24 Geeky Wisconsin Protest Signs

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xveganx said:
That poster also isn't considering that we have taken more and more money out of education over the years. The average is 30-40 kids in a classroom PER teacher, how much can you expect?

If we prioritized education more and got the margin down to 10-20 kids per teacher, results would be much better.

The suggestion that a "mom stay home and teach her kids" stinks of racist privilege at its very core. That said, racist privilege is at the core of most conservative ideas about things.
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Well at least it's not 60-100 kids per teacher, and two classes per classroom. Or hallway. Or under the tree and the students bring their own tables and chairs.
 
I dislike the protests currently going on as they're the typical "bus everyone in that's calling in sick with the blue flu" variety. Compare that with the Tea Party protests where people had to schedule time off in advance. People working real jobs would get fired for calling in sick and heading off to a protest, but union employees can get away with it, and get transportation and food all provided courtesy of the unions.

That being said, the Imperial Walker is pretty nifty and well executed. I salute their creativity even though I disagree with what they're doing.
 
nutzo said:
Actually the average teacher salary in Madison,WI is $55,000, plus $45,000 in benefits.
The $45,000 in benefits is because they pay almost nothing for medical and retirement.
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Stop reading right-wing propaganda. This has been totally debunked in a number of places, I suggest you look it up.

A teacher with 10 years experience was earning $41,000 a year. While the benefits are good, they have been totally exaggerated in the right-wing news media, and often come at the expense of lower wages.

Not only that,

The union has already offered the proposed concessions on both wages and benefits, they simply refuse to lose their right to negotiate for them back later. This proves that isn't about money, but about breaking the back of the union.

Add to the fact that when actually accounting for equivalent experience and education, studies have shown that the pubic employees in Wisconsin earn considerably less than their private sector counterparts. Wages have been stagnant in the US, ever since Ronald Reagan's economic policies were implemented, that blame does not lay at the feet of union workers that is for sure.
 
xveganx said:
fy2010spendingbycategor.jpg
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Fail. Now look up what Wisconsin spends on defense and education. You're socialist/marxist public school teacher probably failed to teach you we have a republican form of govt - too busy teaching you how to whine.
 
satsunada said:
Yeah.. cuz so many mom's can just stay at home and teach their kids these days....

On top of that, there's evidence and studies (see? I can generalize too) that shows homeschooled kids do poorer in college because of social issues and over or under focused subject study.
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Just an example. Kids sitting at home on internet classes learn more, kids sitting in $4000 a year private schools learn more, etc. Public education with unions is a fail. Everyone knows this.

Thank goodness "we the people" are waking up a deciding not to pay for it.
 
nilepez said:
If you hire a teacher to sit down with your kids for 8 hours days (let's assume no more than 2 kids in your house), then your kid will be better educated. Of course that type of teaching is very expensive....unless, of course, the mom's has no skills to work, in which case I question her ability to teach.
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I went to a private school. Cost $4000 a year until 8th grade. Then it went to $9000. (mainly because of sports which we had everything from Football to girls synchronized swimming) what a waste... anyway - public school here spends $12,500 every year and only 50% graduate and they score like cap on SAT.
 
nutzo said:
Actually the average teacher salary in Madison,WI is $55,000, plus $45,000 in benefits.
The $45,000 in benefits is because they pay almost nothing for medical and retirement.
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Whatever they make we can't afford it. We are going broke thus they will make less. Simple math.

If we talk about worth $5.25-$7.00 an hour would be about right since that's what baby sitters get.
 
xveganx said:
Stop reading right-wing propaganda. This has been totally debunked in a number of places, I suggest you look it up.

A teacher with 10 years experience was earning $41,000 a year. While the benefits are good, they have been totally exaggerated in the right-wing news media, and often come at the expense of lower wages.

Not only that,

The union has already offered the proposed concessions on both wages and benefits, they simply refuse to lose their right to negotiate for them back later. This proves that isn't about money, but about breaking the back of the union.

