5.1 optical input decoding

[lacir]

Hello all,

I am very behind in the audio hardware scene these days. Something I really disliked about my olddd audigy platinum is that (in my belief) the optical input from the front only supported 2.1.

My question is, what cards out there now do 5.1 decoding with the optical input? I did quite an extensive search and my assumption from reading the threads was that almost all do, but there wasn't any CLEAR answer (hence the new thread).

Mainly i'll probably be setting up my xbox 360 to my computer. I'd like to upgrade my sound card to support the 360 optical 5.1 to my computer, and output that signal to my klipsch 5.1. I'd like to avoid all the new gadgetry in say, the x-fi since my audio demands aren't quite high. I just want to ensure 5.1 decoding through the optical input.

Thanks everyone

 

[Donnie27]

Hello all,

I am very behind in the audio hardware scene these days. Something I really disliked about my olddd audigy platinum is that (in my belief) the optical input from the front only supported 2.1.

My question is, what cards out there now do 5.1 decoding with the optical input? I did quite an extensive search and my assumption from reading the threads was that almost all do, but there wasn't any CLEAR answer (hence the new thread).

Mainly i'll probably be setting up my xbox 360 to my computer. I'd like to upgrade my sound card to support the 360 optical 5.1 to my computer, and output that signal to my klipsch 5.1. I'd like to avoid all the new gadgetry in say, the x-fi since my audio demands aren't quite high. I just want to ensure 5.1 decoding through the optical input.

Thanks everyone

Connect the Xbox's Audio straight to your receivers and the Video to either Video-In on your video card or use some kind of other interface like a TV Card. You might have timing issues between sound and video.

 

[lacir]

The issue really isn't hooking up the video to the pc. I have the VGA cable to hook directly to my monitor.

The main question here is 5.1 optical input decoding, and if it is on most sound cards these days rather than my current (and archaic) sound blaster audigy 2 platinum which only does 2.1 for the optical input. What cards now have 5.1 optical input decoding so that I can have true 5.1 output with my klipsch 5.1 speakers?

 

[spectrumbx]

The issue really isn't hooking up the video to the pc. I have the VGA cable to hook directly to my monitor.

The main question here is 5.1 optical input decoding, and if it is on most sound cards these days rather than my current (and archaic) sound blaster audigy 2 platinum which only does 2.1 for the optical input. What cards now have 5.1 optical input decoding so that I can have true 5.1 output with my klipsch 5.1 speakers?

I faintly remember this issue.
I also think all Audigy behave this way (I could be wrong).
I guess you could do a digital pass-through to the speakers. That would work even better for you.

 

[lacir]

Any specific cards now that have optical in for 5.1? Does not need to be a sound blaster model but that is what i've had my entire life

 

[alg7_munif]

A 5.1 sound signal through SPDIF is an encoded signal in DD/DTS format and I don't think that there is any sound card out there that can do the decoding, what you need is a receiver/decoder box like the Creative DDTS-100 or any HT receiver with DD/DTS decoding. I've tried to search for a DD decoder software for SPDIF input but still haven't found anything yet.

 

[Donnie27]

The issue really isn't hooking up the video to the pc. I have the VGA cable to hook directly to my monitor.

The main question here is 5.1 optical input decoding, and if it is on most sound cards these days rather than my current (and archaic) sound blaster audigy 2 platinum which only does 2.1 for the optical input. What cards now have 5.1 optical input decoding so that I can have true 5.1 output with my klipsch 5.1 speakers?

Then get the cheapest DDL based Sound Card you can find. The fact is *most sound cards DON'T do Dolby Digital Live or DTS Connect. Honestly, I only worry about encoding and Decoding on my HTS not my computer where Games are about 75%of the reason I have receiver and 5 speakers, soon to be seven.

 

[Donnie27]

Any specific cards now that have optical in for 5.1? Does not need to be a sound blaster model but that is what i've had my entire life

Or you can do this.

DTS-610

DTS Encoding - DTS Interactive:

Supports interactive real time, discrete multi-channel interactive DTS encoding up to 5.1 channels
Low Latency of <50ms
Supports DTS Bitstream
Two Operation Modes:

2 modes selectable via push button
Encode: Convert analog input for DTS encoding
Bypass: Pass through Digital input for PCM or Compressed audio

Connectivity:

DC In 5V DC Jack
Line In - Front L/R 3.5mm Stereo
Line In - Rear L/R 3.5mm Stereo
Line In - Center / S.WFR 3.5mm Stereo
Coax SPDIF In RCA gold
Coax SPDIF Out RCA gold
Optical SPDIF In Square type
Optical SPDIF Out Square type

Optical (TOS) Cable (1.5m, 4.92 ft.)

