2.5 hard drive vs ssd

Discussion in 'SSDs & Data Storage' started by Kre8sioN, Sep 30, 2015.

  1. Kre8sioN

    Kre8sioN n00b

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    I just bought a VelociRaptor 2.5 for my new desktop build. not sure if I made a mistake. I read a lot about its performance and some pro's and cons about using a 2.5.

    Current build:

    Case: Aerocool Strike X-Air
    Mobo: Asus Maximus VII Formula
    CPU: Intel Core i7-4790K Processor - Quad Core #BX80646I74790K
    Hard Drive: WD VelociRaptor 250 GB #WD2500BHTZ
    Memory: CORSAIR Vengeance Pro Series #CMY16GX3M2A2400C11R
    Graphics: TBD
    PSU: TBD

    I'm I hurting this build by not forking out the extra bucks for a 15,000 rpm or SS drive?

    I mean I play rainbow six series, scare factor games, watch all tv shows from computer, radio from computer, idk should I just do it and post my thoughts????? I have no problem ripping it out and going there if I'm not satisfied. I'm re-newbed, I'm 43, been modding for 20yrs but my last build kept me going for quite some time and a little confused about the new (out of the loop) :(

    Raptor Specs:

    WD VelociRaptor 250 GB Workstation Hard Drive, High-Performance for Power Users - 24/7 Reliability - 2.5" - Sata 6 Gb/s, 10,000 RPM, 64MB Cache, 15mm form factor, 5yr Warranty - WD2500BHTZ

    Item#: W10-7360 | Model#: WD2500BHTZ

    Soon to be old pc:

    CPU: core 2 duo exteme 2.93
    Mobo: NVidia 680i sli
    case: Antec P160
    Memory: corsair CM2X1024 x 4
    HD: WD500 replace my bad raptor drive last year
     
  2. jwcalla

    jwcalla 2[H]4U

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    If you can't send it back, you'll be fine with that.

    If you can send it back then yeah, an SSD is better in every way. Maybe a little bit more expensive? Those 240 GB capacity SSDs are on sale all the time.
     
  3. iamwhoiamtoday

    iamwhoiamtoday Limp Gawd

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    I would highly recommend looking into a 256GB / 512GB SSD, depending on your budget. We've been using THESE at work, and absolutely loving them.

    Your VelociRaptor is a very solid rotating drive, but.... it pales in comparison with a SSD. I can't recommend swapping to an SSD enough.

    Afterwards, your VelociRaptor can be used for either bulk storage or games that won't fit on an SSD?
     
  4. Kre8sioN

    Kre8sioN n00b

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    I could send it back or sit on it, or use it for a secondary. But SSD will be the Bees Knees?

    Again this is my first new build in a while. I usually buy from TD, and when I looked at SSD I saw unfamiliar territory... I like my operating system drive small because that's all I put on it. there are no small drives anymore....

    Drive 1: operating system
    Drive 2: Games and Programs
    Drive 3: Media and crap

    So.... drive 1 SSD, drive 2 SSD or the raptor I bought, drive 3 doesn't matter ;)

    ?????
     
  5. drescherjm

    drescherjm [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Here is my recommendation for a ssd: http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1041883669#post1041883669


    Most 3.5" drives are being manufactured with 1TB platters these days. You can put a single head and use 1 side of the platter for a 512 GB drive.
     
  6. chenw

    chenw 2[H]4U

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    Your first drive should definitely be an SSD (128GB should do the trick well enough, smaller SSD usually lack in write speed rather than Read speed, and the former is still faster in general than spinning platter drives).

    Your second drive depends. SSD is a luxury here. Some games benefit from faster loading times, some do not. Less loading = more playing.

    Your third drive definitely should be HDD, there is enough read speed in a HDD to cover any sized media you are likely to find. SSD here would be a waste.

    my 2c
     
  7. _CiPHER_

    _CiPHER_ [H]Lite

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    If you opt for the Crucial MX200 250GB, you can use it as a SLC SSD if you use no more than 125GB of space, thanks to the DWA feature. This is certainly an interesting option, albeit a little bit more expensive comparing the amount of usable space to the price tag. But still very cheap for an SLC SSD. Plus, it got real protections which the Samsungs do not have.
     