Add to the fact that when actually accounting for equivalent experience and education, studies have shown that the pubic employees in Wisconsin earn considerably less than their private sector counterparts. Wages have been stagnant in the US, ever since Ronald Reagan's economic policies were implemented, that blame does not lay at the feet of union workers that is for sure.
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Then obvious solution is to fire all public school employees and let them get hired in private market. Everyone wins. Teachers since they will make more. Tax payers since private vouchers will cost less. And kids since private out perform public.

I wonder how many of these state leeches would be on board with that? Why not?
 
Abolish all pro sports unions too, I want players to make $50k each with garbage health insurance so the owners can keep the billions they deserve.
 
As far as wages being stagnate is because American are little bitches theses days. Who want's to work with them? Perpetual whiners, strikers, slackers.. Fuck that. Capital moves off shore to the East or even Germany is kicking ass.
 
ZoNe said:
I went to a private school. Cost $4000 a year until 8th grade. Then it went to $9000. (mainly because of sports which we had everything from Football to girls synchronized swimming) what a waste... anyway - public school here spends $12,500 every year and only 50% graduate and they score like cap on SAT.
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When was this? Private schools with good reputations here in Hawaii cost $15,000-$17,000 a year. WAY out of reach for those with median / low incomes
 
xveganx said:
When was this? Private schools with good reputations here in Hawaii cost $15,000-$17,000 a year. WAY out of reach for those with median / low incomes
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I'm 26 so... Yeah HI is expensive. Montessori around here is like that too - but generally all private is less than public. Especially the Catholic schools which is where I went even though I'm not religious - they take everyone.
 
It would not be out of reach if tax payers gave vouchers to lower income people. It would save money because public is so expensive. There are many successful voucher programs in inner cities the labor unions don't want you to know about - but you can google it.
 
I'm generally against public funding of anything because something for free is not respected (like all to many kids and parents who don't care) but vouchers at least eliminates to teachers/administration who does not care.
 
acidic said:
People put too much emphasis on class size. Back maybe forty years ago, we had bigger classes and students performed better.

Then you look at other countries such as China and India where there are far more students per classroom and yet doing much better than us in science and math. Why is that? I doubt they have better paid teachers or facilities.

It's the culture. More money/Smaller classes isn't going to help if the parents isn't going to help and the student isn't willing to learn.
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I had 20 - 30 in mine, and yeah we didn't all fail. And that wasn't 40 years ago. i'm only 30.

ZoNe said:
Then obvious solution is to fire all public school employees and let them get hired in private market. Everyone wins. Teachers since they will make more. Tax payers since private vouchers will cost less. And kids since private out perform public.

I wonder how many of these state leeches would be on board with that? Why not?
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ZoNe said:
I'm generally against public funding of anything because something for free is not respected (like all to many kids and parents who don't care) but vouchers at least eliminates to teachers/administration who does not care.
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That is what Indiana is trying to do. If you want to pull your kid out of public school and send them to a character school the state will stop giving the money for you kid to the local public school and will instead give it to that charter school. Not sure how many others states might be trying to do the same. Most teachers here hate it. I actually like what they are trying to do. Every year teachers don't just get a raise for the hell of it, instead they have be evaluated if they pass that then they can get a raise. If teachers don't do well and a lot of kids fail, parents start pulling their kids out and sending them to better schools, also the teachers stop getting raises which will make them actually have to put effort into their job.
 
LOL of course they hate it. May have to actually work for a living like everyone else.

I hope you guys succeed on a scale like that. The small examples the press muffles.
 
