7900GTX vs. X1900XTX -- a true trade-off

[PRIME1]

And lackluster shader performance without any chance of HDR+AA. yeah that sounds good.

How is that different from lackluster OpenGL pefromance without any chance of transparency AA?

Throw in worse support and drivers, noisy, power sucking, over heating, and the rest and I fail to see your point.

Outside of a few shader heavy DirectX games, there is little or no appeal.

 

[Banko]

So who with one a X1900XT actually uses HDR+AA in a recent game and has it be playable? I don't think it is in Oblivion, and don't talk to me about Far Cry everyone has beaten it to death.

 

[Dutt1113]

Well, my roommate has decided that his 6800GT just isn't cutting it anymore. He managed to get ~$600 somewhere, and I'm not exactly sure where . Regardless, he's buying a 250gb hard drive for about $100, which leaves him $500 to spend on a video card. Here's the current tradeoff [in his eyes] between the two cards:

X1900XTX

Pros: More pixel shaders, performs better than the 7900GTX in almost all games
Cons: Loud and hot

7900GTX

Pros: Much quieter than the X1900, runs cooler, looks "nicer"
Cons: Not as powerful as the X1900, especially in shader-intensive games

So, which is the one for him? For the record, he has an Abit AN8 Ultra, so SLI/CF are out of the question anyway.

This isn't quite true. Just because it has more pixel shaders, doesn't mean it performs better in "almost" all games. The xtx is claimed by people to have better IQ, but I can't tell the difference personally. The extra pixel shaders on the xtx only makes the images look a little better, not run faster. The xtx only has 16 pixel pipelines where as the gtx has 24. The gtx also has higher clock speeds along with the pipelines which is where the performance issue comes in. The gtx is said to have better performance at the downside of sacrificing a slight amount of IQ, which is negligible. The xtx is the opposite, it uses up some peformance to get a slight more amount of IQ out of it. Both cards are pretty much equal, with each winning in different games. Some games are coded better for nvidia and some for ati, but both play games roughly the same. You just have to have a good cpu to go along with them. I don't have a preference of one company over the other, the gtx just happened to be cheaper at the time I bought it. Who knows, when I buy a new video card probably in 2 gens, maybe it'll be a ati, just depends on which one I like better and which one is better for the price, normally the cheaper one for me.

 

[datamage]

They are both great cards, I'd go with the ATI however.

I went from a X800XT PE to a 7800GTX when it first came out, and while the performance increase with the GTX was substantial, the first thing I noticed was horrible shimmering. Later driver updates fixed it a bit, but after switching back to an ATI card (X1900XTX), boy do I appreciate the superior AF with ATI. There is no contest in that regard.

Anyhow, I've had no problems with drivers from either camp. I do prefer nvidia's cp by far. One last note, this x1900xtx is supposed to be loud, but I never hear it get too loud.. I guess I have decent cooling and air flow in my case.

- D.

 

[oldmanwinter]

without any chance of transparency AA?

You should check your facts. ATI's transparency AA is called "adaptive AA."

 

[nobody_here]

Too true. I also have had very recent versions of cards from both camps, and like Nv drivers better. But with your experience then, uhm...



Survey says............ [X] Sure YOU had both? I'm sure you did. I don't what your intent was with that though. ATi = totally different AF league. It's not even close. This is opts versus opts, and HQAF vrs. as pure as Nv can go - "High" Quality. In short, ATi is less aggressive with AF opts. Hence the low drop going to HQ in the first place. Barely shimmers with opts on, opts off brings angle independent aniso, something Nv can't do at all. Huge thumbs down to this misrepresentation of facts.

As we know, the situation shown below hasn't changed. x1800 same AF as x1900 just as 7900 = 7800 in this regard. Look at the wall in the distance. Shimmering never bothered me on my 7800GTX 256 but once I got used to the ATi, I mean, look.

i think someone forgot to turn on those features that the ATI card doesn't have, the Gamma Correct AA and Transparency Supersampling AA.......

to the OP, i say grab one of these

initial overclocking reports are running 700Mhz + stock out of the box, for $400, not to mention all the extra's that come with the Signature Series cards

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1051784

 

[R1ckCa1n]

How is that different from lackluster OpenGL pefromance without any chance of transparency AA?

Throw in worse support and drivers, noisy, power sucking, over heating, and the rest and I fail to see your point.

Outside of a few shader heavy DirectX games, there is little or no appeal.

You clearly are blinded.... What do you think all the top games are not shader heavy? Don't know if you have noticed but that is the future.

That is OK, the poll speaks for itself. Pre-X1900, it would have been %99.99 NV votes.

