4870 x2, Clear Sky, and Catalyst AI

schoenda

Gawd
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So, I am one of the victims of the apparent random slow down ? memory leak in Clear sky with the 4870 x2. I run around 70-90 fps but every few minutes without apparent reason I dip into the teens. Sometimes it recovers after a few seconds, sometimes I have to restart the game. It only happens if I have Catalyst AI turned on...It does not happen at all with AI off.

The trade-off is that turning off AI I stop having random slowdowns into the teens but on avg I lose 20 fps...geez...overall still much better experience with AI off....

My question is with a 4870 x2 am I utilizing only one gpu core with AI turned off? Or am I just missing "optimizations". I cannot get a clear answer on this anywhere.

BTW this is with Cat 8.9, (tried 8.10 but no difference). Running Clear Sky in DX9 enhanced lighting mode at 1920x1200....I have tried a variety of graphic settings and the only thing that seams to cause the random slowdown is the catalyst AI.
 

dark_reign

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I get those random slowdowns as well and I'm using a 4850. It seems like my video card is downclocking because the fan (set on auto) will spin down and then back up when the slowdowns stop. I'll have to try playing the game with AI off and see if it fixes it.

Most likely this is a driver bug with ATI cards.
 

schoenda

Gawd
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Dark, let me know what happens with AI off, my card is water cooled so I cannot listen to the fan, oh well, heat does not seem to be an issue though....I am downloading 3dmark 06 now and will run some shader benches to see performance with ai on v/s off...this should at least tell me if ai off only uses one core on an x2 card
 

dark_reign

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I just tested it with AI off and still get the slowdowns. I first noticed this at the CS base camp and then in other random areas. It could be a problem with the game engine not being optimized for ATI cards. I use DX9 Enhanced Lighting Mode and have tested with both 1680x1050 and 1920x1200 resolutions. Sun Rays are on Low but the problem occurs at anytime.
 

schoenda

Gawd
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so the problem here is my 4870 x2 is basically a 4870 when it comes to playing Clear Sky...why then would I not stuff my 4870 x2 in the garbage disposal and get a 280?

The game experience is fine with ai off, but still, geez, I think it would be better with a single 280...and it is not just stalker...what is going to happen to all the new titles coming out??? Seriously considering upgrading to a 280 just to avoid all this driver shitsence.

I want both cores to work in all apps without ridiculous penalties like the random slowdown.

Any body gots a fix for this?
 

dnottis

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so the problem here is my 4870 x2 is basically a 4870 when it comes to playing Clear Sky...why then would I not stuff my 4870 x2 in the garbage disposal and get a 280?

The game experience is fine with ai off, but still, geez, I think it would be better with a single 280...and it is not just stalker...what is going to happen to all the new titles coming out??? Seriously considering upgrading to a 280 just to avoid all this driver shitsence.

I want both cores to work in all apps without ridiculous penalties like the random slowdown.

Any body gots a fix for this?
First time with a dual card eh? Thats the reason I shit canned my 9800GX2, some games are actually slower with CF or SLI. Others only really use one card.
 

schoenda

Gawd
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Sphere are you sure this applies to the x2 cards as opposed to 2 cards in crossfire?

In any case here are 3d mark scores with AI off and on

AI Off: 16726, sm2 6203, sm3 7791
AI On: 20476, sm2 7493, sm3 10561


Wouldn't I expect closer to double scores with AI on compared to off? That is if AI on = two cores and AI off = one core?
 

schoenda

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Seriously dnottis, I am thinking about how friggin easy and straightforward my single 8800 was...man I am starting to have buyers regret over the 4870 x2 unless something good comes from the driver gods soon.
 

wrangler

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http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1348869

Same here.

I traded one of my 4870's for a Velociraptor to go with my other one so I can see how the Raid 0 guys live. As soon as I sell my other one and I'm finished with a complete reformat and re-install, a 280 is in my future. (hell, I might put my emergency card in and wait till nov-dec to see what appears) Can't deal with this bullshit anymore. The [H] performance evaluation alluded to these "slowdowns" with the ATI hardware and Clear Sky and said the next driver should clear things up but I don't see it happening.
 

Ogilvy

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It was the same story with Shadow of Chernobyl and ATi cards. I had to use Float32 and some other tweaks to cut down the "ghost lag" as I like to call it. It usually happens with dynamic lighting. If you wanted to get rid of that lag altogether in S.T.A.L.K.E.R, you had to run it without any dynamic lighting, effectively running the game in DX8.


I just ran through Clear Sky with a GTX 260 and it was smooth as silk all the way through..but that was with enhanced dynamic in DX9.


I've experienced "ghost lag" with both ATi and nVidia at various times, in XP and Vista with different games. I haven't seen it in a while, but then again I stripped my OS (Vista 32) down to the bare minimum- No indexing, no 3D desktop, no sidebar, many start-up programs shut off, many non-microsoft services shut-down and most of service pack 1 uninstalled. I also turned off automatic updates.


I gotta say...I've never run my games any better. They are all running very well....even Clear Sky, which wasn't the case for me in the original stalker.


I think people are looking to blame the hardware or the driver for "ghost lag". Personally, I think it's the OS. I, too, thought the problem was "downclocking" or "overheating" or "bad power supply" or "bad RAM". What ever it is....I don't believe it's due to just one driver or component or OS config.
 

wrangler

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Ghost lag..........good name.

You know, I don't want to muddy the issue but I have noticed a correlation between ATI, x38/48 and Vista SP1 and "ghost lag" with Clear Sky.

BUT

Like you, I've seen people who have XP and Nvidia cards who reported this issue back in SOC days so...................my 680i-8800GTS-Vista Pre-SP1 did not have the issue.



