Well between these monitors, what exactly is the difference besides the 1.1 inches in increased size, and obviously widescreen for the 2005. For the $280 difference retail I'd expect there to be a big difference. The 19" seems like much a better deal, but I don't want to be severly lacking in some department with the 1905FP although AnandTech gave it good reviews.
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1905FP vr. 2001FP & 2005FPW
- Thread starter n64man120
- Start date
1905=PVA panel. Slightly better viewing angles, nicer blacks.... much less responsive (i.e. the ghosting will be a lot more prominent).
The 2001 is basically older tech than the 2005. The picture on the 2005 is a bit nicer, not to mention it's wide. If you play games, get the 2005. However, if you do not, the 1905 is better bang for the buck, certainly.
The 2001 is basically older tech than the 2005. The picture on the 2005 is a bit nicer, not to mention it's wide. If you play games, get the 2005. However, if you do not, the 1905 is better bang for the buck, certainly.
Although majority of my time is either web browsing, general desktop use, or video editing work... I do alot of gaming also (1/3 of my time perhaps?)
Tough call if ghosting is actualy evident on the 1905... after deals best I could see myself doin is 150$ or so more for the 2005FPW
Tough call if ghosting is actualy evident on the 1905... after deals best I could see myself doin is 150$ or so more for the 2005FPW
UnknownSouljer
[H]F Junkie
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n64man120 said:
For video editing work I would recommend a CRT.
However for virtually everything else including production I would recommend the 2005 fpw.
Some other things to note about differences between 2001fp and 2005fpw
2005fpw is 12ms grey to grey (very nice indeed)
2005fpw has much better blacks (instead of everything being "grey" all the time)
^^ Has much better contrast ratio (600:1 rated, but the proof is in the pudding not the number)
Over all it's just a better all around deal than the 2001fp which has greyed out problems and some motion blur. I'm waiting arround for another dell deal to get my second 2005fpw I won't buy unless it's sub $500 out the door. I'm sure another opportunity like that will come arround soon enough.
The 19" LCD market is pretty stagnant when it comes to non TN panels (certainly not the kind you want for your uses). 17" or 20"+ is where it's at right now for the good stuff...You can get the 2005 for about $400 if you hit the specials... it is well worth it, even if you run into a panel you have to exchange.
1905FP has an MVA panel now from AUO with Overdrive. I recently tested the monitor and one thing is clear.
If you play a lot of games it is not an obvious choice. The trailing is affected by the Overdrive technology. Overdrive is supposed to lower the response time and it works in some transitions.
The affection from Overdrive I talk about is pretty annoying. In black-white transitions a light green trail is seen instead of grey. In otter transitions it can be blue or like.
It makes the trails more visible than before.
The Anandtech test and other tests have tested the 1905FP with the PVA panel so please don't mix it up. There is a difference.
The colours are nice on a 1905FP although they seem nicer on a Samsung 193p (which have the PVA panel used in the 1905FP earlier).
According to your needs a 2005FPW would be a better choice. Especially because of the gaming.
If you play a lot of games it is not an obvious choice. The trailing is affected by the Overdrive technology. Overdrive is supposed to lower the response time and it works in some transitions.
The affection from Overdrive I talk about is pretty annoying. In black-white transitions a light green trail is seen instead of grey. In otter transitions it can be blue or like.
It makes the trails more visible than before.
The Anandtech test and other tests have tested the 1905FP with the PVA panel so please don't mix it up. There is a difference.
The colours are nice on a 1905FP although they seem nicer on a Samsung 193p (which have the PVA panel used in the 1905FP earlier).
According to your needs a 2005FPW would be a better choice. Especially because of the gaming.
