1T Necessary?

M

Miller

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 30, 2004
Messages
207
I was on Overclocking.net, I think, reading a guide to AMD overclocking, as I've been stuck at 225HTT*10 on my X2 3800+ and A8N-SLI Premium for a week or so. It's alright, a 10% overclock is nice, but I'm wondering if it's just my luck of the draw or if I can go further.

In the Memory section of their guide, they suggest that the memory always be at 1T. I looked: mine's at 2T. I haven't changed it (I don't know very much about memory, and I don't really want to screw anything up at this point). My question is, is 1T necessary/advised for a better overclock, and what will it do to/for my system? I have Corsair ValueSelect RAM, two 512 sticks at 2.5-3-3-8, which are both clocked slightly above normal (they register as PC3500 in Everest, since they're at 1:1 with the HTT at 220, whatever that makes the RAM...), and so far I've had no troubles at all.

Should I try it? What's the difference between 1T and 2T? Otherwise, are there any other ideas for my overclock? I believe my system's in my sig...if not, I'll put it there. [Edit] Put my system in my sig. Read down a couple posts.

Thanks in advance. :)
 
if anything, 1T will reduce your chances for a higher overclock. it will give you better memory performance however.

your system is not in your sig. what are your voltages at?
 
What he said...1T as opposed to 2T is going to hinder your overclock because it stresses the memory that much more, long story short, increasing performance at the same clocks when compared to using 2T.

However, the performance difference between 1T and 2T is so negligable and miniscule that unless someone's running memory benchmarks you're probably not going to notice the difference.

A first thing to try would be dropping the ram to 2T to see if you can scale any higher at that point...and if not, try dropping the memory down to a lower clock with a dram ratio to see if the stick(s) themselves are maxing out already.
 
it is at 2T.. :D if anything switch to 1T and see if you can run at cas 2. keep the ram at around 200mhz. my ram at home is running at 214mhz.

the ram speed isnt too important on an a64 rig anyhow. like cornelious said, drop the mem divider and raise your fsb and see what sort of overall clockspeed you end up with. that is where u will get most of your performance.
 
Jason711 said:
the ram speed isnt too important on an a64 rig anyhow. like cornelious said, drop the mem divider and raise your fsb and see what sort of overall clockspeed you end up with. that is where u will get most of your performance.
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I wouldn't go as far as to say it isn't too important, but it isn't nearly AS important is it has been in the past...esPECIALLY for Intel systems, who crave higher and higher bus and memory speeds.

Also, because the A64 by design has it's memory controller on the CPU die...lowering the memory clock with a dram ratio eases the job on the on-die controller, and will often times aid in your CPU's overclock.
 
Ah, sorry, put my system in my sig but I guess it didn't update my existing posts. At any rate, it's there now.

My CPU's at 1.44v (I don't think it NEEDS to be there, but my temps were good enough to allow me to set it there for the sake of stability and not worry about heat), and my RAM is at 2.7, I believe...I may have set it back to Auto. It is on 2T at the moment - I didn't set it to 1T since I wanted to know if it would affect my current overclock.

I had another post in the AMD CPU forums, but few people replied. I did the basic "max HTT" test, putting Prime95 on Small FFT Torture Test with Memory at 200mhz (the A8N-SLI Premium lists the memory speeds as their effective speeds), multi at 5 and HT Link at 2x, and then increased using clockgen by 2-3mhz at a time until I hit the reboot point, which no matter what I try seems to be 225. I don't know why this is...any ideas?

Thanks.
 
Miller said:
I had another post in the AMD CPU forums, but few people replied. I did the basic "max HTT" test, putting Prime95 on Small FFT Torture Test with Memory at 200mhz (the A8N-SLI Premium lists the memory speeds as their effective speeds), multi at 5 and HT Link at 2x, and then increased using clockgen by 2-3mhz at a time until I hit the reboot point, which no matter what I try seems to be 225. I don't know why this is...any ideas?

Thanks.
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Hmm, you're running increasing the HTT with clockgen WHILE the cpu is under full load running Prime? I know that adjusting the clock speed of the processor in windows doesn't hurt it, but I wouldn't necessarily put full faith in trying to do it while it's under heavy stress.

Can you list off everything you can remember that you did actually do when you say "no matter what I try"?
 
