$600 AMD Gaming PC

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Banana King

Weaksauce
Joined
Aug 14, 2006
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Thanks for taking the time to review this build. I'm still hesitant in deciding on a motherboard (probably going to be a sub $100 gigabyte board) and graphics card ( most likely between the 8600GT and 8600GTS).

Parts List For First Build Rig:

COOLER MASTER RC-690 Case
Western Digital Caviar SE WD800JD 80GB 7200rpm
LITE-ON Black IDE DVD-ROM Drive
Rosewill 600W SLI Ready-ATX12V V2.01 Power Supply
Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound (Not Sure If needed)
ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 64 Pro 92mm CPU Cooler
AMD Athlon 64 X2 5000+ Black Edition
Mushkin 2 x 1GB DDR2 800 RAM

Total = $396.36 (God Bless NewEgg) Not Counting $45 Of Mail-In Rebates

So... Looking to spend about $200 on graphics card and motherboard. Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated.
 
Rather than go with a step by step critique of your system, I'm just going to post an alternative Intel build list:

Intel Core 2 Duo E4500 CPU - $122
Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L Intel P35 Motherboard - $86
G.SKILL F2-6400CL5D-2GBNQ 2 x 1GB DDR2 800 RAM - $50
Sapphire 100199L Radeon X1950GT 256MB PCI-E Video Card - $113
Western Digital WD1600AAJS 160GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - $50
LITE-ON LH-20A1S 20X DVD±R SATA DVD Burner - $29
Corsair 450VX 450W PSU - $70
Cooler Master RC-690-KKN1-GP ATX Case - $70
----
Total: $590 Plus tax and shipping.

Highlights of the Intel build:
- The E4500 and X2 5000+ perform on par with each other. However, with just the stock HSF alone, you can easily OC that E4500 to 3.0 to 3.2Ghz. And clock for clock, the E4500 will beat that X2 5000+
- Better quality power supply. Rosewill don't make/rebrand/select very good power supplies. The Corsair 450VX is made by Seasonic and offers just as much as power as that Rosewill PSU on the +12V rail, 33A versus the 35A for the Rosewill. That's kind of pathetic that a 450W PSU has almost as much power as a supposed 600W PSU. In fact that's a sure sign of the PSU's lower quality.
- Bigger hard drive 160GB > 80GB
- Better and faster video card than the 8600GT and almost on par with the 8600GTS, the x1950GT
- SATA DVD burner for a cleaner case and easy cable management.


Though if you still want to go AMD, then go with this setup:

AMD Athlon64 X2 5000+ Black Edition CPU - $122
Biostar TF560+ Nvidia nForce 560 Motherboard - $80
Arctic Cooling Freezer 64 Pro HSF - $22
G.SKILL F2-6400CL5D-2GBNQ 2 x 1GB DDR2 800 RAM - $50
Sapphire 100199L Radeon X1950GT 256MB PCI-E Video Card - $113
Western Digital WD1600AAJS 160GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - $50
LITE-ON LH-20A1S 20X DVD±R SATA DVD Burner - $29
Corsair 450VX 450W PSU - $70
Cooler Master RC-690-KKN1-GP ATX Case - $70
---
Total: $606 Plus tax and shipping.

Puts you over about $16 over the Intel build but you still get a very good system.
 
why would you recomend a RV570 or crippled R580?

get an HD 3850 or 3870! the 3850 is priced at eye level with the 8600GT and it smacks it around in every game at any resolution. The 3870 does underperform the 8800GT (which it is often compared to) but they arn't in the same bracket. If you can make the leap to 8800GT, go for it, but if you cant, you need to look HD3 from the red team. Here are the hard numbers between the two cards if you wish to see them.

edit: But I seem to be mistaken, I thought the 3850s aimed at something like $150 or $140, but its more like $170. Still I think its the best value.

