256-bit worth it?

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CHAoS_NiNJA

[H]ard|Gawd
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May 26, 2005
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Well, I'm looking to buy a new GFX card some time in the near future to replace my aging 9800 vanilla. I was looking at this MSI 6600GT, but it seems all the AGP 6600 vanilla and GTs all only have a 128-bit memory bus, which got me wondering...what exactly are the advantages of having a 256-bit memory bus? Should I go for another 9800 (Pro this time) just for the 256-bit bus? I hear the 6600GT destroys the 9800, so...

(No f4nb0y stuff please. I use ATi and I'm open to nVidia and am possibly going that way.)
 
256 bit memory bus equals more memory bandwidth. However, due to the arcitecture of the core and speed of the memory, the 6600 gt will beat a 9800 pro every time. However, a 6800 nu is 256 bit and arguably faster than a 6600 gt stock vs. stock. Especially at high resolution when you start to stress the memory bus.

Really, who still plays at 1024x768? Of course, the 6800nu is a bit more expensive than the 6600gt. I think they can be had for ~220 new. Don't quote me on that. Check you some newegg.
 
-=MrStalinsOpus=- said:
256 bit memory bus equals more memory bandwidth. However, due to the arcitecture of the core and speed of the memory, the 6600 gt will beat a 9800 pro every time. However, a 6800 nu is 256 bit and arguably faster than a 6600 gt stock vs. stock. Especially at high resolution when you start to stress the memory bus.

Really, who still plays at 1024x768? Of course, the 6800nu is a bit more expensive than the 6600gt. I think they can be had for ~220 new. Don't quote me on that. Check you some newegg.
Click to expand...

$180
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814150068

Plus a rebate to make it $150.
 
Well, I know its vain, but I kinda of need the PCB to be red, which is why I was looking at that card. You see, everything inside my PC is red, mobo, RAM, GFX card, inside paint job, CCFL, fans...so I need it to match.

I'd really like to go nVidia. I hear alot of good things about them and they seem to have the best bang for your buck. Also, I may be doing a Linux dual-boot at some point and nVidia support for Linux so far better.

Anyway, back on subject. Is a higher res all the bus helps with? I'm sure theres got to be more then that...

Also, don't count rebates. I never go through with them.
 
CHAoS_NiNJA said:
Well, I know its vain, but I kinda of need the PCB to be red, which is why I was looking at that card. You see, everything inside my PC is red, mobo, RAM, GFX card, inside paint job, CCFL, fans...so I need it to match.

I'd really like to go nVidia. I hear alot of good things about them and they seem to have the best bang for your buck. Also, I may be doing a Linux dual-boot at some point and nVidia support for Linux so far better.

Anyway, back on subject. Is a higher res all the bus helps with? I'm sure theres got to be more then that...

Also, don't count rebates. I never go through with them.
Click to expand...

If you are buying AGP, I'd get the 6600GT. In fact, that MSI card is a nice choice - even comes with VIVO (so you can pipe a VCR or cable box to your PC and watch TV on it!) MSI also makes one without VIVO that has 1000mhz memory - and as, it IS 128-bit, the faster the better.

Thing about AGP is that ALL the 6800 AGP variants have partially broken Purevideo functionality. And that's important to me, as I spend at least as much time watching movies of various file formats on my PC as playing games.

Only downside to the 6600GTs is that the heatsink on them is fairly poorly mounted - only 1 pin on each side. Can make them kinda wobbly.

As to the 128-bit vs 256-bit difference....DO keep in mind that clock speeds matter.

IE., 1000mhz ram with only a 128-bit bus width transmits EXACTLY as much data per increment of time as 500mhz ram with a 256-bit bus.

Ditto the core. Sure, it's only 8 pipes and the 6800nu is 12 pipes...BUT, 8 pipes at 500mhz has a 4.0 gpixel/sec fillrate, whereas a 12 pipe core at 325mhz (like the 6800nu) only has a 3.9 gpixel/sec fillrate.

So, the 6600GT actually has HIGHER fillrate than the 6800nu, even if it has less memory bandwidth (1000mhz * 128bit = 16GB/s bandwidth on the 6600GT while the 6800nu has 700mhz * 256bit = 22.4GB/s bandwidth....not a huge difference by any account, especially now that games are becoming more and more reliant on core fillrate than bandwidth. About the only time memory bandwidth is still king is high resolution stuff.)
 
-=MrStalinsOpus=- said:
Really, who still plays at 1024x768?
Click to expand...

