512e alignment issue

A

Azhar

Fixing stupid since 1972
Joined
Jan 9, 2001
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I'm trying to understand this new 4k drive workings. I've read a few sites that talks about how 4k drives degrade in performance severely when running in 512e mode due to alignment issue, but I cannot find any information on how to correct it.

If I had two Samsung 2TB drives (not known whether it's running in 4k or 512b) and four Seagate 2TB drives (4k running in 512e mode), would removing the Samsung drives cause the Seagates to perform better? Is that how it works?
 
I'm trying to understand this new 4k drive workings. I've read a few sites that talks about how 4k drives degrade in performance severely when running in 512e mode due to alignment issue, but I cannot find any information on how to correct it.
Click to expand...

Format your drive or array with windows 7 or a modern linux release and you should not have to worry about the issue. Basically your partitions need to be aligned on 4K boundaries.
 
drescherjm said:
Format your drive with windows 7 or a modern linux release and you will not have to worry about the issue.
Click to expand...

I've formatted it with Windows Home Server 2011. Does that make a difference?

And would I have to change the logical sector to 4096 byte when I format it?
 
ok then something else is going on with all of my Seagate Baracuda LP drives that causes it to perform abysmally. Transferring at around 5-10 MB/second and not being able to play back media files.

I'll have to check when I get home whether it's running 4k or 512 emulation. How do I find out?
 
I'll have to check when I get home whether it's running 4k or 512 emulation. How do I find out?
Click to expand...

Its running emulation. Since no drives that I know of report 4K sectors to the os.

ok then something else is going on with all of my Seagate Baracuda LP drives that causes it to perform abysmally. Transferring at around 5-10 MB/second and not being able to play back media files.
Click to expand...

Are you using deduplication?
 
drescherjm said:
Its running emulation. Since no drives that I know of report 4K sectors to the os.



Are you using deduplication?
Click to expand...

I had to look up what that meant. The drives came from two BlackArmor NAS units each with two drives in JBOD array.

When the IO board on one of the NAS died, I pulled the drives out and threw it into a new machine and then formatted it with Windows Home Server 2011 to make them into individual NTFS drives.

Did I need to do anything else since it was in the BlackArmor prior to using them as single drives?
 
Did I need to do anything else since it was in the BlackArmor prior to using them as single drives?
Click to expand...

No.

My other thoughts are the drives are highly fragmented or they could be dieing. Drives get very slow when they are having problems reading or writhing data. I would install CrystalDiskInfo to see if the drive thinks it is operating abnormally.
 
drescherjm said:
No.

My other thoughts are the drives are highly fragmented or they could be dieing. Drives get very slow when they are having problems reading or writhing data. I would install CrystalDiskInfo to see if the drive thinks it is operating abnormally.
Click to expand...

The thing is it's happening to all four Seagate drives from both NAS units. It just seems odd that four drives would behave the same way when pulled out of the NAS and thrown into a computer.

I'll run CrystalDiskInfo and see what it has to say.

There are two other 2TB drives in there by Samsung and they're running perfectly fine.
 
How many of your drives are performing poorly?
Is it all 4 of them or just one?

Download and try atto disk benchmark on each drive - it will give you a good idea of what performance level to expect when reading various block sizes.
 
Billy_nnn said:
How many of your drives are performing poorly?
Is it all 4 of them or just one?

Download and try atto disk benchmark on each drive - it will give you a good idea of what performance level to expect when reading various block sizes.
Click to expand...

The four Seagate drives pulled from the two BlackArmor NAS are performing badly. The two Samsung drives are behaving normally

I'll run the benches when I get home from work tonight.

I'm about ready to give up on the Segate drives and buy a couple more Samsungs instead to be honest. I've been building systems since 1989 and I've never come across hard drive issues. RAM, sure. Bad board, yeah, but four hard drives at the same time? Ugh, no.
 
I'm about ready to give up on the Segate drives and buy a couple more Samsungs instead to be honest.
Click to expand...

That may be difficult since Seagate purchased Samsung. Although do I believe the F4s are still using Samsung technology they may come with Seagate labeling.
 
Azhar said:
The four Seagate drives pulled from the two BlackArmor NAS are performing badly. The two Samsung drives are behaving normally

I'll run the benches when I get home from work tonight.

I'm about ready to give up on the Segate drives and buy a couple more Samsungs instead to be honest. I've been building systems since 1989 and I've never come across hard drive issues. RAM, sure. Bad board, yeah, but four hard drives at the same time? Ugh, no.
Click to expand...