You should check your facts. ATI's transparency AA is called "adaptive AA."

He won't mention that because ATI does it for free where it cost NV performance.

 

[nobody_here]

He won't mention that because ATI does it for free where it cost NV performance.

does it really? because i can never tell a difference in performance with it on or off, but i sure as heck can see the difference

 

[Zap [PCGO]]

Even with my glasses off I can see the difference.

But when it comes down to it. Would you notice that in game, the answer is NO. At 80FPS and your running around as fast as you can scanning the screen for something to shoot with your eyes your attention is not on the slightly blurry wall in the distance but the monster or bad guy shooting at out.

We all yap about how nice this card is and how bad that cards is over fractions of a percent of performance.

Right now, my vote is for him to get a X1900XT simply over price. Face it it's cheaper then the 7900GTX. That's the only reason to get one over the other right now.

Just my 2 cents.

I must beg to differ to the first claim you made. I find myself in MANY situations trying my hardest to see as FAR as my poor eyes/lcd/videocard can feed the image to me... Sometimes, to plan my move before I make the dive. A sign with an arrow on that far far away corner perhaps? Would be nice to see that guy standing behind the light pole that is gonna shoot me when I dive closer, too. Or... maybe trying to determine if that crate at the far end of the tunnel is an item crate or a junk crate before risking my life running down the hall for it. Adventuring games also require me to notice things in a scene that's far away.

I do not take side based on !!!!!! impressions. Frankly speaking, I believe all cards now adays can probably blow away all expectation of an avid gamer... These type of discusions only become valid when we are talking about "the willingness to pay a <amount> of money" and "the options available". If they are in the same ball park for the price, why not go for one that will perform slightly better TO YOUR NEED. I mean... when you go buy... say a laptop... two machines that will perform pretty much identical task... but just that one has a power button placed to the left while the other is placed to the right... That's option... You pick what YOU want.

These discussions usually get derailed with flame war between fan boys... It gets tough to sift through all the !!!!!! comments and find the post with "facts". I ALMOST landed myself an x1900xt for 330, but I turned away from it because I didn't feel like I would want to spend over 300 for a video card... and thus, I turned to the next best "price" option, a 190 deal for the card in sig. Happy as can be with both.

If your roommate is willing to spend X amount of money on a video card of type Y or Z... Then he should be thinking about what matters to him more. Not what matters to every one and !!!!!!s here.

The facts are pretty laid out no?

And now for my little biased two cents. If I have such money as your roomate, I would go for the x1900xtx simply because image quality and detail matters to me very much... not to mention looking at the price and my pocket realistically...

I understand that !!!!!!ism leads to competition... but I'd say I care for my (in this case, your) gain first.

EDIT: ah, I just noticed that a certain word that describes one "favor toward a certain party without any question" has been filtered out. Sorry.

 

[Spoudazo]

The 7900gtx beats the x1900xtx in A LOT of games (Quake 4, BF2, HL2, etc.)

 

[ManicOne]

Another thread on this......Just screams fan warfare. I wish people would use the search button rather than kicking off another red/green battle.

 

[texuspete00]

So who with one a X1900XT actually uses HDR+AA in a recent game and has it be playable? I don't think it is in Oblivion, and don't talk to me about Far Cry everyone has beaten it to death.

I think nv guys that have spent too long on the green side of the fence think AA + HDR is more crippling on ATi cards than it is because, apparently, since Nv can't do it, it must be impossible. To me 2x at high res absolutely crushes zero. I don't use AA in GRAW because it's the only game that doesn't let me. You?

 

[texuspete00]

And ok, so I have 2. I used it on one all the time. Oblivion lags a bit no matter what when loading a new area. So I say fuck it, and run with 2x. Might as well. Only game on the fence anyways. Far from a joke on anything else. Heh, well they say a XT is overkill for a 1280*1024 monitor, but hey the 'impossible' HDR+AA game is absolutely playable on the ATi card at that res if you so choose. I got by 1680*1050 on one.

So now I have two, and none of that matters at all. In the face of a better scaling SLi, I stayed ATi, though many could argue NV's duals are better. But that's how big ATi's IQ advantage is to me. 1k in graphics cards not doing AA in Oblivion, or AF looking like page 1.... no thanks. AA in every game but GRAW, better filtering always. Money well spent or not, I don't wish my cards could do anything they can't. Although, I always welcome fast wth open arms.

It is a big deal. Why Nv will fix it next gen.

 

[texuspete00]

Do I drink too much, post too much, or both?

I gather both. I do have to hit backspace a lot.

