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5870 vs 6950/6970

F

Faksnima

Weaksauce
Joined
Jan 15, 2011
Messages
113
Given that the overwhelming majority of 6950s can be turned into 6970s, for this particular question lets assume 6970 performance for 6950 price.

So an HD 5870 for $199 (new egg promotion) vs the cheapest HD 6950 (at 6970 unlocked performance) for $270. Is it really worth the $70 bucks? Someone enlighten me as to why I would buy a 6950 over a 5870 when it seems like the 5870s overclock a little better and provide the same performance within 10%.
 
2GB VRam is a huge plus, especially for greater than 1920x1080 resolutions and Eyefinity set-ups. Scaling is also better incase you ever do go crossfire in the future which is always a plus. You have to remember that the 6950/6970 can also overclock to increase the gap again over an overclocked 5870.

The 5870 is still a great buy, especially for $200. However, if I were to get a new card now I would probably go for the 6950 just because of its potential and price to performance ratio. The only scenario I would get a 5870 now is if I was strapped for cash and game at below 1920x1080 and/or already have a 5870 so I could crossfire.
 
The only reason to pay the $70 is if you are planning to add a second card in the future, as 6950 has better crossfire scaling than the 5870.

You will also save a bit on power usage, but not to the tune of $70 even over many years.
 
Here is the performance of the cards in question.

Guaranteed things the 6950 has that the 5870 doesn't have are HDMI 1.4a, CrossFire scaling, EQAA, 2GB of VRAM, and a quieter cooler. Assuming you get a 6950 to 6970 speeds in core/memory/shaders, you get 15% more performance for 25% more price.

If you don't plan on doing CrossFire, and don't mind a few more dB, the 5870 is a better value.

EDIT: Buy the 5870, it has one thing that makes it better than all other graphic cards: it's the last flagship GPU to have ATi stamped on it. :D
 
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5870 crossfire scaling is that significantly different than 6970 cross fire scaling? Additionally I was looking through several benchmarks and the performance gap didn't increase in most cases when resolution was increased. The difference was between 3-8 frames throughout and rarely effected playability (under 30 fps average) regardless of resolution. The 2gb VRAM seems to give it an advantage over Nvidia offerings, but strangely not as big a gap over the previous Radeon iterations. I noticed that the 6950/70s are poorer overclockers than the 5870s. I was thinking perhaps the 4 or 5% difference in overclock clock for clock would yield similar results across the board for both architectures.
 
Faksnima said:
5870 crossfire scaling is that significantly different than 6970 cross fire scaling? Additionally I was looking through several benchmarks and the performance gap didn't increase in most cases when resolution was increased. The difference was between 3-8 frames throughout and rarely effected playability (under 30 fps average) regardless of resolution. The 2gb VRAM seems to give it an advantage over Nvidia offerings, but strangely not as big a gap over the previous Radeon iterations. I noticed that the 6950/70s are poorer overclockers than the 5870s. I was thinking perhaps the 4 or 5% difference in overclock clock for clock would yield similar results across the board for both architectures.
Click to expand...

The 2GB VRam is huge at higher resolutions (I'm talking Eyefinity resolutions...5040x1050, 5760x1200, etc). Crysis alone takes nearly 1.3GB of VRam at 1920x1080 resolution with all settings cranked up. In the future, more games are more likely going to take advantage of the additional VRam (Metro 2033 already does, I'm betting Crysis 2 will as well).

And as far as the $199 5870 on Newegg, don't grab that card if you expect to overclock it far. I have that card and it's locked at 900MHz Core and 1300MHz Memory (not to mention the memory has no sinks on it so don't expect them to overclock...like at all.
 
Faksnima said:
5870 crossfire scaling is that significantly different than 6970 cross fire scaling? Additionally I was looking through several benchmarks and the performance gap didn't increase in most cases when resolution was increased. The difference was between 3-8 frames throughout and rarely effected playability (under 30 fps average) regardless of resolution. The 2gb VRAM seems to give it an advantage over Nvidia offerings, but strangely not as big a gap over the previous Radeon iterations. I noticed that the 6950/70s are poorer overclockers than the 5870s. I was thinking perhaps the 4 or 5% difference in overclock clock for clock would yield similar results across the board for both architectures.
Click to expand...

The 2GB of VRAM will not be a deciding factor for a single graphic card in 99% of all situations. If you don't plan on doing CrossFire now or down the line you can effectively remove it from the 6950's advantages.
 
The 6970 can have a big advantage in games that use a lot of tessellation at high resolutions.

