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460SLI versus 5870?
- Thread starter Anti-Hero
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460 SLI is faster, but has no upgrade path. You say 2560x1600 and up, but that is going to yield two different answers to be honest. At 2560x1600, I say get a 5870 and you have the option of adding a second down the line. Triple monitor resolutions makes things trickier as CF+Eyefinity just doesn't scale.
Your sig lists a single U2410 - which is neither 2560x1600 or triple monitor, so what are you *actually* going to be running?
Your sig lists a single U2410 - which is neither 2560x1600 or triple monitor, so what are you *actually* going to be running?
I have a 3008wfp shipping to me right now. Unfortunately I don't have an upgrade path regarding adding a second 5870, my case will not fit a second GPU longer than about 11". So for now I'm either stuck with single cards or smaller SLI setups like the 460s. And for the price and those physical limitations the 460s seem pretty nice.
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Will a 5970 fit? If you can afford $680 that is.
nissanztt90
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Upgrade often: 460 SLI
Upgrade ever 2-3 years: Why are you considering two lower GPUs for such a high res?
We need some more answers on your intentions, especially assuming your sig is up to date since you dont exactly have the best SLI mobo.......
Sidenote...are you on tt.net under the same name?
Upgrade ever 2-3 years: Why are you considering two lower GPUs for such a high res?
We need some more answers on your intentions, especially assuming your sig is up to date since you dont exactly have the best SLI mobo.......
Sidenote...are you on tt.net under the same name?
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It would fit, but making up the difference between selling the 5870 and buying a 5970 would be bit much for my budget right now.
I upgrade about once a year, if that can be considered often. When I built this rig I didn't have Crossfire/SLI in mind, how exactly would my current motherboard limit myself with an SLI set up? I noticed a typo in my sig, it's actually a UD4P if that makes any difference.
Even if I upgraded every 2-3 years, it would seem like (according to the benchmarks that I've seen) that a 460 1GB SLI set up is faster than every other single GPU barring the 5970. It costs roughly the same as a 480GTX but is close to 20% faster in some applications. So even if I upgraded every 2-3 years it seems like it would hold up better than just buying a 480GTX or a 5870. Remember, I cannot CF 5870s in my case (Lian-Li PC-B10). I could barely squeeze in 480 SLIs but that's more money than I'm willing to spend, plus I would have to buy a new PSU, as well. This Lian-Li case wasn't cheap, either, so there is a significant sunk cost if I wanted to replace that as well for 5870CF.
I don't know what tt.net is so I'm sure that's not me.
DanishDevil
Limp Gawd
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Image courtesy of TechPowerUp! Click here to read the GTX 460 SLI review.
Note that these are not overclocked. Once you overclock dual GTX 460s, they will probably match or beat a 5970. All for $400.
blastingcap
Gawd
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If you want Surround, for now I think 460 SLI, but if you don't need Surround right now, I'd rather have the 5870 which is enough to drive a 30" and max out most games. Better yet, I'd wait. The 6870s are due to be out in a few months. It may be worth seeing what they have to offer before doing anything.
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Image courtesy of TechPowerUp! Click here to read the GTX 460 SLI review.
Note that these are not overclocked. Once you overclock dual GTX 460s, they will probably match or beat a 5970. All for $400.
Your going to spend more than $400
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...re=geforce_gtx_460_1gb-_-14-130-565-_-Product
Looks to me like $ 460 ish for the two.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...7500&cm_re=radeon_5850-_-14-127-500-_-Product
you can go $540 and get crossfire 5850s will be faster than that 5970 and you can over clock them for even better performance.
The 5850 seem to offer 20% performance increases over the gtx 460. The same is true when they are both overclocked.
Its up to him for which way he wants to go. However if he wants 3 monitors getting a single 5850 now will allow him to start playing 3 monitor gaming now. he can allways get the second card later on when he needs it.
I have to say if he can find the 5830 at $160ish it might be worth looking into. Crossfire 5830s are equal to the 768 meg gtx 460s.
