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2013 High-End GPU War

So, if all statistics are correct;

Adreno 330 = Tegra 4 = PowerVR SGX544MP3

Exynos 5 Octa = 2x Tegra 4 because of same GPU strength yet double the cores with same architecture

Exynos 5 Octa = 1.5x Snapdragon 800 since Krait 400 brings about 50% CPU increase from Tegra 4, but still same GPU power

Of course there are variations of clock speeds, and the Exynos 5 Octa has double the amount of cores.

So when clock speeds remain constant,

Exynos 5 Octa > Snapdragon 800 > Tegra 4

So the processing power rankings are as follows:

1. Exynos 5 OCTA core
2. Apple A7
3. Snapdragon 800 (MSM8974)
4. Tegra 4
5. Snapdragon 600 (APQ8064T)
 
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ItaliaFerrari said:
Exynos 5 Octa = 2x Tegra 4 because of same GPU strength yet double the cores with same architecture
Click to expand...

Nope. Exynos 5 "Octa" (lies, damned lies, and trademarks...) is basically a 4+4, where Tegra is 4+1. It may (or may not) give the Exynos an advantage in power management, but when it comes down to raw CPU power, they're both quad A15s.
 
Yea the quad and quad its that big.little experiment arm is trying to push. I'll wait to see official core count down the road.
 
I don't know about everyone else but I couldn't give two shits about any more "advances" in GPU on the phone technology.

Want to earn my money? Start putting all that energy and research into battery technology. I'm not a "phone gamer" but I find myself uninterested in ANY gaming on my phone because I know it will run the battery down pretty quick if it's graphics intensive. Combine that with LTE sucking down good amounts of juice and the conclusion I arrive as is "what's the point"

Interfaces are already smooth as they ever need to be - I don't need my phone outputting 1080p at 120herts (yes I know its not spelled right the ' ' key is broken on my keyboard) fucking idiots at work using my comptuer.

At the end of the day it's a phone -- not an xbox360. I will treat it as such.
 
The current qualcomm lte modems aren't that bad on power. I'm with you on gpu performance though. I'm more interested in better performance out of the cpu.

The new gpu technology is pretty cool. I think it will be interesting to see if they can get the power side of the gpu down.
 
It is funny. I just read your giant post about GPU from the First Page of this thread. So how did this happend that Samsung managed to fit Octa core Exynos after two month of you prediction and not in "Feature prominently in 2014"?
 
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Considering how slow the HD4000 is compared to other PC GPU's even in the mobile sector, I'm not that surprised the HD4000 is only 3x faster.

Or did I read your comment in the complete opposite manner than you intended?
 
ChronoReverse said:
Considering how slow the HD4000 is compared to other PC GPU's even in the mobile sector, I'm not that surprised the HD4000 is only 3x faster.

Or did I read your comment in the complete opposite manner than you intended?
Click to expand...
It's not "that" slow. When I tested it just for the fun, it run Mass Effect 3 quite well. Better than consoles. Intel does need to ramp up the GPU if they don't want to get annihilated soon. AMD already annihilates them when it comes to GPUs (though they have hard time reducing the power usage).
 
Well, if Intel is capable of putting something like HD4000 into the Bay Trail like theorized in the original post, we got a killer in our hands. But also theorized in the original post, I don't believe that will happen due to power consumption.
 
CHANG3D said:
Well, if Intel is capable of putting something like HD4000 into the Bay Trail like theorized in the original post, we got a killer in our hands. But also theorized in the original post, I don't believe that will happen due to power consumption.
Click to expand...

It will be sub ulv power which is pretty slow. They should reach out to sgx for some technology patents to get them competitive on that power level.
 
Trimlock said:
It will be sub ulv power which is pretty slow. They should reach out to sgx for some technology patents to get them competitive on that power level.
Click to expand...
The only thing we know is that Intel will be going with their own graphics on Bay Trail. But on Clover Trail+, Intel is basically using an upgraded GPU found on the iPhone 4/4S.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6790/...ualcore-cpu-and-graphics-unveiled-at-mwc-2013

Logic would lead me to believe that the Bay Trail Graphics would have to be at least 1.5* better than PowerVR SGX 544MP2. I hope a full 2 times minimum. But that'll take us to Tegra 4 levels.

P.S. I haven't seen anyone talk about how Qualcomm saying that their Adreno 330 in the Snapdragon 800 will beat the Tegra 4. Qualcomm boasted that back in February. I just don't see it from the early data mathematics we got.
 
