• Some users have recently had their accounts hijacked. It seems that the now defunct EVGA forums might have compromised your password there and seems many are using the same PW here. We would suggest you UPDATE YOUR PASSWORD and TURN ON 2FA for your account here to further secure it. None of the compromised accounts had 2FA turned on.
    Once you have enabled 2FA, your account will be updated soon to show a badge, letting other members know that you use 2FA to protect your account. This should be beneficial for everyone that uses FSFT.

24/32 cores Threadripper coming?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Doubt anything next gen is coming out this year, or even beginning of next year. I also think we will see next-gen Ryzen before the next-gen Threadripper.

I think the price drop is in line with how fast the Ryzen price dropped as well. AMD initially set the price high because they knew Ryzen would sell amazingly well and made a nice quick chunk of change. Now that sales probably died down a bit at the high prices, good idea to lower them a bit encouraging people who didn't want to pay the full amount, to buy them now.
 
The current Threadripper platform cannot support more than 16 cores. Stop pretending that it can support more, that's what EPYC was built for.

Getting more cores on a die would be the only way, and that's not happening for a few years.

That price correction is in-response to Intel FINALLY shipping the rest of their Skylake-X lineup (12-18 cores). Before that, the fastest processor was just ten cores, so AMD could milk that price.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16819117811

Remember, Intel was ONLY planning on making Skylake-X 10 core like it's predecessor. But that 12-ccore part I linked is a little too close to AMD's price/performance, so AMD opened up the price window a little more. It's now a better value than it was on release.
 
Last edited:
As fun as it would be to see something like that this year. They will most likely wait to refine the product line(mobo ram support and all that jazz).

Especially with the rumored zen2 having better ipc that will make threadripper 2.0 even better value.

AND if they do have something like say, Ryzen Threadripper 2959X with 32 physical cores or even just 24.

Intel better kiss their ass goodbye.

Imagine if it will support current gen motherboards too. LIKE THEY PROMISE.
 
OofC_S7v7N said:
As fun as it would be to see something like that this year. They will most likely wait to refine the product line(mobo ram support and all that jazz).

Especially with the rumored zen2 having better ipc that will make threadripper 2.0 even better value.

AND if they do have something like say, Ryzen Threadripper 2959X with 32 physical cores or even just 24.

Intel better kiss their ass goodbye.

Imagine if it will support current gen motherboards too. LIKE THEY PROMISE.
Click to expand...

Zen2 is a 2019 product. Next year I would expect a Richland-like update of ThreadRipper.

Where did AMD promise that future Zen 2 chips will be supported in current mobos?

I expect Zen2 ThreadRipper to have up to 24-cores in a [(6x2) x 2] configuration.

About Intel, I did heard the same three or four times this year. It didn't happen. And of course, Intel will have Skylake-X replaced with something faster when Zen 2 is ready.
 
It will remain at 16/32 because of the complexity of interconnect and resultant latency. Remember, Ryzen dies are 8core 2 CCX. That fundamental will not change next year.
Edit- the chant is "moar cores!", but architecture of the basic CCX unit will not change except maybe in 2019 . A lot can happen in that time.
 
The single socket EPYC chips, especially the EPYC 7401P, are really reasonably priced compared to intel offerings. If you need loads of cores and don't need overclocking those would be a good choice.
 
If the pricing is being lowered, either another product is in the wings and they are trying to clear inventory, or they aren't meeting sales goals and are trying to get more volume.

My vote is on the latter, as we pretty well know what the timeline and blueprint are for Zen2 - but I can't say that with any certainty.
 
N4CR said:
AMD is keeping AM4 until 2020 as they have stated, Unlike Intel with their already dead z370 to be replaced by z390.
Click to expand...

So AMD promised that will maintain the socket.

Socket != chipset.

Since Z370 chipset is mentioned, let me remark that Z370 and Z270 both use the same LGA 1151 socket.

So the question made in #9 remains: "Where did AMD promise that future Zen 2 chips will be supported in current mobos?" So far as I know AMD only promised the AM4 socket will be used for post-Zen products. Also AMD didn't make any similar claim for the TR4 socket used in ThreadRipper products.
 
juanrga said:
So AMD promised that will maintain the socket.

Socket != chipset.