It's very unlikely that 4 four drives are "faulty".

Personally I'd try flashing one with the latest CC35 firmware first, before reaching for the credit card :)

http://knowledge.seagate.com/articles/en_US/FAQ/213915en
 
Billy_nnn said:
It's very unlikely that 4 four drives are "faulty".

Personally I'd try flashing one with the latest CC35 firmware first, before reaching for the credit card :)

http://knowledge.seagate.com/articles/en_US/FAQ/213915en
Click to expand...

ok I installed the firmware on one of the drive I removed and wiped using my gaming computer. File transfer from my regular drive to that Seagate (on the same computer) now runs at roughly 86-91 MB/second using a ripped 32GB Blu-ray folder.

How do I know if the firmware was applied? The drive said it had CC94 on it. The firmware you linked is CC35. Isn't that an earlier version? Is there a tool that tells you what firmware is applied? I don't see it in the disk drive properties anywhere in Device Manager.

Edit: CrystalDiskInfo says firmware CC94. It rated two of the Seagate drive as "Good" just like all of the other drives. Haven't tested it on the other two Seagates. Here's the DiskInfo for one of the Seagate drive (in yellow):

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
CrystalDiskInfo 5.0.0 (C) 2008-2012 hiyohiyo
Crystal Dew World : http://crystalmark.info/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

OS : Windows 7 Home Premium Edition SP1 [6.1 Build 7601] (x64)
Date : 2012/07/02 20:03:54

-- Controller Map ----------------------------------------------------------
+ Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller [ATA]
+ ATA Channel 0 (0)
- PIONEER DVD-RW DVR-110D ATA Device
- ATA Channel 1 (1)
+ Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller [ATA]
+ ATA Channel 0 (0)
- ST3500320AS ATA Device
+ ATA Channel 1 (1)
- ST32000542AS ATA Device
- ATAPI iHOS104 ATA Device

-- Disk List ---------------------------------------------------------------
(1) ST3500320AS : 500.1 GB [0/2/0, pd1] - st
(2) ST32000542AS : 2000.3 GB [1/3/1, pd1] - st

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
(1) ST3500320AS
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Model : ST3500320AS
Firmware : SD15
Serial Number : 9QM3D1H7
Disk Size : 500.1 GB (8.4/137.4/500.1)
Buffer Size : Unknown
Queue Depth : 32
# of Sectors : 976773168
Rotation Rate : 7200 RPM
Interface : Serial ATA
Major Version : ATA8-ACS
Minor Version : ATA8-ACS version 4
Transfer Mode : SATA/300
Power On Hours : 8387 hours
Power On Count : 2951 count
Temparature : 34 C (93 F)
Health Status : Good
Features : S.M.A.R.T., 48bit LBA, NCQ
APM Level : ----
AAM Level : ----

-- S.M.A.R.T. --------------------------------------------------------------
ID Cur Wor Thr RawValues(6) Attribute Name
01 119 _99 __6 00000C56F0AE Read Error Rate
03 _94 _91 __0 000000000000 Spin-Up Time
04 _98 _98 _20 000000000B28 Start/Stop Count
05 100 100 _36 000000000000 Reallocated Sectors Count
07 _76 _60 _30 00040A80215F Seek Error Rate
09 _91 _91 __0 0000000020C3 Power-On Hours
0A 100 100 _97 000000000001 Spin Retry Count
0C _98 _37 _20 000000000B87 Power Cycle Count
B8 100 100 _99 000000000000 End-to-End Error
BB 100 100 __0 000000000000 Reported Uncorrectable Errors
BC 100 _98 __0 0000000001AB Command Timeout
BD 100 100 __0 000000000000 High Fly Writes
BE _66 _49 _45 0000221A0022 Airflow Temperature
C2 _34 _51 __0 000E00000022 Temperature
C3 _59 _32 __0 00000C56F0AE Hardware ECC recovered
C5 100 100 __0 000000000000 Current Pending Sector Count
C6 100 100 __0 000000000000 Uncorrectable Sector Count
C7 200 200 __0 000000000000 UltraDMA CRC Error Count

