10 Things We Hate About Apple

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PC World has posted an editorial today titled 10 Things We Hate About Apple. If I remember correctly, this is the article that resulted in the resignation of the magazine’s editor last week.

Today, we--that's us, Narasu and Alan, veteran Mac users both--are going to get some stuff off our chests. We've enumerated ten things we hate about Apple (or its followers, or simply about the experience of using its products).
Click to expand...
 
They forgot the most important one:

Apple will not just sell their OS off the shelf, like all the other normal software developers do.
 
Steve said:
PC World has posted an editorial today titled 10 Things We Hate About Apple. If I remember correctly, this is the article that resulted in the resignation of the magazine’s editor last week.
Click to expand...

As soon as I read the post I figured there was some corporate worm crying about offending advertisers. I love how it's even linked to a "10 Things we say to make Apple give us money!", errr, "10 things we love about Apple".
 
This is pretty much my stance on Apple. What's up with the circular shaped mouse anyway? :(
 
TechLarry said:
All reasonable assessments.
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I agree. I liked their assessemts because they are all so true. I especially love the one on patches for Apples and, how they dont even warn their end users of the problem.
 
#9 really is the major reason I don't buy mac. That and I don't like Steve Jobs as a human being.
 
Yes --- I agree --- #9 is the biggest issue I have.

Apple, Inc. are the communists of the computer world
 
I sold my iPod Shuffle and purchased a PlaysForSure Zen V (4GB) because of Apple's stupid "Mac vs. PC" ads.

I used Macs on a daily basis this year (CS lab that met in the Mac lab), and I know how to install/configure/use Mac OS X. I also use Linux on a daily basis (multiple servers and a personal workstation), and Windows Vista.

So, when I choose to use a PC, I do it with good reason. My $110 CPU/mobo combo smokes all but the most expensive Macs. My 8600GT is way faster than any GPU you can get in any Mac excluding the huge $2200 Mac Pro. My Media Center box has 2 500GB HDDs and a 300GB HDD. You can't even put two disks in any Mac excluding the Mac Pro, let alone three.

So, when some pencil-neck kid gets up there and tells me how crappy my OS or my platform is, I get a bit pissed. I get pissed when they imply that PCs are insecure (not if you actually pay attention to what you're downloading), prone to crashing (Vista has never bluescreened on any of my PCs for any reason other than hardware failure - ever), hard to use (apparently not for the 600+ million people who use them every day), or loaded with crapware (not if you buy from a smaller reseller, build your own, or reload the OS).

Apple's like the "in" kids that some of us may remember from middle school. Apple doesn't just believe it's products are better, it believes that it's users are better. And Apple users are always quick to point out how much better they think their hardware and their OS is.

The fact is, harware is hardware. Apple's notebooks are made by the same company that makes most HP and Dell notebooks. They have the same Intel chipsets and the same Intel CPUs. In every respect except for their physical design and their lack of a traditional BIOS, they are normal PCs.

Compare Apple to HP. When was the last time you heard HP trashing Dell or Apple? It is in fact against HP corporate policy to do so. The same thing is true at Dell.

When Apple insults PCs, they insult PC users. They imply that we are boring people with nothing better to do than make spreadsheats. They imply that we are stupid for choosing the platform that gives us the most choices, best value, and broadest compatibility. They imply that their select few are smarter, more creative, and better looking. To Apple, we are the tired old workers in the worn-out suit.

I cannot buy, own, or use a product from a company that constantly trashes my choices. My computer is free of Apple hardware and free of Apple software.

Keep pushing, Apple. Microsoft and the entire PC ecosystem is welcome to have me as a customer. Apparently, you aren't.
 
bsoft said:
I sold my iPod Shuffle and purchased a PlaysForSure Zen V (4GB) because of Apple's stupid "Mac vs. PC" ads.

I used Macs on a daily basis this year (CS lab that met in the Mac lab), and I know how to install/configure/use Mac OS X. I also use Linux on a daily basis (multiple servers and a personal workstation), and Windows Vista.

