74% Oppose Taxing Internet News Sites To Help Newspapers

Premise:
Progressive liberals have no logic or moral foundation

Argument:
Liberals would love to bail out the newspapers.
Wouldn't the moral and logical thing to do (for a self-proclaimed liberal) would be to advocate the extinction of newspapers?
They proclaim that CO2 is hazardous and causes global warming.
We all know trees absorb CO2.
So wouldn't you want to save tons of trees by stopping all newspaper outlets? In turn, reversing global warming and saving us all from certain destruction?

Conclusion:
Progressives do not use logic, reason, or morals as a basis for decision making.
They are all about giving themselves more power and control.
This true with both Dems and Repubs (there are progressive liberals in both, but Dems have them out numbered).

The current salary (2010) for rank-and-file members of the House and Senate is $174,000 per year.
Which is right at triple what an average person with a Master's Degree working full time gets paid.

In addition to their ridiculous salaries, they get perks like this:
Via wikipedia:
The Wall Street Journal reported lawmaker trips abroad at taxpayer expense, which included spas, $300-per-night extra unused rooms, shopping excursions, tours of historic buildings, fancy dinners, escorts by military officials, and free flights courtesy of the Air Force. One five-day trip by two senators with wives to Germany included excursions along the Rhine and a heavy metal music concert; the trip cost $70,000, not including travel expenses by the Air Force. Another trip had lawmakers staying at Edinburgh's Sheraton Grand Hotel & Spa, which featured "state-of-the-art spa and leisure facilities including a rooftop indoor/outdoor pool" and with wives eating $40-per-person "traditional English cream tea". The group visited Edinburgh Castle as well as Rosslyn Chapel, which was featured in The Da Vinci Code, and dined at the Rhubarb restaurant described as the "preferred destination for cash-flash celebrities". Afterwards, a lawmaker described the trip in this way: "It was fun." Lawmakers respond that "traveling with spouses compensates for being away from them a lot in Washington" and justify the trips as a way to meet officials in other nations.
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At least they are worried about the deficit and the hardworking taxpayer, right?
 
TexUs said:
Wow, very nice :D

So in a flat tax system (simple tax), 5.84% would be the best tax rate?

That's lower than most SALES taxes, let alone what gets sucked out of my pocket every day.
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I am not saying 5.84% would maximum in a flat tax system. If, in a flat tax system, the GDP were modeled by that function, which it is not I made function up for illustrative purposes, then yes. But reality is much much more complicated and the GDP function has virtually an infinite number if input variables. I was merely trying to illustrate the idea behind maximizing tax revenue so to make the idea that a lower tax rate could plausibly lead to higher tax revenue.

The question what is the exact relationship between tax rate and GDP, ceterius paribus (everything else being equal)?
 
TexUs said:
You know that the goons running things right now are 100000% opposed to an audit? If there was truly nothing to hide, there wouldn't be anything to worry about.

Now, constant audits are a PITA, but being we've never ever done a full audit of the Fed, once every 100 years is too much to ask?
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The irony is they mandate companies get audited all the time... we fall under SOX rules and always have auditors poking around. The government itself would never pass a SOX audit so who are they to mandate things like this?
 
supercross said:
Premise:
Progressive liberals have no logic or moral foundation

Argument:
Liberals would love to bail out the newspapers.
Wouldn't the moral and logical thing to do (for a self-proclaimed liberal) would be to advocate the extinction of newspapers?
They proclaim that CO2 is hazardous and causes global warming.
We all know trees absorb CO2.
So wouldn't you want to save tons of trees by stopping all newspaper outlets? In turn, reversing global warming and saving us all from certain destruction?

Conclusion:
Progressives do not use logic, reason, or morals as a basis for decision making.
They are all about giving themselves more power and control.
This true with both Dems and Repubs (there are progressive liberals in both, but Dems have them out numbered).

The current salary (2010) for rank-and-file members of the House and Senate is $174,000 per year.
Which is right at triple what an average person with a Master's Degree working full time gets paid.

In addition to their ridiculous salaries, they get perks like this:
Via wikipedia:


At least they are worried about the deficit and the hardworking taxpayer, right?
Click to expand...