I chose some examples from the HardwareCanucks review where there is a large performance difference:

Aliens Versus Predator 4 minute Refinery level run-through,
2560x1600, Very High, Tesselation + Adv. Shadows On, 4xAA, 16xAF:
6970 - 45.63 FPS Avg. / 28 FPS Min.
5870 - 32.4 FPS Avg. / 15 FPS Min.

Lost Planet 2 - 2 minute gameplay sequence from the second level in the first chapter,
2560x1600, Highest Details, Motion blur disabled, 4xAA
6970 - 37.31 FPS Avg. / 26 FPS Min.
5870 - 27.81 FPS Avg. / 20 FPS Min.

Metro 2033 - 3 minute walk-through and combat scene from The Bridge level,
1920x1200, High, Adv. DOF off, Tesselation Enabled, 0xAA, 16xAF.
6970 - 40.01 FPS Avg. / 26 FPS Min.
5870 - 28.51 FPS Avg. / 16 FPS Min.
 
Interesting, Nuby1. I didn't run across those before, that actually makes me rethink my stance a tad. My monitor only goes up to 1900x1200...resolutions that high...there aren't many mainstream monitors like that are they? Do those resolutions something to do w/ multiple displays and 3d?
 
For $70 more you get the latest graphics, all the new features, and 2GB of VRAM.... umm where again is the question?

Ya get the 6950 and unlock it and OC it a little. or if you dont want to mess with that you can just get the 6970.

If you play at 1920x1080 and don't care... then don't waste your money and just get a 5870
 
Faksnima said:
Interesting, Nuby1. I didn't run across those before, that actually makes me rethink my stance a tad. My monitor only goes up to 1900x1200...resolutions that high...there aren't many mainstream monitors like that are they? Do those resolutions something to do w/ multiple displays and 3d?
Click to expand...

2560 is not a common resolution but some of the larger 27 and 30" monitors support it.

The main reason I got the 6950 is I'm running 5040x1050 and wanted the extra RAM.
I was also worried about games using a lot of tessellation in the future.
 
Nickbaldwin86 said:
HOW do you figure? :confused:
It is a very common resolution and I don't know of a single 30" monitor that doesn't support 2560x1600... I even own one.
Click to expand...

It's probably the most common resolution for the large monitors over 26 inches, but the most common resolution these days seems to be 1920x1080.
 
I'd spend the extra ~$70 for the 6950. After you unlock the shaders the performance/value is quite good. The only scenario that I would get a 5870 is if I went used because the potential to save a lot is great then.
 
Nuby1Canuby said:
It's probably the most common resolution for the large monitors over 26 inches, but the most common resolution these days seems to be 1920x1080.
Click to expand...

1080 is only common because it is what is used for 3D... and of course 1080p is HDTV weak standard and the hole reason I game on a computer not a freakin low res xbox/ps3/or even worse wii
 
I had to RMA my 6970 (annoying rattling sound) and reinstall my CF 5870. While it seemed like the 6970 did a better job of providing smoother gameplay, I really don't see any noticeable difference now that I'm back to CF 5870s. Weird.
 
The 69xx cards are still new and amd/ati hasn't properly optimized their drivers for them. I think their performance will improve dramatically compared to current benchmarks.
Anyway, if you're REALLY [H] than you'll spend that extra $70 and get the 6950. :D
 
Ya I cant wait for the 11.xx drivers to come out... hoping it will bring some light to the 69xx cards
 
The 5870 out performs the 6950 when gaming at 1600x1200...

I personally tested out both the 6950 and 5870 in my Q9650 @ 4.27ghz system.

I OC'd each card to it's max stable OC and ran multiple benchmarks using FRAPS.

The 5870 out performed the 6950 in both BC2 and BlackOps by 7-10%.

Since those are the only games that I play it wasn't worth paying the extra $70 to get the 6950 which would give me lower fps :p

Toms Hardware also ran some benchmarks and show similar results, they were using a i7-980x@3.73ghz and using stock clock speeds, my 5870 was at 950/1275...

bf20bc2201680.png
 
From a heat and noise perspective, the 6950 on air is quieter and runs cooler than the 5870 on air @ load.

I went to water on my 5870 purely for heat and noise concerns. No overclocking, either.

When playing BF2/BC2 on the 6950 on air, the temps are even competitive with my 5870 on water. On default auto fan control, the 6950 rarely ramps up above 35% fan speed whereas my 5870 would always ramp up to "blow dryer" noise level @ load.
 
It's $70 = 1 week gas money for me. Do it. Eat top ramen for a month or something. I think its worth it for 6950 flashing.
 
