9L Mass Production Case Idea/Discussion

[Canyouseeitnow]

This is a discussion for creating a mass production case at around 9L. The idea is that with HBM right around the corner, it is likely we will see the prevalence of very powerful mini-itx GPU in the future. However, at this moment, there are no cases that actually take advantage of this.

The M1 and DAN A4-SFX is designed for longer graphics card and are both very complex solutions. While they are great cases, they command very high prices.

The 9L mass production case idea is designed around minimizing complexity for an easy mass production case and taking advantage of HBM mini-itx cards that will be released next year.

Features of this simple layout:
- High compatibility with CPU coolers. By moving the PSU to the side, you allow the ability to use small tower coolers for front to back cooling.
- Fresh air intake for GPU and direct exhaust vents means a very cool GPU and a quiet build.
- Easy to build in. Pockets of space for tucking power supply cables.
- Simple structure means a low cost case.
- Compatible with 2 Slot GPU up to 190mm.
- Up to 2 SSD, 1 3.5HDD
- Front: 140mm fan, or 120mm radiator
- Side: 140mm/120mm fan, or 120mm radiator (slim profile only)
- Recommended SFX PSU. Compatible with SFX-L PSU but raises difficulty in cable management.

*notes:
-Dimensions based on standard sizes.
-Cable management would have tie-down spots above the front intake fan.

Using a top-down layout, we lose the tower cpu compatibility, but we do gain more space in the front for cable tucking.

The closest design I have seen to this design are Lian-Li's PC-Q04 or jonsbo cases, all of which have abysmal cooling design. I hope this acts as a good starting point for smaller cases next year.

 

[iFreilicht]

So, this is an interesting idea, certainly, it does have advantages over existing designs, but it raises quite a few questions:

Is this designed specifically for the R9 Nano? Or ITX cards in general? (you were talking about HBM cards)
Why make it so long? The HDDs could be moved to the top easily, giving you additional 2cm to either shorten the case or have cable management space that's a bit more hidden.
Why have the PSU at the bottom and cables on top, not the other way around?
Should tower coolers intake from the front or the top of the case?
Is this orientation really a good idea? Wouldn't it be better to turn the case with the GPU upwards, minimising the footprint?

I think in any case, you don't need a front fan. It might look cool, but if you have a tower cooler in there then that's going to create quite enough airflow and if you use a top-blower, a fan on the top panel could probably be a better idea.

 

[esplin2966]

I like this idea. I believe there is actually space for a 3.5" HDD beside the PSU if you're using SFX and not SFX-L. See the image below:

It will be very tight, but if you orient the PSU fan to face out, which any sensible person will, the space between the PSU connectors and the wall should a little more than 25mm. If it's a few mm short, then you can make the case a few mm bigger in that dimension, no big deal.

 

[iFreilicht]

Why not put the 3.5" HDD into the space where the fan is in that design? I don't think limiting people to SFX intsead of SFX-L is a good idea.

 

[esplin2966]

Why not put the 3.5" HDD into the space where the fan is in that design? I don't think limiting people to SFX intsead of SFX-L is a good idea.

I was thinking that having the 3.5" HDDs there would block the intake airflow. Maybe it could be optional to have it there if you're using a 140mm AIO cooler or something.

 

[Canyouseeitnow]

To further the discussion:

Is this designed specifically for the R9 Nano? Or ITX cards in general? (you were talking about HBM cards)

Yes. Currently, only the two tier of cards from AMD are HBM. The lower brackets, there are possible mini-itx versions of the same cards (R9 380, GTX 950/960/970). However, seeing that HBM will become standard next year, I expect HBM to enter the mid tier cards market, think AMD 480/480X and Nvidia GTX 1070 (?) level. This means that mini-itx cards will likely consist of 50% of the cards, with water cooled or full sized cards in the AMD 490/490X and GTX 1080. Seeing as it takes 1 year for case design to mature, I think it is important for us to consider the future market and be prepared for it. I personally would like to see a case that fully take advantage of HBM mini-itx cards next year


Why make it so long? The HDDs could be moved to the top easily, giving you additional 2cm to either shorten the case or have cable management space that's a bit more hidden.
Why have the PSU at the bottom and cables on top, not the other way around?

I'm not sure I made the design clear, but in this chassis, the SFX PSU is intaking air from the outside, with cables pointing away from the rear I/O ports. So maybe clarity in the 3d mock up is the issue. However, the space there in front of the PSU, where wires will come out, is on purpose to tuck cables. This case CAN accommodate SFX-L, seeing as the length of the case is 200mm, and SFX-L is deeper to 130mm. You just lose a bit of space for cable management and that call is up to you.