Since Z370 chipset is mentioned, let me remark that Z370 and Z270 both use the same LGA 1151 socket.

So the question made in #9 remains: "Where did AMD promise that future Zen 2 chips will be supported in current mobos?" So far as I know AMD only promised the AM4 socket will be used for post-Zen products. Also AMD didn't make any similar claim for the TR4 socket used in ThreadRipper products.
Click to expand...
But isn't it true you cant put certain Intel generations into sockets ie: 270 cpu into a 370 MoBo? AMD mentioned being able to upgrade your CPU in the same board you bought as well as installing APUs in the same MoBo. Sounds like you are trying to obfuscate and infer from the crap anti-consumer business practices of Intel.

Add: Actually even if features are added AMD will likely make any CPU capable of the new features backwards compatible, as they have done in the past over and over again.
 
I keep seeing non AMD post (reddit, other news site) claiming AM4 and/or Ryzen will be supported for the next 4 years. That is very vague, as ram, chipset, cpu, pcie, whatever could be updated and/or changed which will require you to buy something else. Or... Ryzen+/2 is AM4 socket but requires 4XX chipset to run.

Either way why is this better than Intel? Maybe if there were no improvements (no new memory, ssd, m2, sata 4 etc) and you upgraded the CPU every year for the next 4 years... Then maybe that argument is valid. But one could also say thier z68/2500k from 2012 lasted 5 years before being sold for an z270/7700k, while Intel never officially supported it beyond EOL, damn thing was still usable.

Either way we shall see what thier AM4 support till 2020 will really mean.

Edit: Before anyone thinks I want to defend Intel, I don’t. I wanted to grab a 8700K till I realized I would have to sell at a loss my Rog IX Formula/de-lidded 7700K. I was not happy with thier decision to force an upgrade shortly after Ryzens release...
 
Hakaba said:
I keep seeing non AMD post (reddit, other news site) claiming AM4 and/or Ryzen will be supported for the next 4 years. That is very vague, as ram, chipset, cpu, pcie, whatever could be updated and/or changed which will require you to buy something else. Or... Ryzen+/2 is AM4 socket but requires 4XX chipset to run.

Either way why is this better than Intel? Maybe if there were no improvements (no new memory, ssd, m2, sata 4 etc) and you upgraded the CPU every year for the next 4 years... Then maybe that argument is valid. But one could also say thier z68/2500k from 2012 lasted 5 years before being sold for an z270/7700k, while Intel never officially supported it beyond EOL, damn thing was still usable.

Either way we shall see what thier AM4 support till 2020 will really mean.

Edit: Before anyone thinks I want to defend Intel, I don’t. I wanted to grab a 8700K till I realized I would have to sell at a loss my Rog IX Formula/de-lidded 7700K. I was not happy with thier decision to force an upgrade shortly after Ryzens release...
Click to expand...

you'll probably see new chipsets with every ryzen update released but they'll still keep the backwards compatibility since nothing major is really going to change.. it's just going to depend on what features are added/removed with each new iteration that might be important to you. think of it like the am2/am2+/am3 days, even the am3 phenom II processors were still backwards compatible with the previous 2 generations of sockets but i doubt we'll be moving from DDR4 anytime soon.
 
Hakaba said:
I keep seeing non AMD post (reddit, other news site) claiming AM4 and/or Ryzen will be supported for the next 4 years. That is very vague, as ram, chipset, cpu, pcie, whatever could be updated and/or changed which will require you to buy something else. Or... Ryzen+/2 is AM4 socket but requires 4XX chipset to run.

Either way why is this better than Intel? Maybe if there were no improvements (no new memory, ssd, m2, sata 4 etc) and you upgraded the CPU every year for the next 4 years... Then maybe that argument is valid. But one could also say thier z68/2500k from 2012 lasted 5 years before being sold for an z270/7700k, while Intel never officially supported it beyond EOL, damn thing was still usable.

Either way we shall see what thier AM4 support till 2020 will really mean.

Edit: Before anyone thinks I want to defend Intel, I don’t. I wanted to grab a 8700K till I realized I would have to sell at a loss my Rog IX Formula/de-lidded 7700K. I was not happy with thier decision to force an upgrade shortly after Ryzens release...
Click to expand...