 

[alg7_munif]

No he doesn't want that. He wants something that can convert a digital 5.1 sound(DD/DTS encoded signal) from XBox360(or XBox or PS2 or PS3) into analogue(3 jacks). The DTS-610 is a crappy product, why would someone wants to convert an analogue signal into a DD/DTS signal and convert it back to analogue again for the speakers, unless you want to fund Creative. How about this, buy a X-Fi, connect it to DTS-610 to get a DD/DTS signal then connect the DTS-610 to the DDTS-100 to covert it back into analogue for a Creative's analogue surround speaker. There you will have an all Creative sound system and it'll be great because Creative is so great. Sarcasm of course.

 

[Donnie27]

No he doesn't want that. He wants something that can convert a digital 5.1 sound(DD/DTS encoded signal) from XBox360(or XBox or PS2 or PS3) into analogue(3 jacks). The DTS-610 is a crappy product, why would someone wants to convert an analogue signal into a DD/DTS signal and convert it back to analogue again for the speakers, unless you want to fund Creative. How about this, buy a X-Fi, connect it to DTS-610 to get a DD/DTS signal then connect the DTS-610 to the DDTS-100 to covert it back into analogue for a Creative's analogue surround speaker. There you will have an all Creative sound system and it'll be great because Creative is so great. Sarcasm of course.

Or spend $189 on an overpriced X-Meridian that doesn't even feature its namesake LOL! Meridian Lossless Packing. Creative cards ship with a MLP chip, do any of the CMedia cards? Sure it can be done in software LOL!

http://www.5dot1.com/articles/meridian_lossless_packing.html

DVD-Audio's Limitation

DVD-Audio still has a maximum transfer rate of about 9.6 Megabits-per-second. If you record 6 channels at 24/96, your data rate is 13.8 Megabits-per-second, which exceeds the limitation. How do you get around this problem?

MLP - Meridian Lossless Packing is the data-reduction technique selected for DVD-Audio. MLP sounds better because it is a lossless data algorithm. It is not like MP3 for instance. You get back exactly what you put it, so it does not distort or change any of the audio information. MLP on average reduces the size of the file by about 50%. So, with MLP you can put 6 channels of 24/96 on the disk, and still not hit the 9.6 Mbs data limitation. MLP can also be used to simply get longer recording times onto the disk.

This is a hardware feature on almost all Creative Cards since the Audigy 2. The whole crack was a hint at getting a receiver, sheesh. Hince my comment about a home theater system (HTS).

I tested it and it is NO crappier than the Xplosion when doing DTS. In fact, it has less latency LOL! I honestly think you shooul test stuff before you bash it! He asked-->Any specific cards now that have optical in for 5.1? and "the x-fi since my audio demands aren't quite high. I just want to ensure 5.1 decoding through the optical input." "Something I really disliked about my olddd audigy platinum is that (in my belief) the optical input from the front only supported 2.1


*if he still has that card then DTS-610/cheap HTS or a cheap Card with DTS would work. Note* I first posted cheap DDL card, did you miss it?

Speaking of funding LOL, you seem to be funding Auzentech According to one of my buds who just RMA-ed his X-Meridian, you paid too much. I tried to get him to post here but it called it a waste fo time. I can't wait for an UNBIASED review of the Auzentech X-Meridian.

 

[lacir]

Hm, interesting.

I was reading about the DTS 610. As of yet, the klipsch setup I have takes the 3 analog outputs from my sound card. The point here that I am trying to make is, I'd like to connect the 360 TO the pc. Am i wrong at assuming that the DTS 610 bridges a gap between the PC and another home theatre? That would mean, my PC would output to that DTS 610, and then my klipsch speakers would not be hooked up anymore (it takes 3 analog outputs). My goal here is to have something like the front drive bay of the creative card take in the optical (square) in like it does now, but decode the 5.1 into 3 analog channels i suppose.

Thanks for the many responses. Apologies if i do not understand the above comments, or if this question has already been answered.

 

[Donnie27]

Hm, interesting.

I was reading about the DTS 610. As of yet, the klipsch setup I have takes the 3 analog outputs from my sound card. The point here that I am trying to make is, I'd like to connect the 360 TO the pc. Am i wrong at assuming that the DTS 610 bridges a gap between the PC and another home theatre? That would mean, my PC would output to that DTS 610, and then my klipsch speakers would not be hooked up anymore (it takes 3 analog outputs). My goal here is to have something like the front drive bay of the creative card take in the optical (square) in like it does now, but decode the 5.1 into 3 analog channels i suppose.

