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30" LCD for Color Work

J

JockItch43

n00b
Joined
Feb 9, 2008
Messages
18
Hello All,

I admit, I'm a newbie when it comes to color work. However, I'm very much into photography and I need a color accurate monitor for post processing RAW files in CS3. I realize that I have much to learn, but I want to make a good decision in regards to this purchase.

I know I'm getting a Mac Pro soon, but I'm seriously struggling with which 30" display to purchase. If I'm going to spend nearly $2000 on a display, I want to make sure I get my moneys worth. The three models I'm considering, in order of current preference, are as follows:

-30" NEC MultiSync LCD3090WQXi: Not yet released but is a new generation, high gamut S-IPS panel with the best specs, features for image quality, and brand name reputation for quality. 2 DVI inputs with one of them being HDCP. Rotates from landscape mode to portrait mode. However, this panel is atheistically the least pleasing of the group, but I'm most concerned about image quality.

-30" Dell 3008WFP-HC: Uses the same new LG S-IPS panel as the NEC. Has a ridiculous amount of inputs (including HDMI, displayport). Has a built in scaler for connecting other sources besides a computer. Has a CF card reader built in (subtle but important feature for me). Looks very nice aesthetically to me. However, knowing Dell, I wouldn't expect great color accuracy out of the box with this unit. But with proper color calibration, this panel should do well with color accuracy, correct? Also, many have reported significant back-light bleeding issues with the early shipments of this display (which are hopefully being worked on with the recent delay from Dell). Additionally, some complain that the back-light, even set to its lowest setting, is too bright.

-30" Apple Cinema Display: This model is a very distant third for me right now. It looks very nice aesthetically, but I feel like I'd be paying a premium for an older display with limited features nearing the end of its lifecycle. Only one input (not HDCP) and lower color gamut than the other two models. My worst fear is purchasing one of these and Apple finally releases an updated model a month or two later. I can't wait for Apple to release an update any longer.

So, basically in my mind right now, it's between the NEC and Dell. For features and looks, I like the Dell much better. However, for image quality, which is ultimately most important to me, I'm thinking the NEC will probably be the best choice (which is why it's my first choice right now). If a properly calibrated Dell is equal or very close to the image quality of the NEC, I'd probably prefer it. I'll likely pull the trigger at the end of the month. Any thoughts or suggestions?
 
I do not know how ergent your need is, but it might be worth it to wait a few weeks/months. The Samsung 305T plus will be out soon and they calibrate their monitors before they ship. Of course you will probubly need to get a good calibrator anyway. Ezio has a new 30 incher comming out very soon as well. It should be on par with the NEC. I have not heard anything about HP, but they must be working on something to compete with Dell. I think that the new Dell is a lost cause, because several users have reported that they are too bright, even if you get one without backlight bleed. The NEC is your best bet right now. I read that their unit has two power saving modes that reduce the backlight by 75% and 50%. That makes it the first 30 inch LCD with an adjustable backlight. I would love to have one except for the price. Their website has a link to get price quote. I am not sure if that means it is shipping or what.

Best of luck

Dave
 
daveswantek said:
I do not know how ergent your need is, but it might be worth it to wait a few weeks/months. The Samsung 305T plus will be out soon and they calibrate their monitors before they ship. Of course you will probubly need to get a good calibrator anyway. Ezio has a new 30 incher comming out very soon as well. It should be on par with the NEC. I have not heard anything about HP, but they must be working on something to compete with Dell. I think that the new Dell is a lost cause, because several users have reported that they are too bright, even if you get one without backlight bleed. The NEC is your best bet right now. I read that their unit has two power saving modes that reduce the backlight by 75% and 50%. That makes it the first 30 inch LCD with an adjustable backlight. I would love to have one except for the price. Their website has a link to get price quote. I am not sure if that means it is shipping or what.

Best of luck

Dave
Click to expand...

Thanks for the helpful reply. I know new products are on the horizon (they always are), but I can only wait for about another one to one and a half months at the most. I've literally waited for the past 4 months for an updated Apple Cinema display. I've got to pull the trigger soon or I'm going to start going crazy.

I do plan to buy the Datacolor Spyder 3 Elite calibrator, so I'm less concerned with out of the box accuracy, although that is a small plus. I'm most concerned with image quality after calibration without getting too crazy with price (Eizo, new Samsung LED, etc). So you believe that the Dell, even after calibration, wouldn't be a good choice? It's a shame because I really like the features and form factor of this unit the best.

And on the topic of price, surprisingly enough, the NEC looks like it might be the best bargain out of the three. Macmall has it listed for $1719.99 (with no sales tax and a mail in rebate to cover the costs of shipping). Both the Dell (even at the $1600 price point) and the Apple are more expensive options after taxes. I was expecting to have to drop at least $2000-2200 on the NEC, so that was a very pleasant surprise.
 