-- IDENTIFY_DEVICE ---------------------------------------------------------
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
000: 0C5A 3FFF C837 0010 0000 003F 003F 0000 0000 0000
010: 2020 2020 2020 2020 2020 3951 3951 4D33 4431 4837
020: 0000 0000 0004 5344 3135 2020 2020 5354 3335 3030
030: 3332 3041 5320 2020 2020 2020 2020 2020 2020 2020
040: 2020 2020 2020 2020 2020 2020 2020 8010 0000 2F00
050: 4000 0200 0200 0007 3FFF 003F 003F FC10 00FB 0110
060: FFFF 0FFF 0000 0007 0003 0078 0078 0078 0078 0000
070: 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0506 0506 0000 0040 0040
080: 01F0 0029 346B 7D01 4123 BC01 BC01 4123 407F 0032
090: 0032 FEFE FFFE 0000 FE00 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
100: 6030 3A38 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 5000 C500
110: 0CC4 9B36 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 400E
120: 400E 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0029 6030
130: 3A38 6030 3A38 0000 0002 0100 0100 5000 3C06 3C0A
140: 0000 003C 0000 0008 0000 000F 000F 0280 0000 0000
150: 0008 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 2700 8000
160: 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
170: 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
180: 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
190: 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
200: 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 103B 103B 0000 0000 0000
210: 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 1C20 0000 0000
220: 0002 0000 1010 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
230: 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
240: 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
250: 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 A6A5

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
(2) ST32000542AS
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Model : ST32000542AS
Firmware : CC94
Serial Number : 5XW08RXH
Disk Size : 2000.3 GB (8.4/137.4/2000.3)
Buffer Size : Unknown
Queue Depth : 32
# of Sectors : 3907029168
Rotation Rate : 5900 RPM
Interface : Serial ATA
Major Version : ATA8-ACS
Minor Version : ATA8-ACS version 4
Transfer Mode : SATA/300
Power On Hours : 21376 hours
Power On Count : 65 count
Host Reads : 110 GB
Host Writes : 341 GB
Temparature : 33 C (91 F)
Health Status : Good
Features : S.M.A.R.T., AAM, 48bit LBA, NCQ
APM Level : ----
AAM Level : FE00h [ON]

-- S.M.A.R.T. --------------------------------------------------------------
ID Cur Wor Thr RawValues(6) Attribute Name
01 108 _99 __6 00000105D919 Read Error Rate
03 100 100 __0 000000000000 Spin-Up Time
04 _99 _99 _20 000000000512 Start/Stop Count
05 100 100 _36 000000000000 Reallocated Sectors Count
07 _63 _60 _30 000A0152A29C Seek Error Rate
09 _76 _76 __0 000000005380 Power-On Hours
0A 100 100 _97 000000000000 Spin Retry Count
0C 100 100 _20 000000000041 Power Cycle Count
B7 100 100 __0 000000000000 Unknown
B8 100 100 _99 000000000000 End-to-End Error
BB 100 100 __0 000000000000 Reported Uncorrectable Errors
BC 100 100 __0 000100010001 Command Timeout
BD _78 _78 __0 000000000016 High Fly Writes
BE _67 _48 _45 000021180021 Airflow Temperature
C2 _33 _52 __0 001100000021 Temperature
C3 _45 _18 __0 00000105D919 Hardware ECC recovered
C5 100 100 __0 000000000000 Current Pending Sector Count
C6 100 100 __0 000000000000 Uncorrectable Sector Count
C7 200 200 __0 000000000000 UltraDMA CRC Error Count
F0 100 253 __0 68800000540D Head Flying Hours
F1 100 253 __0 00002AB169A0 Total LBAs Written
F2 100 253 __0 00000DCBD66E Total LBAs Read

-- IDENTIFY_DEVICE ---------------------------------------------------------
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
000: 0C5A 3FFF C837 0010 0000 003F 003F 0000 0000 0000
010: 2020 2020 2020 2020 2020 3558 3558 5730 3852 5848
020: 0000 0000 0004 4343 3934 2020 2020 5354 3332 3030
030: 3035 3432 4153 2020 2020 2020 2020 2020 2020 2020
040: 2020 2020 2020 2020 2020 2020 2020 8010 0000 2F00
050: 4000 0200 0200 0007 3FFF 003F 003F FC10 00FB 0110
060: FFFF 0FFF 0000 0007 0003 0078 0078 0078 0078 0000
070: 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0506 0506 0000 0048 0040
080: 01F0 0029 346B 7F61 4163 BE41 BE41 4163 407F 00C5
090: 00C5 0000 FFFE 0000 FE00 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
100: 88B0 E8E0 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 5000 C500
110: 18EA 5F24 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 401E
120: 401C 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0029 88B0
130: E8E0 88B0 E8E0 2020 0002 0100 0100 5000 3C06 3C0A
140: 0000 003C 0000 0008 0000 004F 004F 0280 0000 0000
150: 0008 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 4000 8000
160: 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
170: 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
180: 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
190: 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
200: 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 103F 103F 0000 0000 0000
210: 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 170C 0000 0000
220: 0000 0000 1010 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
230: 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
240: 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
250: 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 89A5
 