Think of the motherboards that did not have a pcie 3.0 slot but still ran pcie 3.0 cards ... Some of the hardware will not have the fastest solution but in reality some of the features might not be even worth upgrading to a new chipset. What would make sense is when a new standard of ram is introduced (DDR5) but those things can take a while ......

The TR4/X399 platform however might not follow the same path ....
 
Pieter3dnow said:
Think of the motherboards that did not have a pcie 3.0 slot but still ran pcie 3.0 cards ... Some of the hardware will not have the fastest solution but in reality some of the features might not be even worth upgrading to a new chipset. What would make sense is when a new standard of ram is introduced (DDR5) but those things can take a while ......

The TR4/X399 platform however might not follow the same path ....
Click to expand...

AMD has pretty much only changed for ram changes since the athlon x2 days - new ram needs new IMC so even if they didn't change the socket they'd have to build a chip with dual memory controllers (which they actually did! AM3 chips had both so could work on AM2+ boards). I highly doubt they'd change that policy as it's one of the main AMD selling points - buy when they release a new socket and you can upgrade it years down the line. The shortest lived socket may have been socket 754 for the athlon64 as the X2's came out and needed a new socket for dual channel ram.

Beyond that, it was just for ram changes - 939 switched to am2 for ddr2. Then they released AM2+ so people could buy an AM2 processor but upgrade to an AM3 processr. AM3/+ for ddr3. AM4 for ddr4. am3+ was pin compatible with am3 and many motherboards worked with just a bios update - but it was released due to the current draw increase of the later FX chips. Even so, AMD has gone out of their way to make their chips backwards compatible, Intel has done the opposite.

Why would they abandon that with TR4? I think the biggest issue for 24/32 thread TR4 processors will be cooling. They can easily add 2 more die, even if memory latency will be higher on the 2 chips that have to go cross CCX to get memory access, but already you need high end water cooling to cool a 16 core TR4, so I don't imagine a 24/32 core chip will be able to clock very high and stay cool. They may have to wait for the die shrink.
 
bobzdar said:
AMD has pretty much only changed for ram changes since the athlon x2 days - new ram needs new IMC so even if they didn't change the socket they'd have to build a chip with dual memory controllers (which they actually did! AM3 chips had both so could work on AM2+ boards). I highly doubt they'd change that policy as it's one of the main AMD selling points - buy when they release a new socket and you can upgrade it years down the line. The shortest lived socket may have been socket 754 for the athlon64 as the X2's came out and needed a new socket for dual channel ram.

Beyond that, it was just for ram changes - 939 switched to am2 for ddr2. Then they released AM2+ so people could buy an AM2 processor but upgrade to an AM3 processr. AM3/+ for ddr3. AM4 for ddr4. am3+ was pin compatible with am3 and many motherboards worked with just a bios update - but it was released due to the current draw increase of the later FX chips. Even so, AMD has gone out of their way to make their chips backwards compatible, Intel has done the opposite.

Why would they abandon that with TR4? I think the biggest issue for 24/32 thread TR4 processors will be cooling. They can easily add 2 more die, even if memory latency will be higher on the 2 chips that have to go cross CCX to get memory access, but already you need high end water cooling to cool a 16 core TR4, so I don't imagine a 24/32 core chip will be able to clock very high and stay cool. They may have to wait for the die shrink.
Click to expand...
TR4 has a lot of space, two dummy dies could become HBM memory cache - the extra room may have a good purpose or potential purpose later on. AMD looks like they have been experimenting with package type solutions for awhile, particularly with HBM - so who knows if we'll see more capable threaded processors on X399.

Now I could see X470 and X499 chipset having PCIe 3.0 lanes vice 2.0. While for me it would not make a big difference but for some it might be useful with maybe some more added features like more USB 3.1, Thunderbolt etc.
 
JustReason said:
AMD mentioned being able to upgrade your CPU in the same board
Click to expand...

I always expected current AM4 boards to be compatible with 2018 Pinnacle Ridge chips.

Now give us some link with AMD stating that Zen2 products will work in current AM4 and TR4 boards.
 
That Zen2 uses the AM4 platform is a generally accepted view.