SOO much this
they take for every to decide any thing but they sure as hell get that raise though every year :rolleyes:

BOTH sides need to go and i dont think its long be for every wakes up and some one does some thing drastic
 
The media in this country is a joke - Both print and TV. Try listening to Keith Olbermann, Glen Beck, Rachel Maddow, Bill O'Reily, Chris Matthews, etc, etc. and tell me that all media (or opinion media) isn't killing off real discussions between people. They insinuate their side is right and anyone that doesn't think the way they do is evil. Those types of 'reporters' are the antithesis of free speech and thought. I love how Keith Olbermann called more than half the voters in Massachussetts complete idiots when they elected Scott Brown for example (http://www.politicususa.com/en/olbermann-scott-brown). I haven't watched MSNBC since that night. If that's what goes for reporting there, even if it's couched as opinion, then I want nothing to do with them.

It's no wonder people are turning away from 'real' news and turning to comedy news (Stewart / Colbert / etc.) instead. If you're going to be subjected to opinionated news that makes you go 'huh?', you may as well laugh while you're at it.
 
complexx said:
All I have to say is WOW. It's pretty much a known fact that the media rarely conveys the honest truth and twists each story to attract more listeners/watchers/readers etc. It simply amazes me that the gov would try to setup programs to help support this nonsense. Why don't they setup a program that will create value within the media, not simply bail them out and enable them to continue their bad practices. Do something to force them to be more honest, force them not to use fear tactics to attract more audiences, force them not to bend over to their advertisers, and get them back to roots of what journalists, news casters, etc. originally wanted to do. But this will never happen.
Click to expand...

Freedom of press means we get the good with the bad. I would never accept any kind of government manipulation of media. Immediately that force would be used for the benefit of the government currently in power.
 
Premise:
Progressive liberals have no logic or moral foundation

Argument:
Liberals would love to bail out the newspapers.
Wouldn't the moral and logical thing to do (for a self-proclaimed liberal) would be to advocate the extinction of newspapers?
They proclaim that CO2 is hazardous and causes global warming.
We all know trees absorb CO2.
So wouldn't you want to save tons of trees by stopping all newspaper outlets? In turn, reversing global warming and saving us all from certain destruction?

Conclusion:
Progressives do not use logic, reason, or morals as a basis for decision making.
They are all about giving themselves more power and control.
This true with both Dems and Repubs (there are progressive liberals in both, but Dems have them out numbered).

The current salary (2010) for rank-and-file members of the House and Senate is $174,000 per year.
Which is right at triple what an average person with a Master's Degree working full time gets paid.

In addition to their rediculous salaries, they get perks like this:
Via wikipedia:
The Wall Street Journal reported lawmaker trips abroad at taxpayer expense, which included spas, $300-per-night extra unused rooms, shopping excursions, tours of historic buildings, fancy dinners, escorts by military officials, and free flights courtesy of the Air Force. One five-day trip by two senators with wives to Germany included excursions along the Rhine and a heavy metal music concert; the trip cost $70,000, not including travel expenses by the Air Force. Another trip had lawmakers staying at Edinburgh's Sheraton Grand Hotel & Spa, which featured "state-of-the-art spa and leisure facilities including a rooftop indoor/outdoor pool" and with wives eating $40-per-person "traditional English cream tea". The group visited Edinburgh Castle as well as Rosslyn Chapel, which was featured in The Da Vinci Code, and dined at the Rhubarb restaurant described as the "preferred destination for cash-flash celebrities". Afterwards, a lawmaker described the trip in this way: "It was fun." Lawmakers respond that "traveling with spouses compensates for being away from them a lot in Washington" and justify the trips as a way to meet officials in other nations.
Click to expand...

At least they are worried about the deficit and the hardworking taxpayer, right?
 
complexx said:
Yeah, free speech is bending over and taking it in the rear end for your advertisers because they threaten to pull their business if you don't. The media is not in existence because of their right to free speech. They are still kicking because theres still a dime to be maid by big companies via advertising.
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Good point. Wouldn't want the truth getting in the way of their big bucks, whether from big businesses or big government. If something is taxed, it can also be regulated. I seem to remember recently some in government wanting blogs and stuff shut down. They don't want freedom of information. Thats how we learn about all their debauchery like over printing money - which is the biggest tax of all that nobody seems to even realize.... ever time they print money the cash in your pocket or savings account is worth a little less...hows that for robbery? Can you print your own money? No. Can you come up with your own form of currency actually backed by precious metal? No. This is criminal behaviour by the government... once people figure it out a lot of heads are going to roll. So, naturally they want to tax and control the media.
 
