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6200 modable?

D

dderidex

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 31, 2001
Messages
6,328
Interesting point from the previews....the 6200 IS NOT using a new core design like the FX 5200 was (FX 5200 = nv34, FX 5600 = nv31, FX 5800 = nv30). The 6200 is using the nv43, exactly like the 6600 - just with a quad disabled and the color/z-compression disabled.

Nobody remembers the Radeon 7000LE? Same deal, ATI's 'HyperZ' disabled, simple registry tweak 'fixed' it.

What if the pipelines on this could be enabled? And the color/z-compression?

One wonders about the moddability of this - BIOS flash fix things? RivaTuner mod capable of turning things back on?

Interesting possibilities! The low core and memory clocks will hold things back, but if this really IS the 5200 replacement (no reason to think not), we'll be seeing sub-$100 cards at launch, and cards down to $50 or so in short order. To get 6600 performance at that price point?
 
It should be modable, hopefully nV takes the easy route and does it through bios and not at the hardware level. Well the 64 bit version will defintily be dirt cheap, the 128 bit around 100 bucks, these are really good cards for entry level.
 
the 6800nu is softmod'able so I would think they (RivaTuner) could probably enable it.

Though in the long run they may end up using a different core for it, just like ATI used a different core for the 9500Pro than the original 9500. Short-term to get a product out the door, they sometimes do this. In fact it could be taping out now... and they just used the 6600 core for preview samples.

But long term for dies per wafer, they often refine it and use the new core. (wait and see) You get the same exact performance and the end user would never know the difference.
 
Though in the long run they may end up using a different core for it, just like ATI used a different core for the 9500Pro than the original 9500. Short-term to get a product out the door, they sometimes do this. In fact it could be taping out now... and they just used the 6600 core for preview samples.
Click to expand...

Actually, no, the 9500 and 9500 Pro used the same core throughout - same core as the 9700, actually.

The difference between the 9500 and 9500 Pro was the PCB. The 9500s launched using the Radeon 9700 PCB, while the 9500 Pros all had their own with just 128-bit access to memory. Since they needed all 8 pipes to memory for the chip, just 128-bit access instead of 256-bit access, they needed a new PCB that was 16bits per pipe instead of 32.

The 'regular' 9500 could use the 9700 PCB since they were cutting in half both the pipes and bus width. If the regular 9700 was 8 pipes at 256 bit (32bits per pixel pipeline) and they needed 4 pipes at 128 bit, they could just cut the number of pixel pipelines in half by disabling them in the card's BIOS - although they'd still be on the card. So the regular 9500 was 32 bits per pipe and the 9500 Pro was 16 bits per pipe to memory.

Eventually, of course, ATI launched the Radeon 9600 series as a lower-cost alternative to the 9700, and ditched the 9500 line entirely - using those cores for more 9700s. It's never cost effective to have your top-end GPU being used in 'budget' cards to fill a whole in your manufacturing scheme. (Which is why the 6800nus will be going the way of the dinosaur very shortly)

Since nVidia ISN'T using their high-end GPU in their budget line - just a slightly higher-level budget chip...dunno, maybe we'll see this one stick around?
 
dderidex said:
Actually, no, the 9500 and 9500 Pro used the same core throughout - same core as the 9700, actually.

The difference between the 9500 and 9500 Pro was the PCB. The 9500s launched using the Radeon 9700 PCB, while the 9500 Pros all had their own with just 128-bit access to memory. Since they needed all 8 pipes to memory for the chip, just 128-bit access instead of 256-bit access, they needed a new PCB that was 16bits per pipe instead of 32.

The 'regular' 9500 could use the 9700 PCB since they were cutting in half both the pipes and bus width. If the regular 9700 was 8 pipes at 256 bit (32bits per pixel pipeline) and they needed 4 pipes at 128 bit, they could just cut the number of pixel pipelines in half by disabling them in the card's BIOS - although they'd still be on the card. So the regular 9500 was 32 bits per pipe and the 9500 Pro was 16 bits per pipe to memory.

