2233RZ vs T220

N

Nicolas554

Limp Gawd
Joined
Nov 30, 2008
Messages
156
Q6600, EVGA GTX285, P5K-E, Windows XP 32.

I currently own a T220 1680/1050. I ALWAYS use vertical sync ON, hence when i play in the native resolution, my FPS is locked at the refresh rate, 60hz. Now, i don't have a problem with my FPS being locked at 60fps, but what i don't like is that it feels laggy, it feels like theres some mosue lag or something, and when i play in 1280/1024 (which have a refresh rate of 75Hz) this laggy feeling isnt there.

So, because my FPS never drop under 60fps when i play COD 4 and 5 @ 1680/1050, i belive the laggy feeling is due to the refresh rate, right ? Because 1680/1050 can only display 60Hz, right ?

So, im thinking to buy the Samsung 2233RZ, which is a 120Hz monitor, but i want to make sure it can display 1680/1050 with 120Hz. Do you guys think it will make the gameplay feel more fluent, like it does on my current T220 when i use 1280/1024 75Hz ?

PS: Or is there any LCD monitor that display 1680/1050 with at least 75Hz ?

Thx !!!
 
This is a case where you'd greatly benefit from the 120Hz monitor. The mouse lag will be WAY less at 120Hz and even more good news is this 120Hz seems to run fine with vsync off with no or nearly no visible tearing which would almost completely remove mouse lag, just like with my 19" CRT @ 100Hz and disabled vsync.

Now T220 might have slightly better picture quality though but if you can live with slightly worse IQ but way better performance and like you said with a lot more fluidity when you run at 120Hz / 120 FPS, it will be a lot less "blur" when turning around etc in games or simply browse internet pages and scroll up/down you'll notice the text stays way sharper as well.

The only slight bad news if that Samsung 2233RZ seem to have like 10~12ms avg input lag and max around 25ms but this is still better than far majority of LCDs but it also exists 60Hz LCDs with nearly no input lag at all. I don't know what's the case with T220 that you got as I don't have any interest in 60Hz displays myself. :p
 
Thx, i just past the past hour reading many reviews of the 2233RZ and comments from gamers who bought it. General consensus is that its like day and night between the 2233RZ and a non 120Hz monitor.

Well, i went on ncix, and they sold the 2233RZ for 386$C !!! Which is a pretty damn good price in my opinion, i just couldn't resis and i ordered it !! Can't wait to receive it :)
 
RPGWiZaRD said:
The only slight bad news if that Samsung 2233RZ seem to have like 10~12ms avg input lag and max around 25ms...
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Do You have any reliable source for this because I believe this is false and due to a few idiots making a review of something they don't understand. But anyway, 120hz is always better than 60hz, and even more if (and when) theres no need to use vsync. If you can afford it and like online gaming I think it is more than worth it.

e: congrats on your purchase! damn i got to start learning some new tricks because these panels are getting more and more popular :p
 
I've never tried the 2233rz, but I enjoy my VX2265WM a lot. ;) 120hz ftw.
 
Yea i hesitated between the 2233RZ and the VX2265WM, i went with the 2233RZ cause i got it for much cheaper, it was 368$CAD on www.ncix.com, and the best price i found for the VX2265WM is 450$CAD on www.newegg.ca, I never thought i would buy one, everytime i checked i only saw the 2233RZ for like 650$CAD sold with the Nvidia 3D glasses, way too expensive.

Anyway, ill receive it on monday or tuesday, i can't wait :) In the meantine im gaming in 1280/1024 75Hz cause i cant handle the mouse lag in 1680/1050 60Hz, :/ but 1280/1024 looks like crap !
 
