9800GTX+ or HD4850

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v1nayr4j

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im sure this has been dealt with too many times before, but still for my satisfaction i would like to get your guys opinion here:
9800gtx+ and hd4850 are neck to neck in performance, but hd4850 goes ahead when AA is turned on.
HD4850 has direct10.1 and 9800gtx+ has PhysX support.
Ive heard that the performance of the game goes down drastically when physx support is turned on, is this true?
Keeping this in mind which graphics card will be best for me while playing games at 1440x900?
Right now, im slightly more inclined towards the hd4850.
Also, if both are overclocked which will be the better performer, consider im buying the msi r4850 which has hybrid freezer so temps wont be a problem for hd4850.
also are prices going to come down in the near future?
if hd 4870 can touch 250 this year i would go for that one.
 
Performance goes down because more has to be rendered, and on top of that, more physics computations have to be processed. From all of the benchmarks I have seen, this isn't enough to make a game unplayable because the GPU can't render the 3d and the physx. But I haven't gotten the chance to test it out myself.

You are probably going to hear fanboys of all levels tell you to buy a 4850, just going to say its cheaper, or say it has DX10.1 or say its going to overclock better (don't know about this one). And they could all be right.

I simply went with past experience. Last time I was in the market for a 200 dollar card, the rolls were revered, ATi had the expensive card that was faster stock v stock (x1950pro) and NV had the cheaper solution (7900GS) and I listened to everybody and got an x1950pro, lets just say I was disapointed.
 
thanx for the reply....
well i live in india and ill probably be the first one here to see the daylight of 9800gtx+ or hd4850, lol, so m gonna upgrade it again only after about 2 years.
So, in terms of future-proofing, hd 4850 seems a better buy because if as such the performance with physics is so less, the changes would be drastic in the games to come.
and yes, it is more or less unanimous here that hd4850 is the thing to buy.
 
Simpson5774 said:
You are probably going to hear fanboys of all levels tell you to buy a 4850, just going to say its cheaper, or say it has DX10.1 or say its going to overclock better (don't know about this one). And they could all be right.
Click to expand...
It's not hard to conclude that 4850 overclocks better if you just take a glance at all those voltmodding discussions and people with 800+ MHz on the core.
 
v1nayr4j said:
thanx for the reply....
well i live in india and ill probably be the first one here to see the daylight of 9800gtx+ or hd4850, lol, so m gonna upgrade it again only after about 2 years.
So, in terms of future-proofing, hd 4850 seems a better buy because if as such the performance with physics is so less, the changes would be drastic in the games to come.
and yes, it is more or less unanimous here that hd4850 is the thing to buy.
Click to expand...

They are both the same especially at that resolution. Get the cheaper one. Unless you want to play with Physx.
 
What if we are going to be at 1920x1200 res?
Would you prefer one card over the other, why?
 
lol_wut said:
It's not hard to conclude that 4850 overclocks better if you just take a glance at all those voltmodding discussions and people with 800+ MHz on the core.
Click to expand...

I don't do volt modding (the physical kind, atleast not yet) but it would seem to me, without voltmodding the 9800GTX(+) is capable of more (although less percentage wise since the + model is already overclocked and that would account for its small lead in benchmarks with the 4850 at less than 1980x1200. A large percentage of 9800GTX's 65nm and 55nm hit around 800/2000/2400, this review compares a stock 4850 v a stock 98800GTX+, and the 9800GTX+ overclocks better.

But then again the heatsink on a 4850 is junk if you get a stock clocked one.
 
thanx every1....but im still not clear.....is the fps drop woth physx enabled drastic or is the game still playable?
 
Crysis is the only game doesn't play well at 1920x1200 on most single GPU cards unless you crank down the eye candy. But for most everything else, both cards handle 1920x1200 just fine. It's when you go above that is when these cards take a severe hit.
 
Simpson5774 said:
I don't do volt modding (the physical kind, atleast not yet) but it would seem to me, without voltmodding the 9800GTX(+) is capable of more (although less percentage wise since the + model is already overclocked and that would account for its small lead in benchmarks with the 4850 at less than 1980x1200. A large percentage of 9800GTX's 65nm and 55nm hit around 800/2000/2400, this review compares a stock 4850 v a stock 98800GTX+, and the 9800GTX+ overclocks better.

But then again the heatsink on a 4850 is junk if you get a stock clocked one.
Click to expand...
4850 from 625 MHz to 700 MHz (possible without any modding) is a bigger jump than 9800GTX+ from 738 MHz to 800 MHz, both percentage-wise and absolute value-wise. Legit Reviews may have just gotten a very lucky one to reach 855 MHz, and who knows if it's really stable or not despite what they claim.

The thing is, the 4850 is so easy to voltmod that you might as well do it if you want to overclock it. All you need is a pencil and a multimeter, and it'll guarantee you at least 750 MHz. In non-framebuffer intensive applications, that's just about as fast as a stock 4870.
 
lol_wut said:
4850 from 625 MHz to 700 MHz (possible without any modding) is a bigger jump than 9800GTX+ from 738 MHz to 800 MHz, both percentage-wise and absolute value-wise. Legit Reviews may have just gotten a very lucky one to reach 855 MHz, and who knows if it's really stable or not despite what they claim.

