8800 AGP for old computers

I

isai95

Limp Gawd
Joined
Nov 9, 2005
Messages
335
Is Nvidia giving us an AGP video card to compete with the ATI HD 3850 AGP?
 
No, there just simply isn't a need to compete. It's technology that was obselete over three years ago. NVIDIA would probably LOSE more money developing and producing the card than it would make on sales at this point. I'm quite honestly surprised that ATI is actually going to make a 38xx AGP card. :eek:

NVIDIA made their last real foray into the performance AGP market with the 7800GS cards, although Gainward did make a few special 7900 AGP cards.
 
There are plenty of AGP computer users that will benefit of a killer 8800 AGP video card.
 
isai95 said:
There are plenty of AGP computer users that will benefit of a killer 8800 AGP video card.
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This discussion has taken place time and time again, and it never goes anywhere. So I'll just leave you with this to ponder:

If what you say is true don't you think that NVIDIA would be pumping out AGP cards with current generation (G80 and G92) GPUs on them? What... you don't think they've done the research and crunched the numbers? Sorry pal, there aren't enough of you guys left. At some point you'll have to get rid of that AGP motherboard and 8-track player, and move into the current millenium with the rest of us. :)
 
Agreed. AGP was a valid argument 2 years ago when PCIe was still pretty new, but now? Come on, you're willing to stick with an old Pentium 4 or Socket 754 system and still want an 8800-level card? Talk about component mismatching.
 
8800 + AGP will simply not work. They did something making the card that would not make it compatible.

ob·so·lete - no longer in general use; fallen into disuse.

The thing is, it is still in general use, just not from an enthusiast standpoint. My system isn't top of the line, but it's not obsolete by any means. I am glad that I'm building a new system in March, though.
 
Once Nvidia see that ATI is selling their HD 3850 agp with great success, I bet that they would get theirs in the market also. My P4 3.0ghz works just fine and serves me good for what I use it. Why would I pay $1,000 for upgrading when I could pay less than $200.00 for the new HD 3850 AGP and play the newest games like COD2, COD3, ARMY etc, @ at least 1280 x 1024?

It doesn't have to be the 8800 series, it could be the newest series, I just used the 8800 to put an example.
 
There are plenty of AGP computer users that would benefit from getting new computers.
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Yeah right! to read email, type a letter and browse the internet? Give me a break!
 
isai95 said:
Once Nvidia see that ATI is selling their HD 3850 agp with great success, I bet that they would get theirs in the market also.
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i guess nvidia saw the x1950pro agp (i think?) wasn't doing so hot ;)
 
isai95 said:
Once Nvidia see that ATI is selling their HD 3850 agp with great success, I bet that they would get theirs in the market also. My P4 3.0ghz works just fine and serves me good for what I use it. Why would I pay $1,000 for upgrading when I could pay less than $200.00 for the new HD 3850 AGP and play the newest games like COD2, COD3, ARMY etc, @ at least 1280 x 1024?

It doesn't have to be the 8800 series, it could be the newest series, I just used the 8800 to put an example.
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It's just like the V6/V8 Mustang/Camaro arguement. Yes, both will get you to where you need to go, but it's how you get there that counts to most people in here.
 
isai95 said:
Once Nvidia see that ATI is selling their HD 3850 agp with great success, I bet that they would get theirs in the market also. My P4 3.0ghz works just fine and serves me good for what I use it. Why would I pay $1,000 for upgrading when I could pay less than $200.00 for the new HD 3850 AGP and play the newest games like COD2, COD3, ARMY etc, @ at least 1280 x 1024?

It doesn't have to be the 8800 series, it could be the newest series, I just used the 8800 to put an example.
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Most of the serious gamers upgraded their system to pci-e based systems. If you are casual gamer and you want to play older games such as cod2 at 1280 x 1024, I think x850 or 7800 cards would be plenty. You can get this cards used for $50-$60. IMHO I would safe $150 torward purchasing my new system. Also you don't have to spent $1000 on budget gamer system. If you are willing to o/c you can get budget system (see my sig) for about $500. The system is good enough to play latest games, plus I can always upgrade to quad Penryn next year if I need more juice :D
 
