1st time WC advice needed

[Crapgame]

With search out of commission indefinitely it's hard to find all the answers I'm looking for so here we go.

the system is currently:
Asus A7N8X-D
Corsair LL PC3200
getting an Athlon Mobile cpu to replace the XP I have now
9700pro
Seagate SATA drive
Sony DVD-/+R
Case: not sure what case I'm going to get, the current one doesn't have room to put WC inside of it and I don't want an external separate unit.


Pumps:
Danner Mag3 or Eheim 1250? What I've read shows the Danner performing better, is it louder than the Eheim or hotter running?

Waterblocks:

CPU, I guess I'll get a Whitewater unless there's a similar/better performer out there for the same money. Good choice?

Video:

I have a 9700pro, not going to upgrade till A64 systems w/PCI Express and an R423 are easily available so I guess a Dangerden Maze4 block. How much restriction will it cause? They all seem to have 3/8 ID barbs.

NB: really necessary? How much restriction will I get using a video and NB block?

Do I run pump=>cpu=>NB=>video=>radiator=>res/pump or do I split the feeds and run separate returns from each to the res?

Radiator:
I'm torn here between wanting to do a heatercore myself for the fun and getting something already done by pros. I want to get a single 120mm fan sized rad, will it do a good job or do I really need to get a case that will fit a dual 120mm setup?

Reservoir or not? I've read several posts about it and it seems to me that at the flowrates we're talking about a T wouldn't allow the bubbles enough chance to get out of the system. Any thoughts?


I'm sure I'll ask a lot more little detail questions but as far as the primary parts, what do you guys think and did I forget anything important?

My primary reason for going WC is the fun of it BUT, I want to get rid of the noise I've been enduring for the last few years with the HSFs I've been using while overclocking. I also would like to really wring out a mobile chip beyond what I could get on air or at least get equal speed without the screaming fans.

 

[AggieMEEN]

Originally posted by Crapgame
Pumps:
Danner Mag3 or Eheim 1250? What I've read shows the Danner performing better, is it louder than the Eheim or hotter running?

Danner pumps are very good, although there have been occasional reports of impeller housings leaking and/or cracking. The fix for this is simple. Eheims have a tradition of quality, but are expensive. Quality these days is pretty good across most of the spectrum of pumps available. Go with whichever pump you want in your system.

I have an Eheim 1250, and it has never given me any problems. Not so much as a fart.

Waterblocks:

CPU, I guess I'll get a Whitewater unless there's a similar/better performer out there for the same money. Good choice?

The WW is a very good block. You may consider ordering one that has a solid copper top, instead of a polymer one.

Video:

I have a 9700pro, not going to upgrade till A64 systems w/PCI Express and an R423 are easily available so I guess a Dangerden Maze4 block. How much restriction will it cause? They all seem to have 3/8 ID barbs.

I don't think you'd need to WC a GPU. GPU blocks add a pretty hefty head loss, what with the tortuous internal configuration. Consider the use of a Zalman heatpipe, or one of those VGA Silencers.

NB: really necessary? How much restriction will I get using a video and NB block?

NB is not necessary, unless you are really just going WC nuts. In which case, buy the Danner Mag 5, and WC every HDD in your rig.

Do I run pump=>cpu=>NB=>video=>radiator=>res/pump or do I split the feeds and run separate returns from each to the res?

You don't necessarily have to split the lines. The arrangement a lot of people use is pump-rad-cpu-(res). This is theoretically the optimal arrangement, but the gain in performance is not amazing. Basically you run the plumbing however is easiest for you.

Radiator:
I'm torn here between wanting to do a heatercore myself for the fun and getting something already done by pros. I want to get a single 120mm fan sized rad, will it do a good job or do I really need to get a case that will fit a dual 120mm setup?

Here you could do either. The Black Ice Xtreme is OK, ready for mounting and fan, is painted, but is also kind of expensive. The people over at Dtek sell the JR120 heatercore, which is 120mm fan sized. The most affordable option is to go to the local autoparts store and buy yourself a small automotive heatercore. Here you may have to do a little modding to get everything to fit, but that's half the fun of WCing your rig.

Reservoir or not? I've read several posts about it and it seems to me that at the flowrates we're talking about a T wouldn't allow the bubbles enough chance to get out of the system. Any thoughts?

T-lines are a very good option for people who like to move their systems frequently. LAN parties. It is true that the bubbles don't bleed out as fast as they would with a res, but they will bleed out eventually.

A res is a good idea for systems that don't get moved about often. A lot of people make their own out of PVC tubing for around $10...compared to $30+ for reservoirs that are purchased on-line. A system with a well designed res will bleed out very quickly, and is also easy to fill. Systems that have a poorly designed reservoir sometimes generate their own bubbles, in which case they will never bleed out.

I'm sure I'll ask a lot more little detail questions but as far as the primary parts, what do you guys think and did I forget anything important?

You've got good parts selected. Make sure you use good tubing, like Clearflex or Tygon, and use decent tubing clamps (I prefer the metal ones).

And before you throw that switch on the PC you should always leak test your watercooling loop!

 

[OneMadPoptart]

Thanks for the very detailed question. Let me see if I can help you out a little bit...