What is less clear is whether it will run on today's AM4 boards. This is of course also contingent on the mobo vendor still providing BIOS updates. However, during Ryzen Pro launch, AMD made the following statement:

AMD said:
AM4 infrastructure available for 4+ years and compatible n-2, n-1 and n+1 generation
Click to expand...
So if Zen+1 = Zen2 then current AM4 infrastructure will support Zen2.
 
bobzdar said:
AMD has pretty much only changed for ram changes since the athlon x2 days - new ram needs new IMC so even if they didn't change the socket they'd have to build a chip with dual memory controllers (which they actually did! AM3 chips had both so could work on AM2+ boards). I highly doubt they'd change that policy as it's one of the main AMD selling points - buy when they release a new socket and you can upgrade it years down the line. The shortest lived socket may have been socket 754 for the athlon64 as the X2's came out and needed a new socket for dual channel ram.

Beyond that, it was just for ram changes - 939 switched to am2 for ddr2. Then they released AM2+ so people could buy an AM2 processor but upgrade to an AM3 processr. AM3/+ for ddr3. AM4 for ddr4. am3+ was pin compatible with am3 and many motherboards worked with just a bios update - but it was released due to the current draw increase of the later FX chips. Even so, AMD has gone out of their way to make their chips backwards compatible, Intel has done the opposite.

Why would they abandon that with TR4? I think the biggest issue for 24/32 thread TR4 processors will be cooling. They can easily add 2 more die, even if memory latency will be higher on the 2 chips that have to go cross CCX to get memory access, but already you need high end water cooling to cool a 16 core TR4, so I don't imagine a 24/32 core chip will be able to clock very high and stay cool. They may have to wait for the die shrink.
Click to expand...

Almost true.. am2+ was released for the higher transport speed which am2 couldn't do. Am3+ followed the same change am2+ did. But yes most socket changes have been related to ram. RIP socket 754 we never got to know you..

As far as adding more dies, no. On paper the way ryzen is designed it should be scalable by adding cores to each ccx. So 12 core would be 6x6, 16 would be 8x8. Tr4 can't be expanded to more than 2 dies without huge sacrifices related to memory latency or a complete socket trace redesign to use all 4 imc's but then you start cutting into epyc sales.. So if you have a 6x6 die you can expand tr4 to 24 cores or 8x8 to 32 cores. Only time will tell what they end up doing though. Just think of an 8x8 x 4 epyc chip which would be insane if they go that route.
 
juanrga said:
I always expected current AM4 boards to be compatible with 2018 Pinnacle Ridge chips.

Now give us some link with AMD stating that Zen2 products will work in current AM4 and TR4 boards.
Click to expand...

You are funny Juanrga asking for a link ;)

bobzdar said:
Why would they abandon that with TR4? I think the biggest issue for 24/32 thread TR4 processors will be cooling. They can easily add 2 more die, even if memory latency will be higher on the 2 chips that have to go cross CCX to get memory access, but already you need high end water cooling to cool a 16 core TR4, so I don't imagine a 24/32 core chip will be able to clock very high and stay cool. They may have to wait for the die shrink.
Click to expand...

I can imagine that a platform like TR4/X399 is meant for people with deeper pockets and higher demands where it would seem trivial for most AM4 user that platform has more to gain from having "exclusive" features.

This all depends on the traction it gains, if Threadripper is not selling really well it would not make sense financially .
 
Last edited:
So, as I expected, there is no link, neither confirmation from AMD of what you said Pieter3dnow. :whistle:

AMD only said that AM4 socket will be used for future processors. There is not a single article/announcement/talk with AMD confirming that future Zen2 chips will run in current AM4 motherboards. It is left to general people to believe (or not) that Zen2 will work in current AM4 mobos.

Also AMD didn't say anything about the TR4 socket used in ThreadRipper.
 
chithanh said:
That Zen2 uses the AM4 platform is a generally accepted view.

What is less clear is whether it will run on today's AM4 boards. This is of course also contingent on the mobo vendor still providing BIOS updates. However, during Ryzen Pro launch, AMD made the following statement:

AMD said:
AM4 infrastructure available for 4+ years and compatible n-2, n-1 and n+1 generation
Click to expand...

So if Zen+1 = Zen2 then current AM4 infrastructure will support Zen2.
Click to expand...

That is a very confusing statement from AMD, isn't?