AUO doesn't make MVA panels as far as I know... I think they make TN panels only, hence the better response time for the new screen. You can verify it by seeing the viewing angles (VA panels do not completely wash out or go black from the side)
I believe there are now 2 versions of the 1905, however. The FPT and the FP..V? Anyway, one of them is the VA panel, the other one is the TN panel. The TN is faster, but it comes with all the crappy parts of TN panels. The VA panel is still the original 1905 and of course is much nicer, except for games. I hope Dell hasn't completely removed the original 1905.
Regardless, I'd still recommend the 2005.
I believe there are now 2 versions of the 1905, however. The FPT and the FP..V? Anyway, one of them is the VA panel, the other one is the TN panel. The TN is faster, but it comes with all the crappy parts of TN panels. The VA panel is still the original 1905 and of course is much nicer, except for games. I hope Dell hasn't completely removed the original 1905.
Regardless, I'd still recommend the 2005.
The 2005fp is an LG IPS, correct?
For the noob's, a 25ms IPS matrix usually has better overall response times gtg than a 16ms MVA/PVA. With small gtg transitions *VA panels tend to have very high response times. Sometimes this exceeds 70-80ms. I believe the measure for these is btw whereas the IPS is the highest recorded response time. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
For the noob's, a 25ms IPS matrix usually has better overall response times gtg than a 16ms MVA/PVA. With small gtg transitions *VA panels tend to have very high response times. Sometimes this exceeds 70-80ms. I believe the measure for these is btw whereas the IPS is the highest recorded response time. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
steviep: You are wrong. I just told you I tested til MVA version from AUO. Here you are:
http://www.auo.com/auoDEV/products.php?sec=monitor&func=info&product_id=8&items_id=1
Premium MVA from AUO. It is not hard to check the panel on a Dell monitor. It can be done very simple by entering the factory settings in the OSD.
There is no TN panel in Dell 1905FP monitors. There used to be PVA (Samsungs LTM190E4-L02) and now it is the MVA (AU Optronics M190EN03-V0).
If you check the AUO site and the panel M190EN03-V0 you see 8 ms (gray-gray). It has nothing to do with TN, it is because of the Overdrive technology which is a voltage regulation techonology.
http://www.auo.com/auoDEV/products.php?sec=monitor&func=info&product_id=8&items_id=1
Premium MVA from AUO. It is not hard to check the panel on a Dell monitor. It can be done very simple by entering the factory settings in the OSD.
There is no TN panel in Dell 1905FP monitors. There used to be PVA (Samsungs LTM190E4-L02) and now it is the MVA (AU Optronics M190EN03-V0).
If you check the AUO site and the panel M190EN03-V0 you see 8 ms (gray-gray). It has nothing to do with TN, it is because of the Overdrive technology which is a voltage regulation techonology.
logo29a: In Dell 2001FP you find a S-IPS (LG.Phillips LM201U04) panel.
You are right about the response time but notice that most of the new VA panels come with Overdrive, Magic Speed or such which is voltage regulating technologies. They decrease the response time in gray-gray transistions. It's not really impressive yet but it is the right way.
They add a higher voltage at the beginnining of a gray-gray trasistion which makes the liquid crystal twist faster.
Higher voltage typically results in faster transistions.
If you want to know more then just ask.
You are right about the response time but notice that most of the new VA panels come with Overdrive, Magic Speed or such which is voltage regulating technologies. They decrease the response time in gray-gray transistions. It's not really impressive yet but it is the right way.
They add a higher voltage at the beginnining of a gray-gray trasistion which makes the liquid crystal twist faster.
Higher voltage typically results in faster transistions.
If you want to know more then just ask.
lol all the manufacturers and terms are losing me completly. Is there a certain brand name that I could go with that'll give me a 19" in 300-350$ range that has superb game performance since your sayin the 1905FP lacks that... or am I going to have to scrounge up the cash for the 2005FPW for sure? (hard to do when you just got screwd out a few 100$'s from a project, got a speeding ticket, and have to pay car insurance next week 
)
)logo29a: Ohh well. You forgot the "w" and I missed the "2005" =)
Dell 2005FPW is with the S-IPS (LG.Philips LM201W01). The same panel which is in Apple M9177 and Acer AL2032wm.
