22"+ CRT, open to suggestions :)

Z

Zero1

Limp Gawd
Joined
Apr 26, 2003
Messages
324
Hey guys, it's been a long time since I've been here, hopefully some of the regulars can fill me in since I've been out of the loop for longer than I want to remember.

My 19" Samsung Syncmaster 957p is going bad dudes, correction, it was never great to begin with. The single biggest complaint was that as hard as I try, I just couldn't seem to get an accurate, or nice looking whitepoint. It also lacks in contrast compated to my old 15" Relisys.

Not only that, but it now gives off an occasional shudder, similar to degaussing, but not as violent, I'm guessing something is on it's way out, and rather than wait for it to happen, I would like to do something about it, and buy a new, quality, large ass CRT to replace it.

I primarilly deal with digital video for personal use and distribution, and more often than not I will have to tweak colour settings, you know, contrast, brightness, white point/black point, and individual channel values. I also photoshop for fun, make wallpapers and stuff, nothing absolutely critical.


So I was wondering if anyone knows of a decent manufacturer to try, or a specific model?
As the topic says, I'm looking for something 22"+ (may consider 21", but if I'm upgrading, might as well make it worth while) that would have great contrast settings, but most importantly, well balanced RGB and whitepoints.

Cost isn't a huge concern, but I don't want to be shelling out huge amounts of money for Sony's most uber CRT, a high-very high end monitor will suit me just fine.

A couple of viable options are:
Philips 22ins 202P40 FST 0.24 130kHz 2048x1536 TCO99 @ 300GBP
Hewlett Packard P1230 22ins CRT 1600 X1200 85hz TCO03 @ 450GBP

I need to just check over the differences between the Philips and the HP, but that's a big price difference. Do you think the HP is exceptionally good, or exceptionally overpriced?

Many thanks guys, I appreciate your time :)
 
Zero1 said:
Hey guys, it's been a long time since I've been here, hopefully some of the regulars can fill me in since I've been out of the loop for longer than I want to remember.

My 19" Samsung Syncmaster 957p is going bad dudes, correction, it was never great to begin with. The single biggest complaint was that as hard as I try, I just couldn't seem to get an accurate, or nice looking whitepoint. It also lacks in contrast compated to my old 15" Relisys.

Not only that, but it now gives off an occasional shudder, similar to degaussing, but not as violent, I'm guessing something is on it's way out, and rather than wait for it to happen, I would like to do something about it, and buy a new, quality, large ass CRT to replace it.

I primarilly deal with digital video for personal use and distribution, and more often than not I will have to tweak colour settings, you know, contrast, brightness, white point/black point, and individual channel values. I also photoshop for fun, make wallpapers and stuff, nothing absolutely critical.


So I was wondering if anyone knows of a decent manufacturer to try, or a specific model?
As the topic says, I'm looking for something 22"+ (may consider 21", but if I'm upgrading, might as well make it worth while) that would have great contrast settings, but most importantly, well balanced RGB and whitepoints.

Cost isn't a huge concern, but I don't want to be shelling out huge amounts of money for Sony's most uber CRT, a high-very high end monitor will suit me just fine.

A couple of viable options are:
Philips 22ins 202P40 FST 0.24 130kHz 2048x1536 TCO99 @ 300GBP
Hewlett Packard P1230 22ins CRT 1600 X1200 85hz TCO03 @ 450GBP

I need to just check over the differences between the Philips and the HP, but that's a big price difference. Do you think the HP is exceptionally good, or exceptionally overpriced?

Many thanks guys, I appreciate your time :)
Click to expand...


I always had pretty good luck with Mitsubishi CRTs. I don't do much color critical work, but my friends that do always seemed to like my 22" Mitsubishi before I dumped it and went all LCD. You might want to take a look at the Diamondtron 22" DP2070SB. Looks like Amazon wants about $700 for it delivered:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00006IS9N/102-2370221-8705748?v=glance
 
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i bought a 22in nec fp2141sb-bk a few years ago and i love it (probably get a 2nd one this summer for 22in dual monitor goodness). when i bought mine i spent about a month researching and that monitor came up over and over again, ended up going with it and it was a good choice. as far as i know the large crt market hasn't changed a whole lot since then.

some of the features include:

Maximum Resolution: 2048 x 1536 @ 85 Hz
Will do 1600x1200@100Hz
USB Ports on the side
can be connected to 2 computers at the same time and you can swap between them with a button on the front
there is a color calibration thingy that is available for the monitor that might interest you
http://www.necdisplay.com/products/...t=230&ClassificationFamily=1&Classification=1

fwi : if you have a hard time finding the nec the mitsubishi 2070sb-bk is a identical monitor other than the name on it

anyway thats my sugestion , i'd rather pay a bit more and get something very nice rather than save 50$ and get something not as nice. a good monitor like that should be good for many years before it needs to be replaced/upgraded anyway so over the long run the few extra dollars arn't a big deal.
 