So, when I choose to use a PC, I do it with good reason. My $110 CPU/mobo combo smokes all but the most expensive Macs. My 8600GT is way faster than any GPU you can get in any Mac excluding the huge $2200 Mac Pro. My Media Center box has 2 500GB HDDs and a 300GB HDD. You can't even put two disks in any Mac excluding the Mac Pro, let alone three.

So, when some pencil-neck kid gets up there and tells me how crappy my OS or my platform is, I get a bit pissed. I get pissed when they imply that PCs are insecure (not if you actually pay attention to what you're downloading), prone to crashing (Vista has never bluescreened on any of my PCs for any reason other than hardware failure - ever), hard to use (apparently not for the 600+ million people who use them every day), or loaded with crapware (not if you buy from a smaller reseller, build your own, or reload the OS).

Apple's like the "in" kids that some of us may remember from middle school. Apple doesn't just believe it's products are better, it believes that it's users are better. And Apple users are always quick to point out how much better they think their hardware and their OS is.

The fact is, harware is hardware. Apple's notebooks are made by the same company that makes most HP and Dell notebooks. They have the same Intel chipsets and the same Intel CPUs. In every respect except for their physical design and their lack of a traditional BIOS, they are normal PCs.

Compare Apple to HP. When was the last time you heard HP trashing Dell or Apple? It is in fact against HP corporate policy to do so. The same thing is true at Dell.

When Apple insults PCs, they insult PC users. They imply that we are boring people with nothing better to do than make spreadsheats. They imply that we are stupid for choosing the platform that gives us the most choices, best value, and broadest compatibility. They imply that their select few are smarter, more creative, and better looking. To Apple, we are the tired old workers in the worn-out suit.

I cannot buy, own, or use a product from a company that constantly trashes my choices. My computer is free of Apple hardware and free of Apple software.

Keep pushing, Apple. Microsoft and the entire PC ecosystem is welcome to have me as a customer. Apparently, you aren't.
Click to expand...

QFT!
 
I'm a big Mac fan and I hate those ads. They're snotty. They support the myth that Mac users are arrogant fools that think all PC users are idiots.

Yes, some Mac users are really like that.

Yes, some PC users really are idiots.

But sheesh! Making it official party line is annoying.

I don't agree with some of what's on that Top 10 but I know that this is the wrong place to be supporting Apple so I will just let it slide. :D
 
TechLarry said:
All reasonable assessments.
Click to expand...
I did notice a couple incorrect statements. You can upgrade more than the DIMMs in Intel Mini Macs. Both the 2.5" SATA HDD and the CPU, thet later of which is socketed, are easily upgradable.

And there are 3rd party Mac targeted Blu-ray burners available for the desktops (including the Intel Mini IIRC) and quads+. Although the query of why Apple themselves doesn't have these stands I guess you just have to look beyond the single point hardware supplier. Is that bad?
 
I had originally, many years ago, chosen a PC over a Mac for no more simple a reason than the fact that the PC offers were both cheaper and faster. (round 1995) I was in no-way irrationally adherent to any piece of the technological spectrum at the time. Being an evolved rational human being who recognized that human evolution, knowledge, health, and prosperity were directly linked to better and better tool development, I chose what was a better tool for the jobs I needed to complete.

Over my years of use, even as I did nothing to start or encourage discussions or arguments on the subject, I constantly found myself verbally assailed by individuals who with fervor beyond my understanding were rabidly seeking knowledge of if I used a PC or Mac. Namely, it didn’t matter what I used a computer for, or what I did with it that mattered to them as a first question to someone who may have hinted he works on computers, but WHAT system I was using. The quintessential majority of these questions, and I'm willing to put a number as high as 99.88% of these individuals were Mac advocates.

In turn I found myself being FORCED to go on the defensive, when originally I have, and had always opted for more choices, I was now forced into becoming a PC fundamentalist from nothing more than having my sanity ground down by the persistence of Mac Fundamentalism. I chose the world fundamentalism for a reason, in that Apple has marketed itself as a stylistic religion of sorts, seeking to inspire through form over function. And the REAL downside to this will be the huge market stall in product evolution. Products no longer need to work faster, run smoother, or be compatible with more technology than their predecessors. They just need to LOOK appealing, to provide for that inner sense of religious satisfaction in those who believe in the false notions of 'shiek style'.

