213t or 2001fp

[clarkkent333]

Well Im finally going to sell off my 1800fp (if anyone's interested LMK) and am going to upgrade to a larger monitor. I've found the 213t at my local Sam's Club for $1075 and know that D3ll runs specials on the 2001fp every few months for around $800. Considering the price in the equation, which do you guys think is the best LCD?

 

[Synful Serenity]

Price in the equation, I'd say go for the Dell. If you are serious about gaming, then I would say definitely go for the Dell. It's not as easy as that, unfortunately. For one, the 213t is a little bigger, though not by much, and the general consensus is that it is better at color reproduction than the Dell. Then there's this little thing concerning screen-door effect that some people have complained about on the 2001fp, which is hardly ever mentioned for the
213t. Of course, the overwhelming factor in the Dell's favor is its on-screen motion performance, with many claiming not to be able to see any ghosting at all. I've heard a few people say the same thing about the 213t, but its accepted that the Dell is better in that department.

It's complicated by the fact that you can't see a 2001fp in a retail store. If you know a friend who has one, go over there and check it out if possible. You can see the 213t at Circuit City. Those are 2 of the top LCDs out there so either one would not be an unwise buy. But for my money, 20 inches and best pixel response for (at times) $800 gives the Dell the best bang for the buck.

 

[mmarsh]

Excellent post Snyful...

Based on my own research my conclusion is the following:

If your a heavy gamer or on a budget the Dell 2001FP is the better choice. There is also the Viewsonic VP201b which is exactly the same.

If you are into things other than games/multimedia then the T213 is the better choice. The is particularly true if your into graphics as the Samsung does colors a bit better. Also the Samsung is much more expensive

Samsung will be releasing very shortly (the Quarter possibly this month) a new 20" 16ms screen. There are some rumors that this could actually be 12ms screen but I'll believe it when I see it. I might want to wait and see whats the sccop on this.

 

[paladin0]

having owned both i have to say synful is right on the mark. If you use a 2001fp and your eyes do not pick up the screendoor effect grid of black lines then go for it. on sale its $300 to $400 cheaper than the 213t. Games exhibit no ghosting on the 2001fp. I couldnt even see any on the monitorsdirect.com ghosting test.

So the dell has no ghosting and price to its advantage.

The 213t ghosts a little and is more expensive but doesnt have the screen door visible to my eyes, and that was worth $400 to me. I just could not stand staring at the grid on every light color on the screen.

 

[DrumBum]

Samsung will be releasing very shortly (the Quarter possibly this month) a new 20" 16ms screen. There are some rumors that this could actually be 12ms screen but I'll believe it when I see it. I might want to wait and see whats the sccop on this.

any links? I'm very curious but ive heard very little...

 

[jacuzz1]

I use the 213T and IMHO its a fabulous monitor. I dont experience any noticiable ghosting, at least not with the current games. I run her on dvi at a naitive resolution of 1600x 1200.

If your going to purchase one of these then naitive resolution is a must along with a top line display adaptor with DVI out. You see you will need a top of the line card to run todays games at that res. If you drop down in res then motion blurr will become somewhat of an issue. Thats my personal experience. I was running a Sony G500 Aperature Grill before the 213T and while superior for gaming, the CRT was light years behind regarding sharpness of text and subsequent eye strain. I do game often but the 213T does such a good job that the trade off was well worth it and I have no regrets.

I hope this was helpfull

 

[jacuzz1]

By the way , the dual inputs are nice. I hook up two towers and can switch with the touch of a button

 

[mmarsh]

DrumBum

I don't have any links yet. I keep scanning the airways hoping to get news...

I know its coming however as that was the reply I was given when I asked Samsung the question about 3 months ago. Also Andandtech and Tom's have both (briefly) reported that new models would be available this month from BENQ, Samsung and NEOVO. Of course that doesn't exclude the possibilities of delays. As for the 12ms thats just rumors I keep hearing, who knows if its true. On the other hand, I do know that 8ms panals will be available in Taiwan in Jan 2005. So who knows?

Incidently Samsung also told me they would be releasing a 20ms 23" screen in addition to the 20" 16ms one. The should be released together or just after one another...

 

[clarkkent333]

I use the 213T and IMHO its a fabulous monitor. I dont experience any noticiable ghosting, at least not with the current games. I run her on dvi at a naitive resolution of 1600x 1200.

If your going to purchase one of these then naitive resolution is a must along with a top line display adaptor with DVI out. You see you will need a top of the line card to run todays games at that res. If you drop down in res then motion blurr will become somewhat of an issue. Thats my personal experience. I was running a Sony G500 Aperature Grill before the 213T and while superior for gaming, the CRT was light years behind regarding sharpness of text and subsequent eye strain. I do game often but the 213T does such a good job that the trade off was well worth it and I have no regrets.

I hope this was helpfull

This is interesting because the more I read up on the 213t the more complaints I see about the ghosting. I can't imagine that everyone is using an improper resolution although I could see that being a problem for some. It just seems that there are many more complaints about the 213 than the 2001.