Thanks for the many responses. Apologies if i do not understand the above comments, or if this question has already been answered.

The first choice was to get the cheapest DDL card you can find but Games will suck on it.

Next time I'll try not to hint and be more direct. All computer Multimedia speakers SUCK, IMHO. Yes even the Klipsch I don't say that trying to be snobbish or an Audiophile. I have two broke sets, Megaworks 610s and Logitech 560z's. After setting up a receiver as a temp, until I could find some more CMSs, I was quickly was won over. I'll never go back again=P I even sold a set of Klipsch Ultras.

Yes, that is correct, the Klipsch would need a Digital input to be compat. My hint was that even a modest Receiver and small speakers would do the trick as well. Then you could just connect the XBox straight to it. Geesh guys I'm using Analog and the 3 cables for right now. I didn't misunderstand you at all but shouldn't have beating around the bush.

I tried the DTS 610, l thought it wasn't worth a 100 extra dollars. I tried the Xplosion and thought its game performance sucked.

 

[lacir]

The point here is not to buy new speakers and a receiver. Just seeing if any cards out there do 5.1 decoding from optical and split it into the 3 analog

Although now i'm getting a better understanding that this is harder on hardware than i would have initially thought

 

[alg7_munif]

Donnie,

A DDL card won't decode a DD signal, it will encode it from a sound source that is inside the PC. A signal from X-Box 360 is already encoded in DD. I didn't pay $189 on the X-Meridian, I paid $199.95 for it and I get a free shipment to europe so not bad for the price because the b-Enspirer is still not sold here(in my country at least).

Lacir,

Try to look up for the Creative DDTS-100 if there is still any on the market. It will do the decoding for you and it'll not cost much. You can connect your speaker to it as my friend used it before to connect his PC speaker with a PS2. A HT receiver is more suitable for unamped speakers but your speaker already has a build-in amp. The DDTS-100 is just a simple decoder box. It has Seven selectable inputs - Three digital optical, one digital coaxial, and three analog stereo

 

[phide]

Or spend $189 on an overpriced X-Meridian that doesn't even feature its namesake LOL! Meridian Lossless Packing. Creative cards ship with a MLP chip, do any of the CMedia cards? Sure it can be done in software LOL!

Who brought this up?

Or you can do this.

The DTS-610 doesn't decode the optical input, it only offers digital pass-through and encoding of analog inputs. For his needs, the only thing it would be doing for him is acting like an optical bridge (and a very expensive one at that).

The first choice was to get the cheapest DDL card you can find but Games will suck on it.

How would this work, exactly?

 

[Donnie27]

Who brought this up?


The DTS-610 doesn't decode the optical input, it only offers digital pass-through and encoding of analog inputs. For his needs, the only thing it would be doing for him is acting like an optical bridge (and a very expensive one at that).


How would this work, exactly?

If he had a receiver, he could use the Computer via Analog to the 610 and the Xbox through either the 610 bypassed or straight to the receiver.

I brought it because a Cheap DDL has Digital In and Analog outs to his Klipsch speakers.

Are you guys so fucking Anti Creative that you skip over one post to challenge the 2nd one?

 

[lacir]

Looks like the DDTS 100 does what i'm looking for. One questionable thing is, by looking at the IGN review (since creative has a lack of information about it):

http://gear.ign.com/articles/449/449167p1.html

Is that it does NOT seem to have a method to output from my sound card to this system. Meaning, any 5.1 output that i usually use via the 3 analog outputs to my klipsch, is unable to be sent to the DDTS-100 where the speakers will NOW be hooked up to. Sure, it can decode the dts optical signal from the 360, but now i just took sound away from my computer. Alas, then I would assume to need some switch to switch between the PC output and the box output (which is just now converting the optical dts to the 3 analog, and wasting all the other features).

So, if i persue this, the next (unwanted, and more expensive) question would be, what card would output dts to optical to where this box can decode and transfer into the 3 analog outputs. That would be a waste, would rather have 3 analog output passthrough to the 3 analog outputs as an option! AHH!

 

[lacir]

Correction, US.CREATIVE.COM does not have any info really, creative.com has more information on it..

After looking at the information on creative.com, it looks like it DOES come with a switch box. Guess they were thinking ahead of me

I suppose this would be the ideal solution for me! $129 rather than spending > $200 for say, some new fancy card that i assumed i would need, is not bad.