  8. Kre8sioN

    Kre8sioN n00b

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    Thank you all. didn't loose too much sleep over it. Going Solid :)
     
  9. Ryankirsch13

    Ryankirsch13 Limp Gawd

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    I always use an SSD for my OS. I have a 256gb ssd with all my normal applications and windows 7 loaded on it. I have a 2tb storage hard drive for games and such, and a 320gb WD Black for when I figure out what to do with it :p I will never build a PC any other way, the SSDs really are incredible upgrades and you will never go back to a disc drive, except for mass storage.
     
  10. SomeGuy133

    SomeGuy133 2[H]4U

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    The questions you should ask are basic.
    1. Is data security important? As in wiping your data regularly.
    Yes....HDD, which means SSD is never an option if this is a yes.
    No...SSD
    2. If data security is not important then does money allow for an SSD of the size you need?
    Yes...SSD of size and speed you need
    No....HDD

    These two questions will pretty much answer your questions on SSD vs HDD every single time. The only benefits of a HDD is easier data recovery and data security excluding cost. The reason everyone uses HDDs in NASs is because of data security and cost. Even if SSDs are cheap I will never use them in my NAS unless they get the write endurance needed for regular wipes.
     
  11. _CiPHER_

    _CiPHER_ [H]Lite

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    @SomeGuy133: please explain why using SSDs implies one does not care about data security. Please explain what you understand 'Data Security' to be. Thanks!
     
  12. SomeGuy133

    SomeGuy133 2[H]4U

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    You can not easily wipe free space of an SSD and even if you can wipe free space of an SSD you will wear out the drive. HDD dont have endurance like an SSD and you can regularly wipe free space without caring plus i am not even sure if you can wipe free space on an SSD successfully because of TRIM and other hardware level SSD features. The only way i know if by wiping the whole drive because you can not control at the OS level what you want to wipe because of TRIM and other features. Granted there maybe programs i dont know about but you get the point.

    If you need to crypto wipe data an SSD. it is simply a no go.
     
  13. atom

    atom Gawd

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    I would recommend:

    Drive 1: OS and Programs - SSD
    Drive 2: Games - Medium HDD 7200rpm
    Drive 3: Media - HUGE HDD

    I say you want programs on the first drive because it will make a difference when you are messing around and want to whip open a browser then Photoshop, etc. Games are (mostly)wasted on an SSD because they are designed to work well with the speed of HDD's. You don't randomly open and close them like you do a lot of apps.
     
  14. FnordMan

    FnordMan [H]ard|Gawd

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    Oh gads... not that bit of misinformation again. Games can and do make quite good advantage of an SSD. There was a very noticeable difference between a WD Black drive and even a low end cheapie SSD. (i've since upgraded to a BX100)
     
  15. _CiPHER_

    _CiPHER_ [H]Lite

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    So you mean people that care about privacy are vulnerable with SSDs because they have hidden recovery modes accessible to those who invest a lot of time and have the right equipment (NSA). Alright, if that is what 'data security' means to you - fair enough!

    But why? If you care so much about privacy and have concerns about recovery, then cryptography seems to me the perfect tool for the job? You can do full drive encryption by using the hardware in the SSD itself, which some SSDs have implemented properly, or you can use software tools provided by the host, which with AES-NI acceleration today has zero performance penalty.

    This way you do need to overwrite deleted files a zillion times before assuming they would not be recoverable any longer. Encryption seems like the way to go. Or by using your own kind of words:

    If one doesn't encrypt his storage, one does not care for data security.
     
  16. SomeGuy133

    SomeGuy133 2[H]4U

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    For certain computers and tasks encrypted drives are more work then needed and performance hit in certain systems can be large. Also encrypted file containers are handy. FYI truecrypt is broken and dead and you need to use veracrypt.

