343 Industries Explains 20GB Day One Patch

You can't really be mad at anyone about the bandwidth situation. Its a problem and its going to be common place more and more.

Bandwidth caps are insane. Especially on land line services. They are anti competitive and anti consumer. They are a "tax" on what should be standard usage.

No one should have to worry about this kind of shit. And frankly MS SHOULD provide an option to those who can't spare the bandwidth. I don't mind waiting an extra 2 weeks for MS to manufacture more disks if it means everyone gets a fair shot. Blu Ray disks at 50GB capacity are cheap.

For god sakes Lost Odyssey on the 360 was 5 discs? Its ok to have a few multi disk games.
 
VladDracule said:
Yeah lets ignore the cost of said discs. Ok lets not, a consumer 100+GB bluray disc is $40 a piece, as opposed to less than 5. Yup its not unreasonable at all to expect them to be manufactured on $40 discs when it retails for 59.99 :rolleyes:
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You assume the cost of a writable disc to a consumer is the same cost to companies that put in a manufacturing order for hundreds of thousands of pressed discs.

Hint. BluRays cost pennies to manufacture in volume typical of console releases.
 
techrat said:
You assume the cost of a writable disc to a consumer is the same cost to companies that put in a manufacturing order for hundreds of thousands of pressed discs.

Hint. BluRays cost pennies to manufacture in volume typical of console releases.
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Not for new formats like XL. Just ask Sony about the initial bluray launch. Also the fact that we don't even know that the consoles can even support bdxls and I would guess they probably cant
 
The real angst should be against usps
THE ISPs and their shitty rule over all we do versus a game dev giving us a nice way to not have to jumble disks. This is 2014, not 1998.
 
I agree with the people saying it should be 2 disks, a play and an install.
My internet flat out sucks here. No way I'd buy a game retail and wait for a 20 gig online install to play on a CONSOLE.
 
Consoles are no more... you are going to lose all those games with time.. is the PS4 the same way?
Years down the road there will no longer be hunting old games at flea markets like you can now with PS2.
 
Maybe it's just me, but I'm interpreting this as 343 screwing up somewhere and Microsoft going "Screw you, we're making that launch date." Printing that second disc (and thus modifying the cases for two discs, let's not forget that) was an expense MS didn't want to pony up for in the face of that...so, in a backhanded way, they passed the savings on to us.
 
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Just start releasing games on custom USB drives with drm built in. No need to install, because you get better performance off the stick drive than the installed hard drive. All the hard drive would be for is patches, dlc, digital downloads, and saves. They could even leave some room on the USB for the dlc saves and patches with all the drm protection the original game had.
 
Risant said:
Just start releasing games on custom USB drives with drm built in. No need to install, because you get better performance off the stick drive than the installed hard drive. All the hard drive would be for is patches, dlc, digital downloads, and saves. They could even leave some room on the USB for the dlc saves and patches with all the drm protection the original game had.
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I've always thought they should do this with movies, too.
 
Risant said:
Just start releasing games on custom USB drives with drm built in. No need to install, because you get better performance off the stick drive than the installed hard drive. All the hard drive would be for is patches, dlc, digital downloads, and saves. They could even leave some room on the USB for the dlc saves and patches with all the drm protection the original game had.
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If you haven't kept up in the security world recently a USB fault was found (the most epic of faults) that allows you to basically take over any USB item you wish as long as you are able to access it physically.

There is no fix for this fault and manufacturers have no idea when there will be. A USB drive for each game would result in instant piracy as it would bypass encryption through this exploit. Proposed fixes include epoxy (not joking..) and throwing them into a safe when not in use.

So for now while that seems like a good idea they will never go for it due to the nature of that issue.
 
Installing games/movies on USB sticks? Return of the cartridge based games?
 
schizrade said:
Jesus, 20GB day 1 download.

LMAO.

Imagine having to DL that over some shitty 5mb dsl or cable line.
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Try someone on a satellite internet connection. I think you get like 500mb a day.
 
Skillz said:
Installing games/movies on USB sticks? Return of the cartridge based games?
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Nothing wrong with that idea. The only reason we switched over to laser discs was cost and storage. Nowadays a USB memory stick can reach 64GB and cost $25. It's nowhere near as cheap as Blueray, but it'll be faster and more durable. But look at the Super Nintendo days, where flash storage was in its infancy and Nintendo was throwing extra CPUs on there like the SuperFX chip, and it was only $50 for the games.

There's no reason why the game didn't come with the needed 20GB when there were much better options. It's Microsoft likely trying to prevent piracy or even used game sales. Is it a wonder why PC gamers like having Microsoft as far away from PC gaming?
 
