![[H]ard|Forum](/styles/hardforum/xenforo/logo_dark.png){kind=logo}
-
Some users have recently had their accounts hijacked. It seems that the now defunct EVGA forums might have compromised your password there and seems many are using the same PW here. We would suggest you UPDATE YOUR PASSWORD and TURN ON 2FA for your account here to further secure it. None of the compromised accounts had 2FA turned on.
Once you have enabled 2FA, your account will be updated soon to show a badge, letting other members know that you use 2FA to protect your account. This should be beneficial for everyone that uses FSFT.
4850 Launch Delayed
- Thread starter kppanic
- Start date
heatlesssun
Extremely [H]
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2005
- Messages
- 44,154
Once again AMD is late to the party. If two 4870's were competitive to a GTX 280 why change the date? At least you can say you have something that competes with the top of the line at about the same price even it's two cards. They better than they've been doing in the performance market.
AMD just looks to have given up. They have good stuff, I've bought plenty of AMD/ATI products over the years. But they simply have been so out of the performance market know that it seems like they are happy to be second fiddle to Intel and nVidia.
AMD just looks to have given up. They have good stuff, I've bought plenty of AMD/ATI products over the years. But they simply have been so out of the performance market know that it seems like they are happy to be second fiddle to Intel and nVidia.
cannondale06
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2007
- Messages
- 16,180
did you even look at the reason why there is a delay? the 4870 wasnt going to be ready so now they will launch both the 4850 and 4870 on the same day.
i thought the 4850 was supposed to launch 6/18 with the 4870 gddr4 a week later. having both the 4850 and the 4870 gddr5 releasing on the same day sounds like a good idea to me. it'll be interesting to see how 2x 4870's stack up against a single gtx280 as a precursor to how the 4870x2 might perform.
But that was known for a while now. HD 4870 would only be paper-launched, while the HD 4850 would be ready for June 16th. I don't see much sense in delaying what will be (most likely) their most profitable product, just so that the HD 4870 with GDDR5 is available too. I see more people interested in buying a HD 4850 than a HD 4870 which will cost over $100 more.
Well, let's just hope there are no more delays.
Not just Phenom. R600 launch was also plagued with too many delays. Over 6 month delays actually, though I'm sure that won't happen this time.
You mean 6 months? Like what happened to the the x1800s? And even when they did come out they were barely comparable to 7800GTXs.
Course, I bought a 7800gtx right when they came out, so no skin off my back.
snowysnowcones
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2006
- Messages
- 1,108
I think it's a smart move by AMD. If the 38xx launch is anything to go by, everybody wants the 4870, and not 4850. Hopefully, they'll be enough supply.
DarkLegacy
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2004
- Messages
- 1,097
I bet there share holders think much differently than you do =).
Actually, it was the other way around. Everyone wanted a HD 3850, instead of HD 3870, simply because for less money you had essentially the same card, which with a small overclock could easily reach or surpass HD 3870 levels.
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2008
- Messages
- 5,297
Isn't this exactly how both the 18xx and 29xx delay fiascos began? They were originally supposed to release shortly after their nV competitors (G70, G80), but were delayed a week, then a month, then two, then six months. The Phenom launch was a similar, albeit not exact, delay situation.
This is becoming very formulaic for AMD/ATI: drive up interest in a to-be-released product right before the competition launches, then delay, delay, delay -- doing so keeps people's interest and under-cuts nV's sales because ATI fans will wait if they think a release is right around the corner (when in reality it is still several months away) Do we have such short memories...
^ I also remember ATI fans kept stating the delays were a "smart move" every time the date got pushed back...
This is becoming very formulaic for AMD/ATI: drive up interest in a to-be-released product right before the competition launches, then delay, delay, delay -- doing so keeps people's interest and under-cuts nV's sales because ATI fans will wait if they think a release is right around the corner (when in reality it is still several months away) Do we have such short memories...
^ I also remember ATI fans kept stating the delays were a "smart move" every time the date got pushed back...
Yes, but that's unlikely to happen this time. The X18xx had a problem that required a full respin of the silicon, which caused the delay. R600 was the real failure, because besides the leakage with the 80nm process, I don't remember an exact problem with the chip that could cause such a long delay. Except of course, the fact that they were trying to create a part to compete with G80, but failed and just went ahead and released the HD 2900 XT, to at least try and recover part of the money invested in R600.
As for RV770, there are several reports that indicate that at least the HD 4850 is already in the hands of retailers, so everything seems ok. But I don't see the need to delay the HD 4850 launch, because of the HD 4870. The HD 4850 will certainly be the best bang for your buck, unless NVIDIA releases something better in the same price range...
Well, if the numbers are even close, both cards will be the only cards on the market to offer their level of performance at their expected price range. Generally, the lower prices sell more units since more people can afford them, so I'm sure the 4850 will outsell the 4870. I also think the 4850 will offer a higher relative price/performance ratio than the 3850, considering the cards on the market then and now, so it will be a more desirable card.
The report says, "tens of thousands of boards just sitting there." There's no reason they would sit on that stock any longer than necessary.
Anyway, the week delay isn't a big deal. I'm looking forward to seeing real reviews, real numbers, real prices and finally real cards on the shelves in a short few weeks.
The report says, "tens of thousands of boards just sitting there." There's no reason they would sit on that stock any longer than necessary.
Anyway, the week delay isn't a big deal. I'm looking forward to seeing real reviews, real numbers, real prices and finally real cards on the shelves in a short few weeks.
Aren't the new Nvidia cards way more expensive than the new Ati cards?
I don't think the delay will matter much, I think the 4850 is going against the new 9800gt/8800gts 512mb and the 4870 is against 9800gtx. At least in terms of pricing thats how I see it.
8800GTX was like $200 more than 2900XT but then again 8800GTX was all alone for like 9 months.
I think this is a good idea for ATI to delay launch since people will be praising how much GTX 280 is uber-fast and treat the 4850 as another mid range card if released at same time.
I think this is a good idea for ATI to delay launch since people will be praising how much GTX 280 is uber-fast and treat the 4850 as another mid range card if released at same time.
more like 100 more. some 2900xt's retailed for 419.99 at launch while you could get a stock clocked gtx for around 550 out the door. if the 4850's launch at the same price as the 3850 256's, they're going to sell very well. especially if their rumored performance matches that of the 9800gtx.
And what exactly is the advantage here ?!
Hard-launching in June 16, would give them some profits and after the GTX 200 cards are released, the HD 4850 would still be considered mid-range, since it's not supposed to compete with NVIDIA's high-end offerings. I see no sense in delaying the HD 4850, just because of HD 4870...
Rumored performance of the HD 4850 puts it below the 9800 GTX and between the 8800 GT and 8800 GTS 512, which is exactly where rumored prices put it.
Yes, but the new NVIDIA cards are also supposed to be way more powerful than the new ATI cards.
Doodies said:
And that's what rumors point to aswell, though the HD 4870 is supposed to be faster than the 9800 GTX, around HD 3870 X2 levels.
Trepidati0n
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2004
- Messages
- 9,269
Is the delay occuring because of newer driver release for the 4xxx and they want review sites to have another chance to review again before results are pubilshed? I mean, if you can increase all your scores by few %, would a delay not be worth it at that point?
cannondale06
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2007
- Messages
- 16,180
thats got nothing to do with what I was replying to. he was talking about the 4870 being delayed when thats not the case.
And I was replying to your comment:
cannondale06 said:
We already knew that the HD 4870 wasn't going to be ready to be launched with the HD 4850 June 16 release. But now, they effectively delayed probably their most profitable product, to coincide with the launch of their less profitable product, which doesn't make much sense.
cannondale06
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2007
- Messages
- 16,180
thats fine and dandy but there was no need to quote me since my reply to him had nothing to do with your point. anyway moving on....
snowysnowcones
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2006
- Messages
- 1,108
I doubt they're going to loose sales to the GTX 260 if it's rumored price is correct. (~$500?)
