2405FPW lag shots

DusanV

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Apr 23, 2006
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I know I'm beating a dead horse here but I had to take some shots before I return the monitor tomorrow. Here they are:



I took about a hundred shots. The lag is around 35 ms mostly but it goes up to 51 ms as shown and as low as 25 ms.

So 2007WFP is banding badly but the 3007WFP is OK?
 

bennetvu

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Jan 20, 2006
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Do you notice any lags when you use the monitor? If you don't, I think it's ridiculous if you just take the test and it shows that it's laggin. Why does it matter if you can't tell?

I had the monitor and I think it's fine for mostly everything...
 

DusanV

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The lag didn't bother me in Windows but it does bother me a lot when playing games. The monitor is perfect otherwise and was very reasonably priced so I didn't come to the decision to return it lightly at all (I thought to keep the CRT for the games at first).

Did anyone do these kind of tests with any SIPS monitors, preferably the Dell 3007 WFP or the 23'' HP??

Cheers.
 

Ocean

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wow, i want to see my monitors response time, explain wtf you are doing please.
 

Rishy

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i dont think ill ever be good enough at games for a 57ms delay to hurt me.......
 

Roceh

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This is pure speculation but i bet this is due overdrive trying to reduce the video noise you normally get with using overdrive.

Think of the situation where pixels are changing over three frames

Situation 1

Grey 32 -> Grey 160 -> Grey 32

Situation 2

Grey 32 -> Grey 160 -> Grey 160

If you buffer the first two frames (32, 160) you can work out that you need to do the overdrive on the first situation and not on the second. Hence you wont get noise on the pixel that stays at 160.

So directly after the 2nd frame has come in, you show the 1st frame and wait till the 3rd frame has been received to determine how much overdrive you do to switch to the 2nd frame.

Obviously with this technique you are lagged by 1 frame, you could buffer more frames to reduce the video noise even more, but i suspect you'd start to notice the lag even on video.

I wish a hardware site would take a closer look at this, because it makes a mockery of the quoted pixel response times.
 

bexamous

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Yea 2405 is very lagged, 50ms is alot in FPS games. I love my 2405 for desktop use but its worthless trying to aim in a fps with it. I've been playing ut2k4 on a 14" crt (13" viewable) because its at least usable. Considering how simple this test is I wish reviews did it more.
 

ToastyX

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bennetvu said:
Do you notice any lags when you use the monitor? If you don't, I think it's ridiculous if you just take the test and it shows that it's laggin. Why does it matter if you can't tell?
I think it's ridiculous that so many people think a lag of 2-3 frames is not a problem, especially when considering there are monitors that don't have this problem. 2-3 frames is 33-50 ms. The Samsung 244T is even worse, with a lag of 3-4 frames. That's 50-67 ms. How much lag must there be before you consider it a problem? Not only does the lag affect gaming, it also affects audio/video synchronization, and it makes typing over SSH feel more laggy than it actually is. Just because the lag doesn't bother you doesn't mean it's not a problem.

I haven't done the timer test because I don't have a decent camera, but I've done the "drag a window up and down between two monitors" test with several monitors, and I've found that the Dell 2405FPW and the Samsung 244T lag noticeably behind the 23" Apple Cinema Display and the HP L2335. The Apple side by side with a CRT running at 60 Hz shows almost no difference, and what little difference there is can be attributed to the response time.
 
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DusanV said:
The lag didn't bother me in Windows but it does bother me a lot when playing games. The monitor is perfect otherwise and was very reasonably priced so I didn't come to the decision to return it lightly at all (I thought to keep the CRT for the games at first).

Did anyone do these kind of tests with any SIPS monitors, preferably the Dell 3007 WFP or the 23'' HP??

Cheers.

YEs, I compared the 3007 to the sammy 244T and the 3007 does not suffer from lag.
 

DusanV

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Ocean said:
wow, i want to see my monitors response time, explain wtf you are doing please.
The idea isn't mine. You hook up the LCD and a CRT to the same video card and clone the output (or mirror, whatever you want to call it). Then you start a timer and take shots at 1/1000 sec or 1/500 sec and voila. Of course, once you're done, post the shots here!
 

Eva_Unit_0

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yeah I definitely agree that 30-50ms is far too much lag for just a simple monitor. When I play CS:S I typically have pings that are less than that :rolleyes: It's ridiculous if a monitor has a longer lag than my ping to a game server. I wouldn't put up with that.
 