 

[rush24t3]

Amazingly, there are many people who run their LCD screens at some other res than the native one; just take a look at Best Buy or CompUSA's display models...95% of them are running at the non-native res, so customers assume that's the way they're supposed to be run. Naturally, everything looks like crap, and when they do move to the correct res, they complain everything is "too small."

As for ghosting, the inherent response time has a lot to do with it, but I honestly believe that using a DVI connection reduces it considerably, if not altogether. Every person I know who complain about ghosting all run their LCDs on a VGA connection. The last two LCDs I've had both ran on DVI and both featured 25ms response times and I never noticed ghosting. I think it does also have something to do with different tolerances people have, too.

The 213T is massive, sharp, very bright, and is aesthetically pleasing, and using the DVI, it's superb. The only thing is that I'm going to have to buy a newer video card that plays games better at 1600x1200.

 

[jacuzz1]

This is interesting because the more I read up on the 213t the more complaints I see about the ghosting. I can't imagine that everyone is using an improper resolution although I could see that being a problem for some. It just seems that there are many more complaints about the 213 than the 2001.

Thats odd since I have rarely if ever seen a complaints about this monitor. In fact I am hard pressed to remember seeing one. I have however seen multiple complaits about the 2001FP and a "screen door effect"

 

[paladin0]

Running 1600x1200 on a dvi connection with a radeon 9800 pro there is noticeable ghosting/ blurring in games with the 213t to my eyes. With the 2001fp there was not any noticeable ghosting. Do the monitorsdirect.com ghost trailing test there is a streak following the white boxes on the 213t.

That being said it doesn’t bother me at all I rarely see it while playing a game, although certain maps will show it a lot more that others. I’ve never noticed ghosting in the traditional sense where there is a ghosting image behind a character model running. Instead its mostly in the form of a wall or floor texture blurring as you run by.

Ghosting is there but it does not detract from game play in my opinion. I have not noticed it while watching video or dvds. As much as I play games I do spend more time sitting in windows web browsing or whatever. So ghosting was lower on my priority list than image quality.

The quality of the 213t is much greater than the 2001fp, I had 2 2001fp’s and both had over 5 dead pixels. My first and only 213t has 0 dead pixels. So if you get a 2001fp be prepared for a couple send backs if you want a perfect dead pixel free monitor.

 

[jacuzz1]

Perhaps it is an indiviual monitor issue. Anyway I did not drop 1200 becuase of some line that moves on some website that sells 12 ms monitors at a premium says it ghosts.

I go by what it looks like in games on 9800xt and I looks just fine. I suspect it will look even better if ATI would ever caugh up the x800xtPE

PC: Disregarde my rant , it is realy repressed anger over the lack of x800xtpe's

 

[dabomb]

Amazingly, there are many people who run their LCD screens at some other res than the native one; just take a look at Best Buy or CompUSA's display models...95% of them are running at the non-native res, so customers assume that's the way they're supposed to be run. Naturally, everything looks like crap, and when they do move to the correct res, they complain everything is "too small."

Thats like at my job, we purchased 120 19" dell 1901fp's, not one of the users machines runs at native 1280x1024, everybody runs 1024x768 with a few scattered 800x600. Its too bad they are nice monitors but look like crap at those resolutions.

 

[Gmok Bonecrusha]

I own a 213T....Yes there is ghosting in some games.Most noticable is in Enemy Territory as far as FPS games that I own.And I DO notice it alot in that gamme.

UT04 has some ghosting...But its not nearly anything like ET.Id even go as far to say I never notice it.


WC3..No ghosting at all.

Command and Conquer...No ghosting at all.

NWN...No ghosting at all.

COH...There is ghosting.

CoD...Ghosting.But it is minimal.Unnoticable after awhile.

FFXI...Minimal Ghosting.

Max Payne..Minimal Ghosting.

What I have noticed is that games that have lots of browns in them tend to ghost alot....I know it sounds corny...But thats what I have noticed.

Vividly colorful games like WC3 and NWN...I never notice it.

So essentially there is little to no ghosting depending on what games you play.Most will all just become un noticable in a few minutes..with the exception of Enemy Territory...I ALWAYS notice it...But again...Thats me.

The IQ is honestly the best of any LCD I have used...Nothing even comes close.I own a 1715 and the 19 incher NEC...forget model number.

My friend has a 2001 FP and the exact same setup as far as rigs go.I will say this..The screen door effect on that 2001fp is more of a pain to look at than minimal ghosting...I got the 213T after seeing the 2001FP...For a comparison...I kept the 213T.It was close choice though.

Also I'm surprised no one has said this....The IQ in games overall definately goes to the 213T..It just looks...better.Colors are more crisp.The games looks more sharp.

Same for movies.Movies just look better on my 213T than my buds 2001FP.

When we have WC3 battles over my house....You REALLY can tell the difference in the 213T and 2001FP...Everyone wants to play on my machine.

Surfing?No contest.213T hands down.Its THAT sharp.


