4th Undersea Cable Cut?

Commander Suzdal said:
Hmmm. Four lines out of commission. Two in the Mediterranean, two in the Persian Gulf. So I Googled "Iran submarine" and turns out they have three surplus Russian Kilo-class boats and a line of mini-subs based on North Korean technology. Qatar and UAE are relatively friendly to the West, both of them allowing the U.S. to operate air bases for operations over Iraq, the Gulf, and potentially against Iran if things heat up there.

Mini-sub cuts cable in Med, passes through Suez shadowing a surface ship, cuts cable in Gulf. As I said, hmmmm...
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That is the most likly scenario.
 
The US doesn't need to cut the cables. They can merely data mine the info going over them and gain much more in terms of an advantage, for whatever supposed conspiracy mission they're running.

If someone was cutting the cables, it would most likely be a 3rd party that actually had something to gain, or another company looking to sabotage another so they could pull a get rich quick ploy.
 
Commander Suzdal said:
Good points--here are some clarifications on mine. The stories posted hadn't mentioned a direct impact on Iran, although I imagine the "traffic to the Middle East" part includes them at least to a degree. As far as Qatar and UAE, I was thinking more of punitive action than trying to affect the U.S. bases there strategically.

I assume a mini-sub is self-hiding if its range is sufficient, unless U.S. task forces are operating close enough to the affected areas to pick it up? My mention of the sub shadowing the surface ship didn't assume that the surface ship was a knowing accomplice. But of course with the resources Iran has, they wouldn't need to move the sub through the Suez--they have enough of them to operate in both areas at once.

To follow up on your needle-in-haystack point, would an undersea cable on the sea floor be quickly covered by silt-muck-algae etc? I could see that making it hard to find them, unless maybe the places where they come ashore are well-defined and you could trace them from there. Another question that comes to mind--how do the repair ships find them?
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They should be easy enough to find, hell, the repair ships find them with relative ease and the cable, once laid is relativly static. A basic metal Detector will find the steel-jacket of the cable.
 
"Most telecommunications experts and cable operators say that sabotage seems unlikely"

That sounds pretty gullible to me at this point.
 
dderidex said:
Say huh?

You realize we've had cables on the ocean floor for literally decades for communication, and in the opening moves of BOTH World Wars, the 'Allied' forces immediately dug up all of the cables going to Germany on the ocean floors and cut them.

For instance, CS Telconia, a British cable ship, cut 5 of the transatlantic cables running to Germany in 1914.
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Do you realize you are talking about the beginning of a century? We have no full mesh networks. Our networks are now designed for direct and full global nuclear war... not a pile of bored soldiers with shovels.

Wake up, it's 100 years later.
 
TheBluePill said:
That is the most likly scenario.
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If you wear tin hats.

w1retap said:
The US doesn't need to cut the cables. They can merely data mine the info going over them and gain much more in terms of an advantage, for whatever supposed conspiracy mission they're running.

If someone was cutting the cables, it would most likely be a 3rd party that actually had something to gain, or another company looking to sabotage another so they could pull a get rich quick ploy.
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Word.

TheBluePill said:
They should be easy enough to find, hell, the repair ships find them with relative ease and the cable, once laid is relativly static. A basic metal Detector will find the steel-jacket of the cable.
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Easy to find? You need to go do some reading. A basic metal detector? lol.

It costs millions for a submarine ship to locate a break in the cable and to even trace the cable, takes millions for them to even get their gear and ship enroute. If it was so easy, you'd be able to take a rubber dingy with your basic radio shack metal detector and find it for them.

TechLarry said:
"Most telecommunications experts and cable operators say that sabotage seems unlikely"

That sounds pretty gullible to me at this point.
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That sound pretty accurate to me at this point. Too many people in these forums wearing tin hats.
 
Ockie said:
Do you realize you are talking about the beginning of a century? We have no full mesh networks. Our networks are now designed for direct and full global nuclear war... not a pile of bored soldiers with shovels.

Wake up, it's 100 years later.
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You keep spouting off about "full mesh networks" like someone that just took a basic Net+ class. The majority of internet traffic flows over a few ultra-high-capacity lines like the FLAG and SeeMeWe Cables that were cut. Just those two took down about 75% of the capacity for the region.

As for surviving a nuclear war, sure.. the cables under the water will survive, but I dont think a good chunch of the land-based infrastrucure would if it were an all out global event. Hell.. The disruption to network services after 9/11 was huge due to the infrastructure in just one building.

The world isnt as redundant as you think.
 
TheBluePill said:
Hell.. The disruption to network services after 9/11 was huge due to the infrastructure in just one building.
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Like what? Everything that was based out of those buildings was up online again shortly after. Ever hear of remote backups? Almost all companies do it. There are data centers across the country that space is leased out for everything and everyone. Smart companies have more than one backup in place.
 
Ockie said:
If you wear tin hats.

Easy to find? You need to go do some reading. A basic metal detector? lol.

It costs millions for a submarine ship to locate a break in the cable and to even trace the cable, takes millions for them to even get their gear and ship enroute. If it was so easy, you'd be able to take a rubber dingy with your basic radio shack metal detector and find it for them.