I have another thread:
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1269738
where I am asking about the Samsung 305T (not the anticipated Plus model) and overall, it seems to have gotten the best overall reviews.
Although I don't have the true need for color accuracy, I would appreciate it.

The new 305T will have more inputs, etc. but not sure that it will be a better panel.

However, if an IPS panel is required, then that leaves out any Samsung. I simply don't trust getting any first-rate product from Dell, and don't feel like sending huge monitors back to them for replacement or refund.

The HP has gotten good reviews, but not as good as the Samsung 305T has.

The Apple has been a fantastic display when used on a Mac, and supposedly works great on a PC as well. Everyone keeps saying that, because it is more than 3 years old it is long overdue for a refresh, but a new ACD might not be any better than the current one, could be worse, could be glossy, etc.

To me, it is between the ACD 30", the Samsung 305T or waiting to see the Samsung 305T Plus. The 305T right now is a bargain at just over $1200 shipped.

If the ACD is worth the extra money, I would like to know that.

Any thoughts more than welcome.

Andrew
 
daveswantek said:
The NEC is your best bet right now. I read that their unit has two power saving modes that reduce the backlight by 75% and 50%. That makes it the first 30 inch LCD with an adjustable backlight.
Dave
Click to expand...

FYI, the 3008WFP backlight is adjustable too. That's what the brightness control does. Verified in the Prad review - the power usage goes from something like 160 watts to 80 when you go from max->min brightness. Every other Dell LCD I've used did the same thing. Brightness == Backlight. I just wish they would allow brightness to go much lower.
 
Why not a Dell 3007WFP-HC? It has a larger gamut than most monitors, while not as high as the 3008. The Dells and Apples don't have a 12 bit LUT, so a lower gamut should calibrate better.

Dell has a good warranty for their monitors, but it seems that some people don't like taking advantage of it. I had the same 2405FPW monitor as aamsel, and I didn't like it either, but my 2005WFP and 2007WFP are both great monitors.

The NEC is probably the best 30", but I'd put the 3007WFP-HC second.
 
daveswantek said:
I do not know how ergent your need is, but it might be worth it to wait a few weeks/months. The Samsung 305T plus will be out soon and they calibrate their monitors before they ship. Of course you will probubly need to get a good calibrator anyway. Ezio has a new 30 incher comming out very soon as well. It should be on par with the NEC.
Click to expand...
S-PVA panels are no good for color work, especially on a screen that large. What good is calibration if the viewing angles distort the gamma curve even when you're sitting in front of the monitor? There's no way those monitors would be on par with the NEC for that reason alone.
 
Yelnats said:
Why not a Dell 3007WFP-HC? It has a larger gamut than most monitors, while not as high as the 3008. The Dells and Apples don't have a 12 bit LUT, so a lower gamut should calibrate better.

Dell has a good warranty for their monitors, but it seems that some people don't like taking advantage of it. I had the same 2405FPW monitor as aamsel, and I didn't like it either, but my 2005WFP and 2007WFP are both great monitors.

The NEC is probably the best 30", but I'd put the 3007WFP-HC second.
Click to expand...

My problem with ANY monitor warranty (or hard drive or other component) is that you never get another new product, always a refurbished one. I have had an issue even with Samsung service, since the refurbs they sent me were all bad. Not until I got 3 bad replacements did they agree to send me a new monitor, and it was very tiring along the way.

The best way to get 3+ years out of a monitor is to get a product that comes out of the box as perfect. I don't think that any Dell product gives you the best odds of that happening.

Andrew
 
ToastyX said:
S-PVA panels are no good for color work, especially on a screen that large. What good is calibration if the viewing angles distort the gamma curve even when you're sitting in front of the monitor? There's no way those monitors would be on par with the NEC for that reason alone.
Click to expand...

True, but what good is an IPS panel if black looks like purple from the side?
Maybe the NEC doesn't do that?

Andrew
 
wizziwig said:
FYI, the 3008WFP backlight is adjustable too. That's what the brightness control does. Verified in the Prad review - the power usage goes from something like 160 watts to 80 when you go from max->min brightness. Every other Dell LCD I've used did the same thing. Brightness == Backlight. I just wish they would allow brightness to go much lower.
Click to expand...

That is news to me, but at least 3 people on this sight have said that they set the brightness to 0 and still had to lower the contrast to make the display usable.

I will have to check out the Mac Mall price on the NEC. I think it is the best choice especially at 1700 and some change.

I have been waiting for a 30 in display for over 2 years, and yes waiting does suck.

Thanks for the info.

Dave

<Edit>

Wow; I just checked out the MacMall price and sure enough the NEC LCD3090WQXi at $1720.00 now that is more like it. The NEC must have a scaler chip in it because they list a full range of resolutions and full support for 1080p with HDCP. The only down side is that it has one DVI-I and one DVI-D. No displayport or HDMI, which I could live without.

