145K+ PPD -- You bastards!

[Tobit]

Now this does not toss out Apollos argument that there has been a monumentally insane amount of Moar D fever around here

Fever is quite fitting and I am struggling with this myself. I would love one or two more bigadv rigs but I really don't need them, I don't know what the hell I am thinking by even entertaining the thought. I am now producing more points than I have ever in the past yet it still isn't good enough for me, it's beginning to become a disease like those we are trying to find a cure for.

I was going to add another dedicated bigadv box next month but I think, instead, I am going to build the gaming rig I've been putting off for far to long.

 

[musky]

I just wanted to say one quick thing Apollo. Several of us have dual hex sr2 rigs that cost only $1500.
Posted via [H] Mobile Device

Maybe...I don't think you could have gotten out for $1500 best case.
$700 - processors
$530 - the best proce I have seen on the board
$120 - memory (optimistic)
$60 - HSFs
$50 - PSU (very optimistic, although I have one that I think would work)
$20 - HDD
That is $1480...and a couple of people were a little cheaper on processors. I was over this on both of mine by quite a bit, but I guess you could have done it.

 

[APOLLO]

Now this does not toss out Apollos argument that there has been a monumentally insane amount of Moar D fever around here, but it suggests that the number of folks that create the impression you have to spend elephant bucks can be counted on ~one hand.

Other people are running SR-2s who didn't purchase the discounted eBay chips. There are quite a few SR-2 rigs folding outside this team as well whose owners weren't aware of the sale.

Truthfully, the whole debate about the lower cost doesn't apply in my case anyway. I can't mail order and I live north of the border. You would need to figure Canadian prices from local sources, which means two of the cheapest retail Xeon hex-cores, not special eBay chips. Fortunately memory prices aren't that bad but a small consolation. I would also need a very good 1000W PSU bare minimum (my preference would be a 1200W unit), another purchase totaling well over a $100 added to the sum. Case is not a problem since I have at least three old iron server cases that would swallow a SR-2 whole; well, two would and the third might be a little tight. Anyhow, the chassis is not an issue but again a relatively minor consolation. :-/

This isn't so much a controversy stemming from budgetary realities as it is a fundamental problem of accomplished work for rewards. I refuse to accept that a system with roughly twice the performance should be accorded over six times the reward, it's really that simple. I could understand and accept triple or possibly even quadruple the static amount but once one ventures to the outfield and beyond, justification for the reward becomes very tenuous, very fast. Furthermore, the beta WUs throw the whole debate into the stratosphere but won't venture there because (believe it or not), I actually agree they should be worth stratospheric amounts knowing full well what beta testers frequently endure in the verification process. I strongly disagree that such credit or comparable rewards be allotted to the public.

 

[Tobit]

Furthermore, the beta WUs throw the whole debate into the stratosphere but won't venture there because (believe it or not), I actually agree they should be worth stratospheric amounts knowing full well what beta testers frequently endure in the verification process. I strongly disagree that such credit or comparable rewards be allotted to the public.

If it wasn't for one recent bigadv beta unit, we really wouldn't be discussing this. In over the year I've been a beta tester, this particular WU is the only one we've really seen this issue with so I am rather annoyed you would bring this up. I don't want to think about all the points I've lost over the year to beta units that have failed or have been wrongly credited.

I appreciate that you feel they should be worth more to beta testers but, in actuality, they shouldn't be. Point skews are one of the reasons we beta test. Quite disappointed you had to bring this subject up to be honest and you know I have a lot of respect for you Apollo.

 

[APOLLO]

If it wasn't for one recent bigadv beta unit, we really wouldn't be discussing this. In over the year I've been a beta tester, this particular WU is the only one we've really seen this issue with so I am rather annoyed you would bring this up. I don't want to think about all the points I've lost over the year to beta units that have failed or have been wrongly credited.

The accidental beta WU release was the very most recent event that prompted the debate, but far from its incitation. I and a few others have been commenting about the absurd bonus values for many, many months, actually, even before the SR-2 was made readily available. The discussion became more heated in the last quarter or thereabouts.

I appreciate that you feel they should be worth more to beta testers but, in actuality, they shouldn't be. Point skews are one of the reasons we beta test. Quite disappointed you had to bring this subject up to be honest and you know I have a lot of respect for you Apollo.

Absolutely no need to feel this way, especially since this had nothing to do with your involvement. Exactly what you wrote above is what I meant and I apologize if I caused any mistaken interpretation. Whatever may be construed by my post I was justifying the beta values. No need for feeling slighted, Tobit. I think you know me better than this.

 

[may i be worthy]

Other people are running SR-2s who didn't purchase the discounted eBay chips. There are quite a few SR-2 rigs folding outside this team as well whose owners weren't aware of the sale.

Truthfully, the whole debate about the lower cost doesn't apply in my case anyway. I can't mail order and I live north of the border. You would need to figure Canadian prices from local sources, which means two of the cheapest retail Xeon hex-cores, not special eBay chips. Fortunately memory prices aren't that bad but a small consolation. I would also need a very good 1000W PSU bare minimum (my preference would be a 1200W unit), another purchase totaling well over a $100 added to the sum. Case is not a problem since I have at least three old iron server cases that would swallow a SR-2 whole; well, two would and the third might be a little tight. Anyhow, the chassis is not an issue but again a relatively minor consolation. :-/

This isn't so much a controversy stemming from budgetary realities as it is a fundamental problem of accomplished work for rewards. I refuse to accept that a system with roughly twice the performance should be accorded over six times the reward, it's really that simple. I could understand and accept triple or possibly even quadruple the static amount but once one ventures to the outfield and beyond, justification for the reward becomes very tenuous, very fast. Furthermore, the beta WUs throw the whole debate into the stratosphere but won't venture there because (believe it or not), I actually agree they should be worth stratospheric amounts knowing full well what beta testers frequently endure in the verification process. I strongly disagree that such credit or comparable rewards be allotted to the public.

Agree with you about mailorder and in my case Aussie dollars - it is normally a lot lower than right now. And amen to beta testers getting a fraction back of what they lose.

But where do you calculate the over six times for twice the performance? Is that a typo?

I get ~11 minute frame times = 169,000ppd
doubling that to 22 minute frame times = 59,600.ppd

That is 2.8 times the ppd for 2x the performance. Bad, but not over six times.

 

[APOLLO]

But where do you calculate the over six times for twice the performance? Is that a typo?

I get ~11 minute frame times = 169,000ppd
doubling that to 22 minute frame times = 59,600.ppd

That is 2.8 times the ppd for 2x the performance. Bad, but not over six times.

Yes, you're right, for the example you cited. It's a bit different for other comparisons, but my estimations were off by a lot. I mistyped on the keyboard when I used the Windows calc program with the microscopic symbols on the buttons. I should have double checked, that's what I get for being a hasty poster.

 

[may i be worthy]

Yes, you're right, for the example you cited. It's a bit different for other comparisons, but my estimations were off by a lot. I mistyped on the keyboard when I used the Windows calc program with the microscopic symbols on the buttons. I should have double checked, that's what I get for being a hasty poster.

As a fellow hasty poster, I totally understand

But the burning question is - would this change your mind? I really don't want to be a nitpicker lawyerly a-hole (but I will give it a whirl ) but above you did say you could understand and accept triple - or was that only in the context of contemplating a horrific 6 times?

Current bigadv is a fraction under triple for twice perf. I have yet to see a bigadv scenario where they reward more than 2.84 times for 2x. The example I cited holds for all current bigadv.

So a 1.42x or 42% bonus if you will. When put that way, does that change anything for you? Am I pushing too hard to try to convince you to stay?

 

[APOLLO]

As a fellow hasty poster, I totally understand

But the burning question is - would this change your mind? I really don't want to be a nitpicker lawyerly a-hole (but I will give it a whirl ) but above you did say you could understand and accept triple - or was that only in the context of contemplating a horrific 6 times?

Current bigadv is a fraction under triple for twice perf. I have yet to see a bigadv scenario where they reward more than 2.84 times for 2x. The example I cited holds for all current bigadv.

So a 1.42x or 42% bonus if you will. When put that way, does that change anything for you? Am I pushing too hard to try to convince you to stay?

Sometimes your posts bestow an ambiguous flair with the frequent employment of wink-eyed smilies, MIBW. Not intending to be critical of form, but in other forums I've visited many times in the past, the wink simile is an oft deployed euphemistic replacement for the 'roll-eye', just in case you weren't aware.

Now to the subject at hand. I have not deliberated on a specific amendment to the reward system. All I can say is that something significant needs to be accomplished for a lasting, long term resolution. My future in the project may or may not be altered if something is actually done. Whatever happens, my departure is slated for the beginning of spring from current estimations. I seriously doubt any change will occur before then, if ever.

 

[may i be worthy]

Sometimes your posts bestow an ambiguous flair with the frequent employment of wink-eyed smilies, MIBW. Not intending to be critical of form, but in other forums I've visited many times in the past, the wink simile is an oft deployed euphemistic replacement for the 'roll-eye', just in case you weren't aware.

I was not aware - to me a wink means a wink. I mean them only in good humour. I know I overuse them. Possibly because it is very easy in email / forums to get into situations where offence is easily taken, and as I am generally pretty laid back and agreeable, I really hate accidentally winding people up. In this case, when somewhat confronting you with your own words (nobody likes that) in an issue I know you to have strong feelings about, I want you to know I am playing the ball, not the man. But I think we both know pretty well where the other is coming from. (insert unambiguous non-sarcastic sincere smiley here!)

Now to the subject at hand. I have not deliberated on a specific amendment to the reward system. All I can say is that something significant needs to be accomplished for a lasting, long term resolution. My future in the project may or may not be altered if something is actually done. Whatever happens, my departure is slated for the beginning of spring from current estimations. I seriously doubt any change will occur before then, if ever.

Yes, it is all a bit moot until we see what comes out of DAB, and what happens with the release of the now infamous 2689, which I hope comes after DAB can discuss it.

 

[APOLLO]

All is cool about the smilies.

Yes, it is all a bit moot until we see what comes out of DAB, and what happens with the release of the now infamous 2689, which I hope comes after DAB can discuss it.

I'm pretty much done with both discussing the subject (unless someone really wants to) and with the project as a whole. We'll see what manifests from the DAB next month. Although my hopes were pretty high at the onset, my common sense is yelling deafeningly at me and I'm trying my hardest to ignore it. Unfortunately, experience is its mouthpiece...

 

[sirmonkey1985]

All is cool about the smilies.

I'm pretty much done with both discussing the subject (unless someone really wants to) and with the project as a whole. We'll see what manifests from the DAB next month. Although my hopes were pretty high at the onset, my common sense is yelling deafeningly at me and I'm trying my hardest to ignore it. Unfortunately, experience is its mouthpiece...

your not trying hard enough!! Try harder!!!!!!!!AAAARRRRRRGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!


yup im a little to hyper right now..

 

[404 - File not found]

Top 15 is all 200k and up

DigitalFX 469,907
musky 403,063
FLECOM 379,817
Tobit 322,454
Mtnduey 282,517
[H]ecklerKoc[H] 267,017
dropper 260,141
Axdrenalin 245,723
beekeeper([H]ardOCP) 244,330
capreppy 239,407
Kendrak 238,514
404_-_File_not_found 235,843
Falcon_CMH 215,173
SazanEyes 214,774
APOLLO 201,498

 

[APOLLO]

^ Are those last 24hr stats or PPD? I never hit 200K PPD yet but came within less than 2K once recently. /shrug

 

[may i be worthy]

Yeah - they are all a bit high - I clicked on EOC 24hrs stats a short time later (same update) and:


DigitalFX 420,034
musky 349,127
FLECOM 341,683
Tobit 320,903
Mtnduey 233,522
[H]ecklerKoc[H] 221,686
dropper 218,491
Axdrenalin 218,482
capreppy 214,663
beekeeper([H]ardOCP) 213,767
Kendrak 206,373
APOLLO 190,255
404_-_File_not_found 189,525
SazanEyes 187,385
Falcon_CMH 177,750
Jaech 171,720
mplee73 168,413
Syran 142,562
Kanakis[H] 138,656
zero2dash 130,386

And 2 fresh 2684's just downloaded. Merry Bloody Christmas, from PG <= accurate rolleyes.