.
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Actually, why dont you read up on it a bit;

http://www.k-kcs.jp/english/installations_e.html

Actually, the Technology for Locating and cutting an undersea cable has been out there for nearly a hundred years. Any modestly financed group could outfit a vessle with the equipment needed to do the task. There have been surplus cable-repair ships on the market for as long as there have been cables. In international waters it would be an easy task to do if you had the tools and the intentions.
 
w1retap said:
Like what? Everything that was based out of those buildings was up online again shortly after. Ever hear of remote backups? Almost all companies do it. There are data centers across the country that space is leased out for everything and everyone. Smart companies have more than one backup in place.
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They were, no doubt, it was a small, localized event, but I was using to illustrate a point that networks are prone to failure from a surface or attack. Imagine if several major cities were wiped out. The undersea cables would survive, but there would be way too many problems to worry about.
 
Well yeah... if several major cities were wiped out entirely, we'd have a much larger situation on our hands than worrying about the internet. :p
 
w1retap said:
Well yeah... if several major cities were wiped out entirely, we'd have a much larger situation on our hands than worrying about the internet. :p
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Wut? Fuck the world's problems man, I want my WoW. Get the internet back up. Now!

:D
 
TheBluePill said:
Actually, why dont you read up on it a bit;

http://www.k-kcs.jp/english/installations_e.html

Actually, the Technology for Locating and cutting an undersea cable has been out there for nearly a hundred years. Any modestly financed group could outfit a vessle with the equipment needed to do the task. There have been surplus cable-repair ships on the market for as long as there have been cables. In international waters it would be an easy task to do if you had the tools and the intentions.
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This contradicts your earlier points. Nice one.

So much for your comment that you just need a basic metal detector... now you are talking about surplus ships and equipment, and an outfitted group.


Nice. lol
 
TheBluePill said:
You keep spouting off about "full mesh networks" like someone that just took a basic Net+ class.
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Ohh, ahh, that burned. Next time try using a more serious insult, I think a 5th grader could come up with that one. :rolleyes:
 
But Ockie, it's just that easy. All you need to be is a multi-millionaire with a crew and a rig.
 
w1retap said:
The US doesn't need to cut the cables. They can merely data mine the info going over them and gain much more in terms of an advantage, for whatever supposed conspiracy mission they're running.
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unless of course they only have the ability to monitor the traffic going in and out of the cables that are left:eek:
 
It would hardly be worth their efforts with the systems they already have in place.
 
It's the internet.

15yr old kid blogs = truth

They know more than the government. Get with the trends.
 
You're all wrong.

... it's the Scientology peeps striking back against anon & all the other hacker groups! :D
 
Ockie said:
This contradicts your earlier points. Nice one.

So much for your comment that you just need a basic metal detector... now you are talking about surplus ships and equipment, and an outfitted group.


Nice. lol
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There are several ways to do it, with a budget or without. The point is this, it is more than within the realm of possibility that someone cut a few undersea cables intentionally, it has been done before during war time and is a viable means of terrorisim if a group were so inclined.
 
Ockie said:
Or a metal detector and a fishing pole I guess :p
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Actually, you could Dredge for it if you knew the direction and a general location of the cable, given the water was shallow enough, close to shore even. Just put your dredge on a spool with a clutch.

Take a pass over the area with a high power metal detector (no,not a radioshack $99 detector) on a weighted drag line.

It could probably be home brew if one were so inclined.
 
They are all glass fiber my friend. The repair ships are actually pretty cool considering what they can do. They literally weld the glass together as well as restore the various layers of insulation, all to specs, AND then they have to put the cable back down on the sea floor safely.

K2rn2g3 said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tytalus
What's in those cables anyways? Copper? Iron? Glass? "Insulation"?

Quote:
SelousSizzle n00bie
Actually with all the news about people stealing copper cabling out of schools and government buildings due to copper prices soaring you may not be far off.

Those cables are fiber optic and there pretty damn big... alot of them are used for military purposes...
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SuperSparky said:
They are all glass fiber my friend. The repair ships are actually pretty cool considering what they can do. They literally weld the glass together as well as restore the various layers of insulation, all to specs, AND then they have to put the cable back down on the sea floor safely.
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There's a sample cable diagram on the page with the article that started all this. There are layers of steel reinforcing strands wrapped around the glass fiber core. If the diagram is a good guide (it says "not to scale") there's actually more steel than glass fiber in the fiber optic cable as a whole.
 
Listen, the treasure hunting theories are bogus. It costs way too much money to go deep sea trolling for enough cable to "steal" only to realize it will take many many miles worth of it to just break even. These cables are broken, not stolen. Fuel, man power, a ship and the equipment must be had before a theft can even be considered. It's much easier to get a better return from an ordinary robbery, and far easier to fence the loot. Fencing an under-sea fiber optic cable is rather obvious.

Also, governments don't need to cut a cable to spy on internet traffic nor to limit it. The CIA has much better ways of doing things than cutting cables.

Genuine possibilities are, from worse to likely:
  • Iran or Al Quida trying to cut off muslims from the evil Internet, or punishing other muslim nations for associating with the west or supporting the USA.
  • Seismic shifting or landslides
  • Suddenly the cables are yummy to sea creatures.
  • Naughty fishermen trolling for fish to sell.
 
I've done a few fiber locates back in the day. We'd use a cable locator. Put the Tx in the JU5 and hook it up to the jacket using either a hoop or more preferably a direct connection to the jacket and ground. I don't remember the max distance it can go, been a fews years since I've done one, but I believe the longest I've done a cable locate was about 3/4 of a mile from the Tx. I'm sure those communication companies would have much more sophisticated locating equipment than what I used.
 
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