Here is the full specs in the product PDF: http://www.necdisplay.com/cms/documents/ColorBrochures/LCD3090WQXi Brochure_0108.pdf

Not Bad

</EDIT>
 
aamsel said:
True, but what good is an IPS panel if black looks like purple from the side?
Maybe the NEC doesn't do that?
Click to expand...
The purple only shows up at extreme angles. Newer IPS panels glow white instead, so the glow really only affects contrast. The NEC 2490 and 2690 have a special polarizer which prevents this from happening, so maybe the 3090 does also.
 
ToastyX said:
The purple only shows up at extreme angles. Newer IPS panels glow white instead, so the glow really only affects contrast. The NEC 2490 and 2690 have a special polarizer which prevents this from happening, so maybe the 3090 does also.
Click to expand...

I'm glad you brought up the NEC coating. So far, the only 30" panel that I've been able to see has been the Apple at the Apple store. I noticed a pretty pronounced "sparkly effect", especially on white backgrounds. I've read that this effect is enharent of S-IPS panels (I guess this stems from the coating). Is this correct? I found it kind of annoying and distracting.

Do the current S-IPS panels exhibit this characteristic? I've also heard that the NEC S-IPS panels with their coating help reduce the sparkly effect, is there any truth to this? If the NEC reduces this effect, that would be a major plus. How does the Dell perform in this regard? As color accuracy is my main concern, I could force myself to get used to it, but I prefer not to if possible.
 
JockItch43 said:
I'm glad you brought up the NEC coating. So far, the only 30" panel that I've been able to see has been the Apple at the Apple store. I noticed a pretty pronounced "sparkly effect", especially on white backgrounds. I've read that this effect is enharent of S-IPS panels (I guess this stems from the coating). Is this correct? I found it kind of annoying and distracting.

Do the current S-IPS panels exhibit this characteristic? I've also heard that the NEC S-IPS panels with their coating help reduce the sparkly effect, is there any truth to this? If the NEC reduces this effect, that would be a major plus. How does the Dell perform in this regard? As color accuracy is my main concern, I could force myself to get used to it, but I prefer not to if possible.
Click to expand...

I have seen the sparkle on the ACD's and the HP 2335 that I have. I think it is a function or side-effect of the anti-glare coating.

I am assuming that this high-dollar NEC would not have any type of glossy coating like other NEC's have had in the past?

Andrew
 
JockItch43 said:
You have to "click here" for their sale price. Onsale.com has the same setup (I'm assuming they're owned by the same company) with a sale price of $1660.
Click to expand...

Yes, thanks I noticed that 10 seconds after I posted my reply.
Have you ever ordered from onsale.com?
Just wondering since they have a fairly bad rating at resellerratings.com

Andrew
 
aamsel said:
Yes, thanks I noticed that 10 seconds after I posted my reply.
Have you ever ordered from onsale.com?
Just wondering since they have a fairly bad rating at resellerratings.com

Andrew
Click to expand...

Nope, no experience with them unfortunately. If these are the ballpark street prices, I just might wait for a familiar and reputable online reseller (and one in which I don't have to pay sales tax)
 
JockItch43 said:
I'm glad you brought up the NEC coating. So far, the only 30" panel that I've been able to see has been the Apple at the Apple store. I noticed a pretty pronounced "sparkly effect", especially on white backgrounds. I've read that this effect is enharent of S-IPS panels (I guess this stems from the coating). Is this correct? I found it kind of annoying and distracting.

Do the current S-IPS panels exhibit this characteristic? I've also heard that the NEC S-IPS panels with their coating help reduce the sparkly effect, is there any truth to this? If the NEC reduces this effect, that would be a major plus. How does the Dell perform in this regard? As color accuracy is my main concern, I could force myself to get used to it, but I prefer not to if possible.
Click to expand...
The polarizer is separate from the anti-glare coating. From what I've seen, S-IPS panels have the sparkly coating, but H-IPS panels do not. The NEC 2490 and 2690 have H-IPS panels, but I'm not sure about the 3090. I've read complaints about the sparkly coating on the Dell 3008WFP, but I'm not sure how the coating would be like on the NEC.
 
ToastyX said:
The polarizer is separate from the anti-glare coating. From what I've seen, S-IPS panels have the sparkly coating, but H-IPS panels do not. The NEC 2490 and 2690 have H-IPS panels, but I'm not sure about the 3090. I've read complaints about the sparkly coating on the Dell 3008WFP, but I'm not sure how the coating would be like on the NEC.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the input. I suspect that the sparkle effect for the NEC will be the same as the Dell 3008, as I've read that they share the same LG panel. Oh well.
 
aamsel said:
True, but what good is an IPS panel if black looks like purple from the side?
Maybe the NEC doesn't do that?

Andrew
Click to expand...

no, the NEC doesnt do that.

NEC's are in a class of their own, you simply cant compare dell panels to NEC panels.
dell markets their panels to the mainstream consumer and doesnt have any pro level monitors, NEC has many pro monitors and markets them as such

like toastyX says, NEC panels suck, they make you realise how inferior other panels are:D
 
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