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2-stage cascade build

G

gclg2000

Gawd
Joined
Jun 27, 2004
Messages
634
Been working on this a little while on another board....but figure i'd post it up here so maybe some of you could check it out or comment on it.
1st stage is a LG rotary 5150btu with big ole overkill condensor....3/8" suction line and 80" of i believe 0.030" cap tube. 2nd stage is a matasuma (spll??) ~ 5000btu. It too will be 3/8 suction hose and about 80-90 inches of 0.030" also. Oil cooler and seperator for 2nd stage is all 1/4" copper tube. I had made a HX but i didn't like how it turned out, in part to weak joints and the size. The new HX will be just a hair shorter and consist of 1/4" tube for the evap of the 1st stage inside 1/2" tube for the condensor of the 2nd stage, but with step down joints to make the HX stronger and more realiable. ANyways, thats about it for the major details. Gases i'm thinking about are 404 + 5% propane or so on 1st stage and 1150 on 2nd stage.


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You about ready for me to braze your vapor head? :) good looking work there man i see your solder skill's are improving!Ill have pics of the system im building up asap.
 
The key is Clean,Heat (lightly),flux,heat,let some solder flow over it (make sure it sticks) then heat and get to soldering....If your useing a low Heat torch then u cant really make it look super good but i am lucky enuff to have a pro brazing set on hand and can get hot enuff to burn steel or cold enuff to braze .010 brass!
 
what kind of tip do you use. My dad's shop is what i'm doing this in, he has several types of tips for the tanks
 
I use a rose bud to heat the tube whne i tin it then i move to a 00 brazing tip with the O^2 set at 5 and the acetylene set to 35, ill take a pic of my torch and gear tomorrow for ya,also ill get some more good flux and solder to make some demo tin pics and full joint solder's
 
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My boy had 2 sticks of 45% silver solder so i made a few braze's,this is just how they looked after brazing..no clean up on any of them,there is also a pic of my brazing outfit,i can* if i wanted to braze the joints in pure copper but it requires to much heat and on small wall pipe i dont want to risk burning through it.

And i got a new supply of compressors today :) i have to go pick them up tomorrow and test them, diff BTU's on each unit,some small *1200btu* and some up to 6k BTU.Let me know what ya want and ill set it aside.If any one else wants one just ask me and ill start sorting them out.
 
Even if I had the tools I think my inexperience with vapor would make it a scary process but I love to see more knowledgable guys like you two do it. :)
 
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Here is where i am thus far..dryer and cap tube (the real cap tube) will be here in no time..then its off to testing..damn i hate jacking my boys thread..Hmm this is a dual phase change build off :) there that makes it all better.
 
Cool man, You know i want a couple for another cascade. Imma build one for someone else here i think pretty soon and build a couple small single stages i think too.
I did get the final plans for my evap block finished today. I decied imma use some 3/16" copper tubing to run down the middle, and then just sweat in the capillary tubing to the ID of the 3/16" copper tube. That way, if i wanna change the Cap tube sizing, it's much easier than making a bigger hole or worse, ruining the evap head block. That block should be finished hopefully by this weekend. Then i can connect it to the unit, and wire it up. Then hopefully i'll have some first test runs with it. I'm prob gonna use R404 on 1st stage and R404 on 2nd Stage just to get the rig going. Maybe that can pull -80 or so under load. Im trying to get some R1150 for this project and future projects as well.

**Also need to add a T-line 3/8" Shrader valve to the suction side of the first stage, will do the same to the suction line of the 2nd stage also.

Also, i made another trip to my supply store and got your dryer w/ shrader. I'll ship it out on Monday along with the 4 shrader valves and silver solder rods.

If any of you would be interested in me building a cascade or single stage unit, please PM me and we can talk. The cost can be WAY cheaper than buying a $800 pre-made Vapo Unit or etc...

Below are pics of were i'm at on the 2-stage cascade.

