mike_j_johnson
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Any recommendations?
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24" S-IPS LCDs?
- Thread starter mike_j_johnson
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mike_j_johnson
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I have the LG L246WP and it looks like absolute crap compared to the Samsung 244T that I used to have (long story). Hard to believe the LG is supposedly one step down from S-IPS in panel quality. *shrug*
I would just think more people here would be looking for S-IPS panels if they are supposedly the best right now.
I would just think more people here would be looking for S-IPS panels if they are supposedly the best right now.
they are the most CRT like hence they are the best.
mike_j_johnson
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Considering I went from a...
Samsung 244T
6ms G2G
24"WS Samsung S-PVA (LTM240M2)
...to a...
LG L246WP
8ms G2G
24"WS AU Optronics P-MVA (M240UW01 V0)
...and feel that the Samsung 244T is a superior panel, what are your thoughts on going from the LG that I currently have, to a...
NEC LCD2490WUXi
8ms G2G
24"WS LG.Philips H-IPS A-TW Pol (LM240WU2)
...? Will the NEC be better than both the LG and even the Samsung? Is it worth spending $1200? I am looking for the best quality picture (i.e. contrast, colors, etc.) that I can get for gaming while keeping the price to around $1000 or so. I am just not happy with the LG at all. I am not worried about input lag, etc. I have never had a problem with this on either the Samsung or LG. I am simply talking about picture quality issues.
Samsung 244T
6ms G2G
24"WS Samsung S-PVA (LTM240M2)
...to a...
LG L246WP
8ms G2G
24"WS AU Optronics P-MVA (M240UW01 V0)
...and feel that the Samsung 244T is a superior panel, what are your thoughts on going from the LG that I currently have, to a...
NEC LCD2490WUXi
8ms G2G
24"WS LG.Philips H-IPS A-TW Pol (LM240WU2)
...? Will the NEC be better than both the LG and even the Samsung? Is it worth spending $1200? I am looking for the best quality picture (i.e. contrast, colors, etc.) that I can get for gaming while keeping the price to around $1000 or so. I am just not happy with the LG at all. I am not worried about input lag, etc. I have never had a problem with this on either the Samsung or LG. I am simply talking about picture quality issues.
Furious Salesman
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Well. The Nec display solutions web site put the MSRP at 1200. The official online resellers put them for a little bit lower. Except one, Buy.com is an official reseller for NEC. Their price is 825 with free shipping. That makes it a rather nice price.
Edit. I just checked and the price, it has reverted back to 1099 with free shipping. I guess it was either a price mistake or a special promotion.
The LG246 is a good monitor. I can't say how much more you would enjoy a 24" IPS monitor.
Edit. I just checked and the price, it has reverted back to 1099 with free shipping. I guess it was either a price mistake or a special promotion.
The LG246 is a good monitor. I can't say how much more you would enjoy a 24" IPS monitor.
Most people look for the cheapest not the best. Here is what Behardware said about viewing angles of the various types in a recent review. They are one of the few that actually get it:
Viewing angles which are farcically quoted as 170 Degrees+ on everything, make a mockery of including the stat. For actual decent all around viewing angles only S-IPS is really any good. Distant second actually goes to TN because it has better horizontal contrast maintenance, where VA panels really fally apart. I hate VA panels, I went through two VA panels before I went for a cheap TN while I search for a decent S-IPS. TN is at least tolerable, but still unsuited to any kind of image editing work.
The NEC 2490 and the Hazro 24" are the only 24" monitors I would even consider. The Nec is a gem in my opinion, if it matches the 2690, it will have 12 bit lookup table that can be hardware calibrated in the monitor (most monitor calibration is done on your computer and only calibration aware apps will be calibrated), it has switchable overdrive that works well, it has great color, amazing viewing angles. IMO the best 24" monitor out there. Like a really sharp CRT.
With the NEC you can do almost everything from fast games to professional level color work.
vick1000
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Ditto in every respect. Once you go IPS, everything else is garbage. The problem is they are rare above 23" in computer monitors, the NEC 24" and NEC/ Planar 26" are all that exist beyond the 30" models (and Televisions like LG and Phillips).
I went with the 20" NEC 20WMGX2, just to get IPS and Opticlear at a reasonable price, and I could not be happier without spending $1K+ on a 30".
I went with the 20" NEC 20WMGX2, just to get IPS and Opticlear at a reasonable price, and I could not be happier without spending $1K+ on a 30".
i have the 26" planar option.
lag is insanely nonexistent as I have said in a previous post.
no LCD has decent viewing angles. more than 20 degrees and all panels look a lot crappier.
170 claim is dumb. the best have like a 60 degree angle, 30 from center left or right. up down its like 10% up or down.
plasma and crt are the real viewing angle champs.
lag is insanely nonexistent as I have said in a previous post.
no LCD has decent viewing angles. more than 20 degrees and all panels look a lot crappier.
170 claim is dumb. the best have like a 60 degree angle, 30 from center left or right. up down its like 10% up or down.
plasma and crt are the real viewing angle champs.