Actually 3 5830s will be faster than two 5870s which at $160 would make them cost $480 . The trick is finding them at that price. But i know someone just had a sale that low on them.
DanishDevil
Limp Gawd
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This I disagree with. Both maxed out, you're still going to get more performance per dollar with a GTX 460 (comparing current new prices, since the 460s don't really have a used price yet).
The review was done with 1GB cards, but you can get higher performance from two overclocked 768MB cards.
I do agree, it's his decision, but this GTX 460 has impressed me quite a bit.
At the resolutions he wants 768MBs will start to limit performance.
The 5850 is about 20% faster when both are non over clocked. The 5850 is barely faster when the 460 is overclocked. But the 5850s over clock also. You will get 5870 performance or greater on a 5850 overlocked.
I like the gtx 460 its a good card. There are just other options.
Another option and perhaps the best bang for the buck would be the 5830 if you can find it at $150 again. Newegg just recently finished MIR's bringing it to this price. The 5830s in crossfire are as fast as the 460 768 verison cards at higher resolutions and at $300 for two its more compelling than $400 for two 460s.
There are really alot of options and some options that are very compelling open up when you least expect it like the 5830s at $150
I'm thinking of a 5870 and will probably get one but there is the 460 SLi nagging at me at the back of my mind since the [H] SLi review. The only problem i have is my case for SLi, otherwise i'd go for it because:
A: Price/Performance is good
B: Physx/Cuda (thinking of Just Cause 2 at the moment)
C: I prefer nVidia drivers.
A: Price/Performance is good
B: Physx/Cuda (thinking of Just Cause 2 at the moment)
C: I prefer nVidia drivers.
Just to clear things up, I currently have a 5870. It runs all my games just fine at my current resolution of 1920x1200. My 3008wfp comes in tomorrow, and from the looks of it my 5870 should be able to play most of my games just fine at 2560x1600 with all the eye candy turned on.
If I had the space in my case I would just add another 5870 for crossfire and call it good as I'm not doing any surround gaming at the moment (no desk space).
My main interest in essentially side-grading to a 460 SLI system is the better scalability of SLI for higher resolutions and I prefer nVidia drivers. But if my 5870 runs fine after some play testing I may just stick with that until the next refresh in the fall and reevaluate then.
If I had the space in my case I would just add another 5870 for crossfire and call it good as I'm not doing any surround gaming at the moment (no desk space).
My main interest in essentially side-grading to a 460 SLI system is the better scalability of SLI for higher resolutions and I prefer nVidia drivers. But if my 5870 runs fine after some play testing I may just stick with that until the next refresh in the fall and reevaluate then.
it wouldn't be much of a side grade. Remember two gtx 460s limit your upgrade path. What happens when you find a game that the gtx 460s don't run well ? With your current 5870 you can simply buy a second and get greater than 5970 performance. With the gtx 460 its not much of an option.
I say just start saving and enjoy your 5870. This time next year you'll be looking at the 6870 and the gtx 560s most likely.+
I say just start saving and enjoy your 5870. This time next year you'll be looking at the 6870 and the gtx 560s most likely.+
From my second post in the thread....
I can't crossfire 5870s, my case has a hard drive cage that would impede the second PCIe slot. So for all intents and purposes the GTX460 and the 5870 both dead-end along the upgrade path, I'm stuck with SLI/Crossfiring cards NO MORE than 11" in length. The 5870 is too bloody long, and from the looks of it the 480GTX would barely fit.
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I see a lot of these types of threads and I want to give some advice.
When I look for a SLI or CF setup, it must be faster than the highest card on the market i.e. 5970.
A 5970 can handle three monitors so I need that kind of power and more.
So like the others have said, 460SLI offers little upgrade path and is slower than a 5970.
OC either cards and the 5970 will get even faster. I would SLI 470s or CF 5850s instead for 2560x1600 gaming.
When I look for a SLI or CF setup, it must be faster than the highest card on the market i.e. 5970.
A 5970 can handle three monitors so I need that kind of power and more.
