780i 790i just waste of time?

[OofC_S7v7N]

Nvidia's new 700 series chipset sounded good to me when i first started reading about them but as i got more into it, it seems that its a 680i just some new chip to allow 3 lanes of pci-e express to operate at 16x and there is no ddr3??? Is this extra pci-e express lane going to make much of a difference running from dual sli to triple sli? And why wouldnt they add support for ddr3 for there next gen motherboard? WHATS THE DEAL??

 

[Lone_Bullet.be]

no-one exactly knows...
Nvdia is quiet around new products, we don't know that much...these rumors are often created bu sites like Fudzilla and the Inq. Read them.. take t with a shipload of salt, move on.
I don't say they're incorrect, i say they were rarely correct

 

[canislupy]

DDR3? Who cares.

As has been pointed out, no real information on 780i yet, but once again, if you want SLI you are locked into nVidia once again. Skulltrail won't be seen until next year from Intel, and even then is going to be an ultra-uber-$$$-enthusiast part anyway (using none other than an nVidia part to accomplish SLI).

So, do you want SLI? If the answer is NO, then get an Intel chipset like everyone else and stop caring what nVidia does or does not do with their chipsets.

If you do want or use SLI like me, then are you currently using 680i? And are you happy with it? Depending on your answer you will now know whether you care about the 780i or not. Personally, the 680i has given me nothing but trouble, so I for one as an SLI user am looking forward to seeing if some of these issues have been resolved in the 780i, even if it is only a minor rev comparatively (which remains to be seen, we should know for sure soon).

 

[jmackay]

DDR3 is a bust so far, with DDR2 prices so cheap no one wants DDR3.

4gb (2x2gb) for $750 DDR3 or ~$100 DDR2.

 

[Dan_D]

It would be rediculous to say that the 780i SLI chipset is a bust already. No retail boards have been seen yet, and even though it may just be a reworked 680i SLI based board, that doesn't mean that they haven't fixed all the issues that plagued the 680i SLI boards.

All of this is pure speculation.

 

[leeghoofd]

Only advantage 780i has for over most 680i boards is that it runs the retail Yorkfield with an OC and that you can still use DDR2 which is way cheaper then DDR3 which the 790i needs, I think they want to phase out 680i, I really hope 780i will be what 680i should have been from the start

For SLI I still remain sceptic, works fab in some games, sucks in other, also Vista support is still so so , why the hell bother with Tri SLI...

DDR3 for me is still way to expensive and beleive me the marketing machine of Nvidia is running full speed again , soooo many peeps will buy it again... it's best to wait and hold off to buy the latest in hardware ( but I also fall into the trap each time )

 

[gs274]

DDR3 is a bust so far, with DDR2 prices so cheap no one wants DDR3.

4gb (2x2gb) for $750 DDR3 or ~$100 DDR2.

HAHAHA...sounds like - DDR...rinse repeat..DDR2...rinse repeat..DDR3. IIRC being on the bleeding edge has always been expensive, Bust? Not hardly!

My experience with nvidia chipsets (had 680i from nov. '06 - mar. '07 before coming to my senses and buying an intel chipset)...wait a little bit for the 1st revisions of the new chipset and stay as far away as possible from the nvidia reference designs...ie evga, bfg, xfx etc...

 

[Glow]

680i really isn't supporting upcoming quadcores theres an article on the front page, so most likely 780i will support the new chips + SLI

 

[jmackay]

HAHAHA...sounds like - DDR...rinse repeat..DDR2...rinse repeat..DDR3. IIRC being on the bleeding edge has always been expensive, Bust? Not hardly!

My experience with nvidia chipsets (had 680i from nov. '06 - mar. '07 before coming to my senses and buying an intel chipset)...wait a little bit for the 1st revisions of the new chipset and stay as far away as possible from the nvidia reference designs...ie evga, bfg, xfx etc...

Care to list reasons for why you think DDR3 is not a bust so far?

 

[CapnBiggles]

Care to list reasons for why you think DDR3 is not a bust so far?