Peace out...

zzzzzzzzzz

 

[^eMpTy^]

You clearly are blinded.... What do you think all the top games are not shader heavy? Don't know if you have noticed but that is the future.

That is OK, the poll speaks for itself. Pre-X1900, it would have been %99.99 NV votes.

He won't mention that because ATI does it for free where it cost NV performance.

I love it when you claim other people are "blinded"...you make all the other !!!!!!s on this forum look tame by comparison...so I don't think you should go pointing fingers...

 

[^eMpTy^]

Yes, just take a look at that nice AF in the images on the first page of this thread! Very special.

Nobody is doubting that HQAF produces a better looking image...and nobody is saying that HDR+AA isn't cool...the concerns are:

lackluster opengl performance in comparison to d3d
lackluster multi-monitor/multi-desktop support
the ccc sucks
linux support is a joke
and having a space heater/leaf blower in your case
crossfire is inferior to sli

Is HQAF and HDR+AA worth these sacrifices? To some people yes, to other people no. I can really see both sides of the argument, but somehow I doubt you ever will.

 

[vanilla_guerilla]

7900 gt. absolutely no question. and take the deuce change you get and bring your girlfriend out for pizza. and stop reading this silly bullshit.

 

[Least]

7900 gt. absolutely no question. and take the deuce change you get and bring your girlfriend out for pizza. and stop reading this silly bullshit.

QFT.

There's almost no reason to be spending 500 bucks on a video card right now, seeing as DX10 cards are around the corner.

 

[Tigerblade]

Same questions, same answers. x1900xtx running loud and hot is now not an issue. WHEN WILL THE NV !!!!!!S LEARN THIS! Straws and grasping spring to mind.

Second point why anyone would drop this amount of cash on a card with inferior feature set is anyones guess.....!!!!!!s only to answer that one I think. Maybe the ones that were arguing that the 6XXX series was superior to x800 series because of this very reason maybe? You know you wanna explain your sudden change of heart.....

x1900xtx hands down.

 

[5150Joker]

Nobody is doubting that HQAF produces a better looking image...and nobody is saying that HDR+AA isn't cool...the concerns are:

lackluster opengl performance in comparison to d3d
lackluster multi-monitor/multi-desktop support
the ccc sucks
linux support is a joke
and having a space heater/leaf blower in your case
crossfire is inferior to sli

Is HQAF and HDR+AA worth these sacrifices? To some people yes, to other people no. I can really see both sides of the argument, but somehow I doubt you ever will.

The OGL performance isn't nearly as "lackluster" as you make it out to be. In the OGL games that actually matter, the XTX stays pegged at 60+ fps at high res with 4xAA/16xAF (e.g. Quake 4 at 1680x1050 4xAA/16xAF is what I use). If the CCC isn't someone's cup of tea there are very good alternatives like ATi Tray Tools even though there's nothing wrong with CCC itself. Linux doesn't mean jack for 99% of gamers out there. And as for Crossfire being inferior to SLi, if that's true, why does SLi get creamed at high resolutions + >8xAA? Obviously if someone is going to spend cash on a dual card solution, they're going to want to push the AA as high as possible and only Crossfire will give them that option because SLi has lackluster performance. Face it, nV lost this battle, maybe they'll do a better job with G80 but I have my doubts.

 

[rincewind]

i think someone forgot to turn on those features that the ATI card doesn't have, the Gamma Correct AA and Transparency Supersampling AA

Well, Adaptive AA has already been mentioned. And ATi have done gamma-corrected AA since the 9700, which was quite some time before nVidia got round to it. Check your facts.

 

[Jon855]

I'll say 1900xtx only because I sport one and the visual is so much better than any other cards and I can run all games with max aa and af enabled without any problems

 

[stopmenow]

if i had that money now, i would wait for the next series to come, 8000gtx.

 

[Tigerblade]

if i had that money now, i would wait for the next series to come, 8000gtx.

Why specifically the nv card? Do you know something we don't?

Why do people have such brand loyalty?

 

[vanilla_guerilla]

the guy prefers a certain brand of cards. does this mean he has some kind of character defect?

 

[nobody_here]

Well, Adaptive AA has already been mentioned. And ATi have done gamma-corrected AA since the 9700, which was quite some time before nVidia got round to it. Check your facts.

there's no way in that example that that screenshot was taken on the 7800 with everything turned on......although the the pciture caption doesnt refer to AA mode, only AF mode.....

as a side note, i really dont think Adaptive AA is the same or gives the same effect as Transparency AA, you'll have to show me where they are the same

 

[spaceman]

1900XT + aftermarket cooler + Oc to XTX or more = a 72C under load or better and whisper quiet amazing IQ GPU FTW.