For a case, I think you can get most any mid/full tower to hold a complete watercooling system in it. You may have to cut out holes in the top/bottom/side/front etc... for those 120mm fans, but after that its pretty easy. I personally would suggest one of Lian-Li's PC60 series cases. It sounds like you dont have a lot of HDD's so you can remove their bottom harddrive mount and stick a BI Xtreme right up against the front intake fans and have room for the pump on the bottom of the case. I personally have done this with my system, and it looks really great. If this doesnt appeal to you, you can get many many cases that wil fit all this stuff and still look cool, but might take a little but of modding.

As far as pumps go, either the 1250 or the DannerMag3 will be good choices. The Mag3 does seem to give slightly higer flowrates, but does run a little louder and hotter than the 1250. I personally like my 1250, but I did end up paying a little more than I wanted on it. I think you should go with your gut feeling and pick which pump you like based on apperances and what price you had in mind.

The Whitewater is very good. Go with it.

As far as the GPU block goes, I dont think the 9700 works with the Maze4 GPU block. Dangerden says on their website that the block for the 9700 is the "Geforce4/Radeon 9000/9700 Pro Block", which is available in 1/2'' barbs. I personally have a Maze4, so I can't tell you how the 9700 block performes, but I have seen it working well for a number of people. Do you really need the GPU block? No, not really, but it does cool the card very well, and it looks cool too. Flow really isnt much of a restriction there.

For the NB block, the same circumstances apply. You dont really need one, but it looks cool, cools well, and eliminates a noisy fan from your computer. It does kill flow a bit, but I dont think thats much to worry about.

I would suggest not splitting the flow. Keep pressure at its highest and go everything either pump->rad->blocks->rad OR pump->blocks->rad->res. Both work and show no real improvment in temps. Do whichever works the best as far as tubing length and looks go.

Radiators are a tricky thing. I prefer a nice polished radiator by Black Ice (xtreme or xtreme II). Thermochill radiators are also very nice and perform better than the BlackIce, but are much more expensive. If you have room, I would get the BI Xtreme II and two 120mm fans. If price is an option, you can get the procore and shroud from Dtek, or the heatercores and shrouds from dangerden. They work well and have low restrictions for flowrates. Do whatever works well for you as far as looks and price go.

For reservoirs, do you need one? No. Do they make things simple for a first timer? Yes. Do whatever you are comfortable with. In the end it makes little difference what you use. It is a common misconception that a T line does not trap bubbles that float around your system. The truth is that large bubbles get caught, and the smaller bubbles dont really matter. They dissolve back into the water eventually after a day or so. Dont worry about bubbles.

It does sound like you are getting a fairly nice system. My advice is to go with what feels right. If you are uncomfortable using a heatercore from autozone and brazing on your own barbs, then dont! If you want a reservoir, and you think it looks good, the get it! You want to cool the NB? Sure as hell why not! Its whatever you want.

Make sure you get enough tubing (either clearflex60 or Tygon) and leak test your system before putting major components in. One more important thing is HOSE CLAMPS. All barbs, Y fitings, T lines, etc.. NEED HOSE CLAMPS. They are the best way to combat leaks, and kinda look spiffy if you get some nice ones.

Good luck! Let us know what you decide.

-OMP

 

[Crapgame]

Thank you for the detailed answers. I think since it's a first-timer system I'll go without the gpu and NB blocks. Unless there's a reason not to I think I'll go this route:

Whitewater cpu block
Eheim 1250 pump
BI Extreme radiator OR Thermochill HE120.1
a T-fitting instead of a reservoir.

Yes, the radiator will be more costly than a heatercore but for a first time build I'm more confident with one already made. I am going to build a second WC system at some point in time and I think I'll experiment with heatercores with the second system in mind, probably a dual 120mm fan setup.

I appreciate the responses guys.

 

[Crapgame]

Poptart, I have a Lian-Li pc60 myself and the space in the bottom seems a little small for the listed dimensions of a BI Extreme. I guess it will fit though since that's what you did. Do you use a T-fitting to fill/bleed? Where do you reccomend putting it? I'm thinking going Rad=>pump=>cpu=>rad and putting the T in between the cpu and rad inlet.

 

[Crapgame]

Heh, the more I read the forum, the more I change my mind. I think I'll go ahead with a Danner Mag3 instead of the Eheim1250.

 

[OneMadPoptart]

Crapgame,

If you take out the lowest drivecage, drill out the rivets to remove the mounting hardware, then remove the speaker and bend down the speaker clips, the BlackIce Xtreme fits perfectly in the front of the case while laying on its side. I had to really force mine in there though, which meant I had to unscrew the middle 3.5 bays, lift it up as far as I possibly could, then wedge and wiggle the BIX under there. It scraped off a little paint from the radiator, but its a really nice fit and plus it gets nice cool outside air from those 2 intake fans on the front. I just had to find a new place to put the speaker, reroute the USB cables behind the radiator, and find a new place for my 4 3.5 bay devices to live

For my filling and bleeding, I use a bayres in the top bay of my case. I plan on installing a T line soon however. My current setup goes pump->blocks->bayres->rad->pump, and to add the T line, I would remove the bayres and go pump->blocks->rad->T line->pump. This way, the Tline would be at the bottom-front of the case and out of the way of a lot of things. Putting it there would not harm performance at all, and be the most appealing to the eye. Let me know if you have anymore questions, It sounds like we have very similar setups.

-OMP