So like the others have said, 460SLI offers little upgrade path and is slower than a 5970.
OC either cards and the 5970 will get even faster. I would SLI 470s or CF 5850s instead for 2560x1600 gaming.
Wait and see how your 5870 performs on your new 30".
suiken_2mieu
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Well I'd have to say the GTX 460 in SLI would beat the pants off a single 5870.
xfire doesn't scale nowhere near as well as SLI. While the 5830 and GTX460 can trade blows in single cards, once you go dual, SLI wins every time.
Oh in that case you're in luck.
You already own a 5870.
All you have to do is buy a 5850 and Crossfire it with the 5870.
ATI allows for you to use slightly different video cards in the same series together.
For Nvidia 2 identical cards are required for SLI.
So just look for a bargain on a 5850, plug it in and crossfire with the 5870, and you're good to go. Typical 5850 is only 9.5" in length.
Only if you like miss information
http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforce-gtx-460-sli-review/5
At his target resolution the gtx 460 sli 768mb will be the same speed as ati. Remember I'm specificly talking about the 5830s at the $150 price newegg.com was offering them. At $300 vs $400 of the 768mb gtx 460s the 5830 at his resolution is a fine deal
As for crossfire vs sli
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/mainboards/display/ga-x58a-ud9_10.html
http://www.rage3d.com/board/showpost.php?p=1336322252&postcount=57
Ati has better scalling in around 60 of the 70 tested games.
Cases are cheap and you'll want good cooling running two cards in your system. two gtx 460s might cause heat problems in a case that poorly designed.
nissanztt90
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Alright your just getting a little way too pro-ATI now....nor are you one to talk about misinformation. The 768mb GTX 460 uses less power than the 5830...and the 1gb 460 uses a whopping 7 extra watts than the 5830. One isnt going to cause heat problems before the other
Alright your just getting a little way too pro-ATI now....nor are you one to talk about misinformation. The 768mb GTX 460 uses less power than the 5830...and the 1gb 460 uses a whopping 7 extra watts than the 5830. One isnt going to cause heat problems before the other
When did I ever compare the power usage of a 5830 to a gtx 460 ? Two video cards are going to produce alot more heat then 1 card unless its a 5970. Its very simple. The 5870 will create less heat than two gtx 460s.
Its also quite silly to trade 1 card in for two cards each of less value and performance just so you can double up. As another poster said a 5850 would allow him to crossfire the cards just fine and both fit and offer better performance than two gtx 460s. Or he can buy a new case and upgrade to crossfire 5870s.
I linkto the performance of two geforce gtx 460s with 768megs of ram , the performance at his resolution on newer games is extremely bad when you start to higher fsaa as your hitting framebuffer issues.
http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforce-gtx-460-sli-review/
He is going to have to sell his 5870 which will net him less than $400 and then by two $230 video cards for $460 bucks. So he is already going to be shelling out more money on this venture
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...0490&cm_re=radeon_5870-_-14-150-490-_-Product
The used 5870 market is currently sitting around $350 bucks . I know as I've been watching ebay for a good deal. That is what they have been peaking at recently.
If he had a gtx 470 would you be telling him to sell it to get two gtx 460s ? or would you tell him to save and get a second gtx 470 ? If he could use a gtx 460 in conjuction with the gtx 470 would you not recommend that instead of going with two gtx 460s
An older review but worth noting that 5870 + 5850 scales well and fits between 5850s crosfire and 5870s crossfire
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1107/3/
DanishDevil
Limp Gawd
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Wait and see how it is, and maybe throwing a 5850 into the mix.
Interesting...I had no idea that you could CF a 5870 and a 5850. Would I need to upgrade to a larger PSU for that?
Regarding my case, I wouldn't say it's poorly designed, it's a Lian-Li so replacing it isn't cheap. Also, I live in Alaska so there is a significant shipping cost component to factor in if I wanted to unload large used items on eBay or here and replace them with something else. The shipping alone on my 3008wfp was $150, you can't ship stuff by ground.