In fact, to underline my proof of this paradigm, I constantly point to the reversal of user-friendly logic in Apple's terms, where it seeks to purposefully make its products as incompatible as possible, for markets sake, and then advertises that as a feature. Since VHS and Betamax, compatibility and consumer choice suffered under proprietary greed. And its understandable that companies want to make money... but there are limits, and a sector as developing as computer technology does not need Apple to throw a wrench in the machine of real progress in computing by convincing people of their religious-shiek being good enough to compensate for no compatibility in everything from its OS to its ACC audio tracks.

If Jobs really thought his OS could compete in the real world, he would have released it for publication and sale on PCs long ago. He knows he cannot compete in a progress driven economy, so he competes with market share generated by fundamentalist adherence and irrational favoritism. As well as the backward perception's of "shiek" and "cool" that so directly mimic religion, and thusly too obviously do not belong in a spectrum trying to evolve into better computing, and not adhering by the Mythology of the Mac.

Lastly, there was a notion I had had in my technologically formative years when I was learning everything about what were to be my tools of tomorrow... that notion was that in spite of this Mac Fundamentalism of its user-base, that the company itself was reasonable and a rational functioning entity that was in the game to improve the computing world all together. Whatever notion I had about this was shattered with the introduction of the television ads that have been so persistent and vile in their way of pursuing market share over greater good of the product with real improvements. So quick to criticize others on faith-based traits of appealing to the "in" crowd, that they are willing to portray anyone who does not use a Mac as a sterile, un-creative cog in the machinery of the "not-in" crowd.

Like all faiths, a sliver desperation is placed within each aspect of their adherence, and there needs to be both, a reward so irrational that it’s both un-provable and un-deniable, and a punishment that follows suit... and the Mac ads have both.

I'm willing to bet that countries more susceptible to religion like the US would far more easily adopt a Mac than countries that shed faith with respect to reason, like Japan. Respectfully, the US being the most religious of modernized countries, and Japan being the least religious of the same lot.

Thusly, being a person of reason myself, I chose to shed all notions of the Mac, in my pursuit of better tools. The Macs do have some uses, but they are so far overshadowed by the anti-Mac fundamentalism that is produced in me through their viral and untruthful marketing, that I am personally willing to resort to faith-based reasoning when selecting products for my needs. And I feel dirty, having sunk to their level.
 
When it comes to working in Photoshop or any Adobe software, I like using a Mac to do so. To me it just runs smoother. However, the one thing that I have experienced with the Mac is that it, at least for me, has crashed more often then any of my Windows based PCs at home. I haven't reinstalled XP on my desktop in almost 3 years. Runs great and have not onced recieved the BSOD. On the last G5 that I used, the motherboard died within the first week and I had to reinstall the OS about 5 times in the span of 6 months.

The claim made that Apple tends to think that their customers are smarter is very true. When the G5 that I used had the motherboard die, we sent it into Apple and they said that they could not fix it because they said, and I swear this is true, that I took a nail file to the inside and put metal shavings all over the inside of the case.

That was the last Apple product I have used.
 
The Red, I really enjoyed your post. Good stuff.

I liked this part the best, since I feel the same way!
The Red said:
In turn I found myself being FORCED to go on the defensive, when originally I have, and had always opted for more choices, I was now forced into becoming a PC fundamentalist from nothing more than having my sanity ground down by the persistence of Mac Fundamentalism.
Click to expand...
 
The Red said:
I had originally, many years ago, chosen a PC over a Mac for no more simple a reason than the fact that the PC offers were both cheaper and faster. (round 1995) I was in no-way irrationally adherent to any piece of the technological spectrum at the time. Being an evolved rational human being who recognized that human evolution, knowledge, health, and prosperity were directly linked to better and better tool development, I chose what was a better tool for the jobs I needed to complete.

Over my years of use, even as I did nothing to start or encourage discussions or arguments on the subject, I constantly found myself verbally assailed by individuals who with fervor beyond my understanding were rabidly seeking knowledge of if I used a PC or Mac. Namely, it didn’t matter what I used a computer for, or what I did with it that mattered to them as a first question to someone who may have hinted he works on computers, but WHAT system I was using. The quintessential majority of these questions, and I'm willing to put a number as high as 99.88% of these individuals were Mac advocates.

