click to expand...

Did anyone claim that?

Terra...
 
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