And a few weeks ago I was in this PSU thread and rosewill PSUs were brought up to which I gave a post much like yours: "rosewills crap, get something outsourced to a decent company such as seasonic, channel well or PC P&C). But the rosewill Xtreme series clings to its voltages like a hobo to an x-mas turkey and does it while staying in spec ripple wise. Not bad.
 
Well true, that Rosewill PSU did do well. But frankly I'm not too sure of the quality of that particular Rosewill PSU. 35A on the +12V rail for a 600W PSU? Come on!

Though yes, I should stop making blanket statements like that about Rosewill.

Also, the HD 3850 was never in the price range of the 8600GT. Its MSRP is $179.
 
I agree, ditch the Rosewill 600W unless its a known good unit (part of the Extreme series, but I doubt it is, as Danny explained) and go for the HD3850 over the 8600GTS.

Oh, and you'd be better off with the Intel build, from Danny's post.
 
What are the advantages to going Intel versus going AMD? Does it really just depend upon what one wants to do with the system?
 
Comparing the two build lists I made above, the AMD and Intel builds perform about the same or on par with one another at stock speeds. However, like I said earlie:
However, with just the stock HSF alone, you can easily OC that E4500 to 3.0 to 3.2Ghz. And clock for clock, the E4500 will beat that X2 5000+
Click to expand...

In addition to easy/high overclocks, the Intel build, or rather tha mobo, is compatible with Intel's new Penryn CPUs, faster and more refined versions of current C2D CPUs that should be even better overclockers as well.

However if you don't want to OC and not get more performance for your money, then go with the AMD build. AMD does need all the support it can get....
 
The main reasons why I am considering the 5000+ for my first build are due to its unlocked multipliers (ergo a high overclocking potential), price tag and raving reviews by owners. Apparently, it can be overclocked to 3.1ghz without changing the stock voltage and still runs fairly cool (65nm compared to 90nm). I am really just seeking a system that will not only last a while, but will be capable of playing some newer games on at least medium settings. Building this rig is essentially aimed at providing a learning experience, should I choose to pursue computer building as a hobby.

I'm not quite as well informed about Intel's products, but have read your build reviews in other threads (and the specs of the rig in your signature) and have decided that you seem pretty savvy on the topic of building in general. For this reason, I will definitely consider going Intel over AMD, but still need a bit more incentive.
 
Oh cool, You're doing your own research.

Anyway, a 3.1Ghz OC at stock voltages is pretty good for the X2 5000+ However like I said earlier, clock for clock, an Intel C2D CPU, even at stock speeds, is faster. Here check out these links:
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3112&p=11
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3112&p=14

Note the clock speeds of the X2 5000+ and E4500, 2.6Ghz and 2.2Ghz respectively. However, despite being higher clocked, the X2 5000+ barely performs as well as the E4500. In the second link above, we can see that it takes a X2 5000+ OC'd at 2.8Ghz in order to beat the 2.2Ghz E4500. But look at what happens when you OC the E4500 to 3.12Ghz. See the big jump in performance? Considering that it takes a 2.8Ghz OC of the X2 5000+ to beat the 2.2Ghz E4500, imagine how high you have to OC that X2 5000+ to beat the E4500 at 3.12Ghz? And the E4500 can OC even higher if you have a better HSF. I've seen E4500 OC'd @ 3.2 to 3.4Ghz.

And remember, that the E4500 in that article was OC'd with the stock HSF.
 
Wow, those Intels are looking much better now (especially the E6550). Just one question though - I'd be going with the 5000+ Black Edition if I were to go AMD at all. The benchmarks in the links are merely labeled "5000+". Would there be any performance difference between the generic 5000+ and the Black Edition? The only major differences that I am aware of are the lack of provided cooler for the Black Edition and unlocked multipliers.
 
Banana King said:
Would there be any performance difference between the generic 5000+ and the Black Edition? The only major differences that I am aware of are the lack of provided cooler for the Black Edition and unlocked multipliers.
Click to expand...

That's the only differences actually.