Thanks for your input so far guys, seems to be pointing towards NEC/Mitsubishi

What about the aperture grill? I remember it being mentioned somewhere a while ago, and I think the feedback was negative, IIRC it was something to do with the display of text and an apparent shimmering. Does anyone notice something like this?
 
To me the picture is washed out and text is blurry. Running at 1600x1200 at 85mhz. I did download the Navisoft software and frankly it's nothing special. Maybe I need to mess with the adjustments more, or maybe it's because I running an LCD next to it that makes it look less crisp.

But I bought if for gaming bascially, and for that (and video editing) it's great.

I'll try to post some pics of it tonight.

IBM makes one for around the same prices that has DVI inputs that gets good reviews.

Just my 2 cents.
 
I run 1280X960 which is probably lower than most. I can say at that resolution, text is excellent on the NEC, as is graphics. I've never been able to tolerate 1600 lines of resolution whether it be LCD or CRT.

Aperature grill does give you two faint lines at the top and bottom third of the screen. They pretty much vanish from your perception after a few days. They are not present at all in any of the games I've played.

Edit....just switched over to 1600X1200 and I agree that an LCD will give you an easier text to read. That's not the case with the resolution I normally use (1280X960).
 
Samsung 21" 1100DF CRT monitor about $400 USD, really like mine, upgraded from a 21" Trinitron
 
i gotta sell my NEC 22", Multisync fe2111sb since i got a speeding ticket my parents are trying to punish me :mad:

name a price
 
I'm not beginning to like the sound of this aperature grill.

At least not the deal with the lines on the screen. Can someone give me some info on these lines?

Do they appear in the picture area, or on screen, but away from the image (ie the top and bottom most parts of the screen)?

If they appear in the image itself, do they fade away when the monitor is warmed up, or is it a permanent flaw?

Anyone know of any shadow mask monitors in that sort of size? I'm thinking although I need an accurate monitor for my hobbies and stuff, I don't think it's critical enough to sacrifice the ability to read IRC, emails and general day to day use, scripting etc.


I'm so glad I asked here guys, you may have saved me from making a very expensive mistake.
 
Zero1 said:
Do they appear in the picture area, or on screen, but away from the image (ie the top and bottom most parts of the screen)?

If they appear in the image itself, do they fade away when the monitor is warmed up, or is it a permanent flaw?
Click to expand...
The lines in Trinitron/Diamondtron monitors are damper wires that hold the grille in place and keep it from vibrating. They are visible only on bright backgrounds, especially on white. They are very fine and run horizontally across the screen. Most of the time there is two of them depending on the screen size. My CRT has them and although they do annoy me a bit, it's not a big deal since I only notice them on white backgrounds.
 
They don't bother me at all. I've used an aperature grill at work for years and bought a very similar model for myself. I would also add that my NEC, which I just purchased, have lines even fainter than the older NEC I use at work.

Here's something I worked up in paint simulating the lines...they are actually a bit darker and wider than what I am actually seeing. They are faint light gray lines. Of course it is not possible to simulate your screen brightness and contrast. I should also point out that I did this with a 1280X960 screen resolution and when I scroll the link I can line up those lines perfectly with the actual ones on the screen.

http://server5.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=whitelinesb.JPG
 
Thanks for the paint job Greenwit, I didn't notice them at first, even so they aren't hugely destructive. Can you see an image through the lines, or is it like a dead line of pixels that don't display anything?
 
I'd go for the Lacie Electron 22 Blue IV if I were you. it's an awesome 22" monitor.
 
Since the line is a light gray, it will often blend in with the image but also sometimes cut through it depending on the color of the image.
 
Greenwit said:
They don't bother me at all. I've used an aperature grill at work for years and bought a very similar model for myself. I would also add that my NEC, which I just purchased, have lines even fainter than the older NEC I use at work.

Here's something I worked up in paint simulating the lines...they are actually a bit darker and wider than what I am actually seeing. They are faint light gray lines. Of course it is not possible to simulate your screen brightness and contrast. I should also point out that I did this with a 1280X960 screen resolution and when I scroll the link I can line up those lines perfectly with the actual ones on the screen.

http://server5.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=whitelinesb.JPG
Click to expand...


I recently upgraded to a 22' Viewsonic G 220fb working out great.
As far as the lines in the aperture grill once I saw them on a demo monitor and knew where they were my eyes would be drawn to them to see if they were visible and I didn't want to deal with that
Viewsonic is also a better priced item
 
I was reading an review here: http://graphics.tomshardware.com/display/20020319/crt-04.html

To find that as well as shadow mask and aperture grill, there is a 3rd type called Elliptical Mask. From what I understand it's a mixture of both shadow and aperture, sounds awesome. Especially without those pesky lines (one of the few things stopping me getting a monitor just now). Also expect better text clarity than standard aperture grills.

The question is, (and I hope you people have hardcore google skills what with the rarity of 22| CRT's) what models use this awesome technology?

I've seen a few flat screen models that might have it, but I don't know for sure; to be honest I don't know a whole lot about monitors and terminology.