Nuby1Canuby said:
2560 is not a common resolution but some of the larger 27 and 30" monitors support it.
Click to expand...
A little pedantic but no, only 30". The 27"s are 2560x1440 max (16:9)

§·H·ï·Z·N·ï·L·T·ï said:
some stuff
Click to expand...
Use a reputable site, and report THEIR findings. Toms hardware are basically an arm of nvidia, so I don't trust anything they write.

As for 6950 unlock vs 6970. If you need the extra frames of the 6970 and can justify it, always go 6970. However, if the extra speed would just be a nice boost you'd enjoy but don't need, then get a 6950 and by all means try it.
 
soekev said:
From a heat and noise perspective, the 6950 on air is quieter and runs cooler than the 5870 on air @ load.

I went to water on my 5870 purely for heat and noise concerns. No overclocking, either.

When playing BF2/BC2 on the 6950 on air, the temps are even competitive with my 5870 on water. On default auto fan control, the 6950 rarely ramps up above 35% fan speed whereas my 5870 would always ramp up to "blow dryer" noise level @ load.
Click to expand...
Interesting, I don't consider my 5870 to be loud at all in comparison to the 470 and 570 that I tested out. I actually have my 5870 fan on to run at 100% when I'm in game, I have it clocked at 950/1275. While playing BC2 it never passes 42c. I never understand why gpu fan noise is such an issue for everyone, doesn't everyone wear headphones when gaming?

Vexerz said:
It's $70 = 1 week gas money for me. Do it. Eat top ramen for a month or something. I think its worth it for 6950 flashing.
Click to expand...
Don't do it if you play BC2 or BlackOps though, you will get lower performance if you are running at 1600x1080.

It really all depends on what type of gamer you are and what resolution your running. When I find a game that I like, that's all I play. For example I have 700+ hours of BC2 and I'm not at all bored with it and I plan on playing this game till BF3 comes out. I play popular mp games, I could care less if my card doesn't perform well in metro or alien vs predator... you don't play those types of games for a long time, you run through them a couple times and put them away.
 
samuelmorris said:
Use a reputable site, and report THEIR findings. Toms hardware are basically an arm of nvidia, so I don't trust anything they write.
Click to expand...
You don't have to tell me about trusting online benchmarks, I'm all about running my own so you can keep you snide remarks to yourself please.

In the last 3 months I've done extensive BC2 benchmarking on the ati5870, gtx460 768mb SLI, gtx470, gtx570, ati5970 and ati6950.

From running MY OWN benchmarks the OC'd 5870 was 7-10% faster then the OC'd 6950.

Here's another non reputable benchmark for ya that also shows similar results, this is from TechSpot, these GPU's are at stock clocks and ran on a i7-920@3.7ghz...

bfbc202.png
 
bbc20xaa.jpg

bbc24xaa.jpg


As you can see, test results vary. I'm fine with a graph from Techspot, I just don't take anything from THG for granted.
 
soekev said:
From a heat and noise perspective, the 6950 on air is quieter and runs cooler than the 5870 on air @ load.

I went to water on my 5870 purely for heat and noise concerns. No overclocking, either.

When playing BF2/BC2 on the 6950 on air, the temps are even competitive with my 5870 on water. On default auto fan control, the 6950 rarely ramps up above 35% fan speed whereas my 5870 would always ramp up to "blow dryer" noise level @ load.
Click to expand...

WOW really? my 5870 never goes over 75C or 40%. But maybe My case has better cooling than Yours.
 
The 6950 is a similar size to the 5870, slightly smaller I think, but is only typically 170W versus the 190W of the HD5870. Add to that the stock heatsinks are slightly better this time around, it's easy to see how the 6950 can run cooler than the 6970 does.
 
I'm probably going to run at 1900X1200 max. That's the most my 24 inch screen supports and my plasma is even lower at 1900x1080. What do you guys think about the 5870 vs the 1gb 6950/6970?
 
If your fan is "quiet" at 100% then you don't have a reference card. IMO the 6950 at 100% is louder than the 5870.

Faksnima said:
I'm probably going to run at 1900X1200 max. That's the most my 24 inch screen supports and my plasma is even lower at 1900x1080. What do you guys think about the 5870 vs the 1gb 6950/6970?
Click to expand...

It depends on your budget. If you can afford a 6950 I'd get that, but otherwise get the 5870 or wait for the GTX560 that is launching in about a week.
 
Bad Company 2 is strongly CPU limited, your Core 2 quad may actually be holding you back, as bizarre as that sounds.

Faksnima: At that resolution, the 5870 and 6950 are basically inseparable, sometimes the 6950 wins by a few percent, sometimes the 5870 wins by a few percent. It's really a case of price, and potential quiet, ignoring the bizarre 100% fan speed arguments, the 6950 should be quieter than the 5870 as it doesn't put out as much heat. Now the question is, how much less than $300 can you get a 5870 for? If a lot less, sounds like the 5870 is the card for you.
 
samuelmorris said:
Bad Company 2 is strongly CPU limited, your Core 2 quad may actually be holding you back, as bizarre as that sounds.

Faksnima: At that resolution, the 5870 and 6950 are basically inseparable, sometimes the 6950 wins by a few percent, sometimes the 5870 wins by a few percent. It's really a case of price, and potential quiet, ignoring the bizarre 100% fan speed arguments, the 6950 should be quieter than the 5870 as it doesn't put out as much heat. Now the question is, how much less than $300 can you get a 5870 for? If a lot less, sounds like the 5870 is the card for you.
Click to expand...
Yep, even though I've got my Q9650 at 4.2ghz it's still bottlenecking my performance, that's why I wasn't able to use techspot, toms hardware and bit-tech's benchmarks for BC2, they were all using i7-980x systems to test. I had to go out and run all my own tests and buy/return 6 different video cards till I found the one that best suited my system. 5870 for $200 on newegg was the best bet for me, I would have been fine paying more for a better newer gen card if it actually increased my fps, but due to CPU bottlenecking the 5870 gave me the best performance and just also happened to be the best price :D

I just researched what the OP is using, he is running...
Core i7 2600k (overclocked)
Asus P8P67 Pro
8GB DDR 3 Ram

With that said he will see similar results to the above benchmark screenshots, I'd go 6950 flashed to 6970 or a wait for the gtx560 to come out. You won't see CPU bottlenecking with a OC'd i7-2600k.
 
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samuelmorris said:
Sounds like it would have been cheaper just to buy an i7 for your system :p
Click to expand...
lol, ya right I wish :p

I was running an E8500 @ 4ghz and a gtx260 and was getting poor FPS in BC2, dips to 35fps in heavy action on high settings in DX9 mode.

I sold my E8500 and gtx260 for $250 and purchased a Q9650 and ati5870 for $425. So to upgrade my system it ended up costing $175 total and now I never dip below 50fps in DX11 highest settings in BC2, average is 80fps and max is 150fps around spawn on isla and valpo.

If I went i7 route after motherboard and memory upgrade I would have ended up spending $550 to upgrade my system. $175 vs $550, I chose to do the Q9650 and save $375. $375 isn't worth an extra 10-15fps to me that I'm losing due to CPU bottlenecking. Although I will be pissed if BF3 doesn't run well on a 4.2ghz Q9650 :p
 
Yeah I was just referring to the up front cost of buying half a dozen different cards to test.
 
samuelmorris said:
Yeah I was just referring to the up front cost of buying half a dozen different cards to test.
Click to expand...
Oh lol, well I live within 10 minutes from a Fry's Electronics... You can buy a video card, use it for up to 30 days and return it without having to pay any restocking fee's. Surprisingly they never hassled me at all for buying and returning 6 different cards in a 3 month time period. The returned cards just get put back on the shelf for 5% off I think and sold as open box.
 
If there was somewhere like that in the UK, I don't think I would ever have shopped online.
 
§·H·ï·Z·N·ï·L·T·ï;1036724829 said:
Oh lol, well I live within 10 minutes from a Fry's Electronics... You can buy a video card, use it for up to 30 days and return it without having to pay any restocking fee's. Surprisingly they never hassled me at all for buying and returning 6 different cards in a 3 month time period. The returned cards just get put back on the shelf for 5% off I think and sold as open box.
Click to expand...
Amazon does something similar, and over the holidays (started in November) you could return anything until January 31st for a full refund, they even paid shipping!

You could buy GTX 580 SLi setup, do all your gaming from November to January, then return both cards for all your money. For people will school winter breaks, that's plenty of time to beat every major title...

Seems like a dick thing to do, I guess. ;)
 
So...after all that discussion...I went ahead and went with....ready for it?........
......
...
.
2 768mb GTX 460s in SLI. LOL. I couldn't pass up the deal. Hopefully all the rebates kick in (many have reported they have) and that would make this solution roughly $60 per card. At $120, I couldn't justify paying $110 more for the 5870 or $210 more for the 6950, just didn't make sense for gaming at 1900x1200.
 
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