19" 8ms LCD!!!

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mike_j_johnson

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http://www.tcmagazine.info/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=8423

"Gamers in search of the ultimate visual experience today received a huge boost from Hyundai ImageQuest, the global manufacturer of LCD, plasma and CRT displays, with the launch of a new 19-inch TFT display.

With an 8ms response time, the new L90D+ is speeding ahead of the market to take its place as one of the world's fastest responding TFT display that provides completely ghost-free images. This industry leading performance combined with an attractive price and exceptionally sharp picture, due to 800:1 contrast ratio, has the potential to establish the display as the number one choice for the growing number of high-end gamers.

Furthermore, to enhance the overall visual experience, the display's DVI-D digital connection delivers improved imaging and scanning.

"The availability of fast moving games is changing the gaming landscape dramatically," explained Jan Karlsson, Regional Manager, UK, Scandinavia and Baltic, Hyundai ImageQuest. "With an incredibly fast response time and high quality imaging, our new monitor will leave even the most demanding early adopters speechless."

The display's telescopic foot allows for adjusting viewing positions, relieving games addicts from potential neck and shoulder pain. The same size screen as in 21-inch Cathode Ray Tube (CRT) display also helps gamers who spend long hours in front of a screen.

Price and availability:

The price of Hyundai ImageQuest's new 8 ms display starts from £391 incl. VAT, and is available in December from good electronic retailers."
 
NOT ME.... i am using Viewsonic VP912b 12ms... no ghosting at all.. really happy with it..


Although i really want to buy the new Samsung 19inch 8ms monitor.... :D
 
agentzero9 said:
Is anyone getting ghosting from the 12ms panels?
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Ghosting is a luck of the draw problem. I'm on a 25ms LCD. No ghosting whatsoever.
 
ive been wating for something like this, i have 191t and its strange cause sometimes the ghosting is really really bad, and sometimes it fine on the same game! Could temperature affect it at all, or maybe it depends on how much sleep I get... ;)
 
Terpfen said:
Ghosting is a luck of the draw problem. I'm on a 25ms LCD. No ghosting whatsoever.
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LOL, not in anyway is it luck. it's what people can see. some people can see it more then others. it's more like refresh rates...
 
not all 25ms panels are the same type by the same manufacturer either. Some 25ms are way better quality - hence no ghosting.
 
mike_j_johnson said:
not all 25ms panels are the same type by the same manufacturer either. Some 25ms are way better quality - hence no ghosting.
Click to expand...


I can agree with that, but it's stull not luck. just better quality... and thats what we are talking about in the long run...
 
also, LCDs are not all tested by the same person, hence ratings wont be the same, close but not the same
 
Roger said:
There is no ghosting but there is still blurring in fast paced games.
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Ghosting occurs when the screen pixels don't refresh quick enough compared to what the game requires, which makes it seem like blurring. Blurring is just a "toned down" ghosting, but its still ghosting.

That said, a 25ms ghosts. Doesn't matter how you look at it, it ghosts. You might not be able to notice it, but it does. Of course if your playing slower games, it doesn't really matter (RPGs, RTSs). That said, definately not luck of the draw.
 
DaLurker said:
Ghosting occurs when the screen pixels don't refresh quick enough compared to what the game requires, which makes it seem like blurring. Blurring is just a "toned down" ghosting, but its still ghosting.

That said, a 25ms ghosts. Doesn't matter how you look at it, it ghosts. You might not be able to notice it, but it does. Of course if your playing slower games, it doesn't really matter (RPGs, RTSs). That said, definately not luck of the draw.
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Even though ghosting and blurring are caused by the same thing (pixels not being able to refresh quickly enough) I like to differnate between the two. To me, ghosting is when you can see a faint duplicate of moving objects on the screen while blurring is... well, blurring. If we're gonna refer to even small blurring as "ghosting" then I think it's safe to say that every single LCD ghosts.
 
Roger said:
Even though ghosting and blurring are caused by the same thing (pixels not being able to refresh quickly enough) I like to differnate between the two. To me, ghosting is when you can see a faint duplicate of moving objects on the screen while blurring is... well, blurring. If we're gonna refer to even small blurring as "ghosting" then I think it's safe to say that every single LCD ghosts.
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Also, if we're going to refer to even small blurring as "ghosting", then I need new eyes, 'cuz the older I get, the more they "ghost"! :D
From watching TV to reading a newspaper or a book, or even driving for that matter, my eyes are "ghosting" more and more... :(

Honestly, I think this "ghosting" issue is way overrated. The reason I say that is we all have different interpretations of the defination of "ghosting". Some think that ghosting is a faint "duplication" of moving objects like Roger posted ( I agree with him), while others think it's the "blurring" of moving objects. As long as we have problems defining ghosting, how can we objectively judge a monitor (LCD) for it's gaming ability?

I have a friend who just purchased a 12ms Samsung panel. He is convinced that it ghosts. Yet, I have a 20ms Samsung panel and I have never seen ghosting on it. How can this be? Either he is seeing something that he thinks is ghosting, or I'm seeing things that appear normal to my eyes, but in reality it's ghosting. Both of us cannot be right, can we? We have not compared our LCD's side by side.
 
