4870 - Dissapointed

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Rob001

Weaksauce
Joined
Aug 15, 2004
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I've had an MSI 8800GT with a zalman cooler since I put my PC together in March. I really love the card, but I thought I could do with an upgrade now since i've moved from a 19" LCD to a more demanding 20" widescreen for gaming, plus theres a load of good high-speced games coming out in the next few months.

I bought a PowerColor 4870 PCS card a week or so ago, which is basically a standard 4870 with a nice big aftermarket cooler fitted onto it. I went for that model with the hope it might be as quiet as my current card, but it turned out to be a lot more noisy at both idle and load.

The noise factor wasn't the only dissapointment though. The performance of the card was completely underwhelming. I saw barely any difference in some games, with Call of Duty 4 being the only one i've tried that stood out in terms of gains (which was expected from looking at benchmarks). Crysis gained about 10-15 frames on the same settings, but badly glitched when I tried the final level against the war ship (this is with the latest cat drivers). I don't know whether it was the drivers to blame. I set the CCC to choose application settings for all the 3D stuff, but I left all of the strange ATi enhancements on (like psuedo-AA or whatever it's called).

Because of the noise, underwhelming performance and glitches, I decided to send it back and stick with my 8800gt a bit longer. Before swapping the cards back I tried some games again on the 4870 so I could see the difference better. Company of heroes on highest dx9 settings ran 60fps with dips as low as 30fps when I jerked the camera around a lot. When I directed some engineers around they appeared to move slightly jerky as well (as through the fps was bad), which was very weird. Trying it out on the 8800gt at the same settings it stayed at 60fps with only a very occasional dip of 1-3pfs even when thrashing the camera around. The engineers moved as smoothly as possible too. As I thought, Crysis didn't have any glitches with the 8800gt, but to me also looked a lot nicer when it was running. I'll note that when I previously had the 8800gt installed I was running 169 drivers, and then installed the latest 178 drivers when I switched back - the difference is amazing! Trying CoD4 again was stunning, since I got massively boosted FPS - the level "creek" was sluggish before, but was now smooth and about 20+ FPS better off.

I think i'm more or less put off trying ATi cards in the near future. It's a shame since i've owned a 9000, 9600XT, and an x800pro and was really pleased with all of them. The new 4870 from my experiences seems like a complete waste of money from a real-world usage standpoint (which is all that matters really).

For me at least, the GTX260 has become the current no-brainer upgrade choice. I was put off initially because of the price difference between it and the 4870, but theres not much in it anymore. Noise seemed to be an issue with the gtx260 as well in the early reviews, but silentpcreview.com has a really encouraging review of Asus's version, which i'll probably pick up in a few months when the prices get even better (thought I might not bother if the 8800GT can handle Fallout3, GTA4 and Left4Dead).
 
My gtx260 seems quiet enough. 4870 performs just as well as the gtx260 if not better. Also the 4870 has better image quality than a gtx260, which is important to some people.
 
Could it be that there were old drivers hanging around on the system, or perhaps the installation was botched? The 4870 should be a nice jump from an 8800GT.
 
inotocracy said:
Could it be that there were old drivers hanging around on the system, or perhaps the installation was botched? The 4870 should be a nice jump from an 8800GT.
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I'd agree, sounds like a decision made in haste before fulling identifying the problem. I went from an 8800GTS G92 clocked past 9800GTX+ speeds to my current 4870 and the upgrade gave a substantial improvement.
 
I had glitching/hiccup issues with my 4870x2 before returning it as well, plus the drivers were awful.. ended up getting a gtx 260 and am very pleased with the performance and most importantly, smooth game play.
 
Also the 4870 has better image quality than a gtx260, which is important to some people.
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Ive been reading stuff like this since I got my C64...ok maybe not so long but really guys, things have change a LOT and they now trade blows when it comes to IQ so its time we stopped using the same comments from many years ago dont you think? ;)
 
Yeah, I noticed almost a 50% improvement on Crysis with HIGHER settings (an 80% improvement with the same ones)... and a 100% improvement in Oblivion... From an 8800GTS 640 clocked to 8800GTX speeds (710mhz core).