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novemberrain said:
Do You have any reliable source for this because I believe this is false and due to a few idiots making a review of something they don't understand.
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The source of the 10ms input lag report seems to be here:

http://www.flatpanelshd.com/flatforums/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=20

dz.Doze said:
The average input lag came out to 9.8ms, with a low of 0ms and a high of 24ms. Most were around 10-12ms. I took ~25 shots. The test was done using cloned output from an Nvidia card set to 1680x1050@100hz. I do have a VGA splitter here that would have guaranteed a synchronized refresh, but the 2233rz doesn't have a VGA input...so the cloned output is as good as you're going to get. In any case, the input lag numbers are respectable.
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Regardless of whether it has 10ms or 0ms input lag, being 120Hz automatically makes the Samsung 2233rz and the Viewsonic VX2265wm the best gaming LCD monitors, period.
 
evilsofa said:
Regardless of whether it has 10ms or 0ms input lag, being 120Hz automatically makes the Samsung 2233rz and the Viewsonic VX2265wm the best gaming LCD monitors, period.
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Absolutely true, and the test is wrong too.
The test was done using cloned output from an Nvidia card set to 1680x1050@100hz.
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That is the problem, any display outside their native resolution/refresh rate will show more or less lag. Test should be done at 120hz, but finding a crt capable of 1680x1050@120hz is difficult, but not impossible.
 
Couldn't you just clone another LCD display known to have 0 lag?...I'm getting my 2233RZ tomorrow and I could help test but I don't have any other 1680x1050 displays around.
 
so how would we go about measuring input lag without comparing monitors? there's got to be another scientific way. might require a specialized input device though :p
 
True, because people who think CRTs have zero input lag are living in a dream world lol. It may be pretty low but it ain't zero.
 
How should I go about calibrating my 2233rz? I'm so excited to get it. The last monitor I actually bought was an ADI Microscan 5GT back in the mid 90s which..well, you'd remember if you had one. sick ass trinitron. So I'm ready for my 2233 to reproduce colors as accurately as possible. I can't afford the Spyder or anything so I'm stuck with software methods.
 
DragonQ said:
True, because people who think CRTs have zero input lag are living in a dream world lol. It may be pretty low but it ain't zero.
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It's true that a CRT's input lag is not zero, but it's measured in nanoseconds rather than milliseconds. Humans can't detect nanosecond differences, period. Our nervous systems are not wired for that. The light from the monitor arrives at your face in about 3ns.
 
Here's how it works in my head..

Rig up some crappy thing on serial port. When I press button on crappy device, sends a keypress signal to the computer. Keypress signal is interpreted and turns a blue square on the monitor red or something like that. At the same time as the key is pressed, it completes a circuit on the crappy thing, lighting a LED. A video camera is used to record the action and....Hm 30fps...Well, back to the drawing board. :D
 
Received my 2233RZ yesterday, played a few hours of COD4, COD WaW, HL2: ep2 and L4D.

120Hz is great so far, didnt install the cd or any drivers, i just selected 120Hz in my Nvidia pannel and in the games menu. Mouse lag is gone, blurry almost gone. When using Vsync off there's still some tearing, especially in COD4 and COD WaW, but there's almost none in L4D and HL2. So i still use Vsync on.

Downside is that now, i need 120 fps or the mouse begin to feel choppy when looking around, mouse lag is gone, but still, when i get under 120fps it's choppy. On my old T220, with 60fps, its wasnt choppy at all, but there was the mouse lag. So the critical point to reach now for me is 120 fps :/ Piss me off a little bit cause in COD WaW, even without any AA, i drop under 120fps many times, my average fps is more like 70-90. Well, ill need a GTX 3xx and a new CPU :/

EDIT: Well, i made a few little test. Decided to run COD WaW with 120Hz, but fps stock to 40 (com_maxfps 40) for like 5min. Of course it was really laggy/choppy. Then, i turned com_maxfps to 60. All of sudden it didn't seem choppy anymore, it felt smooth, almost felt like it was 120fps. Then, turned com_maxfps to 120, and once again, felt much smoother.