I don't think he's saying DDR3 isn't a bust as much as he's trying to point out that DDR3 is so new it's kind of hard to label it as a success or a failure just yet. It's hasn't really grown into it's shoes, so to speak. He was using the introduction of DDR2 in the past as an example. I mean, only one chipset so far is really taking advantage of DDR3 and it's about as new and cutting edge as the memory itself.

 

[Dan_D]

680i really isn't supporting upcoming quadcores theres an article on the front page, so most likely 780i will support the new chips + SLI

More than likely the 780i SLI chipset based boards will in fact support the newer quad core CPUs.

Only advantage 780i has for over most 680i boards is that it runs the retail Yorkfield with an OC and that you can still use DDR2 which is way cheaper then DDR3 which the 790i needs, I think they want to phase out 680i, I really hope 780i will be what 680i should have been from the start

I have the same hopes as well. The 680i SLI on paper is nearly the perfect chipset. Unfortunately execution is somewhat lacking. Hopefully NVIDIA learned their lessons and won't be cutting corners on the 780i SLI. They'll need several solid reviews and some happy customers to make it successful.

For SLI I still remain sceptic, works fab in some games, sucks in other, also Vista support is still so so , why the hell bother with Tri SLI...

SLI works great in every title I have in my library with the exception of Crysis. SLI profiles get updated all the time in new driver releases. Beyond that SLI has always been very stable for me and worth while. I can afford resolutions of 2560x1600 and in most games, very high levels of AA and AF while getting excellent frame rates. In the latest games, I can still do that, I just have to drop the AA and AF down to minimal levels. Crysis is the one exception, and honestly, triple SLI could make a huge difference there. Obviously I would like to see a new generation of video cards from NVIDIA that beat the 8800GTX/Ultra's, but I'll take what I can get at this point. Like dual card SLI, triple SLI won't be for the masses, or even most enthusiasts. It will be for those with higher end systems and fatter wallets.

DDR3 for me is still way to expensive and beleive me the marketing machine of Nvidia is running full speed again , soooo many peeps will buy it again... it's best to wait and hold off to buy the latest in hardware ( but I also fall into the trap each time )

DDR3 is already getting down to much more reasonable prices. It's no where near as cheap as DDR2 is now, but it's comparable to what DDR2 was a year and a half ago.

 

[gs274]

I don't think he's saying DDR3 isn't a bust as much as he's trying to point out that DDR3 is so new it's kind of hard to label it as a success or a failure just yet. It's hasn't really grown into it's shoes, so to speak. He was using the introduction of DDR2 in the past as an example. I mean, only one chipset so far is really taking advantage of DDR3 and it's about as new and cutting edge as the memory itself.

Exactly Capn, every time their has been a major shift in memory, there has been both people who say from the start that it will fail and those who say it is overpriced. The only ram that has ever "busted" was rambus...ddr3 is only a few months old as far as it's availablity from multiple mfg's goes. Let's talk bust in a year or so.

Pricewise..ddr3 is very competitive with the high end ddr2. IMO, if you want to do a comparison...compare apples to apples...compare ddr3 and ddr2 at the same speeds for pricing. When people say "well I can get 4gb of ddr2-1066 for $200 but 4gb off ddr3-1800 is $800", that's not a very accurate comparison. I give it a year and the pricing will be down where ddr2 is...and ddr2 will cost the same as it does now

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Dan_D]

Exactly Capn, every time their has been a major shift in memory, there has been both people who say from the start that it will fail and those who say it is overpriced. The only ram that has ever "busted" was rambus...ddr3 is only a few months old as far as it's availablity from multiple mfg's goes. Let's talk bust in a year or so.

Pricewise..ddr3 is very competitive with the high end ddr2. IMO, if you want to do a comparison...compare apples to apples...compare ddr3 and ddr2 at the same speeds for pricing. When people say "well I can get 4gb of ddr2-1066 for $200 but 4gb off ddr3-1800 is $800", that's not a very accurate comparison. I give it a year and the pricing will be down where ddr2 is...and ddr2 will cost the same as it does now

Just my 2 cents.

Eventually DDR2 pricing will climb as factories change over to DDR3 production. I don't think that DDR3 will go bust. It's maturing like DDR2 did and about as fast. DDR3 isn't a bad technology, or an undesirable technology the way Rambus was.