Monkey34 said:
I do think of the children.....being safe because those "babysitting" prison officers are watching the murderers, rapists, and other violent offenders right in the next unit of those non-violent offenders.
I'll give you a another clue too......the vast majority of home invasions, thefts, assaults and other crimes are the direct result of drug offenders who are trying to feed their habit, protect their territory, or crimes committed under the influence. So much for "non violent and not a threat to themselves or others".
Corrections officers are not overpaid, just under-appreciated. They have to deal with the people nobody else wants to on a daily basis.
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You are the tool of tools. Crime in this country during the last 100 years at one time or another was blamed on alcohol, African Americans, other ethnic groups, and many other things. Show me some statistics that show home invasions, thefts, assaults, and other crimes are statistically proven to be drug related. Because I'll tell you something, they are absolutely not. Much like alcohol most people who use drugs can control their drug use and it doesn't lead to any harmful effects for themselves or others. There are some people who can not, but much like alcoholism this is a health issue and not a crime issue. There are some sick people in this world and we do need prisons to keep those people away from society, but at least 25% of the prison population and probably 50% of the probation and parole population is in the system for non-violent drug crimes. And paying 100s or 1000s of public employees $60,000 a year in salary and benefits to watch people who aside from possessing or selling drugs have done absolutely nothing wrong is the primary reason why the states in this country are broke.
 
xveganx said:
The suggestion that a "mom stay home and teach her kids" stinks of racist privilege at its very core. That said, racist privilege is at the core of most conservative ideas about things.
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It's not racist, but it is a very myopic view. What might work for certain families won't for most due to monetary or parental education limitations. Of course if those parents than can afford to stay home and home school their kids are willing to each other kids, for free, whose parents can't do it, then maybe it'd work.
 
ZoNe said:
LOL of course they hate it. May have to actually work for a living like everyone else.

I hope you guys succeed on a scale like that. The small examples the press muffles.
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My wife is not teaching in Wisconsin, but that is pretty offensive. My wife has dual degrees and a masters. She is at work from 7am to 6pm every weekday. Teaching is not simply a 9 to 3 or whatever job. Also, her insurance is worse -- and more expensive, than mine. Given all that, she makes less than a typical secretary makes in town for answering phones. She's obviously not in the job for the money, but saying teachers -- in general -- do not work is a bit asinine.
 
Exavior said:
For us to get levels down to 10 - 20 kids the cost of public schooling would have to sky rocket and at that point you might as well be sending your kids to private as it would cost just as much.

Nationwide only 30% of 8th grader read at a proficient level. if we look at the numbers released for Wincosin here recently and assume those to be about average.

2% - advanced
32% - proficient
66% - below proficient (broken up as 44% - basic, 22% below basic)

that means 2/3 of the kids can't read at level.

for math 25% are proficient.

Yes in some cases the problem is too many kids in a class, but in others it is just bad teachers. I also blame the no child left behind. When i was in grade school they split us up for reading and math, advanced kids in one class, normal kids in another, below normal in another. now adays you can't do that. You have to teach at the level and speed of the dumbest kid in the class. So instead of having a few kids that are not learning correctly you have an entire class. It is also up to the parents to some extent but not all will put the time or effort in. My old administrative assistant used to bitch and moan about how her son couldn't ever pass math and would call the school and complain to the teachers for them not teaching her son. But there is only so much a teacher can do. it is up to you as a parent to help your child if they are doing bad in school and need help. Either you sit down with them and help them, you find them a tutor, you enroll them in a learning center or you enroll them into a school for kids with learning problems.
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I was about to disagree with your post, but I 100% agree with this last paragraph. Nevertheless, if you're a poor family, a tutor is out of your price range and in some cases the parent(s) are working 2 jobs. With that said, they still have charter programs for students, so there are advanced classes.
 
nilepez said:
It's not racist, but it is a very myopic view. What might work for certain families won't for most due to monetary or parental education limitations. Of course if those parents than can afford to stay home and home school their kids are willing to each other kids, for free, whose parents can't do it, then maybe it'd work.
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I would argue that it is racist, but lets not split hairs. There is also a sexist connotation implied about "mothers" being expected to stay home. It is no accident that the poster in question did not imply that fathers should stay home and teach their children.