Ashbringer said:
Nothing wrong with that idea. The only reason we switched over to laser discs was cost and storage. Nowadays a USB memory stick can reach 64GB and cost $25. It's nowhere near as cheap as Blueray, but it'll be faster and more durable. But look at the Super Nintendo days, where flash storage was in its infancy and Nintendo was throwing extra CPUs on there like the SuperFX chip, and it was only $50 for the games.
/QUOTE]

The cost is the biggest factor. Otherwise Nintendo would still be using cartridges, but they learned their lesson with the Nintendo 64's cartridge based storage limitations and higher costs compared to Sony's Playstation.
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No it doesn't get more complicated, 4 games = 4 GB which EASILY fits on a Blu Ray. Oh well lets just say they need more, 4 games could handle 5GB each on a bluray. Point is this is just typical developer laziness and compromises they know push overs will bend over and take. Star craft can stream the data in as you are playing and you will probably have enough for the second mission by the time you get to it and so on until you are done. The only thing you miss is optimization. MS backed games should be showing the other devs how to do it right, not teaching them how to make lame excuses.
 
Ashbringer said:
A pack of 4 costs $30 off Ebay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/290912682700?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
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I always love it when Vlad's foot goes into his mouth.
Also, if these consoles can't even read dual layer Blu-Ray discs, then it's time for these companies to throw in the towel.

Come on, I get that when Blu-Ray was new about eight years ago, the last-gen could only do so much at those price points.
But now, there is absolutely no excuse to such cheapness and sloppy design.
 
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Red Falcon said:
I always love it when Vlad's foot goes into his mouth.
Also, if these consoles can't even read dual layer Blu-Ray discs, then it's time for these companies to throw in the towel.

Come on, I get that when Blu-Ray was new about eight years ago, the last-gen could only do so much at those price points.
But now, there is absolutely no excuse to such cheapness and sloppy design.
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And yet nobody actually knows the manufacturing cost of the discs. Single discs on amazon depending on brand are upwards of $40. If the cost of manufacturing an XL disc is even dollars more than dual layer discs that increases the cost exponentially when were talking millions of units being produced. Foot in mouth my ass nobody is retorting with anything other than "oh but the cost difference cant be that high" which is nothing but smoke and mirrors with no real data backing it up.

Not to mention not a single person has replied to the fact that we dont even know if the PS4 and Xbox 1 can read BDXL discs
 
VladDracule said:
Not for new formats like XL. Just ask Sony about the initial bluray launch. Also the fact that we don't even know that the consoles can even support bdxls and I would guess they probably cant
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So use two dual layer Blu-ray disks?
 
VladDracule said:
And yet nobody actually knows the manufacturing cost of the discs. Single discs on amazon depending on brand are upwards of $40. If the cost of manufacturing an XL disc is even dollars more than dual layer discs that increases the cost exponentially when were talking millions of units being produced. Foot in mouth my ass nobody is retorting with anything other than "oh but the cost difference cant be that high" which is nothing but smoke and mirrors with no real data backing it up.

Not to mention not a single person has replied to the fact that we dont even know if the PS4 and Xbox 1 can read BDXL discs
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I was talking about dual layer Blu-Ray discs, not BDXL (100-128GB) discs.
We don't need to replay about BDXL discs, because the storage capacity needed for the game/data in question will easily fit on a single dual layer disc.

Also, I (and nearly everyone else here) have no idea why it would cost as much for buying a single disc (Amazon, ebay, etc) vs Sony buying them in bulk.
Seriously, I highly doubt they would pay $40 per disc, more like $10 or less.

If they really were $40 or more, why on earth wouldn't Sony use some other type of media?
Even SD media would be more cost effective at this point, if that were the case.

This isn't about cost or capability (again, not talking about BDXL), it is about screwing the gamers and loyal customers over by bullshit tactics.
I'm not surprised, Sony did this to Nintendo 20 years ago, and I'm not shocked they are doing it to their customers now.
 
mesasone said:
So use two dual layer Blu-ray disks?
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The game in question would only need 40GB total, or one dual layer Blu-Ray disc.
This only amounts to dirty tactics to "deter piracy", like that's ever worked.

A similar thing went down with the new Wolfenstein game:

"Hey, we'll make everything uncompressed for [performance], even though the real reason is to make the game SOOO big, pirates won't want to download it!"

Smile-Meme.jpg
 
Red Falcon said:
I was talking about dual layer Blu-Ray discs, not BDXL (100-128GB) discs.
We don't need to replay about BDXL discs, because the storage capacity needed for the game/data in question will easily fit on a single dual layer disc.

