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-130C chiller on ebay...

That's huge, too much of an eyesore/energy drain for me to use constantly... but it would be fun to play with.
 
As is = Broken 99% of the time...\

Also...it looks like it runs on 230V....at 18 amps... that is 4140 Watts! Hello Power Bill!!!

In the case of your electric bill, one 60-watt bulb used five hours per day for 30 days equals nine kilowatt hours (60 watts of power X 5 hours per day X 30 days divided by 1,000 = 9 kilowatt hours).


4140 watts of power X 24 hours per day X 30 days divided by 1,000 = 2980.8 kilowatt hours).

At a standard electic company rate of 5 cents/kwh = $149.04/month

$149.04/month
 
For $.99, you can't go wrong! Hehe.

It's big, but I'm sure you could dismantle it and refurbish it. Cutting the size, adding some cool effects, and making it look neat. Plus, you could probably get away with adding or adjusting certain things to actually house the computer itself! It'd be like a super computer!
 
I'd definitely want to see if it is charged and in good working order before sinking any cash into it.

according to the panel on the back of it, that sucker is charged with polycold refrigerant. If I am thinking of the right refrigerant, polycold is a proprietary flammable HCFC that is primarily a mixture of halocarbons and hydrocarbons (mainly ethane).

it would probably cost an ungodly sum to have it recharged considering the proprietary nature of the refrigerant and the fact that it takes an 80oz charge :eek: there might be some viable alteratives but I am not sure what they would be...

also, it requires 208/230v 3 phase power. if you plan to hook it up at home, you are going to need a rotary phase converter if you want to run it at 100% capacity. the size of the required rotary phase converter is dependant on the torque needed to fire the compressor in that baby up. The last time I looked at rotary phase converters, they were damn expensive -- anywhere from $500-$5000 depending on the kw rating of the converter.

all that aside, it would be all kinds of fun to see what kinda temps that would produce on an OCed amd64. :D

a fullblown cascade with the proper refrigerants could probably get close to matching it though and the cascade might even be less expensive after you figure in the cost of the rotary phase converter.
 
U think a cascade would come close? I'm very seriously thinking about building my own phase change and a Cascade looks good...my physics teacher is excellent with this kind of stuff (he led a design team on the first nuke sub too and has the cars and certificates to prove it...viper, dodge hemi pickup w 500hp dual exhaust options)..he has professional labatory access and can get refrigerants reallllly cheap...
 
oh yeah...about the refrigerants...someone on XS said that the member Charlie (trust me, he's [H]) got a unit like this and they charged him $1000 for proprietary gasses...which is why I am going to inquire whether its fully charged. If not, forget it.
 
Originally posted by computerpro3
U think a cascade would come close? I'm very seriously thinking about building my own phase change and a Cascade looks good...my physics teacher is excellent with this kind of stuff (he led a design team on the first nuke sub too and has the cars and certificates to prove it...viper, bmw 765, dodge hemi pickup w 500hp dual exhaust options)..he has professional labatory access and can get refrigerants reallllly cheap...I asked him.
Click to expand...

shamino's cascade with r22 on the high stage and Ethylene on the low stage is hitting something like -110C.
dabit had his cascade at something like -100C with a 150 watt heatload and was still tweaking it for lower temps last I heard.
chilly1 has one below -100c but not sure where he has it to now.

some industrial cascades reach -150C...

cost:

the low stage refrigerant is the one that will usually sink your bank account (although the high stage refrigerant can also cost quite a bit depending on what you use).
check with your prof on the low stage refrigerants:
Ethylene(R1150)
suva95 (a.k.a. R508B)

the usual combo that shows up on most of the newer industrial cascades seems to be R404a on the high stage (about $250 for a 24lb cylinder) and suva95 on the low stage ($95 per lb - 10lb cylinder is the smallest I have been able to find so $950)
of course, you could find refrig tech to charge it just to the amounts needed for the system that would be a much smaller amount than either of the cylinders I mentioned.

a lot of cascades also use a mix of refrigerants for the high stage like: 66% R-134a, 22% R-22, 12% R-290.
R-290 is propane.
R-22 = stuff in your home a/c
R-134 = stuff in your car. :)

if you have never built a phase change system, build a single stage 1st and then move on to a cascade build. building even a single stage is fun for dayz and it will sharpen up some skills needed to attempt the cascade build. if a cascade goes bad, it can go boom...
 