Yes the E6550 is a good CPU but it's a bit out of your budget by $55 or so and it's a much harder CPU to OC due to it's 7x multiplier.
 
In that case, I'll probably just ignore the E6550. By the way, the E4600 is still somewhat in my price range - what are the multipliers like on that compared to the E4400? I'd imagine that the performance difference would not be that significant between the two, regardless.
 
The E4400 has a 10x Multiplier, costs $135 @ newegg.com
The E4500 has a 11x Multiplier, costs $122 @ mwave.com
The E4600 had a 12x Multiplier, costs $139 @ mwave.com

I recommend going with the E4500. An 11x multiplier is already pretty high and costs $17 cheaper than the E4600. You'll most likely won't see a higher OC performance with the E4600. Maybe a slight bump at stock speeds with the E4600 over the E4500. So the E4500 is the better buy.
 
Okay, thanks for the help. It will probably be a toss-up between the E4500 and E4600, but the Black Edition's price is still pretty enticing. Through NewEgg's customer reviews, it appears that Intel motherboards tend to have better reputations than those made for AMD chipsets (certainly a relief for me). What motherboard would you recommend, and is the ease in overclocking an Intel on par with AMD's models?

Oh yeah, and thanks for the link to mwave.com - never heard of it before, but it seems like a decent site to buy from.
 
Banana King said:
In that case, I'll probably just ignore the E6550. By the way, the E4600 is still somewhat in my price range - what are the multipliers like on that compared to the E4400? I'd imagine that the performance difference would not be that significant between the two, regardless.
Click to expand...
Formulas for Intel platform @ 1:1 settings: (base FSB speed is SDR, or single data rate)
c × [Base FSB speed] = CPU Clock speed (c = CPU Multiplier)
2 × [Base FSB speed] = RAM speed (DDR: double data rate)
4 × [Base FSB speed] = Effective FSB speed (QDR: quad data rate)

On Intel platforms, running the RAM higher than a 1:1 ratio with the CPU is, for the most part, useless, so don't bother trying to do so. If the BIOS does it for you, just let it. All you need is a 1:1 config, though. Here's some possible clock speeds (as always with OC'ing, your results will vary):

E4500: 11 × 200 = 2.2Ghz, DDR2-400 << STOCK speeds
E4500: 11 × 266 = 2.9Ghz, DDR2-533 << Easy OC
E4500: 11 × 333 = 3.3Ghz, DDR2-667 << Great OC
E4500: 10 × 400 = 4.4Ghz, DDR2-667 << Impossible, IMO; it may be with WC'ing??

E4600: 12 × 200 = 2.4Ghz, DDR2-400 << STOCK speeds
E4600: 12 × 266 = 3.2Ghz, DDR2-533 << Easy OC
E4600: 12 × 333 = 4.0Ghz, DDR2-667 << Impossible, IMO; it may be with WC'ing??

EDIT: jeez, me slow today... :rolleyes:

Banana King said:
Okay, thanks for the help. It will probably be a toss-up between the E4500 and E4600, but the Black Edition's price is still pretty enticing. Through NewEgg's customer reviews, it appears that Intel motherboards tend to have better reputations than those made for AMD chipsets (certainly a relief for me). What motherboard would you recommend, and is the ease in overclocking an Intel on par with AMD's models?
Click to expand...

Danny's got a whole list that he should be posting soon. I like the Gigabyte DS series (DS3L, DS3R, DS3P, DS4). OC'ing an Intel Core2 has always been easier than OC'ing any AMD.

And yes, mwave is a good site.
 
Mobos that are within your budget:
Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L Intel P35 Motherboard - $86
Abit IP35-E Intel P35 Motherboard - $90

But for the hell of it here are some other good mobos:
Abit IP35 Intel P35 Motherboard - $120
Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3R Intel P35 Motherboard - $130
Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3P Intel P35 Motherboard - $145
Abit IP35 Pro Intel P35 Motherboard - $168
Gigabyte GA-P35-DS4 Intel P35 Motherboard - $175

Yes Abit and Gigabyte do dominate the list a bit but those are some of the best mobos out there IMO.
 