Also, I (and nearly everyone else here) have no idea why it would cost as much for buying a single disc (Amazon, ebay, etc) vs Sony buying them in bulk.
Seriously, I highly doubt they would pay $40 per disc, more like $10 or less.

If they really were $40 or more, why on earth wouldn't Sony use some other type of media?
Even SD media would be more cost effective at this point, if that were the case.

This isn't about cost or capability (again, not talking about BDXL), it is about screwing the gamers and loyal customers over by bullshit tactics.
I'm not surprised, Sony did this to Nintendo 20 years ago, and I'm not shocked they are doing it to their customers now.
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Ummm it you look it up the game in question is over 60gbs. Dual layer bluray cap at 50gb so nope
 
All of this storage garbage is so artificial. Just add tons of uncompressed audio that adds absolutely nothing(aka just add a ton of languages uncompressed) to make it seem like your game is "next-gen" because wasting space is what "next-gen" is all about.
 
Skillz said:
Installing games/movies on USB sticks? Return of the cartridge based games?
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Can I get a "hell yeah!?" Cartridges were the only things that could survive my ignorant-assed childhood years of fucking everything up that I owned as a child. My PSX discs? Nope. Bring em back!
 
Red Falcon said:
Show me where it says 60GB in the article, or anywhere, about the game, please.
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He says you should look it up. No where did he say the article claimed the game was 60GB. In fact, the article only claims that the game was too big for a BD. Since a BD is 50GB one is to assume the game is > 50GB. Since 60GB > 50GB, the article does.
 
Skillz said:
He says you should look it up. No where did he say the article claimed the game was 60GB. In fact, the article only claims that the game was too big for a BD. Since a BD is 50GB one is to assume the game is > 50GB. Since 60GB > 50GB, the article does.
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A single Blu-Ray disc is 25GB, where as a dual-layer Blu-Ray disc is 50GB.
No where in the article does it say they are talking about a dual-layer Blu-Ray disc.

Care to try again? :rolleyes:
 
VladDracule said:
maybe read the thread? Multiple people already pointed it out
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I just re-read the entire thread, no one pointed it out.
But please, feel free to quote the person who did.

If you do, I will be glad to admit my mistake. ;)
 
Red Falcon said:
A single Blu-Ray disc is 25GB, where as a dual-layer Blu-Ray disc is 50GB.
No where in the article does it say they are talking about a dual-layer Blu-Ray disc.

Care to try again? :rolleyes:
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The PS4 can read dual-layer BD. So one should automatically assume when they're referring to a PS4 disc that it is a dual layer BD. Seriously dude?

Red Falcon said:
I just re-read the entire thread, no one pointed it out.
But please, feel free to quote the person who did.

If you do, I will be glad to admit my mistake. ;)
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Ragenrok said:
I'm pretty sure I read the disc has 40+ GB on it so the extra 20gb being a download make sense but I'd rather them make a 2 disc option for those that can't download 20gb. Not everyone is privy to high speed or decent bandwidth caps.
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Semantics said:
It's not
http://www.craveonline.com/gaming/a...wnload-halo-master-chief-collection-right-now
45GB on disc 20GB for download 65GB game size. Really wasn't that hard to look up. Plus the whole thing that the disc that support BDXL are insanely expensive.
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As if we needed more proof that you can't read.
 
Skillz said:
The PS4 can read dual-layer BD. So one should automatically assume when they're referring to a PS4 disc that it is a dual layer BD. Seriously dude?


As if we needed more proof that you can't read.
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I guess that's why you have the Skillz. :p
Seriously though, I just admitted I was wrong one post above yours.

I suppose that makes two us that can't read. ;)
 
Red Falcon said:
I guess that's why you have the Skillz. :p
Seriously though, I just admitted I was wrong one post above yours.

I suppose that makes two us that can't read. ;)
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You were replying to Vlad not me since you addressed him directly. Also, I didn't read that post nor xIronCrossx's post as I was gathering evidence.
 
Skillz said:
You were replying to Vlad not me since you addressed him directly. Also, I didn't read that post nor xIronCrossx's post as I was gathering evidence.
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How much proof do you want?!
I was wrong, here!

contra-5.gif
 
Redshirt #24 said:
Maybe it's just me, but I'm interpreting this as 343 screwing up somewhere and Microsoft going "Screw you, we're making that launch date." Printing that second disc (and thus modifying the cases for two discs, let's not forget that) was an expense MS didn't want to pony up for in the face of that...so, in a backhanded way, they passed the savings on to us.
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This sounds like the most plausible explanation of anything so far. Including one disc and needing to download a second is just pure dysfunction no matter how you look at it. It would be like launching an OS with a giant phone touch interface for a non-touchscreen desktop system.
 
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