Should tower coolers intake from the front or the top of the case?
Is this orientation really a good idea? Wouldn't it be better to turn the case with the GPU upwards, minimising the footprint?

This case is can is orientation agnostic, that is, by placing 10mm feet at any place, the case can be orientated to how one sees fit

I think in any case, you don't need a front fan. It might look cool, but if you have a tower cooler in there then that's going to create quite enough airflow and if you use a top-blower, a fan on the top panel could probably be a better idea.

The tower cooler will not create enough pressure near the front to take in air. It is also better to have a large but slow spinning fan in the front to provide positive pressure to help fight dust

 

[Curiositie]

So essentially this, in a box, plus some hard drives, yeah?

 

[Canyouseeitnow]

So essentially this, in a box, plus some hard drives, yeah?

YESSIR!

 

[Canyouseeitnow]

I like this idea. I believe there is actually space for a 3.5" HDD beside the PSU if you're using SFX and not SFX-L. See the image below:

It will be very tight, but if you orient the PSU fan to face out, which any sensible person will, the space between the PSU connectors and the wall should a little more than 25mm. If it's a few mm short, then you can make the case a few mm bigger in that dimension, no big deal.

3.5HDD are actually a lot bigger than you think compared to everything else. In one year, 500GB SSD should hit the $100 mark, and considering their reliability and speed, only the biggest of media consumers will consider using HDD. However, I did attempt to fit in a 3.5" in that space but it didnt work. If you switch the location of the SSDs, and change to a 120mm front intake, then the possibility opens up, but it ends up being a very cramp build which makes me think it is not worth it. HDD also ends up requiring strong supports and brackets as well, which SSD are so light weight one can easily stack them. In my build, I had them fairly spaced out as placeholder for any kind of bracket design.

 

[esplin2966]

3.5HDD are actually a lot bigger than you think compared to everything else. In one year, 500GB SSD should hit the $100 mark, and considering their reliability and speed, only the biggest of media consumers will consider using HDD. However, I did attempt to fit in a 3.5" in that space but it didnt work. If you switch the location of the SSDs, and change to a 120mm front intake, then the possibility opens up, but it ends up being a very cramp build which makes me think it is not worth it. HDD also ends up requiring strong supports and brackets as well, which SSD are so light weight one can easily stack them. In my build, I had them fairly spaced out as placeholder for any kind of bracket design.

I'm not sure what you meant when you said fitting the 3.5" hard drive didn't work. Can you elaborate? I've done the calculations and it should physically fit in there. However, if you just don't like how cramped it is, then never mind.

 

[SaperPL]

I agree with the problem of supporting only ITX cards by design but with those dimensions there's always going to be something you could have added there.

For the cost reasons I would go for the psu fan sucking air from inside so there's less inlets and filters required.

I also think that at this point in time where a lot of people think of water cooling you could increase the size to 10L of volume and figure out how to fit a 240mm or 280mm rad at the front of case.

Other than that - what's your idea to jump start it here? Are You going to start manufacturing it yourself?

Also while almost everything looks doable cheap there's problem with mounting the drives and side panels coming together with front. You've got to grab a cad with sheet metal support and figure those out first.

 

[iFreilicht]

To further the discussion:
Yes. Currently, only the two tier of cards from AMD are HBM. The lower brackets, there are possible mini-itx versions of the same cards (R9 380, GTX 950/960/970). However, seeing that HBM will become standard next year, I expect HBM to enter the mid tier cards market, think AMD 480/480X and Nvidia GTX 1070 (?) level. This means that mini-itx cards will likely consist of 50% of the cards, with water cooled or full sized cards in the AMD 490/490X and GTX 1080. Seeing as it takes 1 year for case design to mature, I think it is important for us to consider the future market and be prepared for it. I personally would like to see a case that fully take advantage of HBM mini-itx cards next year

Very well, I just though if you were going for the nano, you could make the case a bit slimmer because it has its PEG connectors on the front.

I'm not sure I made the design clear, but in this chassis, the SFX PSU is intaking air from the outside, with cables pointing away from the rear I/O ports. So maybe clarity in the 3d mock up is the issue. However, the space there in front of the PSU, where wires will come out, is on purpose to tuck cables. This case CAN accommodate SFX-L, seeing as the length of the case is 200mm, and SFX-L is deeper to 130mm. You just lose a bit of space for cable management and that call is up to you.