To add insult to injury, this "voucher" you all speak of would not work. It makes it so that only a select few are able to go to private schools. Need I mention that private schools are exclusive by nature and maintain small class sizes. The argument that "private school is cheaper" is silly too. Not only is that not reality at the more academically prestigious schools, even where it may be true, it does not take into account the benefit of a progressive tax system. Those from lower socio-economic status pay only a % of tax that is relevant to their income level, and thus the burden of paying for education is a communal one. Those from lower socio-economic status would have to pay CONSIDERABLY more than they would through public education financing funneled through a progressive tax system.
 
ZoNe said:
Fail. Now look up what Wisconsin spends on defense and education. You're socialist/marxist public school teacher probably failed to teach you we have a republican form of govt - too busy teaching you how to whine.
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Did you go to private school? I went to both. The only difference between them was class size.
 
ZoNe said:
I went to a private school. Cost $4000 a year until 8th grade. Then it went to $9000. (mainly because of sports which we had everything from Football to girls synchronized swimming) what a waste... anyway - public school here spends $12,500 every year and only 50% graduate and they score like cap on SAT.
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That's a misleading figure. Public schools have special needs children that cost significantly more than your typical student. What's more, private schools can pick what students they accept and those that are paying 5-10k/year for school are more affluent, better educated and can afford tutors in most cases.

But more than that, if your private school was spending 3k/year for high school sports, your public school may have spent more. I've seen stadiums for high school football that look almost like a college stadium might have looked 50 or 60 years ago.
 
ZoNe said:
Just an example. Kids sitting at home on internet classes learn more, kids sitting in $4000 a year private schools learn more, etc. Public education with unions is a fail. Everyone knows this.

Thank goodness "we the people" are waking up a deciding not to pay for it.
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The only way you can prove your point is if your private school has the same number of kids/class and they cannot choose who is in the class. For example, if the school is in Milwaukee, the class each year is determined by a random drawing of every person in the county. Those than can't afford tuition will have it paid by the state. And as I said, they must have similar class sizes. Thus, if the public classes have 35 students, then the same is true for the private school

I went to a private high school for Jr./Sr. year and the class sizes were all under 20. That was the main difference between the schools.
 
SilverSliver said:
My wife is not teaching in Wisconsin, but that is pretty offensive. My wife has dual degrees and a masters. She is at work from 7am to 6pm every weekday. Teaching is not simply a 9 to 3 or whatever job. Also, her insurance is worse -- and more expensive, than mine. Given all that, she makes less than a typical secretary makes in town for answering phones. She's obviously not in the job for the money, but saying teachers -- in general -- do not work is a bit asinine.
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And she is half retired too like all teachers with months off here and there. And you're not nearly as offended as the tax payer with the garbage they produce while stealing their money to do it in the form of: pay your taxes or lose your house. Mine is just words, sticks and stones, teachers OTOH take real money away from us.

Real Workers are not opposed to free market deciding their pay/benefits/time off rather than stacking phone banks and blackmailing politicians like they do. Union Workers don't want to be at mercy of market who would demand performance for remuneration rather than blackmail and coercion. That's the point.
 
xveganx said:
I would argue that it is racist, but lets not split hairs. There is also a sexist connotation implied about "mothers" being expected to stay home. It is no accident that the poster in question did not imply that fathers should stay home and teach their children.

To add insult to injury, this "voucher" you all speak of would not work. It makes it so that only a select few are able to go to private schools. Need I mention that private schools are exclusive by nature and maintain small class sizes. The argument that "private school is cheaper" is silly too. Not only is that not reality at the more academically prestigious schools, even where it may be true, it does not take into account the benefit of a progressive tax system. Those from lower socio-economic status pay only a % of tax that is relevant to their income level, and thus the burden of paying for education is a communal one. Those from lower socio-economic status would have to pay CONSIDERABLY more than they would through public education financing funneled through a progressive tax system.
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"Racist sexists"LOL you sound like typical narcissistic care bear pussified generation that is raised and educated by these communist idealist hippy washouts. Try this: no mo money.
 
nilepez said:
Did you go to private school? I went to both. The only difference between them was class size.
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Yeah. No the difference is Bishop Gorman where I went sent over 90% to college. (I didn't go tho) Graduates over 90%. And has SAT mean over 200 pts any public HS in Las Vegas. The Hispanics which is about 30% do much better than that even compared to public. We had huge class sizes.
 
xveganx said:
That poster also isn't considering that we have taken more and more money out of education over the years. The average is 30-40 kids in a classroom PER teacher, how much can you expect?