Old_Way said:
The media in this country is a joke - Both print and TV. Try listening to Keith Olbermann, Glen Beck, Rachel Maddow, Bill O'Reily, Chris Matthews, etc, etc. and tell me that all media (or opinion media) isn't killing off real discussions between people. They insinuate their side is right and anyone that doesn't think the way they do is evil. Those types of 'reporters' are the antithesis of free speech and thought. I love how Keith Olbermann called more than half the voters in Massachussetts complete idiots when they elected Scott Brown for example (http://www.politicususa.com/en/olbermann-scott-brown). I haven't watched MSNBC since that night. If that's what goes for reporting there, even if it's couched as opinion, then I want nothing to do with them.
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The media is slick about it in that they don't really differentiate between opinion and "real" news. They look the same, talk the same... oh sure, maybe there's some very fine print somewhere.... I think they do this intentionally to confuse people so they just absorb everything as fact (loosely used, of course), when its actually opinion.
 
plain and simply, you start taxing, it means less internet traffic, it means bye bye, I rather see it free. Their ads pays their site anyways.
 
Ibanezfoo said:
The media is slick about it in that they don't really differentiate between opinion and "real" news.
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QFT. I've got to say Beck's Arguing with Idiots book is good though, because he does actually provide references in the bank for all his stats and whatnot. That's something not done when watching him live though. I personally don't like him live, myself... He's a better writer than speaker.
 
1 said:
Freedom of press means we get the good with the bad. I would never accept any kind of government manipulation of media. Immediately that force would be used for the benefit of the government currently in power.
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OMG come out of the basement! The whole point is your not getting the good with the bad. Your not getting unbiased reporting. Your not even getting a small percentage of whats actually going on. Your getting what scores browny points with advertisers. Your getting extremely biased opinions because your news channel is party associated. Your getting shock and awe news (usually related dying babies, or foods that help to reduce or promote cancer, this is all bullshit) just to get people to watch a specific news cast. Your getting censorship of defective products becaues the manufacturer is a sponsor or advertiser. I'm not saying the government should step in and oversee whats going on and say you can and can't report on this. I don't think ANYONE in their right mind would ask for the government to do this. I'm saying, it would be nice if there was a way (not necesarily government) to keep everyone honest. Thats all I'm saying.
 
complexx said:
OMG come out of the basement! The whole point is your not getting the good with the bad. Your not getting unbiased reporting. Your not even getting a small percentage of whats actually going on. Your getting what scores browny points with advertisers. Your getting extremely biased opinions because your news channel is party associated. Your getting shock and awe news (usually related dying babies, or foods that help to reduce or promote cancer, this is all bullshit) just to get people to watch a specific news cast. Your getting censorship of defective products becaues the manufacturer is a sponsor or advertiser. I'm not saying the government should step in and oversee whats going on and say you can and can't report on this. I don't think ANYONE in their right mind would ask for the government to do this. I'm saying, it would be nice if there was a way (not necesarily government) to keep everyone honest. Thats all I'm saying.
Click to expand...

Sucks, but it isn't going to happen.
 
I do not seem to recall the the taxing of newspapers to help out internet news sites...
 
complexx said:
Your getting what scores browny points with advertisers.
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I'd rather that than what scores points with the government.

Let's say Obama told a fellow White House staff member "screw the Constitution, I'm just in this office to make money and further my personal agenda". Big news topic, right?

A government-run media outlet isn't going to allow that to be published.
Just about any free outlet will, especially if they have the exclusive proof of it... Huge increase in ad revenue.

Sorry but your system would only work in a completely honest world. Honesty and Washington don't mix.

Kalabalana said:
I do not seem to recall the the taxing of newspapers to help out internet news sites...
Click to expand...
QFT
 
And heck, even revenue aside, there's plenty of outlets that would report on it because it IS news. Not everything is run strictly with money as a motivator. But I think we can all agree such a story wouldn't hurt your business, only help it...
 
stupid people need to learn how to manage their monies. don't pay writers tons of money you can't afford, then you will be ok. who said being a writer for a single company should be a full time job?
 
Nanan said:
The 16th Amendment was never ratified, it was in fact voted down yet it some how got put into law when Congress was on break...
Click to expand...

Never heard that one before. I'll have to look that theory up...
Upon briefly looking at it there's all kinds of conspiracy theories... I'll have to do some looking into it.
 
Income tax goes to pay debt on the Federal reserve which is a private organization that prints American dollars with no oversight and on an interest rate.

For example the federal reserve prints 1million bucks and charges a 2% interest rate on the printed money. So we have to pay back 1.02 million back but since only 1 million has been printed we need to ask to fed to print us another 20,000 so we can pay our debt to them but that additional 20,000 also comes with a 2% interest rate.......Thus perpetual debt that can never be paid off. This is why Income tax continues to go up and will never go down, and we will never pay off our debt because it is impossible.