I use the default driver with ATI Tray tools rather than the shitty CCC.
 
Well, when I bought my 60 inch plasma. I bought it over another brand because to me, it produced a more film like picture while the other had more of a digital look to it. That being said, I diddn't think for the time that I fooled around with both at the stores one was beter then the other. Maybe this is somewhat what other see in the cards?

shaolin95 said:
Ive been reading stuff like this since I got my C64...ok maybe not so long but really guys, things have change a LOT and they now trade blows when it comes to IQ so its time we stopped using the same comments from many years ago dont you think? ;)
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My 4870 killed my 8800GTS 512 (G92). Especially in COD4. The 3dmark benchmarks didnt show much of an improvement but gameplay was a big improvement. Hell my buddies 4850 was faster then the 8800GTS 512 I had.
 
same story as the other posters. when i upgraded from fairly a well overclocked 8800GT i noticed a huge jump in performance. instead of running Crysis on High @ 1280 i can now run it on High at my native res of 1680x1050. something's up, try running a driver cleaner and reinstalling drivers.
 
Probably some type of problem with your PC's software. I had to do a clean Windows install to get my GTX 280 working properly after having a 9800GX2 and, then, a 4850 in my system. I might have been able to get it working properly by doing some other things; however, my system was working poorly in other ways, so it was time for a complete reinstallation, anyway. Plus, a windows reinstallation nearly assures that things will work properly, afterward.

Before I reinstalled, I was ticked that the GTX 280 performance in Warhammer Online was lower than my 4850's. Oddly, it worked fine in my other games, for the most part; although, I felt that Crysis Warhead performance was lower than it should have been. I haven't reinstalled Warhead, yet, so it is hard to know. Anyway, now I am completely satisfied with the GTX 280.
 
I agree that a 4870 should kill the 8800GT in terms of benchmark results and during actual gameplay. Even my 4850 was noticeably faster than my factory overclocked 8800GT. Both cards worked great with no glitches or stutters.

However, the difference won't be that significant at lower resolutions. For 19", even an 8800GT is overkill. For 20"- 22", a 4850 is fine. Unless you're a huge Crysis fan, you'd probably be fine with that 8800GT until DX11 cards come out in mid-2009.

The noise issue you mention is interesting - this was exactly the reason I replaced my factory overclocked 8800GT card+dual-slot Zalman pre-installed, with the 4850 (reference cooler). The Zalman cooler on the 8800GT was just too noisy for everyday use, especially at idle since the fan always ran at 100%.
While factory overclocked cards with aftermarket heatsinks pre-installed do have advantages for power users who want to squeeze every last FPS out of their systems, cards based on the reference design can be better for everyday use. The 4850 cooler is extremely quiet at idle and doesn't get very loud even at full load - sure, OC potential is probably non-existant but for everyday use the card offers good performance with low noise levels. The 4870 stock cooler is also supposed to be very quiet (at the expensive of higher temps of course).

Edit: A tip if you're looking at video cards with aftermarket coolers pre-installed: Make sure they come with a 4-pin fan. If the fan cable lacks the blue wire, this usually means that the card lacks automatic fan speed control and you'll have to use a Fanmate2 or similar to control the fan manually, remembering to turn it up before starting the game, and manually dial the speed down when you're done with the game.
 
Seems to me like the original OP has left out a huge performance spec, resolution. If you are gaming at 1280 x 1024 you won't see a big jump. Get a higher res monitor, then you'll see just how much better the 4870 is than the 8800GT.
 
shaolin95 said:
Ive been reading stuff like this since I got my C64...ok maybe not so long but really guys, things have change a LOT and they now trade blows when it comes to IQ so its time we stopped using the same comments from many years ago dont you think? ;)
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After seeing the difference first hand...no, the 4800 series has way better IQ than any of Nvidia's offerings. "Way better" is subjective obviously...the sharper the eye...the more noticeable it is. They certainly do not trade blows, lol. That said, I'm perfectly happy with the IQ on my GTX260.
 
I got rid of both of mine because of the hitching. The fps can be above 45 but it still seems jerky or twitchy....like the fps is low but it's not....don't know how to explain it. Random fps drops in CLear SKy...............was not a good experience for me.
 
