8th Grader's First Build

Sorry I've caught the flu, and I havn't had much time to check up on the topic. The max I am going to spend is $2500, thats with shipping and tax too.

Edit: On PSU
Also I'm defiantly sure that I am NOT getting the Ultra X2 PSU. Because I guess I really don't want to gamble my hardware. I guess I'm going to get a Sea Sonic, or a PCP&C for sure, I wish they made modular PSUs, but I'm going to bite the bullet and get a non-modular. I'm going to keep browsing at the different brands and models and see what I like. Thanks for talking me out of getting an Ultra X2.

Edit #2: On PSU
I looked at reviews for the Sea Sonic S12-500 and the PC Power & Cooling 510 SLI, and I think I liked the PC Power & Cooling 510 SLI better. I liked the cable mangement better than the Sea Sonic. Also from what I heard, PCP&C is the best PSU manufacturer, and their PSU's are reliable. I guess I'll fork out the extra dough for it.
 
d0m said:
Sorry I've caught the flu, and I havn't had much time to check up on the topic. The max I am going to spend is $2500, thats with shipping and tax too.

Edit: On PSU
Also I'm defiantly sure that I am NOT getting the Ultra X2 PSU. Because I guess I really don't want to gamble my hardware. I guess I'm going to get a Sea Sonic, or a PCP&C for sure, I wish they made modular PSUs, but I'm going to bite the bullet and get a non-modular. I'm going to keep browsing at the different brands and models and see what I like. Thanks for talking me out of getting an Ultra X2.

Edit #2: On PSU
I looked at reviews for the Sea Sonic S12-500 and the PC Power & Cooling 510 SLI, and I think I liked the PC Power & Cooling 510 SLI better. I liked the cable mangement better than the Sea Sonic. Also from what I heard, PCP&C is the best PSU manufacturer, and their PSU's are reliable. I guess I'll fork out the extra dough for it.
Click to expand...
Day-um! That's a budget I wish I had!

FYI, check www.jonnyguru.com . He's a regular 'round these parts and has done extensive testing of power supplies. No, not just "Yay! It turns on and has pretty lights!". He runs these things with varying loads with several testing devices and an oscilloscope, so that way you know what sort of voltages and actual power you'll get from PSUs.
 
Now, I'm confused on buying a video card. I will start buying the parts around end of March, early April. I just read this article from the inquirer (http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=29931), but its the the inquirer so I don't believe it, but I want to believe it. They are not the always "truthiness" news source.

Here's my options.
1. Get the 7900 GT. $300 (hopefully)
2. Get the 7800 GTX. $??? (price drop?)
3. Get the 7800 GT. $??? (price drop?)

What is your thoughts on my situation? Should I wait till the 7900 GT/GTX come out and see what happens?
 
d0m said:
Now, I'm confused on buying a video card. I will start buying the parts around end of March, early April. I just read this article from the inquirer (http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=29931), but its the the inquirer so I don't believe it, but I want to believe it. They are not the always "truthiness" news source.

Here's my options.
1. Get the 7900 GT. $300 (hopefully)
2. Get the 7800 GTX. $??? (price drop?)
3. Get the 7800 GT. $??? (price drop?)

What is your thoughts on my situation? Should I wait till the 7900 GT/GTX come out and see what happens?
Click to expand...

I think you are cofnused with the national inquirer, a stupid "newspaper" type thing that bashes on celebreties...

And why not the ati 1900xtx????
 
elite.mafia said:
I think you are cofnused with the national enquirer, a stupid "newspaper" type thing that bashes on celebreties...

And why not the ati 1900xtx????
Click to expand...
the inq is known to not be very realistic either.

I also built my first build in 8th grade, Athlon XP 1800+, Ti4400.

Recommendations:
Just one thing for you to think about, are you sure you really want to spend 2500 dollars of your own money on a computer? Obviously i'm not hear to tell you what to do, just if it was me i'd rather save a grand and just spend 1500 on a system. If you have any questions just IM me, i'm willing to help.

Personally, i would get the cheapest ram you can find, ask about the AMD forum. AMD CPU's can run the RAM at different speeds than the CPU, so for instance you could run the CPU at 300mhz and the ram at 200mhz, and it doesn't affect performance very much. That'll save you about 100 dollars.

Also, tho i'm sure you know this, there are ways to get windows for cheaper, might be worth it to you.

edit: i see the 2500 includes a good LCD monitor, so that makes it more reasonable.
 
Yeah, get a Silverstone case, they're really nice. I'm getting one myself.
Also, I suggest you get an Opteron, spectacular overclockers.