I could go on and on about this but for some reason people refuse to believe that our government is stupid enough to put them selfs in this situation, so there is little point.
 
TexUs said:
Never heard that one before. I'll have to look that theory up...
Upon briefly looking at it there's all kinds of conspiracy theories... I'll have to do some looking into it.
Click to expand...

Its true. More accurately, different states ratified different versions of the 16th Amendment. So legally, it is null and void.
 
stevedave said:
Income tax goes to pay debt on the Federal reserve which is a private organization that prints American dollars with no oversight and on an interest rate.

For example the federal reserve prints 1million bucks and charges a 2% interest rate on the printed money. So we have to pay back 1.02 million back but since only 1 million has been printed we need to ask to fed to print us another 20,000 so we can pay our debt to them but that additional 20,000 also comes with a 2% interest rate.......Thus perpetual debt that can never be paid off. This is why Income tax continues to go up and will never go down, and we will never pay off our debt because it is impossible.

I could go on and on about this but for some reason people refuse to believe that our government is stupid enough to put them selfs in this situation, so there is little point.
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Also fake paper money.... backed by nothing...;)
 
complexx said:
The whole point is you're not getting the good with the bad. You're not getting unbiased reporting. You're not even getting a small percentage of whats actually going on. You're getting what scores brownie points with advertisers. You're getting extremely biased opinions because your news channel is party associated. You're getting shock and awe news (usually related dying babies, or foods that help to reduce or promote cancer, this is all bullshit) just to get people to watch a specific news cast. You're getting censorship of defective products because the manufacturer is a sponsor or advertiser.
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Ah, I see the problem here. You think there exists the possibility of a non biased news source.

If it leans to the left, it is biased left. If it leans to the right, it is biased right. If it sits in center, then it is biased to the center. Biased means showing only from one perspective. To be completely unbiased a news source would need to be equally biased in all areas. Of course that is a contradiction.

What we can do is try to get news from multiple sources and try to filter out the truth from our own bias and personal perspective in receiving the information. Part of that means being aware of the bias from the source and part that means knowing our own bias.
 
stevedave said:
Income tax goes to pay debt on the Federal reserve which is a private organization that prints American dollars with no oversight and on an interest rate.

For example the federal reserve prints 1million bucks and charges a 2% interest rate on the printed money. So we have to pay back 1.02 million back but since only 1 million has been printed we need to ask to fed to print us another 20,000 so we can pay our debt to them but that additional 20,000 also comes with a 2% interest rate.......Thus perpetual debt that can never be paid off. This is why Income tax continues to go up and will never go down, and we will never pay off our debt because it is impossible.

I could go on and on about this but for some reason people refuse to believe that our government is stupid enough to put them selfs in this situation, so there is little point.
Click to expand...

I'm fairly certain that's not how the Fed works. :confused:
 
HOCP4ME said:
I'm fairly certain that's not how the Fed works. :confused:
Click to expand...

Good for you, going into this more will hijack the thread and you will never be convinced.

But without Hijacking the thread what do you think controls the prime interest rate?
 
stevedave said:
For example the federal reserve prints 1million bucks and charges a 2% interest rate on the printed money. So we have to pay back 1.02 million back but since only 1 million has been printed we need to ask to fed to print us another 20,000 so we can pay our debt to them but that additional 20,000 also comes with a 2% interest rate.......Thus perpetual debt that can never be paid off. This is why Income tax continues to go up and will never go down, and we will never pay off our debt because it is impossible.
Click to expand...
eh, you apparently watched the various internet videos but are confusing a lot of information. Essentially we ask the fed for money. it provides the money and sells bonds. The interest is what gets paid to people buying the bonds. Most of our actual money supply is "loaned". Each dollar put in a bank can add 10 dollars to the economy. True, lots of voodoo economics there.
 
jiminator said:
eh, you apparently watched the various internet videos but are confusing a lot of information. Essentially we ask the fed for money. it provides the money and sells bonds. The interest is what gets paid to people buying the bonds. Most of our actual money supply is "loaned". Each dollar put in a bank can add 10 dollars to the economy. True, lots of voodoo economics there.
Click to expand...

Not confusion, just keeping it simple. There are many ways in which money is obtained but only 1 way it is actually created and that is printing which is almost entirely done by the Fed. On a simple and basic level Fed prints money and loans it banks at 2% then banks loan it to People at 7%. The Fed keeps "control" over the economy by altering what they loan this money to banks. The Fed drops the rate to the banks to 0% which lowers what the banks charge to the people to 5%.