Originally posted by computerpro3
oh yeah...about the refrigerants...someone on XS said that the member Charlie (trust me, he's [H]) got a unit like this and they charged him $1000 for proprietary gasses...which is why I am going to inquire whether its fully charged. If not, forget it.
Click to expand...

lol... if it is fully charged and you can get it cheap, recover the 80oz of polycold out of that biatch and sell it...then take the cash, build a cascade and buy some comp parts. prolly still have enough leftover for beer money. :D
 
Do you have any idea what happens when you cool a processor that cool for extended periods of time? Excluding the protection needed for leakage and breaking components, my guess is that with cooling down around -130 (-90 cooler than Prometia/Vapochill), the proc wouldn't be able to operate, or would crack/break.

That's just my guess, I've heard that they keep the Prometeia around -40c because that's a safe tempature for operation.
 
Originally posted by Asazman
Do you have any idea what happens when you cool a processor that cool for extended periods of time? Excluding the protection needed for leakage and breaking components, my guess is that with cooling down around -130 (-90 cooler than Prometia/Vapochill), the proc wouldn't be able to operate, or would crack/break.

That's just my guess, I've heard that they keep the Prometeia around -40c because that's a safe tempature for operation.
Click to expand...

yeah -- I know what a processor does at that temp...it overclocks like a mean SOB. ;) Seriously, the temp itself isn't the problem. IBM did a ton of research on this - according to their results, -200 is primetime running temp. The processors and other associated parts are not usually damaged by the extreme temps but how quickly those temps are induced. Sure, if you drop a CPU to -140C or lower in 2 seconds (a.k.a. pour some LN2 on it) the materials on the processor are going to contract extremely quickly and at slightly different rates due to differences in materials...not good. but, if you slow down that chilling process a little & add some protection for condensation and it isn't disaster in the making but rather the route to insane levels of performance. check out any of the cascade systems I mentioned above - those are used on CPUs, GPUs, etc. and they are hammering the performance of just about everything else out there.

as for the prommie, in stock form it doesn't keep anything on the processor at -40C under any type of load. the sensor is in the backass part of the evap housing where it may be -40 but it definitely isnt that at the evap/cpu interface. as is from the factory, the prommie is doing just about all the hardware with the provided refrigerant can do. tweak the hardware, change the refrigerant, etc. and it can do more but the compressor is by no means a powerhouse. I suspect the prommie is as it is because it being much more would have required a good deal more $$ to produce, a much higher end price, an overall size that most would not approve of and it would have required more extensive insulation and condensation protection. that would have taken out a nice portion of the market that they otherwise might entice into paying $1000 for the temps it can currently produce.

leakage.
if you braze things shut with 15% brazing rods, the connections are rated at over 10,000psi. leakage isn't a problem if the system is built correctly.

side note - with more expensive refrigerant, more tweaking of the individual unit (no 2 refrig loops are exactly the same and they always perform at their peak performance when they are tweaked to the specific heatload they have to handle), etc. the prommie can do better than it does from the factory...but it is never going to match a system with a 1/2 hp compressor pumping R507 thru a tweaked cap tube into a baker evap...not to mention a cascade system.
 
Originally posted by Retro Rex
As is = Broken 99% of the time...\

Also...it looks like it runs on 230V....at 18 amps... that is 4140 Watts! Hello Power Bill!!!

In the case of your electric bill, one 60-watt bulb used five hours per day for 30 days equals nine kilowatt hours (60 watts of power X 5 hours per day X 30 days divided by 1,000 = 9 kilowatt hours).


4140 watts of power X 24 hours per day X 30 days divided by 1,000 = 2980.8 kilowatt hours).

At a standard electic company rate of 5 cents/kwh = $149.04/month

$149.04/month
Click to expand...


Ouch 5cents, 2.9 cents where it live. You do realize the last few of these people have bought on ebay, needed to be refilled, at a cost of over $1000, from other forums i've been at.
 
Originally posted by Tedinde
Ouch 5cents, 2.9 cents where it live. You do realize the last few of these people have bought on ebay, needed to be refilled, at a cost of over $1000, from other forums i've been at.
Click to expand...

yeah - the refrigerants for some of these units are unreal expensive. I thought the refrigerants like suva95 were expensive until I started looking at some of the proprietary refrigerants from different companies. a lot of them are unknown blends that are very guarded secrets of the companies that make them. the one used in the sanyo autocascade units comes to mind ($$$$). one of those fully charged for cheap in an auction would be one helluva find...I'd rewire my fricken house for 3 phase if I found one. ;)
 
Originally posted by weapon--


also, it requires 208/230v 3 phase power. if you plan to hook it up at home, you are going to need a rotary phase converter if you want to run it at 100% capacity. the size of the required rotary phase converter is dependant on the torque needed to fire the compressor in that baby up. The last time I looked at rotary phase converters, they were damn expensive -- anywhere from $500-$5000 depending on the kw rating of the converter.