"Yes, but these technologies come at the price of color accuracy. " - Yes I'm aware of that. When I tested the Dell 1901FP (MVA version) for my site I noticed this. Even trail in black-white is weird. It becomes green. In fast games the monitor seemed blury. That was what I was refering to when i said:
"It's not really impressive yet but it is the right way."
n64man120: Superb gaming performance with 19" could be:
Hyundai L90D+
BenQ FP937s+
Samsung 930B
Dell 2005FPW is with the S-IPS (LG.Philips LM201W01). The same panel which is in Apple M9177 and Acer AL2032wm.
"Yes, but these technologies come at the price of color accuracy. " - Yes I'm aware of that. When I tested the Dell 1901FP (MVA version) for my site I noticed this. Even trail in black-white is weird. It becomes green. In fast games the monitor seemed blury. That was what I was refering to when i said:
"It's not really impressive yet but it is the right way."
n64man120: Superb gaming performance with 19" could be:
Hyundai L90D+
BenQ FP937s+
Samsung 930B
Alright, those monitors above are gonna be like 75$ more than the current deal for the Dell monitor. I'm considering getting the 1905FP and seeing if your all super picky, or it really does suck for gaming. I don't game a ton, but when I do I like to marvel at the graphics and am going to college so I should have alot of free time. Also, I mostly still just play Counter Strike despite how ancient it is lol. I play everything else, but CS still holds through as majority.
I'm thinking, worst case scenerio: I don't like it's performance and sell it on ebay for 350$ shipped atleast and make a profit
I'm thinking, worst case scenerio: I don't like it's performance and sell it on ebay for 350$ shipped atleast and make a profit
Searching discussions in forums, every other person says its blurry as anything, and the other guy says its completly fine. It seems to depend on a person to person basis.
Options:
A) Get the montior and see how it is, can always return or ebay it
B) Put down $200 extra for a 2005FPW or 2001FP
C) Find something less ghosting than 1905FP that won't cost an arm and a leg
Options:
A) Get the montior and see how it is, can always return or ebay it
B) Put down $200 extra for a 2005FPW or 2001FP
C) Find something less ghosting than 1905FP that won't cost an arm and a leg
eventhough I almost never hesitate from ordering refurb from a company that makes the product that I am buying...is there a downside to buying refurb from Dell? Has anyone done it?
Cause I am looking at there widescreen panels and the refurbs are a heck of a lot cheaper then the spankin' new ones.
Cause I am looking at there widescreen panels and the refurbs are a heck of a lot cheaper then the spankin' new ones.
Keep in mind that a lot of the refurbs will be the ones that people returned cause of backlight bleeding or dead pixels So no, I wouldn't buy a refurb LCD.
The Hyundai/Benq/Samsung are ALL TN+ panels, so stay far far away from those, unless gaming is all that you do (262,000 colour screens don't do much for photo work). I'd say your best bet is to fork out the extra for the 20" panels. As I said, there is no "amazing" 19" screens right now. You could try the 1905, and see if it will suit your games sufficiently... but know that even with overdrive tech, PVA/MVA screens are slower than their IPS counterparts.
So no, I wouldn't buy a refurb LCD.The Hyundai/Benq/Samsung are ALL TN+ panels, so stay far far away from those, unless gaming is all that you do (262,000 colour screens don't do much for photo work). I'd say your best bet is to fork out the extra for the 20" panels. As I said, there is no "amazing" 19" screens right now. You could try the 1905, and see if it will suit your games sufficiently... but know that even with overdrive tech, PVA/MVA screens are slower than their IPS counterparts.
You'll have to wait till the Dell 20" panels go to around $400 (and they do, just keep an eye out in the H's hot deals section). That's the only thing I can suggest. 19" SUCKS for LCDs right now, unless you're a hardcore gamer and can deal with one of those afformentioned TN panels.