Last edited:
Are all 6 drives on the same controller, or do you have the Samsungs on one and the Seagates on another?
 
CrystalDiskInfo says firmware CC94. It rated two of the Seagate drive as "Good" just like all of the other drives. Haven't tested it on the other two Seagates. Here's the DiskInfo for one of the Seagate drive:
Click to expand...

Both drives look fine to me also.
 
drescherjm said:
Both drives look fine to me also.
Click to expand...

The first drive is my main OS drive on my gaming computer. I plugged in one of the problematic Seagate drive into my game computer to check it out. So I know drive (1) is fine - I've been using it for maybe 4-5 years now.

Drive (2) has been troublesome on the ASRock board on the media server along with three other drives of the same model.

Asyork: The ASRock board has 8 SATA ports. Ports 0 and 1 are used by the 500GB OS drive and the DVD drive. Ports 2 and 3 are used by the 2TB Samsungs. Ports 4, 5, 6 and 7 are used by the 2TB Seagates.

I stumbled across this A75 board roundup this afternoon and noticed that they mentioned the ASRock SATA ports 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 are controlled by the A75 Husdon D3 controller, and ports 6 and 7 are used by ASMedia ASM1061 controller. I wonder if that matters.

Going to unplug some drives from ports 6 and 7 and test it out.
 
I dunno, after ridding ASRock's abysmal driver from their custom written Realtek NIC driver and improving network thoroughput, it got me thinking about ASRock's custom SATA port as well. I pulled the drive off of ports 6 and 7 and left it only on 0-5 and so far I've played a Blu-ray from one of the Seagate without hiccup

*knock on wood*

Going to play another movie and see if it's just fluke.

ASRock make fantastic boards, but holy shit their drivers are NASTY. I wonder who really makes the ASM1061 SATA chips.
 
Confirmed. Removing all drives from ports 6 and 7 stopped the stutters completely. No freezes, no lag, nothing.

Looks like I'll be using SATA cards for future expansions instead of the ASM1061 ports. That's fine by me.

ASRock driver team, get it together!
 
That is really odd to me. Maybe the documentation is wrong, and 4-7 are on the ASM1061. I just can't understand how using one controller slows down just two of the drives on another controller.
 
asyork said:
That is really odd to me. Maybe the documentation is wrong, and 4-7 are on the ASM1061. I just can't understand how using one controller slows down just two of the drives on another controller.
Click to expand...

That's why it took so long for me to figure this out. I also don't see how a controller for two drives would affect four drives of the same brand.

I'm not going to chalk this as a find though. I'm still going to try and figure out what's going on. At least it's a starting point.
 
ASM is ASMedia. You can get the same chip on a SATA card.

As for mobo drivers. they're useless, just let windows download the generic ones.
 
Hmmm, never seen that before - a 2 port controller for ports 6+7 slows down Seagate drives attached to ports 4+5 on another (6 port) controller, but doesn't affect Samsung drives on ports 2+3 on that 6 port controller :confused:

I guess the first thing to do would be to switch the Seagates on 4+5 with the Samsungs on 2+3 - see if the problem then follows the drives or stays with the ports.
Very odd!!!


Have you set AHCI mode for both controllers and set SATA combined mode to disabled?
 
Yes AHCI is enabled instead of IDE mode in the BIOS, but I'll have to check on the SATA combined mode settings after work. It should be disabled?
 
Aesma said:
ASM is ASMedia. You can get the same chip on a SATA card.

As for mobo drivers. they're useless, just let windows download the generic ones.
Click to expand...

Maybe if you are talking about a really old board with out of date drivers... but the Intel drivers do make a bit of a difference stability and speed-wise.

A lot of the time, the Intel drivers (or AMD for that matter) won't update all the needed drivers when you run the installer.

You have to get the extracted files and manually update the drivers one by one through device manager.
 
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