Cyrilix said:
Agreed. AGP was a valid argument 2 years ago when PCIe was still pretty new, but now? Come on, you're willing to stick with an old Pentium 4 or Socket 754 system and still want an 8800-level card? Talk about component mismatching.
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There's still plenty of socket 939 (with X2 CPU's) users out there with AGP slots on them that still work great for gaming and could use a nicer video card..........:D
 
amd7674 said:
Most of the serious gamers upgraded their system to pci-e based systems. If you are casual gamer and you want to play older games such as cod2 at 1280 x 1024, I think x850 or 7800 cards would be plenty. You can get this cards used for $50-$60. IMHO I would safe $150 torward purchasing my new system. Also you don't have to spent $1000 on budget gamer system. If you are willing to o/c you can get budget system (see my sig) for about $500. The system is good enough to play latest games, plus I can always upgrade to quad Penryn next year if I need more juice :D
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$80 - E2160 3.2Ghz @ 1.44V
$40 - Scythe Ninja Plus rev.B hsf
$90 - GA-P35-DS3L
$50 - Mushkin HP2-6400 2X1Gb 4-5-4-11 800Mhz @ 2.15V
$80 - Corsair VX550 550W Psu
$20 - 4 * Yate Loons d12sl-12 @ 8V
$75 - WD 320Gb 16Mb Sata
$30 - Nec dvd-rw 3500AG
$275 - XFX 8800GT XT 'Alpha Dog' 512Mb 702/1728/950 + stock hsf

Total: $740 before shipping, without case.or display.

Case is ~$50-100, display is ~$200-300, and you're back at a little over $1000. No matter how you look at it, you're not using a $500 machine. Prices quoted aren't stellar, but they're not horrid either.
 
silent-circuit said:
$80 - E2160 3.2Ghz @ 1.44V
$40 - Scythe Ninja Plus rev.B hsf
$90 - GA-P35-DS3L
$50 - Mushkin HP2-6400 2X1Gb 4-5-4-11 800Mhz @ 2.15V
$80 - Corsair VX550 550W Psu
$20 - 4 * Yate Loons d12sl-12 @ 8V
$75 - WD 320Gb 16Mb Sata
$30 - Nec dvd-rw 3500AG
$275 - XFX 8800GT XT 'Alpha Dog' 512Mb 702/1728/950 + stock hsf

Total: $740 before shipping, without case.or display.

Case is ~$50-100, display is ~$200-300, and you're back at a little over $1000. No matter how you look at it, you're not using a $500 machine. Prices quoted aren't stellar, but they're not horrid either.
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He's assuming that you'd keep the HD, DVD, fans and PSU from your current build. You can save another 30$ with OCZ RAM after rebate too. Add in your old case, and display, and you've got a PCIe worthy upgrade for only a few dollars more than the "8800 AGP" would debut at.
 
If that's all you're doing, then you most certainly don't need an 8800
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I play COD2 and other games ocassionally, really, I don't need a killer quad processor computer with a top of the line video card; but I could buy a HD 3850 agp for under $200.00 and I'm sure that my old P4 3.0ghz would play COD2 at 1600 x 1200 just fine better than any other previous AGP card. Tell me how can you justify spending more than $200.00 for my needs? I'm happy and satified with my P4 3.0ghz perhaps more than what you are for your top of the line computer. As a matter in fact, you will never be happy or satisfied because you have an obsession to keep upgrading your computer. Your hobbie is upgrading, rather than enjoying what you have.:D I buy a computer and use it until no longer serves me.
 
It's just like the V6/V8 Mustang/Camaro arguement. Yes, both will get you to where you need to go, but it's how you get there that counts to most people in here
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This is pure BS.
The main purpose of a car is to drive from point A to point B. Other than that is BS.
 
Arcygenical said:
He's assuming that you'd keep the HD, DVD, fans and PSU from your current build. You can save another 30$ with OCZ RAM after rebate too. Add in your old case, and display, and you've got a PCIe worthy upgrade for only a few dollars more than the "8800 AGP" would debut at.
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Thank you, I was going to say that ;)
 
You never know, one of the Card manufactureres might put out an 8800GS in AGP..

I would say that the days of having an AGP product are comming to an and..

When was the last VLB graphics card released?
 
I guess having an old processor means you get no benefit from a powerfull GPU :rolleyes:

And apparently enthusiast is no longer a term for a hobbyist its a measure of your bank account.:rolleyes:

The anti AGP group of folks on [H] has been claiming every card released is it for AGP and yet cards are still being released for the AGP platform and they keep selling well. You think they would have gotten the point that they where wrong and there are still enough folks on AGP willing to spend the money yet they still say ignorant shit like "Sorry pal, there aren't enough of you guys left" even though this has been disproven everytime a new card is released.

Blue Falcon said:
NVIDIA made their last real foray into the performance AGP market with the 7800GS cards, although Gainward did make a few special 7900 AGP cards.
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Actually Nvidia made the 7900GS and 7950GT AGP cards not that long ago they where not special gainward cards.

You guys are more than welcome to believe whatever you like but understand that AGP machines vastly outnumber PCI-E machines out there. The platform has only been around a couple years and you expect the world to have shifted on over to it already?