Keep the 8800 and get a better monitor, 22" or 24". You'll thank me later.
 
I just purchased a Saphire 4870 1GB mainly because of the good reviews I read. It was an upgrade from a heavily overclocked 8800gt and I was completely underwhelmed. Playing Crysis Warhead was a little better than my 8800gt except for the hitches and stutters and I completely uninstalled my old drivers. I played some of my older games and they played alright, but they weren't as smooth as my 8800gt. Even my normal 2D graphics weren't as sharp (1 comparison I made was on some of the boot screeens). I always thought ATI had the better image quality, but not anymore. After 2 weeks of that nonsense, I sent it back and am now shopping for a 260 GTX.
 
Jazzy jeff said:
I just purchased a Saphire 4870 1GB mainly because of the good reviews I read. It was an upgrade from a heavily overclocked 8800gt and I was completely underwhelmed. Playing Crysis Warhead was a little better than my 8800gt except for the hitches and stutters and I completely uninstalled my old drivers. I played some of my older games and they played alright, but they weren't as smooth as my 8800gt. Even my normal 2D graphics weren't as sharp (1 comparison I made was on some of the boot screeens). I always thought ATI had the better image quality, but not anymore. After 2 weeks of that nonsense, I sent it back and am now shopping for a 260 GTX.
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You didn't uninstall your drivers completely then. The difference on the desktop when comparing the 4870 and a G92 is night and day, the 4870 is that much better.
 
The card had more performance than my 8800gt, but since I am using a monitor that is 1280X1024 alot of it is lost. It wasen't a driver problem because the 3Dmark scores were all higher than my 8800gt. The card wasen't that great and I'm not being a fanboy either.
 
Jazzy jeff said:
The card had more performance than my 8800gt, but since I am using a monitor that is 1280X1024 alot of it is lost. It wasen't a driver problem because the 3Dmark scores were all higher than my 8800gt. The card wasen't that great and I'm not being a fanboy either.
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Your monitor is the one holding your card back. Here the solution to your problems. SAMSUNG 2433BW 24 inch Monitor. With its 1920 x 1200, it should put a bit more strain on that 4870 of yours.
 
JohnM said:
After seeing the difference first hand...no, the 4800 series has way better IQ than any of Nvidia's offerings. "Way better" is subjective obviously...the sharper the eye...the more noticeable it is. They certainly do not trade blows, lol. That said, I'm perfectly happy with the IQ on my GTX260.
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Since most are using DVI these days, the quality of the analog outs doesn't really matter anymore. The quality of the analog/VGA out used to be the one advantage Voodoo and Radeon cards had over the Geforce2, back in the day. This was because Nvidia had less control over what components their board partners chose to use for the DACs etc.

With DVI and a good LCD monitor, Nvidia and ATI cards will produce identical image quality at the 2D desktop. If you're seeing a difference, it's just the placebo effect.

ATI has long had better and faster AF, but Nvidia fixed that with the 8800-series. Nvidia is slightly better nowadays, but the two are pretty much indistinguishable. Same with AA quality - ATI is supposed to provide better IQ when using the "special" filters, but the normal Box filters look virtually identical - certainly nothing you'd notice when playing an actual game.
 
Know what i hate, people who post threads then don't respond back leaving people to argue amongst themselves.
 
The 2D graphics were not identical. I am running Vista 32 and when my comp. boots up the 2nd screen is my Raid info. With the HD 4870 the text was blocky and then it would be distorted sometimes. Then the Microsoft logo would come up and the activity bar was also blocky looking. I know this is kind of picky, but it's just what I noticed.
 
Jazzy jeff said:
The 2D graphics were not identical. I am running Vista 32 and when my comp. boots up the 2nd screen is my Raid info. With the HD 4870 the text was blocky and then it would be distorted sometimes. Then the Microsoft logo would come up and the activity bar was also blocky looking. I know this is kind of picky, but it's just what I noticed.
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That's low level VGA 2D... Has absolutely no implications for real in-OS 2D/3D quality...:eek:
 
wrangler said:
I got rid of both of mine because of the hitching. The fps can be above 45 but it still seems jerky or twitchy....like the fps is low but it's not....don't know how to explain it. Random fps drops in CLear SKy...............was not a good experience for me.
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That happens to nearly every video card in Clear Sky.
 