Disinfo.
iMac 24" models (both old and new) have S-PVA panel. 23" Apple Cinema Display uses S-IPS though, and price went down months ago. However, given that 23" ACD has only 1 year warranty, plus there are several serious issues with those displays countless users are reporting, I'm not sure if it's very good option.
24" NEC is definitely best option in terms of picture / color quality. Is it worth 1200$? Depends on your budget and needs.
Actually you are posting the dis-information. Both 24" iMacs have IPS panels. On an iMac there are programs to read out the panel details and the new Alu 24" has the latest H-IPS panel the same as the NEC 2490.
yeah, you can find them for lower 900's too.
Apple would absolutely hang themselves permanently if they used anything but a perfect correct IPS screen. they are the best. I didnt know that. Only for computer use though, dont expect compatibility for other resolutions.
I was considering th 24" apple over the planar, but the text size is too small for my eyes where I sit.
Apple would absolutely hang themselves permanently if they used anything but a perfect correct IPS screen. they are the best. I didnt know that. Only for computer use though, dont expect compatibility for other resolutions.
I was considering th 24" apple over the planar, but the text size is too small for my eyes where I sit.
New Apple cinemas in January, Im waiting until then as its only 3 weeks.
24" IMAC is using the latest 24" panel from LGP, the 20" is TN again from LGP. The cinema displays use only IPS panels.
mike_j_johnson
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Might be a stupid question, but do PCs have any issues running Apple displays?
If the Apples are running the same H-IPS panel the NEC is using, then I may choose Apple over NEC because of aesthetics...heh
If the Apples are running the same H-IPS panel the NEC is using, then I may choose Apple over NEC because of aesthetics...heh
NOT YET!
ONLY THE NEW CINEMA DISPLAYS WILL HAVE THE H-IPS, all current apple displays are using previous generation IPS panels and are all end of life.
If you want to do professional level color work, and have consistent color across applications, probably. It enables you calibrate the monitor internally. On most monitors you really calibrate the PC, not the monitor, and only applications that are calibration aware will be calibrated. The question is how important having calibration for every applications is for you.
No problems running on a PC, but:
1: Apple doesn't make a 24" monitor with the panel yet, just a 24" imac, it is just an assumption that the monitor will follow soon.
2: Apple will only have one input. NEC has 3 dvi/vga inputs making it more flexible.
3: The Apple likely has no controls, the NEC has a wide array of controls with switchable overdrive, 12 bit LUT, etc...
The NEC is the better monitor, I would not get the Apple unless it is much cheaper and I don't think that will be the case.
firas
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Did anybody answer the dudes Q 
Did anybody answer the dudes Q
What was his question again?
If he can wait until February 08 for the Electronics shows, then we will have better picture of what IPS monitors will be offered.
mike_j_johnson
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Thanks guys! The NEC seems like the choice, but maybe I will wait another month or so. Would be interesting to see some affordable (yeah right) LED panels, display port panels, maybe even 120Hz, etc. Also interested to see Apples new cinema panels. If nothing looks good, then at least the NEC might be cheaper by then.
Thanks guys! The NEC seems like the choice, but maybe I will wait another month or so. Would be interesting to see some affordable (yeah right) LED panels, display port panels, maybe even 120Hz, etc. Also interested to see Apples new cinema panels. If nothing looks good, then at least the NEC might be cheaper by then.
there are no IPS LED backlit panels of 24" or above planed for at least another 6-9 months. Only S-PVA (samsung XL20, XL24 and XL30) for the time being, seems a waste to pair VA based panels with LEDs, what a joke.
I have a BenQ FP241W A-MVA, Dell 2007WFP S-IPS and a BenQ FP91G+ TN monitor beside each other and the TN panel, has by far, has the worst viewing angles. I don't understand how is can be said a good TN panel is better than a good *VA panel terms of viewing angle. Or how you can choose a TN panel over a *VA except for response time.
Which viewing angles? Vertical or Horizontal?
Lets just say both Behardware and I disagree with you. I won't waste a lot of my time arguing over it, but I had two VA screens (The second was accidental courtesy of the Dell lotto) and every VA panel I have seen does the horizontal gamma shifting really bad (AKA black crush). I bought a cheap TN screen to replace it and it is ten times better in that department. TN problems lie in the vertical direction which I don't find even remotely as annoying until I flip the panel into portrait (then the problem becomes horizontal) then it gets just as annoying. So horizontal gamma shifts drive me nuts. Vertical ones not so much YMMV.
Now I realize a large chunk of people can't see the tone shift or don't care about it, but here is a perfect example of the VA black crush/gamma shift for the uninformed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sC7EozTCGSQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03gVDMG7AMg&NR=1
Yeah I know he is moving the camera, but that is to illustrate the problem. I think it makes obvious to everyone what is happening. Now it doesn't just happen when you move, it happens when object on screen move. A dark car can disappear into the shadows in the center of the screen and fade back in as it approaches the side.