The thing is, the 4850 is so easy to voltmod that you might as well do it if you want to overclock it. All you need is a pencil and a multimeter, and it'll guarantee you at least 750 MHz. In non-framebuffer intensive applications, that's just about as fast as a stock 4870.
Click to expand...

Performing a first time volt mod on card like that is rather risky. Risking permament damage/ destruction to the card is not really worth another 10% boost in fps especially when its your first time vmodding.

Simpson5774 said:
I don't do volt modding (the physical kind, atleast not yet) but it would seem to me, without voltmodding the 9800GTX(+) is capable of more (although less percentage wise since the + model is already overclocked and that would account for its small lead in benchmarks with the 4850 at less than 1980x1200. A large percentage of 9800GTX's 65nm and 55nm hit around 800/2000/2400, this review compares a stock 4850 v a stock 98800GTX+, and the 9800GTX+ overclocks better.

But then again the heatsink on a 4850 is junk if you get a stock clocked one.
Click to expand...

A reference hd 4850 can hit 700/1050 easily. Some non reference designs are starting to come in with higher binned memory and cores guaranting even higher overclocks. What none of you guys remember to mention is that a 48xx unlike the nvidia cards have the option of bios flashing for high vcore and fan hacks. Some progress is already being made in xs but they are not there yet. Also without taking ARs into the account 9800gtx+ is usually $20-$30 more expensive anyways.
 
I love being able to overclock my 4850 extensively. I'm at 730/1100 now with Ati Tray Tools. I will be pencil modding soon, shooting for 800 core.
 
DeadSkull said:
Performing a first time volt mod on card like that is rather risky. Risking permament damage/ destruction to the card is not really worth another 10% boost in fps especially when its your first time vmodding.
Click to expand...
The pencil mod is not permanent. If it dies, just wipe the pencil lead off and RMA it. The chances of killing your card with the pencil mod is virtually zero unless you stab the pencil through the PCB or something...

SilverSliver said:
I love being able to overclock my 4850 extensively. I'm at 730/1100 now with Ati Tray Tools. I will be pencil modding soon, shooting for 800 core.
Click to expand...
I highly doubt your card is stable at 730 MHz. I don't know what you use to test stability, but loop the Crysis benchmark 15-20 times and see if you're stable.
 
lol_wut said:
I highly doubt your card is stable at 730 MHz. I don't know what you use to test stability, but loop the Crysis benchmark 15-20 times and see if you're stable.
Click to expand...

730 core at 1.158v. TF2 for hours, CoH for hours, Furmark for an hour, ATI Tool for an hour. Temps never above 49C. No artifacts. No gray screens. Rock solid.

Heck, if there was a Linpack equivalent for my GPU I'd use that.
 
TF2 is not a good stability test as it's very CPU-heavy.
CoH is an unknown to me.
Furmark and Atitool are not viable stability tests for the GPU core. They're good for memory artifacting.

Looping the Crysis benchmark is the one and only stability test I use, and it proves to be much more reliable than everything else I've tried in the past. My original overclock of 700 MHz was stable in everything except Crysis. 3DMark06, Vantage and TF2 were all rock stable. Ran the Crysis benchmark and the system blackscreened on the second loop. Crysis is foolproof.
 
v1nayr4j said:
thanx every1....but im still not clear.....is the fps drop woth physx enabled drastic or is the game still playable?
Click to expand...


My only game experience with PhysX was the UT3 Map Pack, and those maps are still very playable at 1680x1050 with settings cranked.
 
Not really interested in buying Crysis, which I have no intention in playing, to use a benchmark that has no effect on me.

I'm positive there are plenty of folks on here with an overclocked CPU that if they did 20 loops with Linpack -- they would fail -- thermally and/or stability wise -- and are stable with Prime/Orthos/OCCT.

If I get a game, and I grayscreen or the driver recovers, I'll lower my core a bit. At this point, for the games/benchmarks I'm playing/using -- it's stable.
 
HD4870 is nice at that price. Just keep in mind there are no pencil mods for it if that is something you are interested in. Better have a soldering iron. :D
 
oh yeah.....i also run an old pentium D with 2.66Ghz no OC.....
will it be a problem using it with the hd4850?
 
v1nayr4j said:
no rebate for me.........i live in india!
i end up paying 20-30$ premium :D (the rebate)

are the prices going to drop in the coming months?
Click to expand...

Shadowhaxor said:
Yep. The 4870 is a pretty cheap at the moment;

$254.99 http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3947461&CatId=3670

*edit* Just saw you can't get the rebate, that stinks :(
Click to expand...

yeah......it is quite cheap now, i hadnt noticed earlier........
is the price difference worth the hd4870??

and still no answer:
''are there any chances of price drops in the coming couple of months?''
 
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