 

[CapnBiggles]

Eventually DDR2 pricing will climb as factories change over to DDR3 production. I don't think that DDR3 will go bust. It's maturing like DDR2 did and about as fast. DDR3 isn't a bad technology, or an undesirable technology the way Rambus was.

That's what we're both saying Dan, we agree with you

 

[OofC_S7v7N]

seems like we all should wait to buy are new hardware, the market is to sketchy right now to buy anything the second you buy something the next best thing is out, but thats computers for you go figure!!!, but im sticking to it that the 700 series chipset might fix a few bugs that the 680 has but its not gonna bump up any numbers like you would like to see for a new chipset(do you guys remember the 500series it was out for less then a year and nvidia pulls out the 600 series for the holidays seems like thats what there doing here?) but it might be to early to say?

 

[Glow]

More than likely the 780i SLI chipset based boards will in fact support the newer quad core CPUs.

I didn't think they were going to start supporting PIIIs again, I'd imagine they want upcoming business and not depend on the last couple years chips

 

[jmackay]

That's what we're both saying Dan, we agree with you

If you noticed, I had said "ddr3 is a bust so far". Why would anyone want to buy a mobo that requires ram that for now doesn't offer any real benefits in most games / programs?

 

[CapnBiggles]

If you noticed, I had said "ddr3 is a bust so far". Why would anyone want to buy a mobo that requires ram that for now doesn't offer any real benefits in most games / programs?

I'm not the one that replied to your post, not sure why you're directing it at me. I was just clarifying his post.

 

[canislupy]

Pricewise..ddr3 is very competitive with the high end ddr2. IMO, if you want to do a comparison...compare apples to apples...compare ddr3 and ddr2 at the same speeds for pricing. When people say "well I can get 4gb of ddr2-1066 for $200 but 4gb off ddr3-1800 is $800", that's not a very accurate comparison. I give it a year and the pricing will be down where ddr2 is...and ddr2 will cost the same as it does now

Apples to apples DDR2 to DDR3 does not exist and is not fair. What is fair is comparing the comparative base and enthusiast speeds of the two different technologies.

Here is a fair comparison using standard speed 2gb budget, 2gb enthusiast and 4gb enthusiast kits. (limited to newegg.com).

Standard 2GB (standard speed/budget minded)
DDR2: $50 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231098
DDR3: $240 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231150

Enthusiast 2GB (highest speed/latencies)
DDR2: $275 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820313009
DDR3: $540 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820220248

Enthusiast 4GB (highest speed/latencies)
DDR2: $225 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820144115
DDR3: $842 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145190

So, for budget oriented we have 480% cost for DDR3 over DDR2, 196% Enthusiast 2GB and 374% for Enthusiast 4GB.

I realize that DDR3 is new technology, its not bust, its not RAMBUS and we will be going there as we did DDR2. All I am saying is that right now, it is not worth it from both the financial and performance standpoints. Just like DDR2, the introduction of DDR3 is lackluster and expensive. It will improve, but with DRAM prices where they are now, and at the performance level DDR2 is at, DDR3 is just not worth it. (did I just repeat myself?)

 

[gs274]

imo...this is how the comparison should go...and i've got some guys at the shop who agree....

same speed(ish) ddr2
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820313009
same speed(ish) ddr3
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820313002

"comparable speeds" we could go around and around about this all day but, I don't see how comparing ddr2-1300 against ddr3-1866 is an apples to apples comparison...it's more of an apples to...oh, I dunno, let's say...meatloaf comparison.

imo...the guys buying the uber high end ddr3 are the same people who bought the ddr2-1300 and oc'd the piss out of it. they are looking for as much speed as they can get...and ddr3 is where it is at.

I seem to recall having this same discussion about a year ago over the uber expensive uber fast ddr2 when it was just coming out as well...history repeating itself.

That's my opinion and all I have to say on the subject.

 

[canislupy]

imo...the guys buying the uber high end ddr3 are the same people who bought the ddr2-1300 and oc'd the piss out of it. they are looking for as much speed as they can get...and ddr3 is where it is at.

Your first newegg link does not work, returns a whole list of RAM, so I can't tell what DDR2 kit you were comparing to the DDR3 kit.

