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1905FP panel changed?

F

flenser

Limp Gawd
Joined
Feb 15, 2004
Messages
324
Hello,

I just bought one of the last 1905FPs from dell (they went out of stock the day after I bought mine) and I'm wondering if I got duped. All the reviews in English that I could find for the 1905FP were from around Jan 2005 and they all said that the 1905FP used a nice 8 bit LCD, but after I bought the monitor I found a site (Danish I think) that seemed to indicate that the later 1905FP monitors used a different cheaper/inferior panel.

Anyone hear or know anything about this? I was a little suspicious seeing the 1905FP prices go from around $450 to under $300 (I got mine for $288) but I just figured they wanted to clear out their stock. But now seeing the 1906 and 1907 using faster but less accurate (color) panels at the exact same price as the closeout 1905FP, I'm wondering if they switched the panel in the 1905FP also.

I can't even find any recent 1905FP reviews where someone may have taken one apart to see what exact panel they're using. I want accurate color representation much more than some bogus response time number but Dell advertised the original specs to the end, so any help would be appreciated.

TIA!
 
I doubt that they would go from an 8bit panel to a 6 bit panel without telling anyone. Check the specs.
 
If you can return it I would return the dell and instead get a samsung 940t. It uses the exact same panel as the old 1905fp for about $310 at the egg and you don't have to hassle with Dell. I don't know when but I know the 1905fp panels which were originally samsung were replaced by AU Optronics or some name like that. I think it is faster but with a crappier color depth and worse viewing angles.
 
There's an image I have which will tell you, via the presence of a red and green circle, whether your panel is six bit. I opened it on my 2001fp and got no circles, but when I opened it on my Portege 3490ct, I got the circles. They're pretty obvious.
 
Thanks! Google doesn't seem to link ANY of the halfway useful sites on LCD monitors anymore. Googling for the 1905FP specifically yields only 5 actual english language review sites in the first 200 hits or so. The rest are utter trash, including about 100 "buy your 1905FP review here at jackoff's intarweb plaza" links and a handful that are probably great reviews but they're in Danish or Russian or whatever.

I got more useful info from this forum than in browsing over 1000 google or msn search hits, including direct links to great LCD info sites I found in this forum that should have been on page one of the google search results.

Google is rapidly becoming a complete waste of time for looking for actual information...
 
Both use 6-bit panels with a newer dithering method to get the whole 16.7m colors (by expanding dynamic range). The PVA they used was 6-bit and the TN they now use is 6-bit as well. Superior response time, inferior viewing angles (and possibly inferior contrast). "6-bits" stated as 16.2m use the old dithering method, and "6-bit" ones that state 16.7m use the new dithering method to make up for the last few missing shades of the old method.

The VP930b's panel used 6 bit and frame rate control but I believe it now uses 8-bit (per the same ViewSonic German specs that used to state it was 6-bit+FRC anyway). Unless you can actually see the swarming/moving of pixels (and it bothers you), 6 bit/8 bit is hardly an issue. What you're looking for is high contrast, and unfortunately the 1907FP uses a TN so its contrast is now quite inferior to that of its 1905FP PVA/MVA sibling.
 
i don't think that is right about the whole 6 bit / 8 bit posted above. The PVA panel is certainly an 8 bit colour depth, capable of producing 16.7 million colours. The other version of the 1905FP uses a P-MVA panel as linked above, and not a TN Film and again is 8 bit. The TN Film panels can only produce a real 256k colours, and use dithering to simulate a perceived 16.2 million colours to the user. However, i have not heard anything about an "advanced dithering" to produce 8 bit colour on TN Film. Got any links to support this?
 
The first revision of the 1905FP (what I have) uses the same panel that the Samsung 193P uses... which is a full 8-bit panel. 1905FPs have always been 8-bit.
 
_Korruption_ said:
The first revision of the 1905FP (what I have) uses the same panel that the Samsung 193P uses... which is a full 8-bit panel. 1905FPs have always been 8-bit.
Click to expand...

that was my understanding of it too. It uses either a 19" Samsung PVA (LTM190E4-L02) or AU Optronics P-MVA (M190EN03 V0) panel, both 8 bit true 16.7 million colours
 
Here's what Rasmus from flatpanels.dk (expert on TFTs) has to say about it (bottom post pg. 2): http://flatpanels.dk/flatforum/viewtopic.php?t=625&start=20

Samsung's PVAs employ dithering, while their S-PVAs do not. That's my understanding anyhow. Dell's 2405FPW uses a PVA while Eizo uses an S-PVA for their S2410W for graphics quality reasons.

Look at Samsung's TFT-LCD module chart: http://www.samsung.com/us/Products/Semiconductor/common/product_list.aspx?family_cd=UST01

True 8-bit is not stated for the LTM190E4-L02, but instead just 8-bit (I assume "w/ A/D board" just like the other ones). The 16.2m ones use primitive dithering/FRC, the 16.7m use the more advanced dithering/FRC, and the true 8-bit ones use no dithering whatsoever. I've noticed that the non-overdrive PVAs/S-PVAs tend to have true 8-bit color while the overdrive ones use dithering/FRC to achieve it. But I don't know why.

I can definitely confirm my VP930b uses some form of dithering, it's easiest to see in the gray tones, but it never bothers me. It's just as if the pixels were in a pool of water moving about very subtly. I know a couple of people that also see it on their screens.

This guy sees dithering on his 970P (16.7m TFT) as well: http://geocities.com/icecow88/970p-dithering-en.html

But they are still great choices for LCDs (the 2405FPW and the 970P). They still have their huge high contrast advantage over TN displays, which is very significant and makes every difference in terms of image quality. 6 bit and 8 bit make little difference unless you can actually see the swarming/pool of pixels in certain tones and it bothers you.
 
ah yes, I speak to Rasmus a lot actually, he certainly know his stuff :) That is an interesting read, thanks for pointing me to it. I'll come and join in the discussion there as well (if i can figure out how to sign up in Danish :p)
 
Looking at the chart, one could argue about the lack of consistency across the board. While it doesn't say "true 8-bit" for the LTM190E4-L02, there's no suffix in the voltage column, and there's no "CCFL" suffix in it's respective column.

I'm just being picky. :eek:
 
xtknight said:
But they are still great choices for LCDs (the 2405FPW and the 970P). They still have their huge high contrast advantage over TN displays, which is very significant and makes every difference in terms of image quality. 6 bit and 8 bit make little difference unless you can actually see the swarming/pool of pixels in certain tones and it bothers you.
Click to expand...

that's something i was saying in another thread recently. This forum is one place which i have found on the net which seems to have a lot of people hung up on the whole 8 bit vs 6 bit dilema. Some people might see a difference, perhaps photo enthusiasts would notice something, but unless swarming and dithering artefacts are noticable then the FRC used is probably not an issue in itself. With modern colour accuracy abilities, even from TN Film panels, it would be hard for an average user to tell any real difference between the 6 bit panels and the 8 bit panels.
 
Badd said:
ah yes, I speak to Rasmus a lot actually, he certainly know his stuff :) That is an interesting read, thanks for pointing me to it. I'll come and join in the discussion there as well (if i can figure out how to sign up in Danish :p)
Click to expand...

Use the URLs in the status bar, everything there is in English and it's easy to tell what you're clicking on. ;)

Yes, that chart is wildly inconsistent. Samsung now links to another page for their TFTs which doesn't even state true 8-bit for anything any more: http://www.samsung.com/Products/TFTLCD/common/product_list.aspx?family_cd=LCD07
 
signed up now. If only my email addy was working as it should be! I'll be on there soon. Ps check your PM ;)
 
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