I still play at 1024x768. Sometimes I play at 1280x1024 or 1280x960 too...

am I not one of the cool kids? :p
 
First of all to upgrade your 9800 to a 6600 isnt a upgrade. At lower rez the 6600 is slightly faster but once you crank the rez to say 1280x960 with aa/af the 9800 is faster simple as that. Why ne1 would even purchase a 6600gt over a 6800 is beyond me becuase the 6800 is a far superior card and the 6800 should be the minimum of your upgrade fantasy.
 
Here are the benches:

http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20050705/vga-charts-pcie-02.html#3d_mark_2005

This xfx card for $150 looks pretty nice. According to the xfx website it has 16 pipes. So what we have is 6600GT with 900mhz memory @ 128bit and 8 pipes and the 6800 with 700mhz memory @ 256 bit and 16 pipes???? I think the xfx wins without a doubt.

Also take in to account the benches at the link above are for a 6800 with 12 pipes. This one will run a little faster.

 
I play at nothing but 1024 X 7. Unless you have a LCD that you want to keep on native resolution, theres nothing to be gained from anything higher. The names are too small, targets get smaller, etc.

I think it's just another "lookit me, I gotta big e-dongle" type of thing. I ve never seen a 3d shooter yet that really needed a higher res than 1204 X 7.
 
Selecter said:
I play at nothing but 1024 X 7. Unless you have a LCD that you want to keep on native resolution, theres nothing to be gained from anything higher. The names are too small, targets get smaller, etc.

I think it's just another "lookit me, I gotta big e-dongle" type of thing. I ve never seen a 3d shooter yet that really needed a higher res than 1204 X 7.
Click to expand...

I just plain like the way my games look at 1680x1050 with the AA cranked. I have no trouble hitting targets or reading the text.
 
the 6800 gets more out of an overclock then the 6600GT because it has more pixel pipes and a slower core. at stock their fill rate is about the same, but the 6800 has twice the memory bandwith then the 6600GT because of its 256bit memory interface.

XFX 6800
12 pixel pipes
325/700 clock

6600 GT
8 pixel pipes
500/900 Clock

pixel pipes * core clock = Fill Rate
6800 12*325 = 3.9
6600 GT 8*500 = 4.0

pixel pipes * memory clockx2 if 128bit, 4 if 256bit = Memory Bandwith
6800 12*700 = 8440*4 = 33.6 (256bit)
6600 GT 8*900 = 7200*2 = 14.4 (128bit)
 
also from what i can tell the XFX seems to be easily unlockable. its the card i have and runs smooth as silk. i run my games at 1280x1024(except BF2, have to run that at 1280x968, silly EA) and i have no slowdowns at max quality. things like NFSU look great, i would definatly say go with a 6800. as for being all red inside your case, your going to have to sacrifice either performance or the look of your rig. whats more important to you?
 
The awesome thing about AGP 6800NUs is they can unlock 4 more pipelines and 1 more shader sometimes. (If you get one that doesn't, you can always return it until you get one that does). Read about it in the sticky in these forums.

I'd get the 6800 b/c of that. After it's overclocked it could reach near 6800GT specs. How's that for $150-190!
 
i still play at 1024x768
dont make assumptions for everyone, cuz you look like an ass.
i would get the 6800 le at zipzoomfly.
its only 140 dolalrs with 2nd day shipping.
 
I have a 19" monitor and a 6800GT, but I still play at either 800x600 or 1024x768. :D

I just do!!!!!!!!!!11111111111

 
dderidex said:
If you are buying AGP, I'd get the 6600GT. In fact, that MSI card is a nice choice - even comes with VIVO (so you can pipe a VCR or cable box to your PC and watch TV on it!) MSI also makes one without VIVO that has 1000mhz memory - and as, it IS 128-bit, the faster the better.

Thing about AGP is that ALL the 6800 AGP variants have partially broken Purevideo functionality. And that's important to me, as I spend at least as much time watching movies of various file formats on my PC as playing games.

Only downside to the 6600GTs is that the heatsink on them is fairly poorly mounted - only 1 pin on each side. Can make them kinda wobbly.

As to the 128-bit vs 256-bit difference....DO keep in mind that clock speeds matter.

IE., 1000mhz ram with only a 128-bit bus width transmits EXACTLY as much data per increment of time as 500mhz ram with a 256-bit bus.

Ditto the core. Sure, it's only 8 pipes and the 6800nu is 12 pipes...BUT, 8 pipes at 500mhz has a 4.0 gpixel/sec fillrate, whereas a 12 pipe core at 325mhz (like the 6800nu) only has a 3.9 gpixel/sec fillrate.