So, im not sure if 60fps @120Hz is really more choppy than 60fps @ 60Hz. I think it might just be an impression, since i've been gaming with 60fps @ 60Hz for years, it just seemed like the ulitimate smoothness/non-choppy point to reach. But now that i tryed 120fps @ 120Hz, and that it f****** rock so much, i can't enjoy 60fps anymore :/
 
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Yea 120 FPS/Hz feels silky smooth doesn't it? :D

But what about refresh rates between 60 and 120Hz, can you select those too (or create custom res modes if it doesn't list them?) I mean 100Hz could also be good to run to get requirements slightly lower and personally I can barely see any difference between 100 and 120Hz.
 
When you enable Vsync, and your computer is generating even slightly less than the Hz of the monitor, Vsync reduces your FPS by 50% (for a more detailed description, see the Tweakguide Vsync page).

Ideally, having a 120Hz monitor should mean that you no longer need to use Vsync. Your system is causing tearing in COD4 and COD WaW because it's generating more than 120FPS, so an alternative method might be to jack the settings up higher. Since you have a GTX 285, you might do this by using the nVidia control panel to force settings like high levels of Transparency Multi-Sampling. In a recent HardOCP review, a GTX 285 was able to do COD WaW with 4x TR MSAA at 2560x1600 with a max FPS of 83, so go even higher! You may even be able to mess around with Supersampling.
 
Ok, so question...

I have been wanting a new monitor for years now and have been closely reading reviews on the T220 and 2233rz. From everything I have read the 2233rz is supposed to feel a lot more smooth and natural when gaming. The only bad thing about it that I have read is that it only supports 120hz in its native resolution. This was noted by a reviewer on newegg who had actually contacted Samsung and confirmed those details.

My computer has a EVGA GTX260 graphics card but runs on a motherboard with PCI_Express V1.0 - therefore the most frames I get in any game at 1280x1024 is about 75fps/average. As Nicholas was saying - he noted mouse lag on the 2233rz when he dropped below 120fps - running the 1680x1050 resolution. So, if I get this monitor and run it at the native resolution too, I know I will only average about 60fps since I only get 75fps on my current 1280x1024 resolution. Therefore, in your opinion, is the 2233rz going to still be worth while, or would I be better off just running the T220.

Cost here is not a factor for me because I can pickup the 2233rz today and walk home with it for $282.00 including tax from TechData.com- as I work for a company who is a re-seller of their products. The T220 is still less expensive though - coming in at $229.99 (after rebate) from Newegg. So, excluding cost, which do you think I would get the best quality from - given my setup and specs? Anyone?

Any input or comments are greatly appriciated!
 
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evilsofa said:
Ideally, having a 120Hz monitor should mean that you no longer need to use Vsync. Your system is causing tearing in COD4 and COD WaW because it's generating more than 120FPS, so an alternative method might be to jack the settings up higher.
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That's not the case, tearing happens at all frame rates, even far below the refresh rate.

Capping your FPS at 60 on a 120Hz monitor does mean that if your video card misses a buffer swap, it only has to wait 8ms instead of 16ms to draw a frame. (if you extrapolate that to a full second, your framerate drops to 40FPS instead of the 30FPS a 60Hz monitor would do. That may not sound like much but it means the judder from framerate dives is cut in half.)

If you run at the full 120FPS, Vsync causes your framerate to fall much further when your video card can't keep up, which is why it feels more choppy. If you can live without vsync you should turn it off.
 
sexyjeep said:
My computer has a EVGA GTX260 graphics card but runs on a motherboard with PCI_Express V1.0 - therefore the most frames I get in any game at 1280x1024 is about 75fps/average.
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PCI-Express 1.x does not limit single-GPU cards like the GTX 260. You are CPU limited at that resolution.

If you can get a 2233rz for $282, you should certainly do that.
 
evilsofa said:
PCI-Express 1.x does not limit single-GPU cards like the GTX 260. You are CPU limited at that resolution.

If you can get a 2233rz for $282, you should certainly do that.
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So, for example: if I upgrade from my AMD X2 4400+ 2.2Ghz to a FX-60 2.6Ghz then you're saying that I will get improved frame rates?
 
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