In turn I found myself being FORCED to go on the defensive, when originally I have, and had always opted for more choices, I was now forced into becoming a PC fundamentalist from nothing more than having my sanity ground down by the persistence of Mac Fundamentalism. I chose the world fundamentalism for a reason, in that Apple has marketed itself as a stylistic religion of sorts, seeking to inspire through form over function. And the REAL downside to this will be the huge market stall in product evolution. Products no longer need to work faster, run smoother, or be compatible with more technology than their predecessors. They just need to LOOK appealing, to provide for that inner sense of religious satisfaction in those who believe in the false notions of 'shiek style'.

In fact, to underline my proof of this paradigm, I constantly point to the reversal of user-friendly logic in Apple's terms, where it seeks to purposefully make its products as incompatible as possible, for markets sake, and then advertises that as a feature. Since VHS and Betamax, compatibility and consumer choice suffered under proprietary greed. And its understandable that companies want to make money... but there are limits, and a sector as developing as computer technology does not need Apple to throw a wrench in the machine of real progress in computing by convincing people of their religious-shiek being good enough to compensate for no compatibility in everything from its OS to its ACC audio tracks.

If Jobs really thought his OS could compete in the real world, he would have released it for publication and sale on PCs long ago. He knows he cannot compete in a progress driven economy, so he competes with market share generated by fundamentalist adherence and irrational favoritism. As well as the backward perception's of "shiek" and "cool" that so directly mimic religion, and thusly too obviously do not belong in a spectrum trying to evolve into better computing, and not adhering by the Mythology of the Mac.

Lastly, there was a notion I had had in my technologically formative years when I was learning everything about what were to be my tools of tomorrow... that notion was that in spite of this Mac Fundamentalism of its user-base, that the company itself was reasonable and a rational functioning entity that was in the game to improve the computing world all together. Whatever notion I had about this was shattered with the introduction of the television ads that have been so persistent and vile in their way of pursuing market share over greater good of the product with real improvements. So quick to criticize others on faith-based traits of appealing to the "in" crowd, that they are willing to portray anyone who does not use a Mac as a sterile, un-creative cog in the machinery of the "not-in" crowd.

Like all faiths, a sliver desperation is placed within each aspect of their adherence, and there needs to be both, a reward so irrational that it’s both un-provable and un-deniable, and a punishment that follows suit... and the Mac ads have both.

I'm willing to bet that countries more susceptible to religion like the US would far more easily adopt a Mac than countries that shed faith with respect to reason, like Japan. Respectfully, the US being the most religious of modernized countries, and Japan being the least religious of the same lot.

Thusly, being a person of reason myself, I chose to shed all notions of the Mac, in my pursuit of better tools. The Macs do have some uses, but they are so far overshadowed by the anti-Mac fundamentalism that is produced in me through their viral and untruthful marketing, that I am personally willing to resort to faith-based reasoning when selecting products for my needs. And I feel dirty, having sunk to their level.
Click to expand...


best post regarding a mac ever. the truth has been spoken
 
The Red: In turn I found myself being FORCED to go on the defensive, when originally I have, and had always opted for more choices, I was now forced into becoming a PC fundamentalist from nothing more than having my sanity ground down by the persistence of Mac Fundamentalism.
Click to expand...
Did it occur to you that perhaps they had felt "forced" :rolleyes: in the same way as you by crap dumped on them prior? Things such as even show up in that article by "veteran Mac users both"....or even your own post?
 
The Red said:
computer technology does not need Apple to throw a wrench in the machine of real progress in computing by convincing people of their religious-shiek being good enough to compensate for no compatibility in everything from its OS to its ACC audio tracks.
Click to expand...

Truer words have never been spoken.
 