Here at [H], in case you missed it, there a quite a few people who think apples to apples is the wrong way to go about things, and I for one agree. Top end speeds of DDR2 approach that of DDR3's starting point, so yes, you can spend more on DDR2 than you need to in order to get a raised price vs base speed DDR3, but even still you are looking at a significant price difference between the two with DDR2 dram prices being so low right now.

I think my comparisons as given above are accurate to what both budget minded and enthusiast users would look at for each technology for that segment. It doesn't matter that they are two different MHz speeds, because they both have drastically different speed ranges inherent to their different designs. Base of DDR3 is equal to very fast DDR2, and is not something an enthusiast would be looking at given the faster DDR3 drams available to them. A budget minded buyer will go for DDR2 no matter what based on the insane differences there.

Your quote above agrees with my point for comparing the fastest DDR3 vs the fastest DDR2 for enthusiasts. So you do agree with me?

 

[gs274]

Unfortunately, I'm one of those enthusiasts who does't really take price into considereation. New technology is always expensive...if you want to be on the edge, you either pay for it or don't play in that weight class.

So you do agree with me?

Not in the least...time to move on.

 

[canislupy]

Unfortunately, I'm one of those enthusiasts who does't really take price into considereation. New technology is always expensive...if you want to be on the edge, you either pay for it or don't play in that weight class.

So if you don't take price into consideration and you are a bleeding edge enthusiast then why do you have a problem with a real comparison being between the bleeding edge speeds of the two technologies in question?

 

[Dan_D]

Unfortunately, I'm one of those enthusiasts who does't really take price into considereation. New technology is always expensive...if you want to be on the edge, you either pay for it or don't play in that weight class.

I understand this as I am that way for the most part. Even so I don't waste my money on things that aren't worth the price of admission. For example, I could have jumped on dual 8800Ultra's when the came out, but they weren't worth it to me as I already had 8800GTX's. I could have purchased an X6800 or a QX6850, but didn't feel that they were worth the cost. DDR3, same thing. It doesn't have enough (if any) advantage over DDR2. Until it does, I probably won't bite. Especially since all the DDR3 boards I've tested overclock poorly compared to their DDR2 counterparts.

 

[OofC_S7v7N]

Lets face it if you want to play with the best stuff thats out which is usually the most new technology(ie. if you bought the 8800ultra which was $850 a pop then you are willing to pay) but when it comes to it you only want to invest that much money into a product that will actually pay off, the 780i will not have ddr2 but the 790i will have ddr3? Why make the same motherboard be made to handle two different memory technologies? Do you think that this could be just a holiday rush trying to make money off old technology until the real new chipset is released? Same thing happen last year when they released the 500 series then two months later the 600 series is out? You be the judge is it gonna be worth it to buy a new motherboard for tri-sli and either ddr2 or ddr3 and thats it and maybe a little better overclock?

 

[Dan_D]

Lets face it if you want to play with the best stuff thats out which is usually the most new technology(ie. if you bought the 8800ultra which was $850 a pop then you are willing to pay) but when it comes to it you only want to invest that much money into a product that will actually pay off, the 780i will not have ddr2 but the 790i will have ddr3? Why make the same motherboard be made to handle two different memory technologies? Do you think that this could be just a holiday rush trying to make money off old technology until the real new chipset is released? Same thing happen last year when they released the 500 series then two months later the 600 series is out? You be the judge is it gonna be worth it to buy a new motherboard for tri-sli and either ddr2 or ddr3 and thats it and maybe a little better overclock?

I don't think you understand. The 780i SLI is rumored to be a 680i SLI chipset with the same chips we have now with an added third chip that adds PCIe 2.0 support and additional PCIe lanes. No doubt the board will be different eletrically speaking but beyond that it won't be anything new. Just a refresh of what we have now. The 790i SLI is rumored to be a whole new north bridge and most likely the 790i SLI boards will have the same south bridge as the 680i SLI/780i SLI boards are supposed to have.