ZeroH

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i really don't understand how this test was valid.. anyone want to clear it up for me?

nevertheless, for those who don't know... 16ms on LCD roughly equates to 60Hz refresh rate on CRT.
 

Eva_Unit_0

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ZeroH said:
i really don't understand how this test was valid.. anyone want to clear it up for me?

nevertheless, for those who don't know... 16ms on LCD roughly equates to 60Hz refresh rate on CRT.
all he did was hook up the 2405 and a CRT (which have practically zero response time so it's considered the zero) to the same computer and clone the desktop. He then ran a stopwatch program and took a picture of the screen...if the two screens both have the same lag then they would show the same time in the picture. But because the 2405 has lag issues the display is always a bit behind (by about 30-50ms).
 

DusanV

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caboosemoose said:
YEs, I compared the 3007 to the sammy 244T and the 3007 does not suffer from lag.
It would be nice to see some shots of the 3007 vs a CRT before pulling the trigger on something that expensive. Has anybody done any shots?
 

Javi

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I am going to assume that the 2405FPW is not running at native resolution. Doesn't the monitor resample (maybe more like reconvert) the image displayed?
 
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I can assure you that the 3007 does not have the lag problem. It's not really practical for me to take any pictures right now, but I carefully compared the 3007 to a 244T and the difference was very, very clear.
 

DusanV

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Javi said:
I am going to assume that the 2405FPW is not running at native resolution. Doesn't the monitor resample (maybe more like reconvert) the image displayed?
2405 FPW is running at 1900x1200 (native) throught DVI. The CRT is panning since it can only do 1600x1200.
 

fishy1234

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Are you saying, that the Apple LCD does not have any lag?

Is this a better monitor for games than the 2405, or 2407? I was waiting for 2407 but if it lags and the Apple is better monitor, than I buy Apple. Money is not an issue for me.
 

Neutrino

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Can anyone else chime in about the 2405FPW. I am considering switching to one due to that nasty banding issue we are having with the 2007 series.



So is the 2405 that bad, is it really unusable un fast games? i'm not really a big gamer, but i still do ocasionally go to lans and i would like to know if the monitor is at least adequate to play some UT2004.

Are there also any other serious issues i should know about? The monitor will be mainly used for general productivity stuff, movie watching and some photoshop work.
 

kleox64

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People the lag is due to the overdrive used in VA based LCD's, the 244T uses a ton of overdrive to achieve that 6ms g2g response time from an LCD module originaly designed for 12/16ms operation. The response time improvement does not come for free, putting this together with the viewing angle issues VA based monitors are not suitable for FPS based games. Anyone who thinks 40-50ms lag is acceptable has no idea what there talking about. Its bad now, wait until later when VA panels reach 2ms.
 

DusanV

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Neutrino said:
Can anyone else chime in about the 2405FPW. I am considering switching to one due to that nasty banding issue we are having with the 2007 series.
Google
is
your
friend

Some people notice it and aren't bothered, others like myself are. Some insist despite solid evidence that there is no lag...
 

michealo

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i only see a bit of lag if i start playing a game right after the my 2405 is powered on or comes out of sleep mode, then it goes away after it warms up.

other than that, i see no lag/ghosting

/shrug

"solid evidence" is a relative term too
:p
 

pakotlar

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michealo said:
i only see a bit of lag if i start playing a game right after the my 2405 is powered on or comes out of sleep mode, then it goes away after it warms up.

other than that, i see no lag/ghosting

/shrug

"solid evidence" is a relative term too
:p
This evidence is based on empirical, reproducible test results. :p does not change that. That being said, if you don't care you don't care.
 

DusanV

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fishy1234 said:
Are you saying, that the Apple LCD does not have any lag?

Is this a better monitor for games than the 2405, or 2407? I was waiting for 2407 but if it lags and the Apple is better monitor, than I buy Apple. Money is not an issue for me.
I am considering that one as well as the 23'' HP and the 3007 Dell. All are SIPS (and not PVA like the 2405) and aren't supposed to lag.
 

Kevlarman

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All I know is that I can fly planes and helicopters in BF2 with no problem whatsoever, so apparently the 30-50ms of lag does not affect me.

Either I'm so used to the lag that I compensate, or I just don't notice. I don't play very many games that require me to have 1/20 of a second reaction time.
 

ToastyX

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This is an old thread! More people are aware of lag now, but it's still a problem.
 
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