I love the irony in the whole Mac philosophy, starting with the whole "drones watching a screen" ala original superbowl ad.... Fast forward some years, with macs you can't do too much for them, #9 even mentions.. limited selection, so you in essence are forced to follow like a sheep... on the PC side of things.. ok sure Windows isn't anything to write home about but it runs everything, you're able to build just about any potential configuration of hardware your mind comes up with from a wide variety of vendors, hell you could build a computer and submerse it in mineral oil if you want! The ultimate in freedoms.
 
Maybe it's just me, but I base my purchasing decisions based on the sheer quality of the user experience, not on a company's arrogance or immaterial downsides (i.e. the convenient argument fodder that has no real-world application for all but the hardcore niche).

I use and enjoy both types without issue.
 
i've really thought about owning an apple pc and will still never.

it's not that i hate the company's products, it's more or less, the way they try to convey a type of life style and its fans that express it. apple fans has to be one of the worst zealots out there, if you don't believe me look at digg.com as an example.

i don't even bother with that site as much as i use to, due to the fact the stories that hit front page is about apple are ridiculously retarded, even after the filters.
 
Dwight said:
Did it occur to you that perhaps they had felt "forced" :rolleyes: in the same way as you by crap dumped on them prior? Things such as even show up in that article by "veteran Mac users both"....or even your own post?
Click to expand...

Ironically it did not occur to me... but for a very simple reason... as I posted in the first diatribe, circa 99.88% of the individuals who bothered to ask me what system I was using were Mac advocates. I have no idea who upset them prior to meeting me, but they proceeded to sow irreprehensible hostility fully on their own without outside influence and it was easily noticeable that they jeered each other on themselves. Perhaps it’s their version of terrorism in the wake of an inferior ideology (read technology) that was being drowned out whole-sale by people naturally being drawn to what was then, and now a better overall tool.

I had questioned many times as to why the educational establishment here in NY adopted placing so many Macs in the classrooms, until I found out that they were originally contractually bound, and then fell victim to student anticipation of what was a standard paradigm at the time, and thusly would only hurt themselves by introducing a 2nd platform to the classroom even after the contracts had expired. Once a student leaves the classroom, he realizes that Apple is the underdog of the computing world, and associates with this idea in that a student fresh out of school himself is the biggest societal underdog outside of the impoverished who don’t share in a student’s imminent socio-economic mobility.

I have a bachelors in media-study, and have had to do plenty of work, both audio, video, and graphic design through several of the Mac platforms that were offered to my university. I'm an avid Mac user and I have worked with them both internally with setting up your basic hardware, and externally in running Python compilers on a room filled with Macs. Almost every task was no more difficult to execute than using windows and outside of slower speed they were just as functional for most tasks. But any classroom competitor could boot up his PC laptop, transfer his project in there, open up a whole new slue of programs not accessible to the Mac, add things to their project not possible to do with the Mac software package of the school, and set a bar with his grade that would drive the rest of the classroom's grades down.

In the digital media world, not having a PC leaves you S.O.L. when it comes to complexity, functionality, and multi-platform support. You can type as many news columns as you want, but I bet the editors who'd print that paper are plugging those into the main paper and html news page with PCs that run several times faster, have superior upgrade paths, and cost less, that were bought on the corporate budget with more options for non-proprietary support and consultation than you could swing your hockey puck mouse at.

The Mac neo-sheik flaunts being propagated through the university ended up congregating in journalism and graphic design which could be done on a note-pad with pens and pencils, or a type-writer and paint brush if you wanted to get fancy. The worst thing Jobs was ever able to do is sell you his re-invented proprietary version of the wheel, priced at a premium, and given a sheik white or translucent shell. For his OS he borrowed (read stole) from open-source, rebadged, and sold till he could afford more programmers to make his OS appear different.

Unlike those congregations who deem themselves free thinkers but cant get their heads out of the collective interpretation of acceptable assimilation that they share with their peers, I had to use other programs such as Maya, Premier (the one after they discontinued making it for the Mac, 3DSMax, Dreamweaver (pre-Mac version), and your MS-Office suite (pre-Mac version). Even after I would get on the older version of Premier with the Mac, the bloody thing could not take plugins designed on a PC for Premier of the same version. Same thing happened with dreamweaver and plugins once they ported that software to Macs.