So, the 6600GT actually has HIGHER fillrate than the 6800nu, even if it has less memory bandwidth (1000mhz * 128bit = 16GB/s bandwidth on the 6600GT while the 6800nu has 700mhz * 256bit = 22.4GB/s bandwidth....not a huge difference by any account, especially now that games are becoming more and more reliant on core fillrate than bandwidth. About the only time memory bandwidth is still king is high resolution stuff.)
Click to expand...

ROFL, u must be smokin some good shxt..
FX5200NU > GF3 http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=812529&highlight=fx5200 and now 6600GT > 6800NU??? :confused:


Get da (256bit) 6800NU, they usually o/c well, Rivatuner poll at Guru3D shows over 53% chance (234/441) of successfully unlocking all the pipelines.
http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?threadid=108905
I've had 4 and unlocked 16,6 on all 4. :) I can get easily get over 70k on aquamark3 and 5k on 3dmark05 and with 6800LE (6800ulta bios, vf700cu).

256bit video cards are way to go, my 9500np(256bit, hardmod, zalman h80c, 9800 bios) can take on any 9800np(128bit).
 
CHAoS_NiNJA said:
Well, I know its vain, but I kinda of need the PCB to be red, which is why I was looking at that card. You see, everything inside my PC is red, mobo, RAM, GFX card, inside paint job, CCFL, fans...so I need it to match.
Click to expand...

Well, looks like you're going to have to go ATI :D
 
"Well, I know its vain, but I kinda of need the PCB to be red, which is why I was looking at that card. You see, everything inside my PC is red, mobo, RAM, GFX card, inside paint job, CCFL, fans...so I need it to match."

Then paint it. Who looks inside thier computers that much that it's more important than performance?
 
honkee said:
i still play at 1024x768
dont make assumptions for everyone, cuz you look like an ass.
i would get the 6800 le at zipzoomfly.
its only 140 dolalrs with 2nd day shipping.
Click to expand...
6800LE isn't worth the money unless you can get it to unlock, which is a risky bet.
 
Nidhogg said:
pixel pipes * memory clockx2 if 128bit, 4 if 256bit = Memory Bandwith
6800 12*700 = 8440*4 = 33.6 (256bit)
6600 GT 8*900 = 7200*2 = 14.4 (128bit)
Click to expand...

Thats not how you work out memory bandwidth. Pixel pipelines dont effect memory bandwidth at all. The proper way to work out memory bandwidth is

(bit bus) / 8 * (effective clock speed in MHz) /1024 = memory bandwidth in GB

The two cards sum up like this.

6800NU = 256/8*700/1024 = 21.88GB (rounded)

6600GT = 128/8*900/1024 = 14.06GB (rounded)

Also note that most 'specs' of video cards list GB's using the above, but /1000 instead of /1024. This leads to 'inflated' numbers. /1024 is the gives you the real bandwidth of the card.
 
Chaballaman said:
and now 6600GT > 6800NU??? :confused:
Click to expand...
Maybe you need to work on your reading comprehension. When did I say anything like that?

I pointed out that the Purevideo functionality is partially broken on the AGP 6800nu and not on the AGP 6600GT - you got a problem with that?

If that's important to him (and since COLOR is important to him, that may well be), it's a factor. It was important to me, and played a part in my decision.

You've got a real problem with personal attacks, man - sounds like you are on the way to ban-ville again....
 
DarkBahamut said:
Thats not how you work out memory bandwidth.
Click to expand...

Understatement of the year :)

There's also the X800GT that ATi will soon be dumping on the market (failed X800XT cores) for dirt cheap with 256MB ram on a 256-bit bus - should easily beat the 6600GT if you can wait for it. No idea if/when it will be available though given ATi's recent track record.
 
Don't get the 6800 LE, you will regret it. If you have to have a red PCB you'll have to get the MSI 6600GT, though I don't think matching the vid card to the mobo should be of as much importance as performance. In all honesty once you get to the $180 regardless of the rebate which you'll have to wait 2 1/2 months to get, you might as well bump up to the 6800GT. You can find good deals on used and sometimes the e-tailers run really good specials on them.
 
For crying our loud wrap it in red cellophane :p. Honestly, the 6800 is so much more of a deal than the 6600GT its not even a comparison. It performs better at higher settings and once unlocked and overclocked it slaughters it, do yourself a favor and get one; you'll keep your eyes on the screen and won't look at the case :D
 
People in the thread said:
Whats more important, looks or performance?
Click to expand...

Well, to a point...looks. Kind of. I'm a case modder first-and-foremost. Its not that looks are "more important" then performance, its just I need to find a good middle ground for both. I thought about just getting another ATi card for the PCB, but I really wanna try out nVidia. I'm not even exactly sure why.

Anyway, keep going, I like where this thread is heading...
 
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