All that aside i do remember reading that the way the 8 series cards (The G80's anyway) are made prevents them from putting the interconnect chip that would be needed to port it over to AGP. I dont remember where or when i read this.
 
i wonder how much the 3850 agp cards will really cost? when the x1950 pro agp's became available, their pcix cousins had fallen under 200 usd shipped, while etailers were asking for 250 usd before any tax or shipping. if the 3850 agp's come paired with 512 ram, agp gamers with dual core cpu's will easily be able to enjoy cod4 at 1920x1080.
 
The anti AGP group of folks on [H] has been claiming every card released is it for AGP and yet cards are still being released for the AGP platform and they keep selling well. You think they would have gotten the point that they where wrong and there are still enough folks on AGP willing to spend the money yet they still say ignorant shit like "Sorry pal, there aren't enough of you guys left" even though this has been disproven everytime a new card is released.
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I agree with you 100%
They said the samething for floopys, PCI and still motherboards have one.:D
They just can't stand that they pay premiun dollars and are not the only ones that play those darn games:D
Oh, I play at 2600 x 1600, what a big deal! but at what cost? $5,000.00?
They just like to show that have money to burn. Sorry pals I sweat to get my money. I don't get it from my mon or credit cards.:p
 
People have been saying AGP is dead for well over a year... I'm too lazy to dig for it, but if your bored, search back and find one of the threads regarding the AGP X1950 series....

People were screaming that it would never happen, but it did, I have two running happily at home right now.... You might not like it, or support it, but the fact is, AGP is not dead... not even close. The more AGP cards that ship, the longer it will live.

Oh, and take a look here as well......I'd say there are a few here still running AGP systems...
 
isai95 said:
This is pure BS.
The main purpose of a car is to drive from point A to point B. Other than that is BS.
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Try and tell that to a car/truck enthusiast. :D

Thats like someone telling us that a computer is just for browsing the internet. We all know that is BS. To each their own.
 
pfunkman said:
I guess having an old processor means you get no benefit from a powerfull GPU :rolleyes:

And apparently enthusiast is no longer a term for a hobbyist its a measure of your bank account.:rolleyes:

The anti AGP group of folks on [H] has been claiming every card released is it for AGP and yet cards are still being released for the AGP platform and they keep selling well. You think they would have gotten the point that they where wrong and there are still enough folks on AGP willing to spend the money yet they still say ignorant shit like "Sorry pal, there aren't enough of you guys left" even though this has been disproven everytime a new card is released.



Actually Nvidia made the 7900GS and 7950GT AGP cards not that long ago they where not special gainward cards.

You guys are more than welcome to believe whatever you like but understand that AGP machines vastly outnumber PCI-E machines out there. The platform has only been around a couple years and you expect the world to have shifted on over to it already?

All that aside i do remember reading that the way the 8 series cards (The G80's anyway) are made prevents them from putting the interconnect chip that would be needed to port it over to AGP. I dont remember where or when i read this.
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I agree with you on the fact that being an enthousiest has nothing to do with your bank account. There are plenty of hardware selections available for just about any platform. The real problem is that at a certain point, availability of newer technology that will interface with an older platform becomes nill, either due to technical limitations or market limitation. Its sad, but true.

As for PCIe vs AGP,

AGP First appeared in 1997 and was an industry standard until almost 2005, and there are products still being made with this slot. PCIe was introduced in 2004 and is the dominant interface for the forseeable future. Yes, there are probably more AGP slots out there than PCIe, but the vast majority of people who are prone to upgrade their video cards have already upgraded their entire systems sometime within the last 4 years, with the majority going to a PCIe board.

The rest of the consumer base with the AGP slots still in play are probably looking for budget solutions at this point.

The rest are a very niche minority.
 
isai95 said:
This is pure BS.
The main purpose of a car is to drive from point A to point B. Other than that is BS.
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Not really. Some people show their cars at car shows. The main purpose of my turbocharged Z28 is to pimp smack Godzilla....
 
There are still plenty of AGP systems that could benefit from 3850 agp like 939 opterons/x2/a64, tons of 754 systems and probably some decently oced p4 athlon XP systems.
 
Try and tell that to a car/truck enthusiast.

Thats like someone telling us that a computer is just for browsing the internet. We all know that is BS. To each their own.
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The vast majority of people have more things to do in life other than driving a car and playing with a computer.:D
 
Those are the boring ones though..
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Boring? What do mean? What if I'm having fun with your girlfriend, sister or your anty while you are playing your little games or driving your car? Have you thought about that?:D
 
isai95 said:
Boring? What do mean? What if I'm having fun with your girlfriend, sister or your anty while you are playing your little games or driving your car? Have you thought about that?:D
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Its a Win/Win, Everone would be getting off.
 
isai95 said:
Boring? What do mean? What if I'm having fun with your girlfriend, sister or your anty while you are playing your little games or driving your car? Have you thought about that?:D
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Never said that's my entire life. That's why it's called my "hobby". Oh, and you can have my auntie.
 