In all honesty...If you play FPS alot...Id get the 2001FP.If you play a mix of games...The 213T seems to be the better choice....As long as your budget is 1200 dollars.


What REALLY pisses me off..I could have gotten the HP 23incher if I waited a few months.

 

[paladin0]

What I have noticed is that games that have lots of browns in them tend to ghost a lot....I know it sounds corny...But that’s what I have noticed.

Actually that is exactly what I have noticed too. When textures with varying shades of brown are on the screen that is pretty much the only time i notice any blurring.

Gmok Bonecrusha, ive had the same experience as you have with all those games.

I do not regret getting the 213t over the 23" hp. The text would be as small as a 2001fp and there is an added hassle to making many games work with the wide screen format, also its 500 more.

jacuzzi1, about the monitors direct test I was just stating what i noticed. Like a 3dmark test it doesnt really matter but its something many people look at.

Over all im vary happy with my 213t i just wanted to state my experience with ghosting for the sake of the thread.

 

[Vexorg]

Not only are the chain stores generally running their LCDs at non-native resolutions, but they're also running them on a VGA connection split something like 20 ways too, degrading the image quality even further.

As for the Samsung 23" (232T), I've already seen them available at the Fry's neat here, at a cost of roughly $2,000. Haven't been able to get a good look at it, as every time I've been there it's displayed nothing but the "resolution not supported" message.

As for me, I've been quite happy with my 2001FP. I don't notice any ghosting or screendoor, and I like having the extra S-Video and composite inputs for my consoles.

 

[clarkkent333]

Thanks a lot guys for the insightful responses (Keep em comin btw). Im thinking I might go down to the local Sams and pick one up for an in home trial. As much as I'd like to get the 23" HP I don't have that much dough to spend.

 

[paladin0]

Thanks a lot guys for the insightful responses (Keep em comin btw). Im thinking I might go down to the local Sams and pick one up for an in home trial. As much as I'd like to get the 23" HP I don't have that much dough to spend.

That is a very good idea. An in home trial will really let you know if the monitor is worth your money or not. As was already said the display models are run in the worst possible conditions, 20 way analog splitter and at 1024x768 usually. You would think after selling LCDs for years stores would fix this mistake.

 

[Synful Serenity]

What you all have to ask yourselves is how do these screens fit YOU? Some of you will notice ghosting on the 2001FP, some will not. Some of you who do not notice the ghosting on the 2001FP will notice it on the 213t, and some of you will still not see any. Some will see screen door effect, and some will not. You can only discern these facts by seeing these screens in person, though with the 2001FP being a mail-order item it can be difficult unless you know a friend who already has one. But that's really the only way to know for sure how each LCD will suit you. If you find that you do not notice the ghosting, then choose on image quality (which most would favor the 213t) or price (which would favor the 2001fp). If you DO notice ghosting in one of the screens, you have to ask yourself how important this is to you. Some people will not be terribly bothered by it, while others will positively not be able to stand it for one second. This will mean some people will choose the 213t even though they notice a little (or even a lot of) ghosting, and some people will pass up it up for the same reason. Everyone in the market for an LCD fits into a category; finding out which one you fall into is the hard part.

 

[jacuzz1]

Actually that is exactly what I have noticed too. When textures with varying shades of brown are on the screen that is pretty much the only time i notice any blurring.

Gmok Bonecrusha, ive had the same experience as you have with all those games.

I do not regret getting the 213t over the 23" hp. The text would be as small as a 2001fp and there is an added hassle to making many games work with the wide screen format, also its 500 more.

jacuzzi1, about the monitors direct test I was just stating what i noticed. Like a 3dmark test it doesnt really matter but its something many people look at.

Over all im vary happy with my 213t i just wanted to state my experience with ghosting for the sake of the thread.

I hear yah , I was just venting some repressed anger. Sorry dude.

I feel better now that a 6800 gt will be at my door today.!!!!!

 

[paladin0]

I hear yah , I was just venting some repressed anger. Sorry dude.

I feel better now that a 6800 gt will be at my door today.!!!!!

no problem at all.

6800gt huh, you finally get to play far cry with everything on high at 1600x1200 with out slowdown that will be sweet! All this 1600x1200 gaming really shows the age of my 9800 pro. I just wish the new cards were more widly aviable and a little cheaper. My goal is to hold out for one of the big hitters (HL2 and/or Doom3) before my next video upgrade.

 

[clarkkent333]

I hear yah , I was just venting some repressed anger. Sorry dude.

I feel better now that a 6800 gt will be at my door today.!!!!!

I sure hope its not one of the BFG 6800GT's because they are only going 1280.

 

[Synful Serenity]

The slowdown with brown textures should be expected, also with grays. It's the midtone shift problem. Colors that are "in the middle", when switching to a color near it, can't just change right to it. This is due to the way LCDs work. The crystal twists to change the amount of light it allows through, but once it twists, it must twist fully and then begin to untwist completely, before it can twist again. They cannot just dynamically twist and untwist at will to fit the colors needed. This is what causes colors near the middle of the cycle to be several times slower, in some cases.