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How fast is Tegra4's Geforce compared to the A6X's PowerVR SGX 554MP4?

The Adreno 320 in the GS4 is getting 40FPS vs the iPad4's 50FPS in GLbenchmark 2.5 Egypt HD 1080p offscreen. Isn't the Adreno 330 supposed to double that? 60% faster than the A6X is pretty good.

Plus this benchmark is PowerVR friendly.
 
ChronoReverse said:
How fast is Tegra4's Geforce compared to the A6X's PowerVR SGX 554MP4?

The Adreno 320 in the GS4 is getting 40FPS vs the iPad4's 50FPS in GLbenchmark 2.5 Egypt HD 1080p offscreen. Isn't the Adreno 330 supposed to double that? 60% faster than the A6X is pretty good.

Plus this benchmark is PowerVR friendly.
Click to expand...
The last numbers I heard on the Adreno 330 is that it's 50% better than 320. So 1.5 times is not double.

As for the Tegra 4, it barely beats the newest iPad and iPhone 5. But newer Apple products are also coming out, probably taking back the lead...

Sounds familiar...
 
Hmm, if the Tegra4 only barely beats the iPad4, then Adreno 330 will still beat that.

Adreno 320 is at 80% of the iPad4 right now, so 120% isn't too bad for the GPU that never aimed to be the top GPU anyway. And that might be enough to beat the Tegra4 anyway.


It'll be interesting to see the next gen PowerVR GPU with the next Apple device though.
 
Trimlock said:
The current qualcomm lte modems aren't that bad on power. I'm with you on gpu performance though. I'm more interested in better performance out of the cpu.

The new gpu technology is pretty cool. I think it will be interesting to see if they can get the power side of the gpu down.
Click to expand...

I think I'd trade both for some improved NAND performance.
 
T_K said:
I think I'd trade both for some improved NAND performance.
Click to expand...

What are you doing that you want better NAND performance? I can only think of a few times where I saw the NAND choke before the cpu.
 
If you are talking about nand as in eMMC, then, yes, it is a bottleneck. It has a 52 Mbps limit. Class 10 microSD only goes up to 50 Mbps. And those are the theoretical highs that you will probably never reach, especially with the microSD. Intel is rumored to be going sata3 which gives us a theoretical maximum of 6 Gps. Way faster... We know this is true for tablets at least. But the rumor is relevant for its mobile platform. I don't know how they will fit an mSATA ssd in there, but if they do, holy shit. (it will come in 2015, so we got two years to wait)
 
Yeah, Nvidia promising the moon again, when have they never delivered right?

I'm not even going to give them the benefit of the doubt and say "I'll believe it when there's silicon" (because supposedly this is running on actual chips) but instead it'll be "I'll believe it when I can own an actual phone with such graphics".
 
ChronoReverse said:
Yeah, Nvidia promising the moon again, when have they never delivered right?

I'm not even going to give them the benefit of the doubt and say "I'll believe it when there's silicon" (because supposedly this is running on actual chips) but instead it'll be "I'll believe it when I can own an actual phone with such graphics".
Click to expand...
This its mobile kepler, which is coming in 2014.

This most likely won't be on a phone, they stated in the slides and during the video demo this is tablet graphics.
 
I was responding to "Will come in smartphone and tablets."

In any case, a next year product at the very least and only tablet? Yeah, everyone else would have caught up too then. A technology years ahead of the competition is only useful if it's out now or close to now.
 
Trimlock said:
This its mobile kepler, which is coming in 2014.

This most likely won't be on a phone, they stated in the slides and during the video demo this is tablet graphics.
Click to expand...
Actually, they said it will come on phones... it's the Tegra 5 (logan)...

BTW, Tegra 4 benchmarks better than the Exynos 5 Octa in the GS4.

AnTuTu 36305 vs 28018

http://www.engadget.com/2013/02/24/nvidia-tegra-4-benchmarked/
http://www.sammobile.com/2013/04/10...exynos-5-octa-kills-qualcomms-snapdragon-600/
 
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My main problem is this with Apple... what a waste of horsepower on a shitty little 4" screen. Give me a iPhone the size of my Galaxy S3 and I will gladly go back to Apple. Not until Apple goes past a 4.3" screen will I bother.
 
What the hell happened to the OMAP 5? Last I heard it was supposed to be TI's last SoC for mobile platforms and they were still planning on launching it in phones at some point this year.
 