I have owned every GPU Nvidia and ATI since the 9800 release and the 1900 is the best I've seen.

 

[R1ckCa1n]

lackluster opengl performance in comparison to d3d
lackluster multi-monitor/multi-desktop support
the ccc sucks
linux support is a joke
and having a space heater/leaf blower in your case
crossfire is inferior to sli

Granted the 7800/7900 series cards are great cards but what does it buy you right now?
1. Doom3? Come on, this game is all but dead. And how far off are the two cards in modern OGL games? Not nearly the gap it used to be.
2. Multi monitor support has always worked for me. The only time you see posts are from the ones having problems (very few from a quick search), not the ones who have no problems.......
3. CCC isn't the best but it works just as needed. Most gamers don't notice how bad CCC is while gaming.
4. What gamer truely cares about Linux?
5. Your sound references are funny considering everyone who dismissed the 5900 sound levels Yes it is loud but nothing that can't be fixed very cheap. A quick search on this finds most X1900 users are saying the card is not a loud as advertised by the NV marketing machine.
6. I might be stepping out on a limb but Crossfire with a 3200 chipset is very easy and works great and funny Kyle found this to be true in his last Crossfire evaluation. I have yet to see many posts about crossfire problems on the forums so were is this data on how it is inferior? Odds are there are more posts on this forum about SLI issues than Crossfire issues.

Is HQAF and HDR+AA worth these sacrifices? To some people yes, to other people no. I can really see both sides of the argument, but somehow I doubt you ever will.

HQAF should be a must for all gamers. Why sink $500.00 to $1000.00 in a 7900 when you are getting a card that creates inferior IQ? I, myself, was floored by the obvious difference when I bought my 7800GTX. This goes along with NV's marketing program that dismisses IQ for speed.

Now considering all games are becoming shader intensive, the 7800/7900 series will continue to suffer. Why buy a new card today when it can't even exploit TODAYS features?

Too each his own, I guess.

 

[Spank]

as a side note, i really dont think Adaptive AA is the same or gives the same effect as Transparency AA, you'll have to show me where they are the same

You should read this http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=ODIyLDgsLGhlbnRodXNpYXN0

 

[nobody_here]

You should read this http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=ODIyLDgsLGhlbnRodXNpYXN0

i was looking for a good article on the subject, thanks!

 

[teenk]

So who with one a X1900XT actually uses HDR+AA in a recent game and has it be playable? I don't think it is in Oblivion, and don't talk to me about Far Cry everyone has beaten it to death.

Oblivion: x1800xt @ 1860x1050, 4aa+hdr+hqaf on, very beautiful indeed , now if only I could have afforded and x1900xt I'd be playing above 30fps (ave fps)

 

[Tigerblade]

the guy prefers a certain brand of cards. does this mean he has some kind of character defect?

Character? probably not.... Common sense and rationality? Yes. People that pay more for an inferior card amaze me. They really do. And to put your money on a brand before anything is known about it or its competitor is also crazy.

If we all bought shit because of the brand name then where would there be an incentive to better older products?

What I'm saying is the x1900xtx IS cheaper and has a better feature set and arguably faster than the 7900GTX. What do !!!!!!s do? Instead of buying the 'opposition' product they bank everything on the next line in 'their' company. Idiotic if you ask me.

 

[boomheadshot45]

Granted the 7800/7900 series cards are great cards but what does it buy you right now?
1. Doom3? Come on, this game is all but dead. And how far off are the two cards in modern OGL games? Not nearly the gap it used to be.
2. Multi monitor support has always worked for me. The only time you see posts are from the ones having problems (very few from a quick search), not the ones who have no problems.......
3. CCC isn't the best but it works just as needed. Most gamers don't notice how bad CCC is while gaming.
4. What gamer truely cares about Linux?
5. Your sound references are funny considering everyone who dismissed the 5900 sound levels Yes it is loud but nothing that can't be fixed very cheap. A quick search on this finds most X1900 users are saying the card is not a loud as advertised by the NV marketing machine.
6. I might be stepping out on a limb but Crossfire with a 3200 chipset is very easy and works great and funny Kyle found this to be true in his last Crossfire evaluation. I have yet to see many posts about crossfire problems on the forums so were is this data on how it is inferior? Odds are there are more posts on this forum about SLI issues than Crossfire issues.



HQAF should be a must for all gamers. Why sink $500.00 to $1000.00 in a 7900 when you are getting a card that creates inferior IQ? I, myself, was floored by the obvious difference when I bought my 7800GTX. This goes along with NV's marketing program that dismisses IQ for speed.