TOO BAD they did not just throw the passthrough into the actual system. Now playing with an addition switch. Are there any like-ddts100 products out there from other companies?

Thanks everyone

 

[alg7_munif]

So, if i persue this, the next (unwanted, and more expensive) question would be, what card would output dts to optical to where this box can decode and transfer into the 3 analog outputs.

If I answer that, someone here would really be mad, lol, so I'll just give you a hint, read the first post of the longest active non sticky thread in computer audio or you could try this:

How about this, buy a X-Fi, connect it to DTS-610 to get a DD/DTS signal then connect the DTS-610 to the DDTS-100 to covert it back into analogue for a Creative's analogue surround speaker.

Actually that decoder is the only device I know that is most suitable for a PC speaker. If you are interested then invest on a decent HT receiver and you will not regret it. A fancy set of Logitech Z-5500 is also an option as it comes with a decoder box and you'll get another set of speaker if you said you're willing to buy a card for >$200. Actually I can't find the DDTS-100 on newegg anymore.

 

[lacir]

The us.creative.com site says they have the DDTS100 in stock. My understanding from some feedback here is that it is hard to find, and is not made anymore.

Does us.creative.com actually have this or is this some type of outdated page on their site?

 

[spectrumbx]

I say sell your speakers and buy a Logitech Z-5500. I got mine for $200 shipped.
You can connect optical, coaxial, analog, and mini-plug to it.

http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/details/US/EN,CRID=2,CONTENTID=9486

Compatibility
PC/Mac
CD
MP3
DVD
PlayStation®
Xbox®

I know you said you don't want to buy new speakers, but if you are going to spend more than $100 on a bridge device, you might want to reconsider.

 

[lacir]

I think the options here are getting much worse! I do not want to giveup the speakers

Let's focus on task at hand here, 5.1 decoding to computer. DDTS 100 can do a workaround type of thing...

 

[spectrumbx]

I think the options here are getting much worse! I do not want to giveup the speakers

Let's focus on task at hand here, 5.1 decoding to computer. DDTS 100 can do a workaround type of thing...

Unless you have the lastest Klipsch 5.1 Ultra, you are a fool (or a !!!!!!) to think your speakers might be that much better than the Z-5500.

Anyhow, you need a "live DD/DTS" decoder which no sound card provides.
Hence the Creative Decoder DDTS-100 is what you need as already said.
Bare in mind that you might lose some quality doing "sound card->DDTS-100->speakers" in analog mode.
At the very least, for the Xbox, do a pass-through (you can configure the audigy to make the optical input as a pass-through).

 

[Donnie27]

I think the options here are getting much worse! I do not want to giveup the speakers

Let's focus on task at hand here, 5.1 decoding to computer. DDTS 100 can do a workaround type of thing...

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=326717

At that price, you can give it a shot and if it sucks, EBay it.

 

[lacir]

Unless you have the lastest Klipsch 5.1 Ultra, you are a fool (or a !!!!!!) to think your speakers might be that much better than the Z-5500.

Anyhow, you need a "live DD/DTS" decoder which no sound card provides.
Hence the Creative Decoder DDTS-100 is what you need as already said.
Bare in mind that you might lose some quality doing "sound card->DDTS-100->speakers" in analog mode.
At the very least, for the Xbox, do a pass-through (you can configure the audigy to make the optical input as a pass-through).

I of course do not think they are better. I just don't want something that is working go to waste (and something i am perfectly satisfied for).

You state to make the audigy optical input become a passthrough. Then of course... pass through to what?! Anyway, seems like my only real option is a DDTS-100 as it seems.

 

[phide]

If he had a receiver, he could use the Computer via Analog to the 610 and the Xbox through either the 610 bypassed or straight to the receiver.

Indeed. But he has no receiver, and if he did, he would preferably use analog inputs for his sound card output (as many reasonable quality receivers have component analog inputs) and digital inputs for his Xbox. In his case, the DTS-610 is an entirely useless device.

I brought it because a Cheap DDL has Digital In and Analog outs to his Klipsch speakers.

My question was concerning why you brought up lossless encoding for DVD-Audio, not concerning DDL cards.

Are you guys so fucking Anti Creative that you skip over one post to challenge the 2nd one?

Well, I'm lost. Alright...what did I "skip over"?

From my perspective, lacir, the DDTS-100 is pretty much your best option.

 

[alg7_munif]

In his case, the DTS-610 is an entirely useless device.

In which case is the DTS-610 useful? I've read on AVS forum that the device connecting to a receiver will just create more sound delays as too many conversions are taking place. Creative can do the DTS encoding if they want to and they have showed it with the DTS-610.