    Even on encrypted drives you may still want to wipe free space. Also you may like to wipe free space for many reasons and not just for the NSA. Any type of malicious program can see and take "deleted" data because it is still just sitting on there. Take recuva and run a deep scan and see all your info sitting on your drive and that's just what a simple brain dead program can collect. There are magnitudes more info then that but that program can't read it because it only looks for salvageable or mostly salvageable data.
     
  17. atom

    atom Gawd

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    I'm not denying loading from the drive is loading from the drive and that is certainly faster on an SSD. Waiting 3 vs 5 seconds isn't going to bother most people and in a lot of games you will be waiting 0 seconds because they have a system of gradually loading things as you progress. I hope you aren't claiming your SSD increases your FPS or anything like that.
     
  18. Aesma

    Aesma [H]ard|Gawd

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    Get a 512GB or 1TB SSD, put most or all programs (games) on it. Then get a regular 7200rpm HDD (3 or 4TB is the best size for the price at the moment) for the rest. And of course have a backup solution in place (such as an external 4TB).

    SomeGuy133 you're not making much sense. If you're using robust full disk encryption (FDE) then there is no need to wipe free space, because there is no free space. It's called FDE for a reason. If you mean that you want extra protection for some things, then encrypt them another time in a container that you can then delete if needed.

    Now about endurance, here I can follow you, I've never tested it myself, and have never seen anyone testing it, but when I started using SSDs in 2009 I was concerned about that so didn't do FDE on my SSD. I only encrypt a few things and am satisfied with that. With FDE you're defeating several of the wear levelling strategies of SSDs (compression, trim, etc.) so with early SSDs it would probably have killed them quickly, now with more advanced algorithms it might be better, but I'm waiting for some proof.
     
  19. SomeGuy133

    SomeGuy133 2[H]4U

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    When your operating system is running EVERYTHING is decrypted. Only time encryption works is when the drive is offline so while in use it is 100% vulnerable to physical theft, digital theft via infection/hacking and so one.

    FDE should be 100% supported via trim because when the computer is on and the OS is running everything in a sense is completely dectypted. I would be surprised if TRIM wasn't supported but correct me if I am wrong. If it isn't all the more reason to use HDDs because I do like 140 maybe now 150GB of writes per day on my OS drive.
     
  20. evilsofa

    evilsofa [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Does the OP care that SomeGuy133 requires extreme security for 150GB of writes per day, or does the OP just want to play games faster? If the latter, get a SSD.
     
  21. SomeGuy133

    SomeGuy133 2[H]4U

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    i simple stated earlier above that 2 simple questions pretty much answer the question of HDD vs SSD.

    Someone asked several further questions and i simple obliged with answers.

    BTW i dont require extreme security. My security is not where it should be and nor is anyone's. Do you have any documents on your PC with medical records, taxes, SS #. Or have you ever had a file with that info?

    Let us assume you do not keep those files on your computer regularly but import the file from a flash drive or external or download them at some point from IRS, bank, doctor, or something. Or you have some sort of data that has Personal Identity information on it. Once that is on your PC it is on it and vulnerable. If you delete it, t still is on your computer unless you securely delete it. Securely deleting a single file on an SSD is difficult and damaging to an SSD. Hence why I said if security is important, which it should be then an SSD is never an option for those cases. I currently dont follow that but working to make a PC that is built for records, medical records, taxes, and other personal information so that it can be properly controlled and protected. Even if the drive is FDE it is still vulnerable every second it is on. There is no arguing that or debating that. It just simply is that way.

    BTW do you not know of Flame? That malware is a prime example of why FDE is useless when your PC is online. It specifically targeted PDFs, docs, contacts, emails, CAD files, and other sensitive information. It then turned Bluetooth into a beacon to download contacts and upload all that info to a remote NSA server. This isn't the days of dial up where you would even notice a single word file leaving your PC. I have a 20-25Mbps upload. Flame could jack almost all my documents in minutes and I would never be able to notice or stop it.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flame_(malware)

    qudos of our government and fuck the 4th amendment. -_- Every citizen is a target in this case and they don't care if they find stuff illegal. Fruits of the poisonous tree is dead.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/05/us-dea-sod-idUSBRE97409R20130805

    Please don't be naive or foolish. It is bad.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2015
  22. _CiPHER_

    _CiPHER_ [H]Lite

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    SomeGuy133, you certainly make interesting points and i think many are valid. But i thought this thread was about SSD performance benefits, not about world politics. I would be happy to discuss the issues you raised in another setting, but quite frankly i do not think it is much helpful to voice them in this thread.
     