So I ask, what the heck was the point of switching platforms to do different tasks when I could do everything on just a PC? My frustration was high as you could tell. I would leave the Dell machines running Maya to render for over 3 days while I edited some promo in Premier in the Mac lab, wishing that I had had access to more than one Dell at a time with my password.

And thats my point, in that all that a Mac leaves you with is wanting. They have solid programs for Audio production, but outside of that, I have been unable to find anything worthwhile, even with their interpretations of real programs like Photoshop, when you realise that the majority world over of Photoshop users dont use Macs, nor make plugins for them, it sure is a hard crash for those who have unfortunately been raised on Macs in the educational establishments of their choice. And it sure is frustrating to find out just how much slower a Mac runs the same program you have worked with for years on a PC, Bootcamp or no Bootcamp.

Lastly, the sheer versatility and complexity of a PC leaves you visibly both far more personaly satisfied and future-proof than anything a Mac could offer. I dont dare use any complex program on a Mac, out of total fear of the project colapsing due to compatibility or god forbid I would have to use more than one program to generate the project. This does not happen on my PCs, and thus it remains the better tool.
 
Prefectly said TheRed. (6:32pm EST)

That is exactly why we couldn't stand G5's with Final Cut Pro in our TV studio. The proprietary parts were killing us. Not only that, but when a crash would occur, it left no trace of an event log so we could troubleshoot the problem, and sometimes entire program files were lost with all our edit in/out points. When we needed replacement hardware boards with Genlock features, we were quoted upwards of $5000+. We called out the Mac rep and had him take back the non-linear editor, and we switched over to PC's running Canopus' EDIUS on AMD X2's. It runs much smoother and if an error occurs, it is easily troubleshot so it doesn't happen again. Hardware and plugins are 10x cheaper than with Apple, and I have much more options to choose on a PC platform. As I see it from all the other TV studios I've visited, most of the video industry has moved away from Mac and switched to PC.
 
The Red said:
<massive snip>
Lastly, the sheer versatility and complexity of a PC leaves you visibly both far more personaly satisfied and future-proof than anything a Mac could offer. I dont dare use any complex program on a Mac, out of total fear of the project colapsing due to compatibility or god forbid I would have to use more than one program to generate the project. This does not happen on my PCs, and thus it remains the better tool.
Click to expand...

Running Windows leaves you personally satisfied? It's an inferior operating system, even Anand is happy to admit that – as I recall they placed it nearly on par with Tiger, an operating system released in 2005, and soon to be replaced.

I get where you're coming from, but the vast majority of users aren't able (as you are) to slide between operating systems comfortably. Nor do they engage in deeply complicated projects on a regular basis. From that standpoint, OS X seems better option.

It's a little fallacious to attribute "versatility and complexity" to PCs, directly implying Macs are "simple". That's just not true. Also, arguing that compatibility is a major downside seems like specious reasoning to me – no kidding Mac programs aren't perfectly compatible with PC software. Turn that around, and how nicely do PC projects play with Macs?

The Red said:
...and thus it remains the better tool.
Click to expand...

I think this is telling. When I use a Mac (and OS X) the last thing I think of it is as a "tool". It's a cohesive, intuitive system. In this sense I don't think we're in disagreement: your purposes are just far more goal-oriented. If you use computers as means to an end (nothing wrong with that), then perhaps you're right. But that's not why you buy a Mac.

Anyway, arguing for Macs on [h]ard is a bit suicidal, so I think I'll stop ;)
 
Lh'owon said:
Running Windows leaves you personally satisfied? It's an inferior operating system, even Anand is happy to admit that – as I recall they placed it nearly on par with Tiger, an operating system released in 2005, and soon to be replaced.
Click to expand...

Used several Mac OSes, hated them. Your preference doesn't define superior, nor does Anand's. Despite the delusional Mac zealot's arguments I have been running WinXP for years and I can't remember the last time I had a non-hardware related crash.


Lh'owon said:
I get where you're coming from, but the vast majority of users aren't able (as you are) to slide between operating systems comfortably. Nor do they engage in deeply complicated projects on a regular basis. From that standpoint, OS X seems better option.
Click to expand...
Perhaps you should explain your reasoning because this doesn't even make sense. