4690k 80c under load with Corsair H60

biggles

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I just purchased a new computer and it is running hotter than it should. OCCT and Prime 95 give load temps of around 80c after 10 minutes. This is at stock speeds in a Corsair 450d Obsidian case. Idle temps look OK at around 32c. Should I remove the H60, reapply thermal paste, and reinstall the heatsink? I am guessing load temps should be in the high 50s or low 60s with this setup. Does that sound right?
 

Araxie

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ambient temperature? its well ventilated the case? how its configured the h80i (exhaust or intake)..?. its kinda high taking into consideration that other people have lower temps even with little overclocks of 4.0-4.2ghz.. so the first thing you should check its the backplate.. the backplate have a unique mount position and its this one (note that the backplate have some mark that should be aligned with the motherboard retention bolts..)


check that.. and check if its loose.. if that the case then maybe you should add a couple of washers between the backplate and the mobo to make it a tight mount.. (some motherboards have this issue and its fast solved with some nylon washers or o'rings..)..
 

biggles

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75f/24c is ambient temp. The Corsair Obsidian 450d has very good airflow according to the reviews. This is my first experience with liquid cooling, so I don't know if it is configured for intake or exhaust. Which would be better in this situation?
 

Araxie

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intake would be the better, as the unit will draw fresh air front outside the case you can save some degrees, i know the case have a very good airflow but its also to take into consideration where its placed the case, its not the same to have it in a close space lets say under a desk than have it in a open space lets say above a desktop... anyway can you check what i've mentioned?. the thing with the backplate its a serious thing to check.. i do not have that problem actually with my mobo, but i had it in a secondary machine with another h80i i've solved with o'rings.. the load temp in that system under p95 small FFT droped from 95C to 80-84C..
 

FelixRussia

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Just from my experience with an Antec Kuhler 620, the 120mm closed loop coolers get up to temperature really fast under heavy load. Unless you have really high quality fans on the radiator, eventually the fan(s) just can't remove heat fast enough. Temps shouldn't be as extreme under casual conditions though. Normally during gaming, I'd see the temps sit in the 60s or so.
 

biggles

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From the back of the case I can see the Corsair label sticker on the fan. Does that mean the fan is drawing air in or blowing it out the back? I am guessing intake since I can't feel air blowing at my hand when placing it at the back of the case. Would it be better to stress test with games for load temps instead of prime 95? I have read elsewhere it is unrealistic to have the computer using 100% of all 4 cores for an extended period of time.

I'll check the backplate later, have to go to work soon...
 

Araxie

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if you see the black/white Sticker on the fan in the back of the case then the fan its exhaust.. check the image below, the black/white label position indicate where the airflow direction (yes, that where the 4 bases of the rotor are..)... check if both fans are in the same direction....





yes, you can test your machine with gaming, heavy CPU games preferably as for example Crysis 3, BF4 multi, Far cry 3.. but its also good to test with P95/aida64/IBT for those reasons, to check if really something wrong with the cooler..
 

biggles

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Just one fan at the back of the case. After doing some research it appears to be the h60 fan which replaced the back case fan. So I plan to check the backplate this weekend. Also, it sounds like I should try reversing this fan to intake instead of exhaust. I hit a max of 62c on cpu2 playing Watch Dogs. Is that a reasonable temperature for the H60 in this situation?
 

Flopper

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I just purchased a new computer and it is running hotter than it should. OCCT and Prime 95 give load temps of around 80c after 10 minutes. This is at stock speeds in a Corsair 450d Obsidian case. Idle temps look OK at around 32c. Should I remove the H60, reapply thermal paste, and reinstall the heatsink? I am guessing load temps should be in the high 50s or low 60s with this setup. Does that sound right?
you never see those loads with anything else you do.
Gaming, videoediting etc..wont load the computer like those programs do.
todays cpu have small cores and IHS often wont have the optimal transfer of heat either.

I use a H55 and see 60c with gaming and I use 1.35v with it.
 

Aaron_ATX

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62c should be ok while gaming. Especially with that gpu dumping heat in your case.

But...if your ambient temp in the room is 24c and idle temp is 30+ that seems a bit off to me. Not like it will hurt anything but, still. seems like it should be lower to me. May just be a few kittens stuck in your rig somewhere.

Also ensure that the powerheader you have the pump (or fan) plugged into isnt limiting the setups effectiveness.




Personally with my h90 I opt for the exhaust style setup. Very much a different setup but here is a pic of the way I ran my corsair AIO.

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1817461&highlight=h90
 

biggles

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The gtx 780 uses the reference cooler, which pushes hot air out of the back of the case.

What does it mean when you say "ensure the powerheader... isn't limiting the setups effectiveness"? What is a powerheader?
 

Araxie

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What does it mean when you say "ensure the powerheader... isn't limiting the setups effectiveness"? What is a powerheader?
that mean that you have to be sure that the motherboard its delivering full 12v through the fan header you are connecting the pump. to be sure, you have to enter in BIOS and deactivate the motherboard fan control in that fan header.... it generally have the option "standard" which limit the power and make the pump perform bad..
 

biggles

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Okay, I figured out two things that were restricting the cooling performance. First, the h60 fan was set to exhaust, and Corsair says to use it as intake. Second, like Araxie said, the bios setting was on "normal" instead of full for the pump. The PC now maxxed out at 74c after 5 minutes of OCCT. That is better than before but still not as good as it should be. So, I guess I will have to remove the heatsink, reapply thermal paste, and test again. If it doesn't improve perhaps it should be returned to Corsair for being defective.

http://www.amazon.com/review/RDNKHT9TJ2PSE/ref=cm_srch_res_rtr_alt_2

Anyway, based on this amazon review, I should be getting around 50c at load. That is with a 4670k which has similar thermal performance to the 4690k.
 

TheRapture

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Anyway, based on this amazon review, I should be getting around 50c at load. That is with a 4670k which has similar thermal performance to the 4690k.
74c is nothing to worry about. Depending on your ambient temp and case airflow, that could actually be spot on.

Remember, Intel says these cpu's will live a long life at 90c and won't even throtytle till 95c-100c !!!. These aren't like the days of AMD cpu's that would throttle at 70c.

I just got my new Fractal R4 going...with my H80i at 1500rpm (stock fans) and the two stock R4 fans at max...this damn thing is very, very quiet...and with the R9-290 and the cpu at full load with Prime 95 and RTHDRBL going full screen at 16x AA....my cpu runs 85c and the gpu 90c. My cpu is at 4.5ghz though so that's a lot of cpu heat. With real games (Metro Last Light) the cpu runs only around 65c and the gpu 85c.

Perfectly stable, quiet, powerful...and well under spec.
 

TheRapture

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TheRapture, I didn't pay all of that extra money for a Corsair H60 to get the same performance as the stock cooler.
http://www.digitalstormonline.com/u...-review-and-overclocking-benchmarks-idnum301/

Touche! While I still say 74c is nothing to worry about....I do agree that something could be done to "fix" your issue.

Let me ask you this, is your backplate for the cpu block loose? In the picture above, that x shaped backplate could be the culprit! On my asrock board, when I had the standoffs installed, I literally had 2-3 mm of vertical slack. No big deal, once the cpu block was secured to the standoffs it pulled it against the cpu and seemed tight. HOWEVER, like I noted, I was seeing 85c-88c load temps on the cpu as described above, especially with the gpu loaded 100%. No stability issues, but it seemed maybe a bit high for watercooling, even at 4.5ghz. My H80i is set up with the fans pulling outside air in since I have a top fan in my Fractal case that exhausts, so it gets fresh cool air all the time.


I just redid mine...the backplate was oriented correctly as in the pic above...but I added 4 small nylon washers in between the backplate and the rear of the board to pull the backplate assembly a bit further away from the board. This means that when I attached the block again, I can now apply a bit more pressure to the cpu heat spreader. It definitely feels "firmer" and you can see the arms flex a bit more when attached to the cpu. Previously, the attachment screws would bottom out on the standoff threads just after the block was firm against the heat spreader. now you can feel the tension a few threads sooner and the entire assembly is just more solid.

Result? Under Prime95, I am seeing a HUGE 7c to 9c drop in cpu temps! My cpu is sitting here at 77-78 degrees! Do a google search and you will see that this is a common issue with certain board and H series coolers. For instance.... http://forum.corsair.com/v3/showthread.php?t=112940

My fans now run slower...the cpu is cooler...the rig is quieter yet....
 

biggles

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Yes, the backplate is loose. I have been researching this issue all week. I have a trouble ticket with Corsair support asking for their official position/solution for the loose backplate. A guy on the Corsair forums also suggested simply pressing down on the heatsink while the cpu is at load to test if this reduces the temps.

If I go with the washer solution, would I need to remove the thermal paste and reapply? I think yes since the heatsink would need to be removed to install the washers.

This has turned into a real headache. I should have simply gone with a Cooler Master Hyper 212 or Thermalright True 140. Lots of wasted hours this week fixing these issues.
 

TheRapture

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Yeah you have to completely remove the cpu block and backplate so you can add the nylon/plastic washers around the little "pegs". I used some nylon washers I had left over from an old waterblock kit I had several years ago. You can get those washers at an automotive store as well probably, or some place like True Value hardware or similar stores. If your case has an opening around the cpu area, you can just pop off both sides of your case to access the backplate, literally took me ten minutes to add those washers.

I have been a razor blade thermal paste guy for years. I just put about 5 small "drops" of the TIM on the cpu heat spreader in an "x" shape, then I use a single edge razor to spread it evenly and thinly across the entire heat spreader. The method is not real important as long as you spread it thin and even. I used Noctua NT-H1 cuz' I got a tube of it cheap. Any decent paste will work, the application is far more important than the brand.
 

TheRapture

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I re-ran IntelBurnTest....that is a serious heat producer. Previous to the washer fix, I would hit 98-99c on 10 runs at "high" stress level. I now am getting a maximum of 91c. A drop of 7-8 degrees on that test is rather large.

Idle temps should really be about 5c to 7c higher than ambient temps, that would be completely in line with normal results.

With the 450D case, those two front intake fans should be adequate to get fresh air in, and your H60 in exhaust mode should be fine. Try reversing the fans, it may help a bit though, and with all three fans intaking air, you will have positive case pressure. Leave it whichever way provides the best results. I doubt that is an issue though.

You also realize that OCCT and Prime95 will give temps that are basically "worst case" scenario, that review on Amazon is probably only using a game or such as a heat stress, which would be 15-20 degrees cooler than those 100% cpu load programs. Don't depend on Amazon "reviews" at all hahaha. Another thing, are you running adaptive voltage for the cpu? Some boards will run a bit too much voltage to the cpu and result in higher temps, you should be able to dial in a max voltage setting and get lower temps as well.

According to your post, Watch Dogs gives you a load temp of 62c? Well, if you "fix" the backplate and get a 4c to 5c drop...then you are in PERFECT territory as far as load temps for that H60. I am going to re-run my tests at 3.5ghz (same speed as your stock 4690k) and report back.

<edit> Prime95 torture test (in place Large FFT's) results in load temps of 68c at 3.5ghz and 1.26 vcore (I could not be bothered to lower my core volts hahah).

Personally I think all you need to do is add those washers and you should be good to go.
 
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biggles

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If I remove the heatsink and reapply TIM I will go with Arctic Silver 5 since that is what I have at home. It is not the top paste anymore but it is good enough. I agree that the type of paste is less important than applying it correctly.

I will have to double check on the free play or space for the backplate. Reason I say that is I tried pressing on the heatsink with my hand (case open of course) and I could not detect a change in load temps. If the seal was not tight enough I was predicting a drop in temps with this test.

My voltage at load was 1.031v according to cpuz. Is this high, and would it lead to higher than normal temps? Which bios setting should I look for in order to supply the 4690k with the right amount of volts?
 

Araxie

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your voltage its really perfect if that its under prime95. haswell chips tend to be a little overvolted under p95, 1.031v its great really... you're fine in that aspect. the exact measures of the washers you need are 4mm*1.2mm i've used O'rings which i consider it even better for the job and i've received a nice very nice drop in temperatures due that with my h100i under p95 i've dropped from 95 to 81C which its great even in my city where temps are tropical so are constant 27-33c
 

TheRapture

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Yes that voltage is absolutely great. I am betting that you just need the washer fix! Indeed it makes a proven difference!

If that doesn't fix the temp issue...then your chip has a bad interface between the heat spreader and die, aka the de-lid trick.
 
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biggles

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Yes that voltage is absolutely great. I am betting that you just need the washer fix! Indeed it makes a proven difference!

If that doesn't fix the temp issue...then your chip has a bad interface between the heat spreader and die, aka the de-lid trick.
Would you explain the second paragraph regarding a bad interface and the de-lid trick. Could I test for this by installing another heatsink? I have a Prolimatech Armageddon from the old PC that could be used for this test.
 

TheRapture

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Someone posted a pic above. The heat spreader on the Has well cores uses some sort of TIM between it and the cpu die itself. Some people have found that it was over applied by Intel and this can cause a chip to run hotter than normal. De-lidding means removing that big silver heat spreader and reapplying the TIM properly. Done wrong you can kill your cpu. Google "delidding haswell"...it's pretty entertaining, especially the vice method. I would do the washer fix first.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SFh4LA_byE&app=desktop
 
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biggles

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Someone posted a pic above. The heat spreader on the Has well cores uses some sort of TIM between it and the cpu die itself. Some people have found that it was over applied by Intel and this can cause a chip to run hotter than normal. De-lidding means removing that big silver heat spreader and reapplying the TIM properly. Done wrong you can kill your cpu. Google "delidding haswell"...it's pretty entertaining, especially the vice method. I would do the washer fix first.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SFh4LA_byE&app=desktop
Thanks, I googled this and delidding is too risky for now. Here is my to do list:
1. Washer method (I have been holding off in the hopes that Corsair tech support would comment on this, no response yet). This would also allow me to redo the thermal paste. Plus when I take the heatsink off the cpu I should be able to tell if the contact was solid across the surface area of the cpu.
2. Add top exhaust fan 120mm to Obsidian 450d case (when the H60 is installed this fan is removed from the back of the case, so I would just move it to the top).
3. Switch H60 with Prolimatech Armageddon from my old PC. I suspect this air cooler would perform similarly to a properly functioning H60. This is my last resort in case I can't get the H60 working correctly.