Me too. I will keep an eye out.
I am wanting this for Photoshop, DVD viewing, PC gaming, and Xbox360 gaming.
I won't be needing it until January though. I just thought I could pick one up now for under $500. But I will wait to see what I can get it at in a [H]ot deal.
I am wanting this for Photoshop, DVD viewing, PC gaming, and Xbox360 gaming.
I won't be needing it until January though. I just thought I could pick one up now for under $500. But I will wait to see what I can get it at in a [H]ot deal.
Keep an eye out, the longer you wait, the bigger chance you can get one of their 20" panels for $400 or less. I got mine for $599 CDN (449 US) on a 1-day deal. And if us Canadians can get it for 449 (keep in mind that Dell Canada includes the customs fees and other cross-border shipping fees in its final price, because they certainly don't manufacture these things here)... you people in the US can definately find it cheap. I even remember reading that someone got a 2005 for $387US shipped, so keep an eye out.
are there any realworld pics anywhere?
of it in an enviroment?
NEVERMIND...I found some.
BTW...ebay has some on there...hmmmm.
OH MY GOSH! I MUST HAVE IT! http://img12.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img12&image=2005FPW-7.jpg
of it in an enviroment?
NEVERMIND...I found some.
BTW...ebay has some on there...hmmmm.
OH MY GOSH! I MUST HAVE IT! http://img12.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img12&image=2005FPW-7.jpg
Pictures aren't going to do it justice. If you want to see what one looks like, I'd suggest heading out to a Dell store if you have one near you. If you don't have one near you just look for somewhere that sells the 20" Apple Cinema display as they have the same LCD panel.
How is Dell's 17" montitor? Is it on par quality wise with the 2005FPW? How would the viewable screen compare to my 19" CRT?
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/...ry_id=210&first=true&page=productlisting.aspx
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=74936&item=5196997459&rd=1
Looks pretty cheap
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/...ry_id=210&first=true&page=productlisting.aspx
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=74936&item=5196997459&rd=1
Looks pretty cheap
As an eBay Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
steviep said:I strongly believe it is a TN panel (someone correct me if I'm wrong) and therefore you should stay far far away
Edit: after looking at the specs... yes, stay away. It's a TN.
the 2005FPW?
noob question....what is TN? and why is it bad?
I was told TN panels have very poor color quality I believe.
Now my questions:
If 17" has the TN panel which makes the colors poor, and 19" has w/e other panel that gives it too much ghosting in games, what does the 20" have that has neither of these issues?
And how can I tell if another monitor is good like the 20" or has the issue that one of these others do?
Now my questions:
If 17" has the TN panel which makes the colors poor, and 19" has w/e other panel that gives it too much ghosting in games, what does the 20" have that has neither of these issues?
And how can I tell if another monitor is good like the 20" or has the issue that one of these others do?
This is somehow strange to me.
At first this forum seemed to be competent but as I have been around for some days now it seems very limited.
It's all about Dell; remember that Dell does not manufacture panels and there fore they get the panels from LG.Philips (S-IPS), AU Optronics (MVA used in 1905FP).
Tiny:
The 2005FPW have S-IPS (LG.Philips LM201W01) panel.
About TN panels:
For the common user this panel is fine. Saying otherwise is a lack of competence as many, many users have TN monitors and love them. The colour reproduction can theoretically be done for 262.144 shades because it can show 64 shades in every of the three subpixels which makes it capable of showing 64*64*64 = 262.144
A VA and IPS panel can show 256 in every subpixel; 256*256*256 = 16,7 millions.
This, however, do not say much about the actual colour reproduction. The TN panels use FRC (Frame Rate Control) to compensate for the missing shades. FRC is algorithms which can produce a new colour from to favourable. In most cases it works fine but if the algorithms fail to produce a new colour a glittering phenomenon can occur (can be seen occasionally when watching movies).
TN panels are not suited for photo work but are fine for the lesser demanding person.