I did my first build last Christmas, I am also 14 years old.
 
All good stuffs. I was in grade 9 when I first started fiddling around with my computers & in grade 10 when I built my first.
It was a nice, of course now it's only fit for a linux server:
Celery 466 (OC'd it - was a learning experience)
ABIT BX6 R2 (later BF6 - after I fried the bios flashing it)
128MB PC133 Ram (still have it)
GeForce 256 DDR (still have it - 3.3v AGP)
6.4GB Fujitsu (still have it - don't use it)
Deer 250W (EW!)
Generic Case (still have it - system still mostly in it)

Now 23 & enjoy my DC system :D

Fine choices I see in your system build. Don't let other people tell you what to do, but some of the advice is good (I see you've taken some of it :) Thumbs up (y))

I certainly enjoy my Dell 24" - a Side note - check out the problems with HDCP ... should you want to go with that monitor later - realize the fact that it may be useless should you get Vista. Plus if you want games to look crisp, you would be best to run them at native resolution of 1920x1200 (or the native resolution of whatever LCD monitor you buy).

Welcome to the community & the world of system builds!
 
If you want a different power supply thats modular, the Enermax Liberty PSU was nice. I got it for my system below. Its very quiet, has a ton of connectors, even comes with a nice pouch for the extra connectors you dont use.

That being said.. I also have one of those supposedly "bad" Ultra PSU's in my other machine. Its been working great for over 1.5 years now. I like it. Its a roll of the dice really. Ive had high end PSU's blow up my motherboard more than once.
 
d0m said:
Now, I'm confused on buying a video card. I will start buying the parts around end of March, early April. I just read this article from the inquirer (http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=29931), but its the the inquirer so I don't believe it, but I want to believe it. They are not the always "truthiness" news source.

Here's my options.
1. Get the 7900 GT. $300 (hopefully)
2. Get the 7800 GTX. $??? (price drop?)
3. Get the 7800 GT. $??? (price drop?)

What is your thoughts on my situation? Should I wait till the 7900 GT/GTX come out and see what happens?
Click to expand...

DirectX 10 cards are coming out at the end of the year, not a lot of point in paying out the ass for a dx9 card now.
 
Well shoot! With a $2500 budget, here's what I'd be getting based on some of your requirements:

CPU:
Opteron 165 retail $332

MOTHERBOARD:
DFI Infinity SLI $113

MEMORY:
G.Skill 2x1GB PC4000 (DDR500) Kit $197 (PC4000 will give about 18% more bandwidth in memory intensive apps over PC3200, and that's a HUGE gain).

GPU:
eVGA 7800GT CO SE $270 after $20 MIR

HDD:
WD 320GB SATA II $132

OPERATING SYSTEM:
Windows XP MCE $115

CASE:
ASUS Vento Black $160

PSU:
PC Power & Cooling 510-SLI $217

SOUND CARD:
I'd still just use the onboard, as they are leaps and bounds better than they were 2-3 years ago. If it's still not good enough, then throw in the X-Fi in the near future.

DVD BURNER:
NEC ND-3550A Retail $49

CD BURNER/COMBO:
Lite-On SOHC-5236V Retal $29

SPEAKERS:
Logitech X-530 $69 Because 5.1 > 2.1 with games and DVDs. If you go with only 2.1, I can dang near guarantee you'll be kicking yourself later once you hear the same games and movies in true 5.1 surround. And at this price, there's no reason not to go 5.1 surround.

MOUSE:
Logitech MX-518 $39

KEYBOARD:
Logitech G15 $77

LCD MONITOR:
Dell 2005FPW ~$450

MOUSE PAD:
Old fashioned cloth style $1

HEADSET:
Logitech Extreme Headset $18

STATIC STRAP
Figure about $10

TOTAL COST (approx.): $2,278

Roughly enough left over either an X-Fi, second HDD, or second GPU.
 
Slartibartfast said:
DirectX 10 cards are coming out at the end of the year, not a lot of point in paying out the ass for a dx9 card now.
Click to expand...
Why? It's going to be quite some time until DX10 games are the norm. Besides, a higher end DX9 gpu will fetch more money when it comes time to sell it and upgrade to a DX10 gpu. And first gen DX10 cards are probably going to be pretty costly, that is if the trend continues like in the past with every new-version DX compliant gpu release.