Click to expand...

I wouldn't be too worried about the 230v. IIRC, a lot of houses come with one for the washer/dryer. Your significant-others clothes will just have to hang dry!

At least my house did.
 
Originally posted by Spidey329
I wouldn't be too worried about the 230v. IIRC, a lot of houses come with one for the washer/dryer. Your significant-others clothes will just have to hang dry!

At least my house did.
Click to expand...

yeah -- that is 230v PH1 also referred to as single phase...that is a whole different ballgame from three phase power. that is why you need a rotary phase converter.

usually three phase power is available only in industrial zones.
 
Oh man, that might be my next project (I live on Long Island too). I really know nothing about that kind of cooling system though. But for a couple bucks, how bad could things turn out. Right?

Right?

:D
 
I wonder how much heat that thing generates. Definitely not fit for the bedroom computer.

I have an Idea! Buy a faster processor instead!
 
I have a brainstorm...

they don't MAKE faster processors than mine...3.7-8ghz on air baby.
 
Originally posted by pr0pensity
I wonder how much heat that thing generates. Definitely not fit for the bedroom computer.

I have an Idea! Buy a faster processor instead!
Click to expand...

and miss out on all the fun of -100C or lower temps???

lol.

besides, the fastest processors made are just begging for these temps with some hard core OCing. you can stay months ahead of the current fastest production CPUs with this type of cooling. hello supa-performance.
 
I asked the seller if the unit was charged the response was "i dont know"

I sent back can you try to power it up the response was
"IT IS IN A STORAGE WAREHOUSE, NO REAL POWER TO RUN IT

I ASKED THE PERSON THERE TO LOOK AT, BOTH GAGES ARE AY ZERO"
 
>they don't MAKE faster processors than mine

Who doesn't?
You are aware that there are faster processors than Intel Pentiums, yes?

If you're burning this much money, be aware that there are alternatives.
 
You don't prevent condensation. You prevent condensation from damaging the components. ;)
 
Originally posted by pr0pensity


Who doesn't?
You are aware that there are faster processors than Intel Pentiums, yes?

If you're burning this much money, be aware that there are alternatives.
Click to expand...

What are you doing posting in an overclocking/cooling forum with that kind of atittude? Sure we could all buy faster processors, but then we'd have one less hobby, and the real nerds would have NO hobby ;)
His point is that he can't buy a processor that runs faster than the one he currently is using.
 
Originally posted by Biggie
umm, how do you prevent condensation in that thing?
Click to expand...

insulation...neoprene works.
other than that, conformal silicone coating, dielectric grease and vapco cork tape.
 
Originally posted by pr0pensity
>they don't MAKE faster processors than mine

Who doesn't?
You are aware that there are faster processors than Intel Pentiums, yes?

If you're burning this much money, be aware that there are alternatives.
Click to expand...

lol...not MY pentium...not comercially available anyway...I'm not buying the chiller since its not charged btw, BUT

There are NOT faster processors comercially available than the one I am using now, which on air is THIS. PLEASE show me a faster chip on air (for $160 no less) that is comercially available. Keep in mind the FSB. The A64 is a nice chip, I would jump at a chance to get one, but I would say you would need around 2.6ghz on air to compare, which hardly (ever?) happens, and registered memory cant hit 2-2-2-5 @ 530mhz like my Mushkin can. I am confident that I have the fastest or close to (within a few percentage points) comercially available air cooled platforms. I'm not scoring sky high 3dmarks because of my video card. Give me a 9800xt that hits 490/410 and I'll be right up there with the 23k-24k scores on air.

untitled2.JPG
 
I tweaked a few more degrees out of my second single stage system tonite...but, all this talk about ultra low temps gave me another push in the right direction. I started ordering parts for my next phase change system....its gonna be a cascade. :D

items that are either on the way or will be soon:
dual 3/4hp compressors
start and run capacitors
condenser from a cryo-freezer
several different copper bar blanks
oil separator
dual heat exchangers
115v 120mm fans
corrugated SS tube with SS braid covers
3/8sae flare x 1/4 npt fittings
cap tubes

time to get cold....errrrr....colder. ;)
 