AND

I thought I had it beat with one card in and Catalyst AI enabled but last night with one 4870-512 in the machine and Catalyst AI enabled it happened again.........drops down to ~5-15 and have to type vid restart.
 

schoenda

Gawd
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Dont get me wrong...Clear Sky is quite playable @ 30-60 FPS at fairly high enhanced dx9 at 1920x1200 with A.I. shut off....it just burns me to have half my card completely useless...

...is this really something that is par for the course with the x2 cards? Is it as common with SLI as Crossfire? I did run an SLI rig when Oblivion was new...had 2 7800's, don't remember any of this...since I installed my x2 I have reinstalled windows and ran driver cleaner and all sorts of shtt that I never had to deal with before.

I am ok with glitches...hell, I have been building systems for years...but honestly, I don't get off wasting 3 hours just getting to where I can run a damn game in crippled mode. AAARRRGGGHH...what me rant?

Please let me hear from the happy 4870 x2 people that everything will be alright. There is a Santa clause isn't there?

Also let me know exactly how to get both cores running so that my x2 becomes the uber beast my e-ego demands...(As he hangs his x2 over the garbage disposal by its weakly gurgling water tube, one hand creeping towards the power switch.)
 

Ogilvy

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Dont get me wrong...Clear Sky is quite playable @ 50-60 FPS at fairly high enhanced dx9 at 1920x1200 with A.I. shut off....it just burns me to have half my card completely useless...

...is this really something that is par for the course with the x2 cards? Is it as common with SLI as Crossfire? I did run an SLI rig when Oblivion was new...had 2 7800's, don't remember any of this...since I installed my x2 I have reinstalled windows and ran driver cleaner and all sorts of shtt that I never had to deal with before.

I am ok with glitches...hell, I have been building systems for years...but honestly, I don't get off wasting 3 hours just getting to where I can run a damn game in crippled mode. AAARRRGGGHH...what me rant?

Please let me hear from the happy 4870 x2 people that everything will be alright. There is a Santa clause isn't there?

Also let me know exactly how to get both cores running so that my x2 becomes the uber beast my e-ego demands...(As he hangs his x2 over the garbage disposal by its weakly gurgling water tube, one hand creeping towards the power switch.)

Hawk it on ebay or return it. Get a GTX 280. Problem solved. ;) :p :eek: :cool:
 

schoenda

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Ogilvy, I did a major rebuild to my water cooling system when I put in the 4870x2...I jsut dont have the heart to tear the damn thing apart again so soon..so in the mean time either there will be big impovements or I will take your advice..With the slew of games coming over the next 1-2 months if I continue to have these constant irritations with ATI drivers and crossfire support I will most certainly return to Nvidia...gotta see some FarCry2 280 v/s 4870 x2 reviews.
 

wrangler

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By the time Far Cry 2 comes out the 55nm 280 should be on the market. THAT is what I will be putting in my system.

Shame really. I bought a fancy X48 motherboard with visions of Crossfire in my head and bleh.....

I will actually NEVER go dual gpu EVER again as long as it requires profiles and driver tricks to work. Biggest baddest single chip card for me from now on.
 

kllrnohj

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Sphere are you sure this applies to the x2 cards as opposed to 2 cards in crossfire?
An x2 *IS* 2 cards in crossfire. They operate in just about the exact same way (both at a hardware and driver level). The x2 cards have a few tweaks, but that is about it.

Have you tried re-installing the drivers + running driver cleaner? Have you tried other drivers (such as betas)?
 

Ogilvy

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Ogilvy, I did a major rebuild to my water cooling system when I put in the 4870x2...I jsut dont have the heart to tear the damn thing apart again so soon..so in the mean time either there will be big impovements or I will take your advice..With the slew of games coming over the next 1-2 months if I continue to have these constant irritations with ATI drivers and crossfire support I will most certainly return to Nvidia...gotta see some FarCry2 280 v/s 4870 x2 reviews.


Haha..I know the feeling.. breaking your system down and rebuilding it can be a pain in the neck. Hey look, the HD 4870 X2 is certainly no slouch...and in many games it probably kicks major ass.


The thing with my views is...I don't want top-of-line OMG look at all the eye candy type of performance. I want just enough to get some good visual quality with high framerates...
 

schoenda

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kllrnohj, I have done multiple reinstalls with and without driver cleaner, by the book, even one brand new vista install...drivers 8.9 and 8.10 beta, have not tried 8.8...in any case nothing but disabling AI stops the slowdowns in Clear Sky.

Thanks everyone for the tips and insights.
 

Dethred

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8.8 Betas don't seem to have this problem, at least with my setup. The lowest it ever goes is in the 30's with everything maxed DX10 and 2xAA. I moved up to the 8.10 RC2 driver and every game was slow as crap. The game itself has inconsistent frame rates in DX10 due to the lighting system and time of day changing.
 

wrangler

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8.8 Betas don't seem to have this problem, at least with my setup. The lowest it ever goes is in the 30's with everything maxed DX10 and 2xAA. I moved up to the 8.10 RC2 driver and every game was slow as crap. The game itself has inconsistent frame rates in DX10 due to the lighting system and time of day changing.
It's not like that. When it's working properly it has the same time of day slowdowns etc. etc. as everybody else. It just drops for no reason........without changing your point of view, you can open the console and type vid_restart and fps will shoot back up to normal.

I solved my problem by selling both of my 4870's and going back to Nvidia.

Just shipped the last one out today. Played everything else really really great.......except for my favorite games of all times. S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Thus, they were dispatched.
 
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