:D ;)
 
DejaWiz said:
KEYBOARD: Keyboard is a keyboard is a keyboard when it comes right down to it....
Click to expand...

sorry, but i'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you on this point. 10 years ago, i may have agreed, but after having gotten used to the MS Natural Elite keyboards, i will never, ever, ever, ever, ever go back to a standard straight keyboard.....we have them at work, and i have been forced (against my employer's wishes, i might add) to bring in my own MS N.E. to prevent my left hand (copy & paste kb shorcut is used a LOT during my job) from getting all tingly & sore, and sometimes going numb.

do yourself a favor, and get accustomed to an ergonomic keyboard now, and help prevent getting RSI (Repetetive Stress Injury).


d0m said:
Sorry I've caught the flu, and I havn't had much time to check up on the topic. The max I am going to spend is $2500, thats with shipping and tax too.

Edit: On PSU
Also I'm defiantly sure that I am NOT getting the Ultra X2 PSU. Because I guess I really don't want to gamble my hardware. I guess I'm going to get a Sea Sonic, or a PCP&C for sure, I wish they made modular PSUs, but I'm going to bite the bullet and get a non-modular. I'm going to keep browsing at the different brands and models and see what I like. Thanks for talking me out of getting an Ultra X2.

Edit #2: On PSU
I looked at reviews for the Sea Sonic S12-500 and the PC Power & Cooling 510 SLI, and I think I liked the PC Power & Cooling 510 SLI better. I liked the cable mangement better than the Sea Sonic. Also from what I heard, PCP&C is the best PSU manufacturer, and their PSU's are reliable. I guess I'll fork out the extra dough for it.
Click to expand...


if you want to get a modular PSU that's a little less expensive than that PCP&C, i'd look into the ENERMAX Liberty ELT620AWT 620W PSU instead....i've had 3 Enermax PSU's, and haven't had a single problem with any of them, they've been rock-stable, and one of them even lasted (and is actually still working) after i offset a floppy connector pin by one pin, and melted the end of the floppy power connecter (and obviously burned up the drive). plus, you get a little more max wattage out of the Enermax, if you ever intend to go SLI later on....
 
xXaNaXx said:
sorry, but i'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you on this point. 10 years ago, i may have agreed, but after having gotten used to the MS Natural Elite keyboards, i will never, ever, ever, ever, ever go back to a standard straight keyboard.....we have them at work, and i have been forced (against my employer's wishes, i might add) to bring in my own MS N.E. to prevent my left hand (copy & paste kb shorcut is used a LOT during my job) from getting all tingly & sore, and sometimes going numb.
do yourself a favor, and get accustomed to an ergonomic keyboard now, and help prevent getting RSI (Repetetive Stress Injury).
Click to expand...

The keyboard I want (posted in my wishlist) is the keyboard I want. My friend has the same one. Its comfortable, cheap, and looks pretty decent. I would really like a G15 but its kinda pricey and I read that the print off the keys start to come off in about a month or so.

Edit: I'm also a little confused on the RAM again. My motherboard supports DDR400. But what if I use DDR500 or something higher? Will that make it faster even though its not supported by my motherboard?
Edit #2: Well I just read the memory faq and it answered my question. :D
 
G15 is too expensive for you and the $200 power supply isn't? :p

I know it's a good power supply, but there are ones that cost half as much and would be more than enough for most systems.

btw I've been using my G15 keyboard for several hours every day for two months and the keys have not worn out at all. I usually play an FPS (CS:S) for at least an hour each day.
 
d0m said:
The keyboard I want (posted in my wishlist) is the keyboard I want. My friend has the same one. Its comfortable, cheap, and looks pretty decent. I would really like a G15 but its kinda pricey and I read that the print off the keys start to come off in about a month or so.

Edit: I'm also a little confused on the RAM again. My motherboard supports DDR400. But what if I use DDR500 or something higher? Will that make it faster even though its not supported by my motherboard?
Edit #2: Well I just read the memory faq and it answered my question. :D
Click to expand...
The G15 did have some initial problems with the clear sealant wearing off thus making the paint on the keys wear off. This has supposedly been corrected, as Logitech is taking back G15's without question and replacing them, from what I have read in numerous forums.

As for the RAM: It all has to do with BIOS memory dividers. Most motherboard manufacturers have now incorporated dividers into new BIOS images that will allow someone to utilize up to 250MHz memory without the need to overclock the cpu. The old maximum was 1:1 (200MHz for fsb/htt and 200MHz [DDR400] for the memory speed), but now the new maximum is 1.25:1 (200MHz for fsb/htt and 250MHz [DDR500] for the memory).
 
Dont let the PSU fanatics convince you to spend twice as much as you really should on a PSU. Fine.. dont get the ultra. Thats no reason to jump on the "must spend 200+ or its crap" bandwagon.
 