Yes you did, I perfectly understood where the components are and where they're pointing. I wasn't talking about space at the front, but above the PSU. When you want to tuck in cables, it makes more sense to tuck them in below the PSU because there you can't see them. This will also make cable management easier for SFX-L.

It's true that it doesn't really limit the user to SFX, you just need a good way of installing SFX-L PSUs (maybe a removable front panel?)

This case is can is orientation agnostic, that is, by placing 10mm feet at any place, the case can be orientated to how one sees fit

Very nice.

The tower cooler will not create enough pressure near the front to take in air. It is also better to have a large but slow spinning fan in the front to provide positive pressure to help fight dust

That's precisely why I asked. I think you could have vents in the top panel and let the tower cooler intake from there. You'd still have positive pressure behind the tower, maybe you could even use a duct to make sure that no air is recycled. That would leave you with a cleaner front and it would allow you to always put drives at the front, so you don't have to choose between good cooling and lots of storage.
The space where the fan is right now would be perfect for the 3.5" HDD as well.

I agree with the problem of supporting only ITX cards by design but with those dimensions there's always going to be something you could have added there.

For the cost reasons I would go for the psu fan sucking air from inside so there's less inlets and filters required.

I also think that at this point in time where a lot of people think of water cooling you could increase the size to 10L of volume and figure out how to fit a 240mm or 280mm rad at the front of case.

Other than that - what's your idea to jump start it here? Are You going to start manufacturing it yourself?

Also while almost everything looks doable cheap there's problem with mounting the drives and side panels coming together with front. You've got to grab a cad with sheet metal support and figure those out first.

I don't think there's even the idea to manufacture it as of now, we're only talking about a general idea at the moment.

 

[dondan]

How many cases do you plan to pruduce?

 

[Canyouseeitnow]

In response.

I agree with the problem of supporting only ITX cards by design but with those dimensions there's always going to be something you could have added there.

The reason for this is I would like to at minimum support a standard mini-itx graphics card for transition buyers, and for non HBM cards. I feel like the GTX 970 mini-itx is a good max size to support.

For the cost reasons I would go for the psu fan sucking air from inside so there's less inlets and filters required.

I also think that at this point in time where a lot of people think of water cooling you could increase the size to 10L of volume and figure out how to fit a 240mm or 280mm rad at the front of case.

I attempted that idea. At most, a 240mm radiator can be fit if we increase the overall size to around ~11.5L+. This is due to the fact that one must account for clearances for hoses and the radiator itself. I don't think I will go down that route.

Other than that - what's your idea to jump start it here? Are You going to start manufacturing it yourself?

No idea. Possibly to gather feedback and help further design with community. Possibly to make it myself at some point once I gain enough skill with real CAD software.

Also while almost everything looks doable cheap there's problem with mounting the drives and side panels coming together with front. You've got to grab a cad with sheet metal support and figure those out first.
I don't think mounting would be much of an issue. The cost is associated with user friendly engineered options. One could just add a rail and mounting holes.

 

[Canyouseeitnow]

In response

Very well, I just though if you were going for the nano, you could make the case a bit slimmer because it has its PEG connectors on the front.

This true. If we were to design a pure AMD Nano solution, we can go with a very narrow case. However, I feel there should at least be some accommodation for regular mini itx cards.

Yes you did, I perfectly understood where the components are and where they're pointing. I wasn't talking about space at the front, but above the PSU. When you want to tuck in cables, it makes more sense to tuck them in below the PSU because there you can't see them. This will also make cable management easier for SFX-L.

It's true that it doesn't really limit the user to SFX, you just need a good way of installing SFX-L PSUs (maybe a removable front panel?)
Solution would be a very simple top mounted PSU if you reference the updated layout. Should be easy to slide in, and there will support brackets that holds it up.


That's precisely why I asked. I think you could have vents in the top panel and let the tower cooler intake from there. You'd still have positive pressure behind the tower, maybe you could even use a duct to make sure that no air is recycled. That would leave you with a cleaner front and it would allow you to always put drives at the front, so you don't have to choose between good cooling and lots of storage.
The space where the fan is right now would be perfect for the 3.5" HDD as well.

We can use a solution similar to NCASE M1 with the intake over the CPU. The user would lose a little bit of cooling in exchange for more storage. I think we can work this in without compromise.

I don't think there's even the idea to manufacture it as of now, we're only talking about a general idea at the moment.
Yes. But I think the idea is still very important. I know there are a few community managers that browse these forums for feedback/ideas. Heck, no one thought of making a case like the NCASE M1 until it was made. I still marvel at the engineering thanks to community feedback behind it.