Well the test was done under the advisement of the "Guide to AMD Overclocking" in the AMD Processor forums, so sorry if that's not recommended. :E

I'm sure I didn't try SOMETHING. :p But what I did try:

-Messed around with RAM timings (2.5-3-3-6, 2.5-3-3-8, 2.5-3-4-8, etc.; Edit: Suppose I should try 3-4-4-8? I think it's PROBABLY my imagination, but it sometimes feels like lowering RAM speed or timings causes mouse lag in Windows...although, like I said, I think I'm just being paranoid :p)
-Put a divider (333mhz)
-Increased CPU voltage (tried from stock at 1.34 to 1.475, not sure if it's worth going higher; you'd think it would be able to go higher CPU speed-wise somewhere in there, but then, what do I know :D)
-Changed RAM voltage from Auto to 2.7v
-Tried lowering HT Link from 4x to 3x
-Tried lowering multiplier and raising FSB to get the same clock (266*9, I think it was)

That's all I can remember off the top of my head. Boots up fine at what I'm using right now. I don't really have much faith in clockgen either, considering there wasn't one specifically for my board, but rather for "All nForce 4 boards". That could be the problem...but who knows. Maybe my CPU just refuses to go any higher. Eh.
 
Miller said:
I don't really have much faith in clockgen either, considering there wasn't one specifically for my board, but rather for "All nForce 4 boards". That could be the problem...but who knows. Maybe my CPU just refuses to go any higher. Eh.
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Could be that the CPU just doesn't wanna do more...but as long as the version of clockgen is designed for the same chipset revisions etc...it should work fine...I've used it, no issues...clockgen is gold and a LOT of higher-ups in the OC'ing world have put a lot of faith in clockgen.
 
Is it worth lowering my RAM timings to see if that makes a difference (3-4-4-8 or something), or do you think I just got the bad luck of the draw?

I don't know how much CPU-Z can tell you about my processor, but in comparing mine with another X2 3800+ that hit 2.8, the stepping, revision and so on were the same. Probably doesn't make much of a difference, but I thought it was worth mentioning, at any rate.
 
Miller said:
Is it worth lowering my RAM timings to see if that makes a difference (3-4-4-8 or something), or do you think I just got the bad luck of the draw?

I don't know how much CPU-Z can tell you about my processor, but in comparing mine with another X2 3800+ that hit 2.8, the stepping, revision and so on were the same. Probably doesn't make much of a difference, but I thought it was worth mentioning, at any rate.
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CPU-Z doesn't show a lot of specific stepping info at all...just general stuff that isn't going to be different from any other X2 3800+ out there.

It could still be worth lowering timings, but it's not a sure thing.
 
i had a single stick of corsair value, and the best it would do without errors in memtest is 220mhz. That was 2.5-3-3-7 (1T). So with 2 sticks, your OC would probably be lower or the same. Run them 2.5-3-3-7 (1T) @ 215mhz and test with memtest 86+. Use the 1:1 divider, and put your FSB at 215, and multi at 10x. Push 2.8v thru your memory.
Test test and test. Increasing your FSB until you start to get errors. Run memtest #5 for a quick stability test to get an idea of where your memory starts to fail.
After all is said and done, you want to find your MAX memory speed, your MAX CPU speed, and dont worry about your HTT speed, just make sure it is either above or below 1000mhz. In this case 215 x 5 = 1060mhz, or 215 x 4 = 860. Both would probably work.

Example:

FSB = 215
cpu multi = x10
divider = 1:1 (200)
vdimm = 2.8v

Increase your FSB until you get errors in memtest #5.
 
Good enough advice to get him going...but I prefer to use SuperPi 32m or Prime95 (one or two instances depending on if it's a single or dual core cpu) with larger FTT's to test for memory stability...WAY to often have I passed a few hours of Memtest and not been able to do a single test in windows with the same settings.
 
no, if the mem only goes to 214 without errors just divide the memory and clock speeds so you cna get a higher overclock (i.e. divide 4:3 cpu/mem or whatever you need) that way you can get the max out of the core and mem.

efey`
 
Well, an update, I dropped the timings to 3-4-4-8 and upped the voltage to 2.75 (for the RAM) as well as put a 333mhz divider, and I'm running stable (so far) at 2.4ghz @ 1.45v (32 idle / 38 load). RAM with the divider's at almost exactly 200mhz, and everything seems fine so far...I just hope it stays that way. :) Thanks for all the help. I'll be purchasing some new RAM at some point (or, since my birthday is coming up, maybe ask for it then :p), so 3-4-4-8 won't stay like that for long. I'll probably be switching to some good-quality OCZ or G.Skill RAM or something.
 