The new monitor gets here this afternoon so I'll try a smattering of games tonight and see how it goes!
Regarding my case, I wouldn't say it's poorly designed, it's a Lian-Li so replacing it isn't cheap. Also, I live in Alaska so there is a significant shipping cost component to factor in if I wanted to unload large used items on eBay or here and replace them with something else. The shipping alone on my 3008wfp was $150, you can't ship stuff by ground.
The new monitor gets here this afternoon so I'll try a smattering of games tonight and see how it goes!
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DanishDevil
Limp Gawd
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http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp
Configure for dual 5870s and see how far away you are. I've got the same PSU, but I haven't run more than one 5870 on it.
Configure for dual 5870s and see how far away you are. I've got the same PSU, but I haven't run more than one 5870 on it.
The reference 5870 is 10.6", it should fit (unless it's not 11" of space that you have). A single 5870 with a slight overclock (900-950MHz) will comfortably drive 2560x1600 with maxed out games. Probably the only game you'll struggle with is Metro 2033. Anyway, I'm curious to get an exact number for your space because it seems like second 5870 should be no problem. Of course you could always throw in a 5850, as mentioned, which is one of the great things about Crossfire.
Sometimes I hate being right all the time.
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/08/04/geforce_gtx_460_1gb_sli_vs_radeon_hd_5850_cfx
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FIXED: Yep, CF scaling isn't as good as SLI.
This HardOCP article shows GTX460 performed 7% better than HD5830 in BFBC2: ... 29.1 vs 27.3 FPS
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/08/04/geforce_gtx_460_1gb_sli_vs_radeon_hd_5850_cfx
Then GTX460 SLI performed 30% better than HD5850 CF in BFBC2: ... 51.8 vs 40.0 FPS
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/08/04/geforce_gtx_460_1gb_sli_vs_radeon_hd_5850_cfx
Numbers don't lie.
I fixed the post. Our viewpoints match but my statement was vague.
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If you read this thread and understood Stoly's position that SLI > CFX scaling ("xfire doesn't scale nowhere near as well as SLI"), you'd see my statement was a confirmation of his. I went ahead and fixed the post anyway.
Sorry to step on your toes. Just clarifying pasta4u's misinformation:
[H] only tested 3 games. pasta4u could still be exactly right.
Also, if you look at THIS [H] mini-review, you'll see GTX 460 SLI losing to 5970 - which is more or less the same as 5850 CF: http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/07/26/geforce_gtx_460_sli_performance_vs_amd_gpus/
So it isn't anywhere close to as cut and dry as you so desperately want.
DanishDevil
Limp Gawd
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Here's the bottom line:
You already have a 5870. See how it goes with your new monitor. If you are unsatisfied, move the 5870 to your second PCI-E slot to see if a second one will fit. If so, buy another. If not, measure for a 5970 in your primary slot. Report back to us with results.
You already have a 5870. See how it goes with your new monitor. If you are unsatisfied, move the 5870 to your second PCI-E slot to see if a second one will fit. If so, buy another. If not, measure for a 5970 in your primary slot. Report back to us with results.
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HardOCP played three games that we picked for specific reasons. Usually being the game had traits that push the video card in one way or another.
The site linked used canned benchmarks........do I need to say any more?
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You point out something here that I think is very important. And the numbers tend to back my thinking up. And this is coming from a guy that just moved from 5970 to 5870CFX.....
AMD does fine with CFX on a single card. When you move to an actual 2 card CFX configuration, you run into issues with scaling. My 5970 felt better in some games than 5870CFX. CFX in some of the games I have been playing requires a higher framerate to get a smooth non-jerky feeling. Just my 2 cents.
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I have not played enough games yet to really have an informed opinion, but with GTX 480 SLI, I am smooth as butter down into the upper-20s in FPS. With 5870CFX, I start feeling it stutter at 40. This is in Just Cause 2 only.
Once I've had a chance to play around with the monitor tonight (it's 4:40 PM my time and the UPS man still hasn't arrived!) I'll report back answering your questions.