Thanks for all the feedback. I will update as progress is made.
 

biggles

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One more question: what is the exact size washer I should get? Does it matter if the washer is made of metal, plastic, or rubber? I plan to go to Home Depot or Orchard Supply this week to buy the washers and want to make sure I get the right ones.
 

Araxie

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its better to use O'rings (but harder to find) but also because its rubber it will mold and apply better pressure evenly to the backplate.. the sizes are more or less 4mm*1.8mm or at least those are what im using right now in my h100i.
 

TheRapture

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One more question: what is the exact size washer I should get? Does it matter if the washer is made of metal, plastic, or rubber? I plan to go to Home Depot or Orchard Supply this week to buy the washers and want to make sure I get the right ones.
I had some small nylon/plastic ones about 1.5mm thick that came off of an old water cooling mount kit from years ago. Do not get metal! As noted, o-rings would work GREAT, you could get those from an auto parts store for cheap as well.
 

TheRapture

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OP. how did you end up?

For test purposes, I ran my cpu at stock clocks (3400) @1.1v, I get max temps under Prime95 of 56c.
 

Araxie

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no turbo?. i can also test with my 3570K to make another comparison point but Ambient temps are important..
 

biggles

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OP. how did you end up?

For test purposes, I ran my cpu at stock clocks (3400) @1.1v, I get max temps under Prime95 of 56c.
I have not yet had time to do this project due to clients keeping me busy.

But I did learn a few important things from Corsair tech support. They said the load temps with prime95 or something similar should be in the 50-55c range and idle temps should be in the 27-30c with a Corsair H60 and the 4690k at stock speeds. So they agreed that my temps are way too high for the cooler to be working properly. Their opinion was that my H60 was likely not working right due to not having a tight enough seal (washer method ok'd by them), the coolant liquid being too low, or a blockage in the cooling someplace.

So if the washer method doesn't solve the problem, the plan is to RMA the H60.
 

Araxie

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so you have greenlight for RMA.. as you know first test with washer as mentioned above by TheRapture do not use metal washers and you will be perfect..
 

biggles

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Damn you guys are good!

I added 1/8" neoprene washers from Home Depot. Load temps with OCCT dropped to 55c max, averaging in the 50-55c range. And I didn't even change the thermal paste!

I could tell right away something was wrong after removing the H60 because only the top half of the cpu had thermal paste on it. Which means the bottom half was not even making contact with the H60. I would share the pictures but don't know to do that on this forum. Anyway, thank you very much. You made my day.
 

Araxie

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Damn you guys are good!

I added 1/8" neoprene washers from Home Depot. Load temps with OCCT dropped to 55c max, averaging in the 50-55c range. And I didn't even change the thermal paste!

I could tell right away something was wrong after removing the H60 because only the top half of the cpu had thermal paste on it. Which means the bottom half was not even making contact with the H60. I would share the pictures but don't know to do that on this forum. Anyway, thank you very much. You made my day.
man thats a hell of improvement in the temperature and its perfectly right where you should be... i've tested my chip without HT at stock settings and voltage and was in the exact same spot as you.. with 52C max in the hottest core but this was under P95.. anyway, im glad you solved your issue thats we always recommend to use the washers method..
 

TheRapture

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Damn you guys are good!

I added 1/8" neoprene washers from Home Depot. Load temps with OCCT dropped to 55c max, averaging in the 50-55c range. And I didn't even change the thermal paste!

I could tell right away something was wrong after removing the H60 because only the top half of the cpu had thermal paste on it. Which means the bottom half was not even making contact with the H60. I would share the pictures but don't know to do that on this forum. Anyway, thank you very much. You made my day.

Go to www.tinypic.com and upload the pictures there...totally free, then just paste the provided forum image link they give you into your post.

Nice results!
 

TheRapture

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For test purposes, I ran my cpu at stock clocks (3400) @1.1v, I get max temps under Prime95 of 56c.
At 1.0 vcore/3400mhz (stock) I get 52c max.

OP, man you did have a contact issue! LoL. Glad you are rocking it now.
 
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