I have two recently written tests on my site with TN monitors and especially one of them had a fine colour reproduction.
Some of the new TN panels have better colours than the old IPS models in practice.
The three monitors I mention have fine colours and can satisfy many users. Samsung make good TN panels too and the Samsung 172X and Samsung 710t are well-liked both by reviewers and users.
New TN monitors which can be interesting could be 930b and 730b.
At first this forum seemed to be competent but as I have been around for some days now it seems very limited.
It's all about Dell; remember that Dell does not manufacture panels and there fore they get the panels from LG.Philips (S-IPS), AU Optronics (MVA used in 1905FP).
Tiny:
The 2005FPW have S-IPS (LG.Philips LM201W01) panel.
About TN panels:
For the common user this panel is fine. Saying otherwise is a lack of competence as many, many users have TN monitors and love them. The colour reproduction can theoretically be done for 262.144 shades because it can show 64 shades in every of the three subpixels which makes it capable of showing 64*64*64 = 262.144
A VA and IPS panel can show 256 in every subpixel; 256*256*256 = 16,7 millions.
This, however, do not say much about the actual colour reproduction. The TN panels use FRC (Frame Rate Control) to compensate for the missing shades. FRC is algorithms which can produce a new colour from to favourable. In most cases it works fine but if the algorithms fail to produce a new colour a glittering phenomenon can occur (can be seen occasionally when watching movies).
TN panels are not suited for photo work but are fine for the lesser demanding person.
I have two recently written tests on my site with TN monitors and especially one of them had a fine colour reproduction.
Some of the new TN panels have better colours than the old IPS models in practice.
The three monitors I mention have fine colours and can satisfy many users. Samsung make good TN panels too and the Samsung 172X and Samsung 710t are well-liked both by reviewers and users.
New TN monitors which can be interesting could be 930b and 730b.
n64man120: Not every 19" are unfit for gaming.
Look at it this way:
Monitors with TN panels are well-suited for gaming but the viewing-angles and colour reproduction is not as good as the others. They are in many 17-19"
Monitors with VA (PVA and MVA) have excellent colour reproduction (the new ones and the coming ones have better reproduction than the current S-IPS panels) and very high contrast but are not suited for gaming as the panel tend to have a very high response time in colour transisitons. <17"
S-IPS have excellent colour reproduction too (not every panel) and an acceptable response time. (not as fast as TN panels). They have good viewing-angles and a acceptable contrast. <19"
Everything depends on your needs. Nothing more, nothing less. A gamer can not be satisfied with a VA panel but a photo editor can. etc.
NB: I'm talking about current panels and not about the future or the past.
Look at it this way:
Monitors with TN panels are well-suited for gaming but the viewing-angles and colour reproduction is not as good as the others. They are in many 17-19"
Monitors with VA (PVA and MVA) have excellent colour reproduction (the new ones and the coming ones have better reproduction than the current S-IPS panels) and very high contrast but are not suited for gaming as the panel tend to have a very high response time in colour transisitons. <17"
S-IPS have excellent colour reproduction too (not every panel) and an acceptable response time. (not as fast as TN panels). They have good viewing-angles and a acceptable contrast. <19"
Everything depends on your needs. Nothing more, nothing less. A gamer can not be satisfied with a VA panel but a photo editor can. etc.
NB: I'm talking about current panels and not about the future or the past.
Thanks for the summary, it's very helpfull and clear. I'm on my secondary web browsing system currently using a 15" LCD NEC 1515 monitor. Google tells me this monitor has a whopping 30ms , but when I went into Counter Strike (all this rig can handle)... I didn't notice the motion blur really despite the fact I was on super low settings.
Perhaps the ms ghosting just doesn't effect me. Therefor, I'm going to hook this 30ms monitor up to my gaming rig today and see how it feels... if I don't notice problamatic ghosting I think I'll just grab the 1905FP. As far as color reporduction goes, how poor is TN really. I said earlier I do some video editing but it's really low profile just for school sports teams and such. Just editing clips together, no color correction.