If they are counting RyZen Pro as "n", then

n-2 = Bristol Ridge APU
n-1 = RyZen
n = RyZen Pro
n+1 = Pinnacle Ridge ??? :confused:
 
juanrga said:
So, as I expected, there is no link, neither confirmation from AMD of what you said Pieter3dnow. :whistle:

AMD only said that AM4 socket will be used for future processors. There is not a single article/announcement/talk with AMD confirming that future Zen2 chips will run in current AM4 motherboards. It is left to general people to believe (or not) that Zen2 will work in current AM4 mobos.

Also AMD didn't say anything about the TR4 socket used in ThreadRipper.
Click to expand...

So where is your link then :)
 
When AMD says they plan to support the AM4 socket with future processors that literally means buy a motherboard now and in the future buy a "next gen" processor within the time said and it will work.

What do you not understand about that?

That is how it has always been with AMD.
 
juanrga said:
If they are counting RyZen Pro as "n", then

n-2 = Bristol Ridge APU
n-1 = RyZen
n = RyZen Pro
n+1 = Pinnacle Ridge ??? :confused:
Click to expand...
This is what scientologists actually believe!

For all others: Ryzen Pro isn't the successor of Ryzen.

juanrga said:
There is not a single article/announcement/talk with AMD confirming that future Zen2 chips will run in current AM4 motherboards. It is left to general people to believe (or not) that Zen2 will work in current AM4 mobos.
Click to expand...
But I quoted AMD for you. AMD was pretty explicit about Ryzen Pro that AM4 infrastructure will be compatible to n+1 generation.
 
chithanh said:
This is what scientologists actually believe!

For all others: Ryzen Pro isn't the successor of Ryzen.

But I quoted AMD for you. AMD was pretty explicit about Ryzen Pro that AM4 infrastructure will be compatible to n+1 generation.
Click to expand...

Infrastructure != current mobos

No one said that Ryzen Pro is the successor to RyZen. But AMD counts RyZen PRO as a different family product for the AM4 socket. As I said in my reply to you, that quote from AMD is confusing and they seem to label RyZen Pro as "n" generation.
.
 
juanrga said:
Infrastructure != current mobos

No one said that Ryzen Pro is the successor to RyZen. But AMD counts RyZen PRO as a different family product for the AM4 socket. As I said in my reply to you, that quote from AMD is confusing and they seem to label RyZen Pro as "n" generation.
.
Click to expand...
It isn't confusing. You are just twisting in the wind trying to come up with a way to twist it against AMD.

History lesson... How did the 890 chipset on AM3+ differ from the 990? Would the Vishera CPUs not work on the 990?

You are intentional being daft. It is obvious that AMD intended for the AM4 platform to house a number of generations of CPUs as they have done for decades. They even went so far as to unify all their consumer CPU/APU into one socket, ANNOUNCED not inferred.
 
JustReason said:
It isn't confusing. You are just twisting in the wind trying to come up with a way to twist it against AMD.
Click to expand...

Not only the quote is confusing, but AMD deliberately used abstract sequence values, without explaining what is "n" in the series.

chithanh interpreted that "n+1" = Zen2, but then the rest of the quote doesn't make sense because "n-2" would be Steamroller, which cannot be.

Such abstruse and ambiguous quote wouldn't be needed if everything was so clear as you and others pretend. And the fact that the best quote you and others here can present us is an abstruse and ambiguous quote about the "n-2, n-1 and n+1 generation" says it all.

JustReason said:
History lesson... How did the 890 chipset on AM3+ differ from the 990? Would the Vishera CPUs not work on the 990?
Click to expand...

History lesson? How many people in forums recommended to other people to purchase Bulldozer and AM3+ mobo because the platform would provide a clear update path until Excavator FX? I also recall newsites publishing articles about how AMD promised the socket would support at least one generation of products after the Vishera CPUs. Most people interpreted that promise as meaning that AM3+ mobos would support one generation more of microarchitecture. Check forums: "Steamroller will use AM3+".

In the end, what came to the AM3+ socket (and not to any mobo) was the Piledriver-based Fx-9000 series of products.

So, stop the history lessons and just give us a clear and unambiguous quote where AMD confirms that current AM4 mobos will support Zen2 and Zen3 products.

Note I am not objecting to people believing that their current AM4 mobo will support any AMD CPU up to Zen3. I am denying you claim that AMD has confirmed it officially.
 
Last edited:
juanrga said:
Not only the quote is confusing, but AMD deliberately used abstract sequence values, without explaining what is "n" in the series.

chithanh interpreted that "n+1" = Zen2, but then the rest of the quote doesn't make sense because "n-2" would be Steamroller, which cannot be.

Such abstruse and ambiguous quote wouldn't be needed if everything was so clear as you and others pretend. And the fact that the best quote you and others here can present us is an abstruse and ambiguous quote about the "n-2, n-1 and n+1 generation" says it all.



History lesson? How many people in forums recommended to other people to purchase Bulldozer and AM3+ mobo because the platform would provide a clear update path until Excavator FX? I also recall newsites publishing articles about how AMD promised the socket would support at least one generation of products after the Vishera CPUs. Most people interpreted that promise as meaning that AM3+ mobos would support one generation more of microarchitecture. Check forums: "Steamroller will use AM3+".

In the end, what came to the AM3+ socket (and not to any mobo) was the Piledriver-based Fx-9000 series of products.

So, stop the history lessons and just give us a clear and unambiguous quote where AMD confirms that current AM4 mobos will support Zen2 and Zen3 products.

Note I am not objecting to people believing that their current AM4 mobo will support any AMD CPU up to Zen3. I am denying you claim that AMD has confirmed it officially.
Click to expand...
Your ignorance knows no bounds. It is intentional as you claim to know all but cant seem to be bothered with memory of initial statements.

AMD-Bristol-Ridge-APU_AM4-Platform-740x416.jpg


Alluded here with FUTURE Next Gen processors. But in case that isn't enough

mPsrsTY0xUoEF7DE.jpg


Says PLAIN AS FN DAYLIGHT ZEN 2 CORES - SOCKET AM4 . Any more asinine squirming for Intels favor?
 
Last edited:
juanrga said:
Note I am not objecting to people believing that their current AM4 mobo will support any AMD CPU up to Zen3. I am denying you claim that AMD has confirmed it officially.
Click to expand...

You are just talking nonsense again. And you lack _any_ form of proof for the things you are stating. You are saying that unless AMD confirms it is not true and that is not the way . You Juanrga have to proof that AMD is wrong and that there won't be any AM4 support not AMD.
 
JustReason said:
Your ignorance knows no bounds. It is intentional as you claim to know all but cant seem to be bothered with memory of initial statements.

AMD-Bristol-Ridge-APU_AM4-Platform-740x416.jpg


Alluded here with FUTURE Next Gen processors. But in case that isn't enough

mPsrsTY0xUoEF7DE.jpg


Says PLAIN AS FN DAYLIGHT ZEN 2 CORES - SOCKET AM4 . Any more asinine squirming for Intels favor?
Click to expand...

First slide doesn't say anything close to what was required to settle this question once and for all. Second slide, (which looks fake "Notebookk", "SummitRidge architecture",...) only says "Socket AM4", and as mentioned before in this thread, socket compatibility is not the same than mobo compatibility (check also the example I gave in #13).

Pieter3dnow said:
You are just talking nonsense again. And you lack _any_ form of proof for the things you are stating. You are saying that unless AMD confirms it is not true and that is not the way . You Juanrga have to proof that AMD is wrong and that there won't be any AM4 support not AMD.
Click to expand...

No, that is not what I am saying. I didn't say that it is not true unless AMD confirms. I said that you cannot claim it is true unless AMD confirms. Both are two different claims.

The burden of proof is on you guys. You claim that current AM4 mobos will support any future processor until Zen2. You are who has to prove the claim by finding a quote where AMD claims exactly that.

Instead you only provide slides that don't prove what you pretend or only have ambiguous semimetaphysical claims, such as "AM4 infrastructure available for 4+ years and compatible n-2, n-1 and n+1 generation". No one of you provided a consistent interpretation of that quote from AMD. chithanh suggested that "n+1" = Zen2, but that cannot be correct, because then the rest of the quote doesn't make sense (as explained above).

Since I am certain my words will be misinterpreted again. Let me state again that I am not denying that Zen2 chips will work in current AM4 boards. I am denying your claims that AMD confirmed officially that current AM4 boards will work with Zen2 chips. AMD only confirmed that will use the same AM4 socket, and didn't say anything about the TR4 socket.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top