Price is almost no problem now, I'd kill for an elliptical mask 22" monitor!
 
roberta said:
I recently upgraded to a 22' Viewsonic G 220fb working out great.
As far as the lines in the aperture grill once I saw them on a demo monitor and knew where they were my eyes would be drawn to them to see if they were visible and I didn't want to deal with that
Viewsonic is also a better priced item
Click to expand...

I was once interested in the Viewsonic you have 'till I read this:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...19508-0582533?v=glance&s=electronics&n=541966

I've also experienced screen shrinking and widening with the one Viewsonic I owned.
 
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Greenwit said:
I bought this a couple weeks ago:

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=24-002-039&depa=0

Very pleased with it. Note that these are no longer in production....which will probably be the case with nearly all mucho biggo CRTs in the not too distant future.
Click to expand...

CRT's will be around for a much longer time than you think. There are still inherent limitations to the LCD design that cannot be solved that make them less than optimal for certain applications. The CRT will always exist in professional form for those.
 
Our company purchased two years ago thirty two (32) Viewsonic 220 and 225 monitors. As of July 2004, eighteen (18) have literally gone up in smoke. These monitors are miserable pieces of junk and pose a safety hazard
Click to expand...

OUCH !!!!!!!
 
That's how my Viewsonic went out as well, it lasted maybe 1 1/2 to 2 years then made a popping noise one day with the smell of burnt smoke. After that I bought a Samsung Syncmaster 950p and have owned it for 5 years. Aside from some blurryness and burn in along side the bottom from the windows task bar it's still functioning but soon to be replaced by a 2405FPW Samsung panel :) I've always thought of Viewsonics as being bargin bin monitors.
 
I also have the NEC monitor talked about on the last page. It's awesome. Although I'm somewhat used to it now, I still remember getting it and noticing what an amazing difference it made. I highly recommend it.
 
I echo the sentiments on the 2141. Also, if you've gotten used to it, try raising it up a few inches, like with a monitor stand. It looks bigger if your eye level hits the middle, as opposed to a traditional desk where your eyes are near the top of the screen looking down. Works for me at least :p
 
i just got the NEC 2141 a few months ago. it is seriously awesome, especially for games, which is all I use it for. don't worry about the stabilizer lines, you won't notice them after 5 minutes. i had two LCD's before it and this CRT blows them out of the water (last one was samsung 213t). you won't be disappointed.

jeff
 
Zero1 said:
A couple of viable options are:
Philips 22ins 202P40 FST 0.24 130kHz 2048x1536 TCO99 @ 300GBP
Hewlett Packard P1230 22ins CRT 1600 X1200 85hz TCO03 @ 450GBP

I need to just check over the differences between the Philips and the HP, but that's a big price difference. Do you think the HP is exceptionally good, or exceptionally overpriced?

Many thanks guys, I appreciate your time :)
Click to expand...

Hello, i'v had this HP p1230 now for couple months and i'm happy with it.
Its uses same tube and there for its basicly the same as the best Nec/Mitsu's 22" CRT. Very good black/white levels and contrast. Overall very nice picture for graphics and video work(and gaming too ;D)

I usually run it with 1600x1200@85Hz.

Some negative thing i i can say is that mine was somewhat out of focus on the left side, but i fixed it by adjusting the focus pots inside the monitor. And i had to adjust the converenge and geometry quite a bit for my likeing...but hey, i'm very picky !

Anyways if you are looking for good black/white levels, i dont see how you could go wrong with a good Aperture Grill monitor like this HP/NEC/Mitsu...i have my monitor calibrated for 2.2 gamma and my brighness settings is only at 10% :cool:
 
Just bought an 22" IBM C220P. I love it!

$320 + free shipping :D

its brand new and only reclassified as refurbished because it was sold and returned still sealed by the factory.

$620 retail
 
I'd go with the Mitsubishi (NEC now) 2070sb. It's a replacement for the 2060u which Toms Hardware said was without equal in a 22" monitor shootout. Oddly enough, i just ordered mine this week. One caveat, it is an aperture grill so it'll have the lines.
 
since your looking for graphics and it has to be crt I would go with FE2111SB-BK
suppose to be the top of the line in CRT for graphics and its 21 inch
 
Boomermage said:
I'd go with the Mitsubishi (NEC now) 2070sb. It's a replacement for the 2060u which Toms Hardware said was without equal in a 22" monitor shootout. Oddly enough, i just ordered mine this week. One caveat, it is an aperture grill so it'll have the lines.
Click to expand...


lines aren't bothersome at all - I do notice the horizontal one on top and bottom some times when looking at a bright, light colored surface but other than that the picture quality far outweighs those issues.

only other issue ive had with my aperture grill moniter one time is the apperance of a few vertical lines but those disappeared after light tapping of the monitor on the side.
 
The lines don't bother me either. I just think anyone who's shopping for monitors should be aware before they buy so they can make their own decisions.
 
1) Don't even worry about the lines. You will not notice them. They are barely distracting.
2) 22" is actually 21".
3) I have HP P1110 and NEC FE1250+. NEC's are the best for text quality and image quality. Go for that.

-J.
 
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