Kaizer said:
Dont let the PSU fanatics convince you to spend twice as much as you really should on a PSU. Fine.. dont get the ultra. Thats no reason to jump on the "must spend 200+ or its crap" bandwagon.
Click to expand...
Hey, I OC and my PSU cost me $20 after rebates. :-P

You can get a good PSU for around $100, such as the Antec True Power II 550 watt or something from Seasonic or Enermax.

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=270001
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=270341
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=271603
 
xXaNaXx said:
sorry, but i'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you on this point. 10 years ago, i may have agreed, but after having gotten used to the MS Natural Elite keyboards, i will never, ever, ever, ever, ever go back to a standard straight keyboard.....we have them at work, and i have been forced (against my employer's wishes, i might add) to bring in my own MS N.E. to prevent my left hand (copy & paste kb shorcut is used a LOT during my job) from getting all tingly & sore, and sometimes going numb.

do yourself a favor, and get accustomed to an ergonomic keyboard now, and help prevent getting RSI (Repetetive Stress Injury).
Click to expand...
It all depends on how a person uses the keyboard. If they don't respect certain techniques, then using an old-fashioned flat keyboard is about as harmful as using an ergonomic one. Meaning, if a person adheres to getting up and stretching the body for a few minutes at regular intervals, stays aware of the positioning of their body while at the keyboard and mouse, etc., there is no harm in using a non-ergo keyboard, chair, desk, and the like. There are a lot of free resources on the web that highlight basic guidelines to follow and suggestions to consider to greatly reduce the risk of, or prevent, RSI.

So in this sense, then yes, a keyboard is a keyboard is a keyboard, as long as it's used in a body-respecting manner.
 
ChingChang said:
G15 is too expensive for you and the $200 power supply isn't? :p

I know it's a good power supply, but there are ones that cost half as much and would be more than enough for most systems.

btw I've been using my G15 keyboard for several hours every day for two months and the keys have not worn out at all. I usually play an FPS (CS:S) for at least an hour each day.
Click to expand...

While a keyboard just looks pretty, and may be comfortable to use... your basicly shelling out the extra for "comfort". Meanwhile, a high-end PSU with a super-clean stream of power is never something worth skimping on. Ok, the G15 is nice, but what makes this whole computer your building run? Tons of transistors and such. What makes those work? Your PSU. If you get what I'm trying to say...
 
n64man120 said:
While a keyboard just looks pretty, and may be comfortable to use... your basicly shelling out the extra for "comfort". Meanwhile, a high-end PSU with a super-clean stream of power is never something worth skimping on. Ok, the G15 is nice, but what makes this whole computer your building run? Tons of transistors and such. What makes those work? Your PSU. If you get what I'm trying to say...
Click to expand...
More importantly: What puts those to work? We do. With a keyboard and mouse. :p :D
 
n64man120 said:
While a keyboard just looks pretty, and may be comfortable to use... your basicly shelling out the extra for "comfort". Meanwhile, a high-end PSU with a super-clean stream of power is never something worth skimping on. Ok, the G15 is nice, but what makes this whole computer your building run? Tons of transistors and such. What makes those work? Your PSU. If you get what I'm trying to say...
Click to expand...
And what I'm trying to say is a $100-130 PSU should perform the same as that $200 one for a gaming computer. Money saved from that can be put towards more "comfort"
 
ChingChang said:
And what I'm trying to say is a $100-130 PSU should perform the same as that $200 one for a gaming computer. Money saved from that can be put towards more "comfort"
Click to expand...
QFT.

Get the Enermax Liberty 500Watt......$110.

More than enough.

Spend the rest on an ergo or something!
 
While I agree that a $130 PSU from a quality maker is sufficient for someone building a gaming system and doesn't intend on pushing overclocks, putting the importance of a high-end keyboard and PSU in the same class is rediculous. Ok your hands operate the computer, and you want a shiny keyboard with an LCD screen... thats all well and good. But to say it's on par with the shear importance of a PSU is nonsense. The power supply feeds electricity to your hundreds or thousands of dollars of ram/cpu/gpu/etc... that's the worst place to say extra money isn't worth it.

DejaWiz said:
More importantly: What puts those to work? We do. With a keyboard and mouse. :p :D
Click to expand...
 
Slartibartfast said:
DirectX 10 cards are coming out at the end of the year, not a lot of point in paying out the ass for a dx9 card now.
Click to expand...

The end of the year??? You know thats like 8-10 months away right?(Q4) He is looking to build in march or april. DX11 cards will be coming out a couple years after that, why shouldn't he wait for those?

If you keep waiting for the next supercool thing to come out you will never have a finished computer, the industry just moves too fast.
 