  23. SomeGuy133

    SomeGuy133 2[H]4U

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    it has nothing to do with politics. I simple provided 2 questions that should always be asked when buying a storage solution.

    Is data security important? No then does budget allow for the size of SSD you need? Yes so get an SSD. That is all that needs to be asked. It is 2 simple question on whether you need an SSD vs HDD. I provided the only 2 questions anyone really needs to ask. Security and budget. Others asked what I meant by security so I informed them on why SSD is a terrible idea for security. It has nothing to do with talking politics it is a simple matter of reviewing the only 2 decision factors on choosing between SSD vs HDD. You seem to be the one stuck on arguing politics. I simply provided facts and data on the issue on whether one wants to choose an HDD vs SSD.

    Performance is an irrelevant question at this state because if money allows always go SSD. That is the point. There is no reason to buy a HDD if the budget allows for the SSD of size you need. If you only have 256GB of data and a budget of 300 dollars get a 500GB SSD. If you need 20TB of space and have 1000 dollars you obviously are getting an SSD/HDD solution.

    If one is not broke a 500GB SSD should be the go to. 256GB maybe slower then a 500GB and their endurance and endurance performance is far lower then a 500GB drive. Plus 500GB are not even expensive and provided room to grow and play. If one can't afford a 500GB drive there are more serious issues at hand. You can get 1TB SSDs for sub 300 on sale and they are MLC. Recommending an over priced 128GB drive is silly. They are slow and over priced. They are only use able in thin clients or PCs that are meant to be used in a manner where storage space is irrelevant and cost is crucial, which again falls in line with question 2 that i provided above.

    Again that is why I provided the 2 questions above. It is the only questions that need to be asked at this point in technology. This is not the era of Gen 1 SSDs. Where they were slow and over priced.

    The question of 10k/15k RPM hard drive was only relevant in the time of Gen 1 SSDs. That's the whole point of my questions. You always go SSD if security is not important and budget allows.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2015
  24. evilsofa

    evilsofa [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Does your opinion that no SSD can be securely deleted extend to TCG Opal 2.0 SSDs with full encryption who have had their data encryption keys deleted?
     
  25. MrGuvernment

    MrGuvernment [H]ard as it Gets

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    simple

    there is no VS when it comes to rust spindles vs SSD, unless you need ALOT of space.

    as for SomeGuy,. if you are SO concerned about security, you should be physically destroying drives in that case....not worrying about erasing them.
     
  26. SomeGuy133

    SomeGuy133 2[H]4U

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    I swear none of you can read or bother reading posts. I am talking about securely deleting select files or free space. See the image below. I question if this program can actually securely delete these files because of TRIM and if it can it would be excessively damaging considering the low amount of writes that SSDs support.

    Again look at my statement in previous post.

    FDE only protects a drive while it is off. I am typing write now and let us say I have Veracrypt running AES-Twofish-Serpent cascading encryption on top of my Sandisk's Extreme Pro FDE (i think it has that feature). Both of those are completely useless while I am typing. All my data is "currently" unencrypted as far as the OS is concerned. Any program or entruder or whatever can access any "deleted" or undeleted file while I am logged into my computer.

    So lets say I act even smarter and do not keep anything important actively on my PC but keep it in an encrypted container or on a flash drive. If I transfer that data onto my PC to use it and delete it from windows when I am done the file is still on my PC! The OS never deletes data completely. It marks it as free space. Hence why you can use programs like recuva to restore the files. Now if I want to delete that sensitive file I can wipe free space completely or select an independent file to ensure that it is gone but with an SSD that will GREATLY reduce its life and is questionable whether or not it will actually be deleted because of over provisioned space and TRIM may interfere with such an attempt. I don't know if there is a single program out that has the ability to do something at that level because of the hardware level features of the SSD.