Again some people don't notice VA shift. Some people don't notice that TN gets darker toward the top of the screen and lighter toward the bottom. Some people don't notice the smearing or input lags on slower screens. I notice it all.
My rankings for general usage are IPS > TN > VA.
IPS screen are fantastic for just about everything. You want the best you have to pay for it. If you want cheaper in my opinion you go with TN which is less expensive, has less smear, less input lag, and better horizontal viewing angles than VA screens. But hey if you are convinced that better than TN vertical viewing angles is really worth more money, poorer horizontal viewing angles, slower response times, more input lags, then by all means buy it. I won't touch VA and I will not recommend one to anyone. To me there are two type of panels. IPS for those who want the best and TN for those who are value conscious.
vick1000
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Black crush is part of the reason for the "good" black levels. Just don't try to distiguish 00/00/00 from 20/20/20, because there is none on a VA panel (unless you trun it side ways)
.Still confused. So it's the black crush/ gamma shift that results in loss of detail which is the deal breaker? TN panels don't have this issue but from what I can see, brightness and contrast is a lot lower at extreme horizontal and vertical viewing angles then a *VA panels. Now that you mention it, I do notice the black crush but it doesn't bother me.
Tamlin_WSGF
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If you look at your TN, you'll notice that you can adjust a bit for the vertical image shift, while the horizontal is stable when you look directly at the screen. TN's have a predictable shift vertically, while VA's shift even when looking straight at the screen and the shift changes even when you move your head a little.
Backlight bleed is a dealbreaker for many. Even though it would only affect the lowest shades of black. Backlight bleed is an uniformity issue.
Now, with VA's you have a uniformity issue when it comes to all shades, not only the lowest. Even with perfect calibration results, the image will still be warped when light arrives where you are sitting. Calibration probes doesn't take viewing angles into account and VA's aren't stable at any angle. Neither center nor sides.
If you look at these pictures, doesn't the VA screen look defect here?:
http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1031371458&postcount=58
Black crush is part of the reason for the "good" black levels. Just don't try to distiguish 00/00/00 from 20/20/20, because there is none on a VA panel (unless you trun it side ways)
agreed. I remember trying to play doom3 on the Dell 2405, man what a joke.
That was my first post CRT, LCD. It showed me all the things that could be wrong with an LCD monitor and how bad the manufacturers exaggerate specs. 178degree viewing angles? Ha! The input lag was high, the smearing/ghosting was high, and the panel brightness would scar your retinas. I got rid of it right away.
This was also my introduction to how oblivious most people were, proclaiming this monitor as perfect, even most of the review sites were blowing smoke on it.
mike_j_johnson
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Well...I could not wait any longer and just pulled the trigger on a NEC LCD2490WUXi-BK. This is the model without the hardware/software calibration.
Now I need someone to recommend a good calibration method that will work in Vista 64. I would rather calibrate the monitor itself than creating ICM profiles, etc.
Can anyone help?
Now I need someone to recommend a good calibration method that will work in Vista 64. I would rather calibrate the monitor itself than creating ICM profiles, etc.
Can anyone help?
I have had an NEC 2490WUXi for a little over a month now. It is awesome. Yes, it costs an arm and a leg, but it is awesome. It uses an H-IPS panel, which as far as I know is only in that NEC and the 24" iMac (on which I am typing right now). There is a 26" H-IPS in the Mistubishi RDT261W as well.
I heard complaints of input lag but it doesn't affect me. I can hit Q3 bots with the rail the same as I used to on my CRT, and playing scout online in Team Fortress 2, no problems. Amazing color, no ghosting, no banding, awesome viewing angles, even illumination, it is the best LCD I have used outside of the 30" IPS displays.
And like those 30" it costs an arm and a leg, that's the only tradeoff. I will be keeping this monitor for many many years, so it is worth it for me if I break it down like that.
I heard complaints of input lag but it doesn't affect me. I can hit Q3 bots with the rail the same as I used to on my CRT, and playing scout online in Team Fortress 2, no problems. Amazing color, no ghosting, no banding, awesome viewing angles, even illumination, it is the best LCD I have used outside of the 30" IPS displays.
And like those 30" it costs an arm and a leg, that's the only tradeoff. I will be keeping this monitor for many many years, so it is worth it for me if I break it down like that.
Manny Calavera
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Get the Nec mentioned in this thread.I am going to grab one,possibly this Spring when the newer faster cards from Nvidia arrive.
Vengance_01
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Yup you are wrong. Both the new Alu and most of the older White Core 2 Imacs use LG HS-IPS panels.
Yup, like it's been said, this is incorrect. The older 24" iMacs used S-IPS panels and the current 24" aluminum iMacs use the same H-IPS panel found in the NEC 2490WUXi.
Got them both sitting side by side on my desk, they're pretty nice.
lightscreen
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I have been considering this monitor.
Since it doesn't have HDMI but DVI:
1) Can you hook a HD source to it?
2) WIll it properly scale the HD source?
3) If you have HD/Blu( LG) DVD in a PC will it properly display HD/Blu movies at 1080P?
Thanks