TheTMan said:
The end of the year??? You know thats like 8-10 months away right?(Q4) He is looking to build in march or april. DX11 cards will be coming out a couple years after that, why shouldn't he wait for those?

If you keep waiting for the next supercool thing to come out you will never have a finished computer, the industry just moves too fast.
Click to expand...

I'll get the 7900gt for right now and I think I'll be set. Maybe at the end of the year I'll buy a DX10 gfx card and sell my 7900gt on ebay and get what I can get for it.
 
n64man120 said:
While I agree that a $130 PSU from a quality maker is sufficient for someone building a gaming system and doesn't intend on pushing overclocks, putting the importance of a high-end keyboard and PSU in the same class is rediculous. Ok your hands operate the computer, and you want a shiny keyboard with an LCD screen... thats all well and good. But to say it's on par with the shear importance of a PSU is nonsense. The power supply feeds electricity to your hundreds or thousands of dollars of ram/cpu/gpu/etc... that's the worst place to say extra money isn't worth it.
Click to expand...
Well that part is obvious. I certainly wasn't intending for anyone to take my comments that seriously (hence the :D and :p ).

Besides, d0m said he wouldn't mind getting a G15, so I simply incorporated it into the list I put together for him. It's his first build, so I thought I'd throw the G15 in there for bling (although we were trying to make the point that if he's got that big a budget, he might as well put it to good use.).
 
DejaWiz said:
It all depends on how a person uses the keyboard. If they don't respect certain techniques, then using an old-fashioned flat keyboard is about as harmful as using an ergonomic one. Meaning, if a person adheres to getting up and stretching the body for a few minutes at regular intervals, stays aware of the positioning of their body while at the keyboard and mouse, etc., there is no harm in using a non-ergo keyboard, chair, desk, and the like. There are a lot of free resources on the web that highlight basic guidelines to follow and suggestions to consider to greatly reduce the risk of, or prevent, RSI.

So in this sense, then yes, a keyboard is a keyboard is a keyboard, as long as it's used in a body-respecting manner.
Click to expand...


i agree that people should follow good computing guidelines to help prevent RSI, and i try my best to do so....the point i'm trying to make is that even *after* following these guidelines, just switching from my MS N.E. back to a standard flat keyboard, and changing nothing else, is what started my problems......and as soon as i go back to an ergo, the problem goes away.....completely.

i have an ergo chair, and as is recommended, i take frequent breaks where i completely remove my hands from the kb, get up & stretch, etc.....the difference is clearly there (at least for me).....your mileage may vary, though, as no two people are exactly alike....it just can't be accepted as a universal "hard fact" that there is no difference between using an ergo & a flat, when there clearly is a huge difference. anyone can easily look at the position their wrists are in when using a flat vs. an ergo, and see how big of a difference there is.....the straighter they are, the better.

if it doesn't bother you, then ok....but then again, it didn't bother me 10 years ago, either...... ;) <shrug>
 
n64man120 said:
While I agree that a $130 PSU from a quality maker is sufficient for someone building a gaming system and doesn't intend on pushing overclocks, putting the importance of a high-end keyboard and PSU in the same class is rediculous. Ok your hands operate the computer, and you want a shiny keyboard with an LCD screen... thats all well and good. But to say it's on par with the shear importance of a PSU is nonsense. The power supply feeds electricity to your hundreds or thousands of dollars of ram/cpu/gpu/etc... that's the worst place to say extra money isn't worth it.
Click to expand...
All I was trying to say is that there would be a bigger gain from getting the G15 over a regular keyboard (many extra features), vs the gain of getting a $200 power supply over a $120 power supply (minor stability increase) for this guys requirements.

A gaming computer like this really doesn't need that when a $100-130 Antec, OCZ, Enermax, etc will be more than enough, even if he does decide to overclock.

I don't think anyone here is trying to say the PSU decision is similar to keyboard decisions or anything... we all know budget/generic and cheap PSU's can be the biggest waste of money, especially when they can kill many other components of the computer... but any quality name brand PSU over $100 will be sufficient for this guys needs.
 
<<<--- ergonomic convert as of 2 years ago... im never going back

I have talked to an owner of a custom computer company about the 8 series and read rumors and junk about it, but bottem line that I got is that it isn't going to be so HUGE a jump from a 7800 gtx 256mb... so as far as upgrade ideas are concerned you might as well just get the 7800 gtx, but stay away from getting a second one and just save up for 2 in the 9 series.. or a better car haha.

I have a 7800 gtx 256mb, I love it, you will to. (ergo is ure friend)
 
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