    See picture below for what I am talking about. You can see the options to recover or securely delete but i question you can successfully delete a single file plus I am sure there are countless other docs that exist but are not view able from recuva because they are hidden in over provisioned sections of the drive. They are still vulnerable though to intruders while the PC is on and you have no ability to securely erase any type of file that you deem valuable and sensitive.

    So let us say you scan a document with your document scanner and it is tax records that have your SS # on it (or create a PDF version of turbo tax). You then transfer it to your flash drive after the document was scanned to your documents folder or whatever have you. You copy paste and delete or cut and paste the file to your encrypted drive so that the OS marks the file as deleted. The file is STILL ON your PC and vulnerable to theft. With an SSD there is no way or good way to delete that hidden file because it is an SSD. That is why you need to consider if security is relevant for the computer you are looking at. That is the number one question because with SSDs you can not reasonable delete free space with any real sense of security.

    That is why deleting free space is important because FDE and containers do not protect you when your PC is on and why HDDs are best when you have personal identifying information on your PC. That is another reason why you should consider a low end PC dedicated to records, taxes, and the like. A 200 dollar crap PC for that stuff is perfect.

    Does this now make sense why SSDs are terrible if you have PID on your PC? If you don't have security concerns and your budget allows get an SSD always!

    EDIT: to elaborate even further. If you have ever downloaded anything and delete it because you don't want people to access it. It still is on your PC! The only way to remove it is to clear free space and you can not do that as far as i know on an SSD. Have you download a file and deleted it and it was a file you dont want someone to access? I assume you have! The only way to get ride of it is to secure delete and thats not really possible on an SSD. When I used a HDD for OS drive I ran weekly free space wipes to protect my info that was deleted. On an SSD that is not possible.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/22o8zdch9cxl8su/Recuva PDF file example.png?dl=0
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2015
  27. SomeGuy133

    SomeGuy133 2[H]4U

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    BTW I didn't notice this but NEVER use hardware encryptions! Or at least combine it with software like veracrypt! The probability that NSA has a backdoor to SSDs encryption is highly likely given history.

    NSA directly influenced DES and made it shit. Google it.
    NSA got Intel to weaken RDRand
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RdRand
    NSA got NIST to create a vulnerability in its number gen!!! Every company in the world was vulnerable to the government because of the NSA deliberately tampering with the National Institute of Standards and Technology standard!
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_EC_DRBG
    Here is bullrun
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullrun_(decryption_program)

    Basically never use a proprietary encryption standard or at least never use that as sole solution.
     
  28. zaniix

    zaniix Gawd

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    Wow, the tin foil hats have really come out in this thread.

    To the OP, the Velociraptor 2.5 is LOUD and gets hot, yes it works and if you like it use it

    You are better off with an SSD
     
  29. SomeGuy133

    SomeGuy133 2[H]4U

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    How? I posted specific examples of the issues with SSDs and the vulnerability of your personal information that you should take seriously. I also posted factual real world examples. Please tell me how using real world issues and events with security and personal information that should be kept safely is tin foil hatness or whatever. Don't be willfully ignorant. I know your better then that.

    So your telling me it is being paranoid by knowing known security issues that directly affect my personal identity and my financial records? How ridiculous. That is like saying you should allow cops to search your car or house without probable cause or a warrant -_- Because you have nothing to hid hahahahahahahahahahahahahah

    or better yet its like saying you dont need to use a password with numbers and special characters -_-

    Or it is like saying WEP and WPA/WPA2 are perfectly good standards to use. Not like you cant just download a program to crack a net work in seconds to hours. /sarc You should never allow any wireless connection to have access to your network. They should only be able to access internet and nothing else.
    -and yes if you didn't know you can simply google for a program to brute force your way into any wireless network. All standards are broken. Trying to find the WPA clients to brute force/packet sniff your way in is a bit harder to find but they exist. Your now informed if you didn't know this. Also having WPS enables makes it even easier to break.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2015
  30. Nenu

    Nenu [H]ardened

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    Op, you surely will appreciate using an SSD for your OS and some games really benefit too.