As for why they won't do both on one board well it is quite simple really. There isn't enough room on the board to have four DDR2 slots, four DDR3 slots, and a massive chipset that essentially has dual memory controllers integrated into it. You could do two DDR3 slots and two DDR2 slots, but face it, enthusiasts want more memory slots. Modern motherboards can barely fit all the crap they need to on them now component wise. They can't make them larger without creating case compatibility problems for your average DIY builders either.

There may be other engineering challenges that would make DDR2 and DDR3 support more difficult on the same board. Sure there will be some low end boards using VIA or SIS chipsets that will have both DDR2 and DDR3 slots, but those won't be in the same class as the 780/790 SLI boards.

 

[farfromhome]

There may be other engineering challenges that would make DDR2 and DDR3 support more difficult on the same board. Sure there will be some low end boards using VIA or SIS chipsets that will have both DDR2 and DDR3 slots, but those won't be in the same class as the 780/790 SLI boards.

You have completely forgotten Intel chipsets. There are P35 and X38 motherboards with both DDR2 and DDR3 slots, like mine. And some of them (again like mine) have 4 DDR2 slots and 2 DDR3 slots rather than 2 of each (yeah, that gimps the DDR3 a bit, but I figure by the time DDR3 really hits mainstream, 2x2GB or even 2x4GB won't be too expensive anymore). I wouldn't even call the P35 "low end" (upper-midrange likely), but there's no denying that X38 is every bit as high-end as the high-end nVidia chipsets. It's not Intel's fault that AMD isn't producing better high-end video cards to match the Intel chipsets right now.

 

[DustinFrazier]

Hmm I was unaware there was so much 680 hate out there. I love mine. It has worked rock solid for over a year running GTXs in sli and a quad core. It is a great overclocker and still bests or is on par with the brand new boards. I will definitely be sticking with Nvidia chipsets and EVGA in particular for the foreseeable future. 2008 is gonna be an expensive year /cry.

 

[Proxy]

Only advantage 780i has for over most 680i boards is that it runs the retail Yorkfield with an OC and that you can still use DDR2 which is way cheaper then DDR3 which the 790i needs, I think they want to phase out 680i, I really hope 780i will be what 680i should have been from the start

For SLI I still remain sceptic, works fab in some games, sucks in other, also Vista support is still so so , why the hell bother with Tri SLI...

DDR3 for me is still way to expensive and beleive me the marketing machine of Nvidia is running full speed again , soooo many peeps will buy it again... it's best to wait and hold off to buy the latest in hardware ( but I also fall into the trap each time )

If memory serves me, Tri-SLI was nVidias answer to Physics processing. That is the rumor anyway. Nothing to back it up at the moment.

 

[canislupy]

Hmm I was unaware there was so much 680 hate out there. I love mine. It has worked rock solid for over a year running GTXs in sli and a quad core. It is a great overclocker and still bests or is on par with the brand new boards. I will definitely be sticking with Nvidia chipsets and EVGA in particular for the foreseeable future. 2008 is gonna be an expensive year /cry.

You running a sound card or just on-board?

 

[jmackay]

You running a sound card or just on-board?

680i, Vista, Creative X-FI and no problems.

 

[Dan_D]

You have completely forgotten Intel chipsets. There are P35 and X38 motherboards with both DDR2 and DDR3 slots, like mine. And some of them (again like mine) have 4 DDR2 slots and 2 DDR3 slots rather than 2 of each (yeah, that gimps the DDR3 a bit, but I figure by the time DDR3 really hits mainstream, 2x2GB or even 2x4GB won't be too expensive anymore). I wouldn't even call the P35 "low end" (upper-midrange likely), but there's no denying that X38 is every bit as high-end as the high-end nVidia chipsets. It's not Intel's fault that AMD isn't producing better high-end video cards to match the Intel chipsets right now.

No I haven't. This discussion was about NVIDIA chipsets and therefore I felt that Intel chipsets were beyond the scope of the discussion. With that said, Intel has considerably more experience making memory controllers than NVIDIA has. The X38 is probably the best and most feature rich chipset on the market today. Even though it is immature it still beats the 680i SLI for stability and driver quality.