Now considering all games are becoming shader intensive, the 7800/7900 series will continue to suffer. Why buy a new card today when it can't even exploit TODAYS features?

Too each his own, I guess.

there aren't as much problems with crossfire because not as much people have cf then sli and if you don't think there are any problems then you are wrong! Look at the dfi cfx 3200! It has so much BIOS problems and it takes a long time for it to get stable. Also there are alot of "gamers" who care about linux ok good!Also ati needs to fix CCC so that if your running crossfire that yogu can check both cards temps. yeah if you don't think there aren't any problems...jst go through this whole thread and look through what he has gone through http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=178864. OWNAGE! PWNED!

 

[eastvillager]

SLIing high end cards like that is really dumb with DX 10 right around the corner.

Almost as dumb as assuming DX10 is right around the corner.

DX10 has been "right around the corner" for over a year. As long as they tie it to Vista, it isn't showing up until Vista is ready---which could be awhile.

 

[ToyYoda03]

I like ATI more than nVidia, not because Im an ATI fan but because Ive been screwed more by nvidia than ATI.

With that said, I bought a 7900gt yesterday but honestly wanted the 1900xt. From all the reviews I read, it was the better card for the games I play but no matter how much better it is you can NOT beat the price of the 7900gt compared to the 1900xt.

 

[texuspete00]

there aren't as much problems with crossfire because not as much people have cf then sli and if you don't think there are any problems then you are wrong! Look at the dfi cfx 3200! It has so much BIOS problems and it takes a long time for it to get stable. Also there are alot of "gamers" who care about linux ok good!Also ati needs to fix CCC so that if your running crossfire that yogu can check both cards temps. yeah if you don't think there aren't any problems...jst go through this whole thread and look through what he has gone through http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=178864. OWNAGE! PWNED!

Easy on the hormones at the end there. On another note, I'm doing just fine on my DFI and Crossfire x1900's. I'll check out the link though.

 

[krameriffic]

How is that different from lackluster OpenGL pefromance without any chance of transparency AA?

Throw in worse support and drivers, noisy, power sucking, over heating, and the rest and I fail to see your point.

Outside of a few shader heavy DirectX games, there is little or no appeal.

Nobody plays OpenGL games anymore anyway. I haven't bought one since Quake 3. Carmack and the ID software guys just need to move on.

 

[InorganicMatter]

Nobody plays OpenGL games anymore anyway. I haven't bought one since Quake 3. Carmack and the ID software guys just need to move on.

OpenGL is better performing that DirectX, and produces better IQ. Don't try and ignore Quake 4, either. Quake 4 has the best IQ/hardware requirements ratio of any game out there, PERIOD. Nothing, and I mean NOTHING can match that game's speed. On my 6800nu, Quake 4 ran faster and looked better than what most people were buying 7800GTX's to run BF2 at.

OpenGL > DirectX.

 

[ironforge]

Look at the fence on the right side too.. the CLEAR winner is ATi..

Also look at the wire in the far background above the tunnel. The ATI one is solid all the way through and the nvidia one is broken up.

 

[^eMpTy^]

The OGL performance isn't nearly as "lackluster" as you make it out to be. In the OGL games that actually matter, the XTX stays pegged at 60+ fps at high res with 4xAA/16xAF (e.g. Quake 4 at 1680x1050 4xAA/16xAF is what I use). If the CCC isn't someone's cup of tea there are very good alternatives like ATi Tray Tools even though there's nothing wrong with CCC itself. Linux doesn't mean jack for 99% of gamers out there. And as for Crossfire being inferior to SLi, if that's true, why does SLi get creamed at high resolutions + >8xAA? Obviously if someone is going to spend cash on a dual card solution, they're going to want to push the AA as high as possible and only Crossfire will give them that option because SLi has lackluster performance. Face it, nV lost this battle, maybe they'll do a better job with G80 but I have my doubts.

I didn't really make it out to be any level of lackluster, I just said it was lackluster when compared to d3d...I'm not saying that this translates to unplayable games...I'm just pointing out that every time a new OpenGL game comes out ATi has to explain why they are so much slower at it than nvidia...and that is definitely a weakness where their drivers are concerned.

As for the CCC, you shouldn't have to download a third party applicatoin to get a good control panel...there's no excuse for not fixing the ccc...

SLI AA and CrossFire super AA modes are not directly comparable...they're completely different methods and hardly anyone uses them...where SLi wins is in scalability, all the gtx reviews showed the same thing, SLi is more stable and scales better than CrossFire...without a dongle...

If you think I'm being extreme here...just realize that we're nitpicking little details here...both cards are fantastic, I'd be more than happy with either of them for sure...