    I bought a 256GB Samsung 840 Pro and use 60GB for the OS and programs, the rest is used for games that benefit from an SSD.
    It can halve to 1/3 the loading time.
    Loading Saves in Witcher 3 is one of the best examples, it takes 5 to 8 seconds on the SSD. Tons longer from hard drive, such that its quite annoying.

    All other games are left on a hard drive, Steam allows multiple install locations.
    I wish I had a larger SSD because some games are huge now.
    GTA V is over 60GB and Witcher 3 is over 30GB.

    As an aside, I keep a spare copy of my OS installed on a hard drive for troubleshooting.
    This takes many times longer to finish booting. I havent timed it, but at a guess at least 4 times longer.
    (Win 7-64)
    I can make a coffee in the time it takes to finish booting from the hard drive.
     
  31. drescherjm

    drescherjm [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I think it is a small vulnerability (only the blocks that were deleted or changed but too small to be TRIMed are vulnerable) but also one that could be totally eliminated by enabling the hardware encryption on the SSD. I do admit that not all BIOSs support that so that may not be a solution to all. Also the wipe free space is not that damaging to an SSD if you do it infrequently. A handful of times a year will not hurt a modern 512 GB SSD (from Intel, Micron, Samsung ...) which can take a few petabytes of writes before wearing out. Another option if you can't do a full drive encryption you can put all of your sensitive files in a software encrypted container that is a few GB and wipe then free space on that when ever you want. With it being a few GB you can do this several times a day with no harm at all to the SSD.
     
  32. SomeGuy133

    SomeGuy133 2[H]4U

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    the petabytes is only select drives. I hear most peoples drives die in the 100s of TBs or less, which is sad. Also Intel drives never reach petebytes because they brink themselves after x data. IIRC samsung does that too.

    Also you can not wipe free space because of TRIM and OP. The OS and SSD firmware will not let you over write a specific sector or access OP sections so even if CCleaner secure wipes free space it will not be complete because TRIM will tell the program to write else where in order to wear level plus it will completely ignore OP sections of the drive. That can be 7-25% of the entire drive not wiped. As far as I know no free space wiper works on an SSD because of OP and TRIM. I have said this like 6 times now. If you find a program that can override TRIM and delete OP sections I am all ears.

    Again...seriously like the 5th time i have said this drive encryption does NOTHING!!!!! If your logged in!!! Seriously how many times do I have to repeat this. If I has my SSD FDE right now and my computer was infected it could access EVERYTHING no matter if it is encrypted. It could simple scan free space in background and copy and upload anything in free space that has not been over written. Encryption does not stop that and only way to protect from that is wiping free space.

    I will repeat myself again. Have you ever downloaded a document or scanned one? Has it ever touched your SSD? Yes? Then if you delete it, it still is on your PC unless you wipe free space or somehow write enough information to cause that section to get over written.

    Any trojan, malware, or person on your PC can simple scan free space and restore file because FDE does not do anything while your logged in. Seriously i have said this so many times yet you keep missing it. encryption does not do anything when you are logged in so anything that is in free space is fair game for someone to steal.

    I assume I am not the only person in the world that downloads bank records, medical records, records, PIDs, taxes, and other sensitive information on the computer. I also can't possible be the only person that cares to prevent people from taking my personal docs.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2015
  33. _CiPHER_

    _CiPHER_ [H]Lite

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    Even the compromised RDRand in Ivy Bridge and later CPUs, can still be used. Just make sure your solution uses multiple random sources, to combine the RDRand with software sources like interrupts and such. On BSD, Yarrow is designed to do exactly that. This way you can still utilise hardware-accelerated RNGs even if they are compromised, because they will be used in conjunction with software generators and together provide a high quality random source.

    Well, if you care so much about privacy as you advocate, i would start by not using any American commercial software product. As you know, the Patriot Act means all commercial American technology is suspicious. Best is to use open source like Linux or BSD. Even though some committers are based in the USA, they would not legally fall under the Patriot Act as i understand. And even so, the majority of contributors will offset the vulnerability of American anti-privacy policies.