There is an easy way of clarifying this. First of all, you must keep in mind that the ms rating is a range of values and not an absolute number. Therefore, under different operating conditions, a given LCD will perform better or worse when compared to someone else using the same display. For that reason alone, you may very well not notice any ghosting or blur, while someone else using the same screen does.

If you assume identical usage of 2 like screens, the question remains whether the blur is in the eyes of the beholder or the screen itself. If the screen does not blur, it is entirely possible that slower eyes will induce blur when none is there. But it's completely arbitrary depending on the person whether this seems normal or not. Therefore, it is entirely possible your friend's blur is in his eyes only, and he is complaining about what he would see no matter what, while if your eyes are blurring it the same way, you wouldn't notice because that's what you're used to. But if we assume the screen itself does blur, then it's also possible that your friend is noticing this, and you are not noticing it because your own eyes' blurring is masking that of the screen's.

We can define ghosting in one of two ways. The first is when an LCD fails to draw a frame completely by the time the next frame is due to be drawn. The second is when the redraw is slow enough to create a visible afterimages. But the cause of this afterimage is the same as the first case: an LCD failing to draw a frame completely before the next frame is drawn. Regardless of whether you call it ghosting or not, the fact that a frame has not completely changed over by the time the next frame begins to be drawn will create a blur. We can answer your question by what we know about LCDs. The only way to have no blurring is if there is absolutely no trace of the previous frame into the next. We know this to not be possible in 100% of operating conditons at 60fps with current LCDs. This is due to to the fact that some color transistions can take 3 to 4 times longer than the screen's rated ms to change over. So depending on your usage, you might have parts or all of a frame failing to redraw completely by the next one. It could end up being a negligible amount, enough in some cases for people to not notice a thing, but there are always those who could end up having eyes fast enough to notice even a slight blur. Whether it even bothers them or not is their own preference.

Because of the variance in people's ability to perceive motion, the only reliable standard to go by is the screen's actual performance, not its perception by others. But since no such reliable measurement exists for relative performance, we are forced to go by what we see with our own eyes, using the measurements as a general guide. For now, there is no substitute for side-by-side comparison. I will say that it is possible for more exacting and precise measurements to be used which would minimize this discreprancy between perceived and actual performance. It is up to the community and display manufacturers to first develop a better measurement and rating system for LCD performance, and then to make it a universal standard, unlike today's varying standards that could make a screen rated 16ms by one manufacturer be rated as 25ms if it had been rated by another. It could be as simple as specifying a range like "16-40ms", or applying a standard formula that factors in multiple sample points to give a number reflective of relative performance across all conditions, similar to the quarterback rating in football.

I must add that LCD performance keeps getting better, and while we're not there yet, we're on our way to the day where we can run an LCD at 100 *distinct* frames a second. Or maybe before then OLEDs or SED will fit the bill. The future looks bright for flat-panels. Until that day though, I am sticking with my CRT.
 
Roger said:
Even though ghosting and blurring are caused by the same thing (pixels not being able to refresh quickly enough) I like to differnate between the two. To me, ghosting is when you can see a faint duplicate of moving objects on the screen while blurring is... well, blurring. If we're gonna refer to even small blurring as "ghosting" then I think it's safe to say that every single LCD ghosts.
Click to expand...

Well blurring is just a faint duplicate of a moving object, just that the slowness of the screen doesn't mean the duplicate moving object is half an inch away, it just happens to be a mm away for example.

Either ways, it seems Synful Serenity has hit the problem on the button. None of these LCD's are perfect, unlike a CRT because of the way that LCD's operate. But if you think it's fine, then who cares what the numbers say? I have a 16ms and personally I couldn't tell that it wasn't perfect.

Just get what you like, and be happy with that :)
 
Exactly. I would never use an LCD myself for my uses, and I am staunchly pro-CRT for myself. But it is not my place to say how other people should use their screens. LCDs have their benefits as well. And if someone spends most of his time surfing the Internet, I will gladly recommend an LCD. It's hard for me to recommend an LCD to a gamer though because I have no way of knowing how they respond to ghosting/blurring or not. So the safe bet is the CRT. If I have some way of knowing beforehand they are either not bothered by it or don't notice, then I won't hesistate to recommend a relatively fast LCD like a 2001fp. Especially if they complain about flicker on CRTs. But if a person is a CRTer, I only recommend top-end CRTs. With all the advantages LCDs have in terms of sharpness, focus, flicker and such, it makes no sense to get anything but the best CRTs, which are quite close in those areas, yet you are able to enjoy the CRT's motion and resolution scaling benefits. What I don't like is retail chains unilaterally pushing LCDs to everyone who walks through their doors because it's the "new" thing and better for profits. I should think the most extreme LCD supporter should be able to realize that CRTs are still better for some people. I happen to be one of them. But you know what? LCDs are better for some people. And as long as theyre happy with their screens, thats just dandy.
 
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