Which is precisely why this delay doesn't make any sense. They will not lose sales against a more powerful card and thus at a different price range, so why delay it ? Why not receive the profits from that week ?
Well that's why their partners were complaining since they thought it could have taken a lot of sales if it was launched this past week at Computex
But I also sense they're getting Cat 8.6 ready and wanted to release the cards so they didn't coincide with Nvidia too closely since the two cards are in different markets, and not give consumers the idea that they failed again when they weren't meant to be in the same bracket
Plus, if performance *is* good and the GT200 supply problems make this a repeat of the 8800GT (but at a much higher price), it'll make AMD look good when they come out the next week with a high performance/price ratio card in high supply
But I also sense they're getting Cat 8.6 ready and wanted to release the cards so they didn't coincide with Nvidia too closely since the two cards are in different markets, and not give consumers the idea that they failed again when they weren't meant to be in the same bracket
Plus, if performance *is* good and the GT200 supply problems make this a repeat of the 8800GT (but at a much higher price), it'll make AMD look good when they come out the next week with a high performance/price ratio card in high supply
And what exactly is the advantage here ?!
Hard-launching in June 16, would give them some profits and after the GTX 200 cards are released, the HD 4850 would still be considered mid-range, since it's not supposed to compete with NVIDIA's high-end offerings. I see no sense in delaying the HD 4850, just because of HD 4870...
You also have to consider how many they are releasing onto the market. If they dont have enough boards anyways it really doesnt matter if they launch a week later, since they will still be selling out.
That's true, but again, early reports indicated that retailers already had lots of HD 4850s in stock, so delaying their launch because of HD 4870s, doesn't make much sense to me, since it's probably their most profitable product.
The drivers may be the real problem. They just didn't have them ready for the June 16th release and they had to delay the HD 4850 because of that.
As for the 8800 GT, the problems were not related with supply in the sense that there were few of them around. The problem was extremely high demand. Remember that it was a near 8800 GTX performance card, for $250. Stocks of dozens of cards in various e-tailers were sold in a matter of hours, which made its price sky-rocket and led NVIDIA to request TSMC to increase production of G92 chips.
The card that NVIDIA had in short supply in more or less recent times, was the 7800 GTX 512. Demand was also high, but there were very few cards to begin with.
ATi went pretty far trying to differentiate the 70 and the 50 this generation (rumored price difference is ~$100). IOW, they're almost two different markets and it takes a bit to get people to jump to the higher card. This delay implies to me that by releasing both at the same time, they're hoping people who might have gone for the 4850 will instead get the 4870. Just a guess...
Personally I'll only get it if I can CF it with a 4870X2 much later.
Personally I'll only get it if I can CF it with a 4870X2 much later.
Well that won't last long if nvidia monster came out as expected but somehow they have low yields of their g200 monster on 65nm. Hm i wonder why
Hope they'll skip onto 45nm soon but tsmc isn't in any hurry to migrate on 45nm. As it seems probably ongoing negotiations for joint venture with amd in their old fab have something with that.My wishes are with your hopes.
You mean 6 months? Like what happened to the the x1800s? And even when they did come out they were barely comparable to 7800GTXs.
Course, I bought a 7800gtx right when they came out, so no skin off my back.
it was just an 2 month after g70 end of Aug2005 vs end of June, and they all was pretty unavailable just after paper launch. just like any product on oversaturated market waiting for old stocks to be cleaned from shelves. but this is just different time for launching and people seems appealing for just one card like hd4850
evolucion8
Gawd
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2006
- Messages
- 917
You mean 6 months? Like what happened to the the x1800s? And even when they did come out they were barely comparable to 7800GTXs.
Course, I bought a 7800gtx right when they came out, so no skin off my back.
The Radeon X1800XL came three months later after the debut of the 7800GTX and the X1800XT came one month later after the X1800XL, and it was able to match and often outperform it shortly until the 7800GTX 512 arrived so no big deal there. But the R600 was delayed full 6 months and was unable to match the GTX but only the GTS, so both stories are very different.