Hmm I was unaware there was so much 680 hate out there. I love mine. It has worked rock solid for over a year running GTXs in sli and a quad core. It is a great overclocker and still bests or is on par with the brand new boards. I will definitely be sticking with Nvidia chipsets and EVGA in particular for the foreseeable future. 2008 is gonna be an expensive year /cry.

There is good reason for all the 680i SLI chipset hate. You won't need to do much research to find out why.

680i, Vista, Creative X-FI and no problems.

You shouldn't have problems today but for the first couple of months the 680i SLI was out there were quite a few problems with audio crackling with both the onboard sound and the Creative X-Fi.

 

[farfromhome]

No I haven't. This discussion was about NVIDIA chipsets and therefore I felt that Intel chipsets were beyond the scope of the discussion.

Then why'd you bring up VIA and SiS? I highly doubt NVIDIA's going to give them a SLI license any time soon either. Though I'm sure if they did, VIA would try to run with it but fall flat on their face, while SiS would stare blankly and continue making bottom-of-the-barrel chipsets.

 

[Dan_D]

Then why'd you bring up VIA and SiS? I highly doubt NVIDIA's going to give them a SLI license any time soon either. Though I'm sure if they did, VIA would try to run with it but fall flat on their face, while SiS would stare blankly and continue making bottom-of-the-barrel chipsets.

Good point.

 

[canislupy]

680i, Vista, Creative X-FI and no problems.

Well I guess you're lucky. I continue to have sound problems on my 680i. If this is fixed in the 780i, it would be worth the upgrade for that alone to me.

 

[Dan_D]

Well I guess you're lucky. I continue to have sound problems on my 680i. If this is fixed in the 780i, it would be worth the upgrade for that alone to me.

You shouldn't still be having X-Fi and 680i SLI issues. NVIDIA corrected them in BIOS P24. The non-reference design boards took quite a bit longer as I recall, but those issues should have all been solved by now.

 

[canislupy]

Like I said, unlucky me. Spec's in sig, P30 bios, latest drivers. Maybe my board just sucks ass... who knows... but I ain't doing shite at this point unless its replacing the whole thing.

 

[DustinFrazier]

"You shouldn't have problems today but for the first couple of months the 680i SLI was out there were quite a few problems with audio crackling with both the onboard sound and the Creative X-Fi"

Yeah I heard about those problems. Guess I was lucky though. I've had mine since day one with either an x-fi or an audigy running the entire time and never experienced that. I dual boot between XP and Vista and never experienced any issues with Vista and SLI.


"Then why'd you bring up VIA and SiS? I highly doubt NVIDIA's going to give them a SLI license any time soon either. Though I'm sure if they did, VIA would try to run with it but fall flat on their face, while SiS would stare blankly and continue making bottom-of-the-barrel chipsets."

lol that was a great mental image

 

[JSpecGC8]

The 680i dying, giving poor overclocks and bad sound quality are what have turned me away from it. I think I am going to an intel chipset with my next mobo, I dont want SLi I really don't need SLi and unless some great game forces you to use SLi to play it, I will not be investing in it.

There are post all over the net of the 680i falling short and not performing properly, there are about a half dozen on this forum alone, with other people posting confirming similar problems.

Take that along with Nvidia telling people that the new CPUs will work with this board only to double back, it has left a very bad taste in my mouth along with others.

The 680 comes out strong but seems to fall short by round 3!!!

 

[Dan_D]

Take that along with Nvidia telling people that the new CPUs will work with this board only to double back, it has left a very bad taste in my mouth along with others.

This is not true. NVIDIA said the 680i SLI boards would support 1333MHz FSB CPUs and never claimed 45nm CPU support. These are two seperate items. 1333MHz Conroe and Kenstfield CPUs do indeed work on the 680i SLI chipset based boards. It is the general public that assumed that quad core ready & 1333MHz FSB CPU support meant 45nm quad core CPUs would be supported.

Even statements made off the cuff by employees in forums should always be taken with a grain of salt. I seriously doubt anyone from Intel or NVIDIAs engineering staff made any such guarantees.

Now ASUS on the other hand stuck 45nm support stickers on the board boxes for the Striker Extreme and P5N32-E SLI/Plus. Though one could argue that since dual core 45nm CPUs are supported that the implied obligation of the sticker has been satisfied.