    So start by using Linux and BSD and use the crypo-technology provided by those operating systems. That would be a good start. But hey before you know it, you live a paranoid life just to hide the few mp3's you have been storing. Is all that worth it?

    And to repeat: is this thread the correct place to discuss privacy/security? I thought it was about HDD versus SSD performance. :D
     
  34. SomeGuy133

    SomeGuy133 2[H]4U

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    Again I provided a 2 step question and you guys wanted me to explain question one and why SSDs are a no go for question one so i obliged.

    BTW it doesn't matter if you live in US or not. Google RICO laws and banking laws. Also look up dotcom. but thatsa side not. Check your PMs
     
  35. MrGuvernment

    MrGuvernment [H]ard as it Gets

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    Sorry , I re-read everything and see what you are saying now with TRIM SomeGuy133.

    If one were to disable TRIM would this be the one way to clean an SSD while connecting it to another computer, not as a primary drive?
     
    SomeGuy133 likes this.
  36. SomeGuy133

    SomeGuy133 2[H]4U

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    BTW thanks for rereading!!! Nice owning up. Respect :D

    Not a clue :/ You also have OP to deal with. Even opening the drive to "100%" capacity there is still 7-15% hidden depending on the brand and base OP.

    There is one program that i recall was specifically designed to defrag SSDs and such like to move all data to front in order to shrink better or something. That program might have some fancy way to secure delete. I forget what the programs name was.
     
  37. Aesma

    Aesma [H]ard|Gawd

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    Secure erase is the way to delete an SSD, but I agree you can never know if everything is really gone.

    However he's totally wrong about FDE. Not everything is decrypted when the OS is running, everything on the drive stays encrypted all the time. So there is no need to worry about erasing anything, it's safe, unless your keys are compromised. If you fear the keys are compromised, then you need to decrypt and encrypt again, that will use another key, and erase everything else in the process (remember, even free space is encrypted). I wouldn't trust hardware encryption, the US government has too much power to not have compromised that.

    In RAM, things are decrypted, and there is no avoiding that. If you're using a computer, your data will be clear in RAM at some point. Depending on what you're doing, the easiest security will be to unplug the network cable (and disable wifi).

    My company is building the "French Pentagon" and installing a fiber network, no copper cable anywhere.
     
  38. SomeGuy133

    SomeGuy133 2[H]4U

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    ah it was perfect disk. They might have a way to secure delete. I know they have a comprehensive program but not sure if it can secure delete an SSD.

    http://www.raxco.com/home/products/perfectdisk-pro

    Wrong. I stated:
    Any hacker or malicious program can access my data and download it because as far as the OS is concerned all data is unlocked. It will decrypt anything on the fly even for hackers using trojan or malicious code. FDE is not intelligent.

    Correct me if i am wrong but a hacker using a trojan or mal code can access the data if my PC is signed onto because the OS will treat that request as a normal user request and decrypt anything they ask to access. There go FDE is useless while signed onto PC.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2015
  39. Netwerkz101

    Netwerkz101 Gawd

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    You are the one who asked SomeGuy to explain his comment .....right????
    He made an interesting comment (I appreciated it) and maybe it would have been better
    to invite to to discuss in a new thread ...but....alas..we are here.

    ^^^ OP posted that at 10-01-2015, 08:28 AM ....aka ...thread end time. :D

    Nothing beyond that time matters (including my own post now)
    as it relates to the OP and his/her decision as it seems a done deal.

    Anyhow.... at the 250GB point .... I would have gone with an SSD...only thinking bang-for-buck.
    I'd not considered the security aspect (not something I do for home purchases - but perhaps I should) ;)
     
  40. Meeho

    Meeho [H]ardness Supreme

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    What's wrong with TC 7.1a?

    I know TKIP is compromised and maybe AES with short keys, but I haven't heard of WPA2-AES with 63 random characters being vulnerable. Do you have some links on that?


    No, everything is freely accessible when the computer/OS is running.