I wasn't expecting so many replies. Hopefully this should answer a few things:

I did do a proper uninstall of the drivers, using driver cleaner and following the steps that are stickied to this forum, so I don't believe i'm at fault really. I do look after my pc and regularly clean crap off it and stuff, so im not sure if a windows reinstall would have helped. I definately wasn't prepared to do one in any case just on the off-chance it'd work.

I do run games at 1680x1050, which I think is enough to have shown a difference between the two cards.

Noise issue on 8800GT - the zalman cooler i've got is quieter than any other running fan in my pc when running below 40% speed (it runs at 30% at idle), and I honestly never notice it. My other fans are quiet too.

"Keep the 8800 and get a better monitor, 22" or 24". You'll thank me later."
- no thanks, the 2007WFP is one of the best purchases ive ever made!
 
maybe so, but there comes a time to move on. i have a camera that was a good purchase 5 years ago, but today 3mp doesnt make it.
if you check the game benchmarks here and at toms vga charts, the 4870 performs about 50% better than the 8800gt at 16x10 (most high settings) in crysis, assassins creed, cod4, q4, hl2, mass effect, etc. the 4870 usually matches 8800gt sli.
 
20" widescreen is /anything/ but demanding. 1680x1050? Fewer pixels than 1600x1200. You don't get to claim your resolution is 'demanding' anymore until 1920x1200+.

Also, to the OP I'll say what pretty much everyone else has said, in fewer words: You're doin' it wrong.
 
vanilla_guerilla said:
maybe so, but there comes a time to move on. i have a camera that was a good purchase 5 years ago, but today 3mp doesnt make it.
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If he's got an IPS 2007WFP, that'll give better picture quality than most 24" monitors currently available, barring those that cost around the $1000 mark.

From the reviews I've read for the 4870, it should give a noticable performance gain at 1680x1050. Of course, it is all dependant on the thing running smoothly and not having low minimum framerates. Even though everyone quotes averages, minimums are more important to actual playability and are heavily reliant on everything running properly and stable.
 
Unless you go anything larger than 1900x1200... You won't see significant improvement in your games with HD4870... I have a 26" with 1900x1200 resolution and just upgraded from 9800GTX+ (never owned 8800 I assume it's slower than 9800gtx+?), I'm telling ya, the difference is HUGE, in games I play. (Source Engine Games, Age of Empires III, and WOW)

So stick with 8800 till ya go 1900x1200... and then you'll appreciate 4870 a hella out more... but if you go 30"... you'll want some good SLI setup, a 280 or 4870x2...

3d mark vantage had a 50% boost in score points running in 1920x1200 (from my own test)

Fan Noise, I'd admit nvidia is doing a better job at controling their temps and keep the fan's noise lower than ATI's reference fan designs.

I used both company's cards and I used both large and small LCD so I KNOW. I used a 19" LCD up till last month before I went up to 26", with that 19" I can use a real crappy x1950xt to get all the games running smooth (it's about 30% performance of a hd4870...)

People who's talking about 2D performance... It's all subjective to your own mind... In today's video card world there is no difference in 2D performance anymore (10 years ago maybe)... they all perform flawlessly, both ATI and nVidia, under DVI output of course... If you still using a VGA output, then I don't know and I think you are a bit outdated...

In fact, if you want my OPINION. Nvidia's multi monitor management is real crappy compared to ATIs... Again I used both with newest drivers so I know...
 
my 4870 is a tad louder than my old x800xl, but dang, it isnt much, im suprised, i mean, i must be partially deaf or something because of listening to loud music, but i can hear it yes, but in no way is it annoying.

i wonder what it would be like to have perfect hearing, maybe then the fan might be loud, but i doubt it's anything over 30 dba idling and maybe 40dba while under load.

which i dont care about because when it's under load, theres usually sound coming out of my speakers that drown it out.

all well, best of luck to you :)
 
I have just recently did a new build and it included a 4870. My games ran like shit, even GRID! Then sp1 was installed and all was well
 
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