The new HX i made. about 13ft long. 1/4 inside 1/2"
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As you can see, its very small and compact. Very tightly coiled. I did uncoil it though and was going to put pip insulation around it. But it stretched it out to big. When i pulled it off, it of course wouldn't contract back down.
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Easy, quality joints to work with here. I just "wallered" out the 1/2" to 1/4" sweat reducers and they easily slide right over the 1/4" for a nice snug fit, just added some silver to it and bingo, nice quality joint and HX
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Overhead View #1
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Overhead View #2
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I see some of your problem right there..your torch is to hot..u see my torch..thats what yours should look like :) as for the compressors..u can have first round draft pick,pay shipping and u can have as many as u want..cept for 1..im gona build my vac pump out of it,,but its a tiny 800BTU unit so who cares?

EDIT.. Id like to add 90" of the cap tube your useing to the order along with a normal dryer with no schrader valve.
 
Ok man. I'll get the captube on Monday and try to ship it out monday or tuesday. I already have an extra drier and that will be it. The cap tube i'm using *i think* is 0.031". I need to check and see what it is. But i can get it in 120" sections for cheap.

And about the flame, its to hot??? It gets the metal nice and hot pretty quick and easy, i then just back it off and use the very tail of the flame to keep it hot enough for it to flow. Once i touch the silver to the joint, it flows some...i look at it, and usually just flow it once more to be sure.
 
gclg2000 said:
Ok man. I'll get the captube on Monday and try to ship it out monday or tuesday. I already have an extra drier and that will be it. The cap tube i'm using *i think* is 0.031". I need to check and see what it is. But i can get it in 120" sections for cheap.

And about the flame, its to hot??? It gets the metal nice and hot pretty quick and easy, i then just back it off and use the very tail of the flame to keep it hot enough for it to flow. Once i touch the silver to the joint, it flows some...i look at it, and usually just flow it once more to be sure.
Click to expand...


Never heat the area with the flux dirrectly..it cookes the flux off,then the solder doesent flow as well.As for the cap tube if u would grab me the 120" stuff that will be fine,just give me a total :) ill bbl i got to run to home depot to get some more copper tube.
 
zer0, my evap should be done pretty soon. And i'll swing some pics of it up when i get them.

As for Bitch (My),

I'm sending you some 0.028 ID Cape tube, i think it comes in 120" strands.

Cya.
 
gclg2000 said:
zer0, my evap should be done pretty soon. And i'll swing some pics of it up when i get them.

As for Bitch (My),

I'm sending you some 0.028 ID Cape tube, i think it comes in 120" strands.

Cya.
Click to expand...


ROFL.....Thats about the right size i need,just tell me when and how mch to send and its yours :)
 
Ok guys. Got the design for the block i'm going to use (same type design will be in the untis i custom build too). The block should be done in a couple days, and i'll post pics when its done.

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This is alos a "rough" layout of about how big in "relative" size i will be able to build cascades's or single stages.
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this is way over my head, but it looks interesting and i would like to see a picture of the current setup if you dont mind.
 
these are pics from the 1st page of this post. This is where the build is at currently. Just need to add the evap for 2nd stage, wire it up and gas it. Then its up and going.

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i'm such a dumbass, i didnt even no there were multiple pages :rolleyes: . Anyways it looks pretty crazy...
 
Ran out of r-290 so that was only a LIGHT charge, ill have pic's of the fully gased temp's tomorrow :D

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very nice work guys...im gonna have to jump in with you guys in a little bit and start making my own....ill need a torch and shit tho...this cant be cheap getting started lol
 
Looks nice gcl, keep up the good work. What temps do you get with your 2 stage setups? What gasses will you be using for this system?

Nice work Breaker, looks good. What was the temp of the evap when that pic was taken?

Custom is the only way to go. My system cost less than a LS, and offers better load temps than a LS idles...of course a 10K BTU compressor doesn't hurt :D
 
I'm actually re-doing my cascade a little bit. My supplier hooked me up w/ a free condensor and fan motor that is alot smaller than what is shown. I'm going to use 2 LG rotary compressors and PEV to meter the freon instead on the 2nd stage.
 
What temps were you getting before you changed the system? What kinda temps have your previous systems gotten? Do you have any pics of complete systems?

Thanks
 
BitchBreaker said:
And i got a new supply of compressors today :) i have to go pick them up tomorrow and test them, diff BTU's on each unit,some small *1200btu* and some up to 6k BTU.Let me know what ya want and ill set it aside.If any one else wants one just ask me and ill start sorting them out.
Click to expand...

I could use something small, in the 1200 btu range. How much do you want for one?
 
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