Finally, any ideas on what panel type this NEC monitor has? I couldn't find it on the spec info sheet. Just for comparisons sake.
Perhaps the ms ghosting just doesn't effect me. Therefor, I'm going to hook this 30ms monitor up to my gaming rig today and see how it feels... if I don't notice problamatic ghosting I think I'll just grab the 1905FP. As far as color reporduction goes, how poor is TN really. I said earlier I do some video editing but it's really low profile just for school sports teams and such. Just editing clips together, no color correction.
Finally, any ideas on what panel type this NEC monitor has? I couldn't find it on the spec info sheet. Just for comparisons sake.
You have to keep in mind that the response time number is only for black to white transitions. VA monitors usually have high gray to gray response time which means that a 30ms TN could be faster than a 20ms VA. I've seen a 35ms LCD that felt faster in games than my 20ms monitor.n64man120 said:
As for your NEC LCD, it most likely has a TN panel.
hehe. I almost forgot that 15" panels existed ;-)
See the ultra short summary as a guideline. Of course there is more to it and some panel types differ from each other because they are made by different manufacturers.
According to your post I would not classify you as a hardcore gamer and you could be satisfied with the Dell. It is hard to say because every person is different.
I have two small clips from when the 19" Dell had the PVA panel. They show CS and the trailing. I can send them if you like (they can give you a hint even though there is a MVA panel in the monitor now).
TN and colour reproduction:
Video editing might okay but the problem is colour correction. The colour reproduction differs a lot from one TN panel to another. (manufacturer to manufacturer).
The best ones can distinguish the very dark shades and the same thing with white shades (but not as good as some of the other panel technologies).
They have fine contrast but the problem is when showing colours close to each other.
Example:
Two red colours should have been a little different but the TN panel might show the same colour in both cases.
Have a look at this:
http://www.rasmuslarsen.1go.dk/billeder/xerox3stor.jpg
The monitor on the left is a 16 ms TN panel and the monitor on the right is an old 18" 30 ms IPS model.
Notice how the colour transition on the IPS panel is smooth while it is irregular on the TN panel.
Which NEC monitor would that be? =)
I have a panel search function on my commercial site but it is a Danish site. You can have the link if you like and use the search function. It is not very hard to interpret but the rest of the site might not be of much use to you =)
If you and others wish, I can make an English panel search function. It wouldnt take more than 10 minutes because I already have the information in my database.
See the ultra short summary as a guideline. Of course there is more to it and some panel types differ from each other because they are made by different manufacturers.
According to your post I would not classify you as a hardcore gamer and you could be satisfied with the Dell. It is hard to say because every person is different.
I have two small clips from when the 19" Dell had the PVA panel. They show CS and the trailing. I can send them if you like (they can give you a hint even though there is a MVA panel in the monitor now).
TN and colour reproduction:
Video editing might okay but the problem is colour correction. The colour reproduction differs a lot from one TN panel to another. (manufacturer to manufacturer).
The best ones can distinguish the very dark shades and the same thing with white shades (but not as good as some of the other panel technologies).
They have fine contrast but the problem is when showing colours close to each other.
Example:
Two red colours should have been a little different but the TN panel might show the same colour in both cases.
Have a look at this:
http://www.rasmuslarsen.1go.dk/billeder/xerox3stor.jpg
The monitor on the left is a 16 ms TN panel and the monitor on the right is an old 18" 30 ms IPS model.
Notice how the colour transition on the IPS panel is smooth while it is irregular on the TN panel.
Which NEC monitor would that be? =)
I have a panel search function on my commercial site but it is a Danish site. You can have the link if you like and use the search function. It is not very hard to interpret but the rest of the site might not be of much use to you =)
If you and others wish, I can make an English panel search function. It wouldnt take more than 10 minutes because I already have the information in my database.