The whole picture involves much more but this is the easiest to grasp and explain.
 
HOCP4ME said:
Taxing new technology to subsidize old technology? That's completely backwards if you ask me.





Come on guys...the Sixteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution gives the federal government power to collect an income tax. Hard to call something unconstitutional that's specifically allowed in the Constitution.

Don't like it, repeal the Sixteenth (and get rid of the Seventeenth too while you're at it).
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Yea. Too bad the supreme court ruled that the 16th amendment gave the IRS no new powers of taxation. I.E. They didn't have it before and they didn't have it after. Look it up. It's the law. Even the IRS tax code classifies income tax as a voluntary tax. Only the State has the power to tax your income. You do know that State>Federal is how it was supposed to work right. The federal government assumed this power by force. All under the guise of ending slavery. Now, it's only OK to have slaves if they make our T-Shirts and live in another country.:rolleyes:
 
jiminator said:
eh, you apparently watched the various internet videos but are confusing a lot of information. Essentially we ask the fed for money. it provides the money and sells bonds. The interest is what gets paid to people buying the bonds. Most of our actual money supply is "loaned". Each dollar put in a bank can add 10 dollars to the economy. True, lots of voodoo economics there.
Click to expand...

M3 is no longer published, nor does the money multipler concept always actually work since no economies are closed systems. If it always did work, then the fed could just cut the reserve requirement and interest rates and essentially pump 100 trillion dollars in the economy and everyone would be rich beyond their wildest dreams.
 
BallerX said:
Yea. Too bad the supreme court ruled that the 16th amendment gave the IRS no new powers of taxation. I.E. They didn't have it before and they didn't have it after. Look it up. It's the law. Even the IRS tax code classifies income tax as a voluntary tax. Only the State has the power to tax your income. You do know that State>Federal is how it was supposed to work right. The federal government assumed this power by force. All under the guise of ending slavery. Now, it's only OK to have slaves if they make our T-Shirts and live in another country.:rolleyes:
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What idiot justices made that ruling? The Sixteenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States:

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.
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"The Congress:" that's part of the federal government.

You don't like, I don't like, but it's there: to change it, we'll either have to amend the Constitution, or ignore it.

stevedave said:
Good for you, going into this more will hijack the thread and you will never be convinced.

But without Hijacking the thread what do you think controls the prime interest rate?
Click to expand...

The Fed. They control the interest rate to regulate the money supply as well as velocity of exchange. Lower rates encourage growth and job creation, but cause inflation. Higher rates curb growth as well as inflation. The Fed uses (is supposed to use) this regulatory power to smooth out business cycles, lowering rates during recessions and raising them during periods of growth.

We don't "owe" the Fed anything, and income tax has nothing to do with it at all.
 
^ Pseudo-edit: basically the Feds job is to keep our currency stable and regulate its level, since it isn't currently backed by anything. They took the place of gold and other physical backings.
 
HOCP4ME said:
^ Pseudo-edit: basically the Feds job is to keep our currency stable and regulate its level, since it isn't currently backed by anything. They took the place of gold and other physical backings.
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Thats an interesting take on it, and I can prove it wrong in many ways but E-debates always result in 2 losers so I'll pass.
 
eh, I think most of us would agree that our money supply, our debt and obligations mean that the future of this country is pretty screwed.
 
1 said:
........100 trillion dollars in the economy and everyone would be rich beyond their wildest dreams.
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The number of dollars does not indicate actual purchasing power.... ;) Bread used to be a nickel, now its 3 bucks. The bread didn't change, the value of the dollar lessened....
 
HOCP4ME said:
You don't like, I don't like, but it's there: to change it, we'll either have to amend the Constitution, or ignore it.
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Ignore it. It wasn't ratified legally anyway.... the one you posted is not the version other states ratified so its not a legal amendment. Of course the government is ignoring it, they have bombs to drop on poor countries and expensive cars and houses to buy that we need to "do our part" and help pay for. We're all being suckered.
 
Ibanezfoo said:
Ignore it. It wasn't ratified legally anyway.... the one you posted is not the version other states ratified so its not a legal amendment.
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You can't deny that, technicalities aside, all states were going to ratify an income tax document regardless.

I'm as big for government crookedness as anyone, but face the facts... Even if that was struck down Congress would immediately pass a new one anyway.
 
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