I myself am truely amazed that there is still an AGP market left.

I don't think that AGP is bad at all, at least not for casual users or gamers.

But seeing as how AGP has kind of fallen off the map should be a key indicator that it might be time to switch to PCI-E. This would only be for future compatibility though as there really isn't a TRUE need to update one's machine.

I'm on PCI-E and the card I'm using sux. Just because a video card has PCI-E does not automatically make it good or better than an AGP card.

However, saying that AGP machines are part of the enthusiast market is rediculous. The absolute best AGP cards out (at the moment) get dominated by fourth and fifth string high-end PCI-E cards. It's just the way it is.

I remember when AGP came out. No video card in existance could even begin to use the (then) massive bandwidth on AGP x2. Cards were just starting to utilize what PCI had for bandwidth. The same could be said now with PCI-E and PCI-E 2.0. Five or ten years from now, we'll be singing a different toon.

It's funny because I remember people telling me (in the early 2000's) that PCI cards were just as good, if not better than, AGP x4 cards. lol

It sounds rediculous, but the same argument is going on now with AGP x8 and PCI-E.

There just simply isn't a (big enough) market to continue making AGP cards in the high-end relm. Or even mid-range market for that.

Even I (whom is poor compared to many of the other members on [H]ard) made the move to PCI-E. I refuse to buy any more legacy parts from AGP. I still have AGP systems in use, but I would never pay top dollar for an upgrade on such a machine.

Even the machine in my sig is still using DDR. DDR is very expensive compared to faster DDR2 sticks. In the end, the people who have AGP will actually pay more to keep updating an older system with expensive legacy parts than just biting the bullet and getting an all new system which will save money and will be easier to upgrade in the long run.


EDIT: Hey Blue Falcon.
 
Red Falcon said:
EDIT: Hey Blue Falcon.
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LOL, hey there Red Falcon... Always nice to see a friendly face!



The posts in this thread are exactly why I try to avoid this debate whenever it comes up. These threads always end up with name-calling and flaming instead of rational discussion. :(
Maybe I'm weird or something but I just don't jerk it to flamefests. I got over that kind of nonsense long, long ago.

For the record, I'm not some 'anti AGP' zealot. I love me some AGP - but it IS obsolete.

Just like VHS is obselete to DVD and BD - yes they may still be making the odd VHS tape now and then, and yes there are about a billion of them still sitting around out there ready to eat a tape - but your new big budget hollywood movie release is going to come out on DVD and BD (at least at first, anyway).
 
Never said that's my entire life. That's why it's called my "hobby". Oh, and you can have my auntie.
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Well, if you hook me up right with her and she and I can have so much fun, sure, I can PayPal you some money for your upgrades!:D without her knowing nothing:p
 
The only AGP systems that can use the power of an 8800GT will be those running very high clock speeds.

I'm running an Athlon 64 x2 @ 2.8GHz PCI-E and it is NOT fast enough to properly drive my 8800GT.
If I reduce my standard 8800GT clocks by 20%, it makes almost no difference to the in game performance. Reducing the clock speeds by 50% gets a big performance drop so it seems that at around 80% of its default clock speed is good enough for my A64x2 @ 2.8GHz.
If I increase the clocks by 20%, the performance difference is negligible, as in practically zero so its pointless clocking my 8800GT !

My 8800GT (standard GPU clocks of 625/1566) has been voltmodded and will run stable at 820/1952 but, for example, it makes no difference (less than 1%) in Crysis at 1360x768 res unless I use a higher res.
Sadly higher res gives lower performance, just not as low as it would have been and is still unusable.

To get more from my 8800GT, I will need to get a fast C2D system which is exactly what I am doing in the next few weeks because of this.
My intention is to get an E4500 or 8400 and clock the nads off it in an X38 motherboard :)
 
Blue Falcon said:
For the record, I'm not some 'anti AGP' zealot. I love me some AGP - but it IS obsolete.

Just like VHS is obselete to DVD and BD - yes they may still be making the odd VHS tape now and then, and yes there are about a billion of them still sitting around out there ready to eat a tape - but your new big budget hollywood movie release is going to come out on DVD and BD (at least at first, anyway).
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AGP is outdated not obsolete. There is still some use left in the platform and cards are still being made for it. AGP was put to rest before its potential was even realized, why people think that makes it obsolete is beyond me.

Obsolete by definition, no longer in general use; fallen into disuse. Its still in use, more so than PCI-E just because its nearly out of production dont make it obsolete.
 
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