Miller said:
Well, an update, I dropped the timings to 3-4-4-8 and upped the voltage to 2.75 (for the RAM) as well as put a 333mhz divider, and I'm running stable (so far) at 2.4ghz @ 1.45v (32 idle / 38 load). RAM with the divider's at almost exactly 200mhz, and everything seems fine so far...I just hope it stays that way. :) Thanks for all the help. I'll be purchasing some new RAM at some point (or, since my birthday is coming up, maybe ask for it then :p), so 3-4-4-8 won't stay like that for long. I'll probably be switching to some good-quality OCZ or G.Skill RAM or something.
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Nice to hear things are going a LITTLE better...always nice to hear good news.

GSkill has got to be my favorite memory manufacturer of all time, it's just a sad shame that I can't get any of their products here in Canada...as far as I know anyways. Whether someone is looking for TCCD type clocks/timings/voltages or tighter running timings with slightly lower clocks, GSkill has got you covered...go with what suits you best in the end...they've got you covered.

EDIT: NICE!!! Just checked the "Where to Buy" on GSkill's website and pcchill has a fair amount of GSkill memory in stock.....kick A$$.....that puts a smile on my face. :D
 
ok, try going down one more divider on the memory and drop your HTT multi down to 3X. then start bumping the FSB some more. stay away from the half multipliers so you dont end up with odd ball ram speeds. keep dropping that ram divider down so you stay at or under spec till your proc gives out. i got my corsair XMS to do 1-2-2-6 2.8v @DDR398 and i noticed a small improvment in my source engine games. i really think you should be able to manage 2.6 at a minimum with some tweaking. and thats without getting new ram. i know it takes forever to do it all but you should really go through eclipse's guide step by step and find out what the max on your board, CPU, and memory are before going much further.
 
If you set your FSB at 245 and then set your memory at 333 it'll be at 204mhz. you should have no problem running at the factory tighter timings on your ram without additional voltage. odds are your X2 3800 will run that speed.
 
ok, try going down one more divider on the memory and drop your HTT multi down to 3X. then start bumping the FSB some more. stay away from the half multipliers so you dont end up with odd ball ram speeds. keep dropping that ram divider down so you stay at or under spec till your proc gives out. i got my corsair XMS to do 1-2-2-6 2.8v @DDR398 and i noticed a small improvment in my source engine games. i really think you should be able to manage 2.6 at a minimum with some tweaking. and thats without getting new ram. i know it takes forever to do it all but you should really go through eclipse's guide step by step and find out what the max on your board, CPU, and memory are before going much further.
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This is the best thing I can say to do also...using the 3:2 dram ratio will pretty much rule out your memory or on-die controller holding back your CPU clock, and a 3x HTT multiplier isn't going to hurt you, and in the end it'll end up openning up more OC headroom. If you're not going any higher then an HTT of 250, a 4x HTT multiplier is still fine, as the HTT will still be at 1000MHz...but to play it safe, once/if you head past 250 I'd recommend dropping it right to 3x. Technically the HTT can be run a tad over 1000MHz without performance/stabilityy being effected, but it's just one more thing you can do to help yourself out.

improvements are always nice. Here's a cool little tool to use for figuring out your speeds and memory and dividers.. I swear by it :p
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I've always just used my head and a calculator/piece of paper to do the calculations, but that is a nice tool to have for someone who's just getting the hang of things.
 
why use paper when you can plug in numbers? I dont run dividers today, but on my last system I swore by that cool calculator to find the best cpu speed combined with my memory max.
i love it..
 
tytlyf said:
why use paper when you can plug in numbers? I dont run dividers today, but on my last system I swore by that cool calculator to find the best cpu speed combined with my memory max.
i love it..
Click to expand...

I 'pose...I just seem odly fond of doing things the long and in-efficient way I guess. ;) :p
 
whichever way gets the job done and makes you happy is the best way...2eachisOWN.
 
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