Thanks so much for the help, guys. I will probably be posting a final parts list within the next month or so, but this definitely helped me on my way. Now my main goal is just deciding on a decent motherboard, changing my PSU from that horrific Rosewill (probably to the Corsair as Danny recommended) and maybe pricing out a few after-market coolers.

Thanks again for your help.
 
There is one potential advantage with going AMD. Intel's next processors, Nehalem, will need a new mother board and DDR3. AMD's next design, AM3, is suppose to be backwards compatible with most AM2 motherboards, and it will work with either DDR2 or DD3. So going with AMD has the potential to save you the cost of a motherboard and memory when you upgrade next.
 
Since he's building this for gaming, don't you guys think it'd be better to drop 30-40$ or so off the CPU and add that to the video card? That way, if he goes with the Intel setup or drops the aftermarket cooler on the AMD rig you suggested he'll be in the pricerange for a 3850.

Also, with the 40$ rebate on that case, if he isn't strictly limited to a 600$ budget, he could go as much as 40$ over for now, and still be within his budget if he's willing to pay a little more up front.
 
Andrew_Carr said:
Since he's building this for gaming, don't you guys think it'd be better to drop 30-40$ or so off the CPU and add that to the video card? That way, if he goes with the Intel setup or drops the aftermarket cooler on the AMD rig you suggested he'll be in the pricerange for a 3850.

Also, with the 40$ rebate on that case, if he isn't strictly limited to a 600$ budget, he could go as much as 40$ over for now, and still be within his budget if he's willing to pay a little more up front.
Click to expand...

The OP would still have to make the full payment up front -- and if he doesn't have the money right now, he doesn't have the money. That, and it's not guaranteed that he'll receive the rebate.

What you're saying makes sense, but to me, it seem like the OP also wants a decent processor that has the potential to overclock well.

However, if the OP is willing to forgo the CPU cooler, use the stock HSF (regardless of which CPU he chooses), and run the CPU stock (or with a slight OC), then he might be able to free up some extra funds for an HD3850.
 
AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400+ Brisbane 2.3GHz -$85
ASUS M2A-MVP AM2 AMD 480X CrossFire - $84
G.SKILL F2-6400CL5D-2GBNQ 2 x 1GB DDR2 800 RAM - $50
Western Digital WD1600AAJS 160GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - $50
CORSAIR CMPSU-550VX ATX12V V2.2 550W -$100
LITE-ON LH-20A1S 20X DVD±R SATA DVD Burner - $29
HD3850 -$180

$578 without casing, 2.3GHz X2 is fast enough for gaming with HD3850 and it would be much faster than 3.0GHz C2Q with X1950GT in games. With this mobo and PSU, you could add another HD3850 later.
 
Danny Bui said:
Intel Core 2 Duo E4500 CPU - $122
Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L Intel P35 Motherboard - $86
G.SKILL F2-6400CL5D-2GBNQ 2 x 1GB DDR2 800 RAM - $50
Sapphire 100199L Radeon X1950GT 256MB PCI-E Video Card - $113
Western Digital WD1600AAJS 160GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - $50
LITE-ON LH-20A1S 20X DVD±R SATA DVD Burner - $29
Corsair 450VX 450W PSU - $70
Cooler Master RC-690-KKN1-GP ATX Case - $70
----
Total: $590 Plus tax and shipping.
Click to expand...

So, in order to afford an HD3850 with this build from Danny...
drop to the E2160 CPU for $78. The E2160 can still OC to 3.4Ghz (or 3.0Ghz on stock cooling). Then drop the PSU to a $50 XClio Goodpower 500W. If you need even more headroom, drop the case to an Elite 330 from Cooler Master, which usually goes for $35.