T4rd said:
What the hell happened to the OMAP 5? Last I heard it was supposed to be TI's last SoC for mobile platforms and they were still planning on launching it in phones at some point this year.
Click to expand...

It is still supposed to come out for embedded devices, but most phone vendors plan to avoid it. Initially, it was going to be a 2x2 setup, like a dual-core Big.Little (2xA15 + 2xM4). At first, original roadmaps made it seem like their 2x2 setup would come out about 6 months after Exynos dual, but with better battery life due to the 2xM4s for idle usage. However, Samsung got Exynos dual out the door faster than expected, and skipped the quad for octa much faster than anticipated. OMAP 5 will likely be unsupported in the long run, and is grossly underpowered compared to existing products. At the time of availability, it would be suitable for mid-range devices only.
 
Has there been any games that use these GPUs to their potential? The only game that looks like its even close to me is Infinity Blade 2. But I dont keep up with smartphone games anymore. But before that every game I ever saw on Android looked like 16bit games.
 
///AMG said:
Has there been any games that use these GPUs to their potential? The only game that looks like its even close to me is Infinity Blade 2. But I dont keep up with smartphone games anymore. But before that every game I ever saw on Android looked like 16bit games.
Click to expand...

To answer your question: Not really, no. The basic games are still selling well and to be honest, high end games on phones are generally too hard to make and don't sell well enough to justify the long development time.

But GPU's in phones are starting to be used in new roles. Were they only used for games before? No, but it wasn't very evident. But now we may see it as a much more diverse tool, much like how we use GPU's on desktops today to do MUCH more then gaming. Also one of the benefits to increasing GPU output is pushing the 1080p screens and 1080p content. Pretty soon we will (I hoped they actually could already do this) be able to use our mobile devices to act as a stand alone Home Theater system, especially with the advances in recievers being able to take in content wirelessly.
 
ChronoReverse said:
http://gfxbench.com/compare.jsp?D1=NVidia+Shield&D2=Samsung+GT-I9505+Galaxy+S4&cols=2

Oh hey, Nvidia over-promised again. Better than the Adreno 320 as expected but not by a large margin, also as expected.
Click to expand...
Umm... most have no result yet, and for those with results, it won. But then it already is expected to against Adreno 320. Let's wait for it.

I've also added Exynos Galaxy S4 and iPhone 5 to the watch list.
http://gfxbench.com/compare.jsp?D1=...g+GT-I9500+Galaxy+S4&D4=Apple+iPhone+5&cols=4
 
Which is what I said? Of course it won against the Adreno 320, it's half a year later. But the wins aren't exactly the huge differences over-promised.

Will we even get Shield hardware in store significantly before the next-gen hardware from the competitors come out this year?


Also, all the onscreen results (with the larger margins) are useless since it's 720p vs 1080p
 
ChronoReverse said:
Which is what I said? Of course it won against the Adreno 320, it's half a year later. But the wins aren't exactly the huge differences over-promised.

Will we even get Shield hardware in store significantly before the next-gen hardware from the competitors come out this year?


Also, all the onscreen results (with the larger margins) are useless since it's 720p vs 1080p
Click to expand...
Well, that's pretty obvious. But we are missing the very important triangle test results. The current result is for basically watching movies. Adreno 320 totally destroys the iPhone 5 on it. But for games, there is pretty much no competition for the iPhone 5. So we need those test results from the Shield. It is, after all, a game console. So your declaration of NVidia over promising things is a bit too early.

I too believe anything below iPhone 5's test results on triangle would be a failure. But a very bright future for NVidia as Kepler in Tegra 5 is ahead.

If Tegra 4's triangle test winded up matching iPhone 5's triangle results, then we have basically got a winner. Although I'm also pretty sure that the iPhone 5S or whatever will beat it once that comes out.

P.S. The biggest failure is Samsung's PowerVR implementation on the Exynos Octa... now that's pathetic. I'd rather take the Snapdragon 600 over it any day.
 
The triangle test isn't a very useful test. We're long past the days where triangle rate is the most important factor for the GPU.

If you didn't notice, the triangle rate of the iPhone5 is awesome but in the real game engine tests (T-Rex and Egypt), the Adreno 320 dominates. The idea the Adreno 320 is "only good for movies" demonstrates an incredible lack of understanding here (GPUs haven't been lacking for movies for long time even for the mobile arena, not to mentioned if we're talking about video decoding, that's done by dedicated decoders).
 
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