 

[Chilly]

APOLLO, let me ask you this, what WOULD it take?

Removal of the bonus system all togther? Ignoring the fact that the bonus system most likely will never go away, PG has always said the purpose of the bonus system is to encourage fewer work units to be turned in more quickly, rather than more work units turned in more slowly, so how to you encourage people to do that.

And don't give me the "if systems crunch units faster, the ppd increasing linearly anyways" is incentive enough. While true(that faster tech becomes, faster it will crunch), the issue *I THINK* is that PG is trying to avoid is, for example assuming a classic work unit is worth 2,000 points, people running two slower classic units(turned in ever 4 days, resulting in 1000PPD) instead of one classic unit(turned in every 2 and half days, resulting in 800PPD) because the two classic units en up bringing the user higher PPD, even though the science is worth LESS to PPD.

PG has made it clear time and again that fewer units returned faster is more important to them than more units done more slowly

Again, I think the bonus system's expontental needs to be CUT DOWN(sure finishing a unit twice as fast is worth something more sciencce but eventually you hit dmimishing returns and the bonus system SHOULD reflect that), however I understand FULLY where the bonus system is came from.

 

[APOLLO]

APOLLO, let me ask you this, what WOULD it take?

Removal of the bonus system all togther?

Bud relax, it's the start of the holiday season and your tone is a little too confrontational for someone who has never communicated with me in the past. Why should you be concerned anyway? I posted several times since summer that I do not advocate an abolishment of the bonus system, but a lessening of its inequity which seems to be increasing by the quarter.

Ignoring the fact that the bonus system most likely will never go away,

I posted similar cynical comments and know this all too well, which is why I think the DAB will accomplish little and is superfluous to the FF that was launched for community mediation in addition to other purposes.

PG has always said the purpose of the bonus system is to encourage fewer work units to be turned in more quickly, rather than more work units turned in more slowly, so how to you encourage people to do that.

I will restate what I posted over and over again - no one is advocating abolishment, only reform.

And don't give me the "if systems crunch units faster, the ppd increasing linearly anyways" is incentive enough.

See above.

While true(that faster tech becomes, faster it will crunch), the issue *I THINK* is that PG is trying to avoid is, for example assuming a classic work unit is worth 2,000 points, people running two slower classic units(turned in ever 4 days, resulting in 1000PPD) instead of one classic unit(turned in every 2 and half days, resulting in 800PPD) because the two classic units en up bringing the user higher PPD, even though the science is worth LESS to PPD.

I know what PG has done and why, but it seems not everyone is knowledgeable on -bigadv history, so I suggest you and those who think the bonus system was devised solely for the accelerated research, read up on the full rationale behind the bonus system.

PG has made it clear time and again that fewer units returned faster is more important to them than more units done more slowly

Tell me something I don't know. that is precisely what I was saying when the folks from EVGA overly touted their massive volume increase to the project. I know it's not only about the volume.

Again, I think the bonus system's expontental needs to be CUT DOWN(sure finishing a unit twice as fast is worth something more sciencce but eventually you hit dmimishing returns and the bonus system SHOULD reflect that), however I understand FULLY where the bonus system is came from.

Then we have TOTAL and complete agreement. You reiterated everything I have been saying literally verbatim in various threads! There's no argument, LOL.

(Man, I hate Mercury retrograde periods...)

 

[Chilly]

I aplogize if my tone was misread, perhaps this is why MIBW over uses smilies as I was NOT trying to come off as confrontational

I was more or less curious for more of your thoughts, thats all. Your a respected old timer, and PG has seemed to stress you out to the point of considering throwing majority of your systems idle.

I'm a fellow canuck and just curious on your thoughts. With that, heres another question, if not hardware and F@H(or other DC projects) what other hobbies would your pursue? I ask that question becuase, besides playing video games, random development and learning(virtual machines, the reason I actually built and SR-2, nothing to do with F@H, I run F@H to soak up spare cycles), and minor video editing, all of which I can do on a single PC. But F@H is adicting, and I have myself drawing up fantasy plans to build a sandybridge cluster all for the sake of fun.

To be honest, F@H is giving me a new reason to become intrested in hardware all over again.