If we prioritized education more and got the margin down to 10-20 kids per teacher, results would be much better.

The suggestion that a "mom stay home and teach her kids" stinks of racist privilege at its very core. That said, racist privilege is at the core of most conservative ideas about things.
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If we fired all the teachers and replaced them with computers I'd bet that would work better. I was at the top of my class in high school and half my classes consisted of reading the newspaper on the computer or hanging out in PE.
 
ZoNe said:
And she is half retired too like all teachers with months off here and there. And you're not nearly as offended as the tax payer with the garbage they produce while stealing their money to do it in the form of: pay your taxes or lose your house. Mine is just words, sticks and stones, teachers OTOH take real money away from us.

Real Workers are not opposed to free market deciding their pay/benefits/time off rather than stacking phone banks and blackmailing politicians like they do. Union Workers don't want to be at mercy of market who would demand performance for remuneration rather than blackmail and coercion. That's the point.
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There is no teachers union in the State of Texas with any real power. I believe in the complete abolishment of unions, in general.
 
nilepez said:
The only way you can prove your point is if your private school has the same number of kids/class and they cannot choose who is in the class. For example, if the school is in Milwaukee, the class each year is determined by a random drawing of every person in the county. Those than can't afford tuition will have it paid by the state. And as I said, they must have similar class sizes. Thus, if the public classes have 35 students, then the same is true for the private school

I went to a private high school for Jr./Sr. year and the class sizes were all under 20. That was the main difference between the schools.
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If you're interested in this spend some time doing research. It's really overwhelming: Private costs less and does better.

How it can even be argued when unions destroy all they touch? From our Auto industry to education.
 
SilverSliver said:
There is no teachers union in the State of Texas with any real power. I believe in the complete abolishment of unions, in general.
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I must apologize - Texas has as close as a free market as you can get . It did sound strange your wife was putting in such long hours.... My oldest brother teaches kindergarten in SD, makes 75K BTW, and puts in no where near that kind of time but I blew it off thinking you were talking about finals week or something.
 
PersonalJ said:
If we fired all the teachers and replaced them with computers I'd bet that would work better. I was at the top of my class in high school and half my classes consisted of reading the newspaper on the computer or hanging out in PE.
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This is more ture than you know

Study finds online beats classrooms

Just think how much we'd save in schoolhouses, buses, teachers, administrators, janitors etc.

Time for education to move on to the digital age. Current school system is horse and buggy.
 
Taldren said:
Geesh, where did they find all that time off to be so creative and display their work like that? If I did that at my job I would be fired and then they would have to raise taxes on everyone else to pay for their union salaries. After all, their jobs are a right. :rolleyes:
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Yeah because we have no other lives than working 24/7/365, right?

We only work about 8 hours a day and there's 24 hours in a day. I'd say there's far more than enough time to do just about anything. The protest has been going on for quite a few days too.

On topic: I like the Y U NO RESIGN!?!?! poster.
 
xveganx said:
Enough bullshit, this is what private educations REALLY cost...

PER YEAR

Tuition for the 2010 – 2011 school year for Grades K – 12 is $17,800

http://www.punahou.edu/page.cfm?p=1793

Tuition: kindergarten ~ grade 12

$16,150

http://www.iolani.org/affording.htm
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What did you do find the most expensive school? Talk about bullshit.

Here is school I and all my brothers and sisters went in Las Vegas
http://www.saintannelasvegas.org/admission_policies_tuition_and_fees
2010-2011 Tuition Rates
Registered and Contributing Parishioners
Child(ren) Annual Rate 11 Equal Monthly Payments

* One $3520 $320
* Two $5225 $475
* Three or more $6160 $560
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