Eventually, of course, ATI launched the Radeon 9600 series as a lower-cost alternative to the 9700, and ditched the 9500 line entirely - using those cores for more 9700s. It's never cost effective to have your top-end GPU being used in 'budget' cards to fill a whole in your manufacturing scheme. (Which is why the 6800nus will be going the way of the dinosaur very shortly)

Since nVidia ISN'T using their high-end GPU in their budget line - just a slightly higher-level budget chip...dunno, maybe we'll see this one stick around?
Click to expand...

oh, I though they used a new core and new PCB. I knew whether or not you could mod into a 9700 hinged on the PCB (L shaped, etc) but I thought they had changed the core also. Damn, I guess I dont know EvERYTHING!?
 
The same possibility was suggested in the Tech Report preview. For those who haven't read their article on the 6200:
The GeForce 6200 GPU is manufactured by TSMC on a 0.11-micron fabrication process. The die measures 12mm x 13mm according to my tape measure, making it identical in size to the NV43 GPU that powers the GeForce 6600. Isn't that interesting? When we asked NVIDIA for the 6200's code name according to the "NV4x" convention, the company would only say the chip was a "derivative" of the NV43. It's entirely possible that the GeForce 6200 GPU is simply an NV43 with four pixel pipes and Intellisample color and Z-compression disabled. If this is the case, we may see enterprising enthusiasts attempt to unlock the extra pipelines with hardware or software modifications.
Click to expand...

Consider this. The following two images are reference boards for the 6200 and the 6600. (Don't cheat and look at the filenames. ;) )

6600-ref.jpg


6200-ref.jpg


Which is which? Is there a physical difference?



(Zooming in, I can actually see that the number that follows "10225" underneath the nVidia logo in the upper-left-hand corner is different between the two. I haven't spotted any other differences yet.)

My spider sense tells me it's a BIOS change.

Oh, and just so you know that I'm not talking BS, here are the sources for my images:

Beyond3d
Hexus.net
 
tornadotsunamilife said:
i can't see any physical changes. most probably a BIOS change
Click to expand...
Seems like, but....wow, that's weird.

If it really is *exactly* like the 6600, but with just one quad disabled....why give it a whole new model number? Why not just '6600LE' or whatever?

Course, the .11u process *is* new - perhaps this product was a 'last minute' idea to recover some otherwise 'unusuable' chips from the 6600 production line? IE., 'half' the quad fails the test, and they can still sell it as a 6200?

In any case, lots of interesting questions surrounding this product.
 
ITs not a last minute decision to use bad chips. IT might be a rush to market with mid range modified to lowend. But the lowend is where most of their volume is. Ex: the GF4MX was one of the most popular card ever sold. (GF2MX also very popular). The reason is most people dont need high end, casual gaming is good enough. So the highend for the glory and to win the hearts of the technogeeks who are the big buyers and "recommenders" to buyers. Then lowend for volume/OEM sales.
 
Unwinder (RivaTuner's creator) posted this in response to my thread on this topic @ Guru3d:
Unwinder said:
Actually, RT already provides NV40-styled pipeline control in the NVStrap for both NV41 and NV43 families, so pixel/vertex units can be already enabled/disabled on any NV43 based board. I've also identified 4 more configuration bits in NV43's GPU configuration register (besides pixel/vertex unit bits). Now I know what do they stand for :)
Click to expand...

NIIIIICE.

These 6200s may be the ticket to killer performance at next-to-nothing cost.
 
The only thing that kinda sucks is that the 6200 will only be sold as a PCI-e part. But I guess when this card hits mainstream, there will be more PCI-e motherboards out there...
 
thefordmccord said:
The only thing that kinda sucks is that the 6200 will only be sold as a PCI-e part. But I guess when this card hits mainstream, there will be more PCI-e motherboards out there...
Click to expand...

Are there any out right now that aren't half the cost of a Cray?
 
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