$78 - Intel Dual-Core E2160 Allendale 1.8GHz 1MB L2 Cache
$50 - XClio Goodpower 500W ATX 500W
$35 - Cooler Master RC-330-KKN1-GP ELITE 330
$180 - HIS H385F256 Radeon HD 3850 256MB
 
That's interesting. Although DDR3 RAM would probably be lower in price by then (one would hope), I'd rather just be able to update my processor without having to worry about purchasing another cooler, motherboard and set of RAM just to keep up with technology. Even so, I hope that lack of need to upgrade those parts in an AMD build by that point in time would not further the performance gap that exists between Intel and itself. Thanks for the info, though - I'll keep that in mind.*

*Response to BladeVenom's post on previous page
 
The HD 3850 has jumped up in price since you posted, Enginurd. It's now $200.

I was planning on fitting in the HD 3850 along with the XClio Goodpower. However, I was a bit worried about the power requirements for the HD 3850. The card supposedly requires 28A on the +12V rail. With the XClio Goodpower's 30A on the +12V rail, that was a little too close for comfort for me.


EDIT: Did not see your post there.
 
Another question - At this point, I don't have too much time to just sit down and work on overclocking a processor. For a model that would perform well at stock (gaming performance is an absolute must) until I have some free time, should I still go with an Intel build?

Also, someone had mentioned the XClio 500 Goodpower earlier on. Is this still a reputable power supply and an adequate substitution for the Corsair 450 at a difference of $20?

Finally, I stumbled across some decent reviews for the Sapphire 2600XT. Is this a suitable card for a $70-80 price difference between itself and the HD 3850?
 
So the price went up... bastids... anyhow, I dropped the case down to the Elite 330 in case that happened. ;)

It doesnt take very long for a modest OC. It will probably take less than an hour to find a good, stable modest OC.

The XClio Goodpower is the minimum PSU I'd suggest for a gaming rig. The Corsair is better, of course, but for a price.

The midrange intro DX10 cards are terrible for gaming. Go with the HD3850 if you can afford it -- and it looks like you can.

BTW, You can preview your post before submitting, and recent posts will be shown under the reply box.
 
OK, I'm pretty sure that this is the setup that I will be going with, unless any of you strongly disagree with any one of my selections

G.Skill 2GB RAM
E4600 Core 2 Duo Processor
GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3L P35 Motherboard
XClio Goodpower 500W PSU
Sapphire X1950GT GPU
Western Digital Caviar 160GB Hard Drive
LITE-ON 20X DVD±R DVD Burner
COOLER MASTER RC-690

Total = $630 (Would have liked it to be a bit nearer to $600 budget, but still pretty close counting the rebates)

Great improvement considering the list of parts that I had started with - thanks especially to Danny Bui and enginurd for their much appreciated help.
 
Actually the video card is much more important than a faster CPU for games. If you wanna save, just get a cheaper CPU but don't get a cheaper graphic card. Like I said before, a 2.3GHz X2 is fast enough and it is comparable to a 1.8GHz C2D but the C2D could oc better. Trust me, I would rather have an HD3850 with just 2.3GHz X2 than having a 3.0GHz C2D with just 2600XT
 
alg7_munif said:
Actually the video card is much more important than a faster CPU for games. If you wanna save, just get a cheaper CPU but don't get a cheaper graphic card. Like I said before, a 2.3GHz X2 is fast enough and it is comparable to a 1.8GHz C2D but the C2D could oc better. Trust me, I would rather have an HD3850 with just 2.3GHz X2 than having a 3.0GHz C2D with just 2600XT
Click to expand...

+1

And imo, it's easier to make up the difference between high and low end cpu's by oc'ing than it is to make up the difference between high and low end gpu's.
 
Andrew_Carr said:
+1

And imo, it's easier to make up the difference between high and low end cpu's by oc'ing than it is to make up the difference between high and low end gpu's.
Click to expand...

+2

get the HD 3850. Its a great value. You wont regret it, certainly not if your gaming. your GPU budget:CPU budget should be somewhere on the order of 2:1 or even 3:1. For a gaming rig, that is.
 
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