Originally posted by computerpro3
and you're gonna give that to me, right?;)
Click to expand...


errrrrr....thinking no. ;) I'll post pics of it though. :)

I just got some more of the part confirmations. woohoo, the part gathering is going much easier than usual (*knocks on hard plastic mousepad*)

condenser with fans is covered
heatexchanger is covered -- but it is going to require some mod action -- got a fairly large one so the fittings will have to have new adapters brazed on...yet another reason to play with the torch....muahahaha.
compressors are on the way
high stage refrigerants are sitting in the garage.
I'm going to hopefully pick up the line dryer, cap tubes and an oil separator at one of the local hvac shops tomorrow.
still working on the damn tubes for the suction lines.

with a little luck, all of the parts will arrived undamaged and the building process with start within the next 2 weeks. damn the slow ground shipping but I couldn't make myself pay 2 day air shipping charges on items that weigh over 50lbs. I would have ended up paying more for the shipping than the parts.
 
Good idea about pilfering the 80 oz. of charge out of this unit,
BUT
can't be done. The blend of gases are heterogenous. This means all the different gases are separate. Inside the system there's 7 oz. of this and 9 oz. of that and maybe 10 oz. of something else. When you evacuate the gas, you can't separate the gases and add them in the correct ratio. An 80oz. charge is ONLY good in a system that uses 80oz. of charge. Oh and btw, it's true! My unit uses 16oz. for a tidy sum of $1100...

C
 
at -140c it would probabily rip the heatsink right off the processor... [H]ard ocp did a review a while back on one of the prebuilt phasechange cases... it the temp differential ripped the heatsink right off... could have been a faulty chip tho...
 
Originally posted by Snow4832
at -140c it would probabily rip the heatsink right off the processor... [H]ard ocp did a review a while back on one of the prebuilt phasechange cases... it the temp differential ripped the heatsink right off... could have been a faulty chip tho...
Click to expand...

It was the heatspreader that popped off, so it wouldn't be an issue with Athlons. There may be other related problems though, like interconnects disconnecting from substrate/silicon, or silicon separating from substrate...
 
Originally posted by computerpro3
hey, weapon, you sigged me! i feel honored!
Click to expand...

errr...it has been there since before this thread started.

lol.

anyway, it was sig-worthy. :)

Originally posted by zer0signal667
It was the heatspreader that popped off, so it wouldn't be an issue with Athlons. There may be other related problems though, like interconnects disconnecting from substrate/silicon, or silicon separating from substrate...
Click to expand...

yeah - it was the heatspreader and that is a fairly common problem. the goop they use to hold the heatspreaders in place is not very fond of cycling thru extreme hot and cold variances so they pop off. you can do the same thing with most forms of epoxy -- heat them up then radically drop the temp and then repeat that cycle....it will give out. I spent a decent amount of time designing a heatspreader that doesn't pop off (applied differently) or suffer from condensation problems like some of the ones on the A64s...it actually lowers temps too.
If I ever get off my lazy arse, I will call the patent office and see if they are gonna make up their mind anytime soon or if they just want to continue to yank my chain somemore for shits and giggles. When I get a response on the provisional patent, I will post some pics of it (as it should be in production by then anyway) :)

the same seems to be the case with interconnects, etc. processors are made from a variety of materials - each material expands and contracts at slightly different rates. So, if you slam them from hot to cold to quickly you get problems. The way to avoid that is slower pulldown (i.e. you give all of the materials more time to respond to the change in temp by decreasing the rate at which the temp drops)

if you have a processor that is cruising along at 40C and you dump LN2 on the bastage problems will occur. If you take the same processor and gradually lower the temps you are not only safe but also in prime OC territory.

the more serious problems with any supa-cooling system that pushes temps well below ambient is the same as it has always been -- condensation. Luckily, the solution is also pretty much the same: insulation...usually in the form of neoprene. There are several products that help with condensation/water problems and they are seemingly becoming more readily available. DangerDen now carries Dow conformal coating which is very nice for condensation-proofing the seams around sockets and other such areas. MG Chemicals makes a sweet spray on silicone conformal coating as well as a nice acrylic conformal coating. Vapco cork tape (bascially the same stuff that nVentiv calls 'sealstring') is another good one. Of course, you can't leave out dielectric grease.

for an excellent rundown on condensation prevention, check out shamino's article at VR-Zone and the related thread at the VRForums:
http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=230&s=1
http://www.vrforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11494
 
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