 

[Donnie27]

Indeed. But he has no receiver, and if he did, he would preferably use analog inputs for his sound card output (as many reasonable quality receivers have component analog inputs) and digital inputs for his Xbox. In his case, the DTS-610 is an entirely useless device.

Again, it was just a hint I don't think you know what you're talking about here. I hinted and then bluntly stated *MAYBE he should dump these Prizo tweeter carrying speakers and get some real stuff. If you disagree, that's fine. Just don't try to play it any other way.

My question was concerning why you brought up lossless encoding for DVD-Audio, not concerning DDL cards.

Then I'll ask you the same thing about not knowing that MLP is built into Creative Products. Or why another company would name their product after a Feature that's not present on their product? That's like the Copper-less Coppermine LOL!

Well, I'm lost. Alright...what did I "skip over?"

From my perspective, lacir, the DDTS-100 is pretty much your best option.

That might be but I just don't agree. See above why. I explained to him that I have two broke sets of Computer Multimedia speakers and would never buy another set. Then once you hear any half-assed decent system, you or anyone else would quickly see just how poorly even the best of these Computer speakers sound.

 

[Donnie27]

In which case is the DTS-610 useful? I've read on AVS forum that the device connecting to a receiver will just create more sound delays as too many conversions are taking place. Creative can do the DTS encoding if they want to and they have showed it with the DTS-610.

http://www.mobilewhack.com/home_theater/reviews/home_theater_connect_dts-610.html

DTS is proud to once again announce an audio first with Creative, a long time DTS partner," said Brian Towne, senior vice president consumer/pro division at DTS. "Like DTS, Creative is known for adding exceptional consumer value and DTS is honored to bring yet another use of DTS technologies to market in partnership with such an outstanding company."

Blame DRM, not Creative. Sooner or later Creative has to convince its partners that DRM has to be done a different way. I can run Software MLP via PowerDVD 6 full version with 7.1 support. While it's playing I can record it up to 24-96 in 5.1 mode. The recordings are 24bit-96kHz Wave files. Now if I could just find a real DVD or DTS Audio format to convert them.

 

[phide]

Or why another company would name their product after a Feature that's not present on their product? That's like the Copper-less Coppermine LOL!

me·rid·i·an. n. A great circle passing through the two poles of the celestial sphere and the zenith of a given observer.

Many companies use words or terms when naming their products that may not necessarily represent the purpose or the features of the product itself. Meridian Lossless Packaging is not an imaginary celestial circle and the X-Meridian is not called the X-MeridianLosslessPackaging.

you or anyone else would quickly see just how poorly even the best of these Computer speakers sound.

I don't disagree. Computer speakers are, in almost every case, horrible. But the OP is on a budget, and he did say that he wanted to stick with his speakers. The DDTS-100 is expensive, but it should do what he needs it to do and he won't end up blowing his wad on something grander.

I don't think you know what you're talking about here.

Around here, we like to play it straight. Rather than "hinting", I suggest making statements and including pertitnent information or opinions when necessary. I am not a mind reader -- I cannot interpret what I cannot see and nor can the OP.

In which case is the DTS-610 useful? I've read on AVS forum that the device connecting to a receiver will just create more sound delays as too many conversions are taking place.

I'd imagine the DTS-610 is useful to those who don't have cards that support DTSC and have a receiver or pre-amp with optical or digital coaxial inputs and no multi-channel analog audio inputs. It may or may not add a considerable, perceivable delay, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the delay will be something that bothers everyone.

We do know that the 610 is definitely not useful to the OP, though.

 

[Donnie27]

Many companies use words or terms when naming their products that may not necessarily represent the purpose or the features of the product itself. Meridian Lossless Packaging is not an imaginary celestial circle and the X-Meridian is not called the X-MeridianLosslessPackaging.


I don't disagree. Computer speakers are, in almost every case, horrible. But the OP is on a budget, and he did say that he wanted to stick with his speakers. The DDTS-100 is expensive, but it should do what he needs it to do and he won't end up blowing his wad on something grander.


Around here, we like to play it straight. Rather than "hinting", I suggest making statements and including pertitnent information or opinions when necessary. I am not a mind reader -- I cannot interpret what I cannot see and nor can the OP.


I'd imagine the DTS-610 is useful to those who don't have cards that support DTSC and have a receiver or pre-amp with optical or digital coaxial inputs and no multi-channel analog audio inputs. It may or may not add a considerable, perceivable delay, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the delay will be something that bothers everyone.

We do know that the 610 is definitely not useful to the OP, though.

OK!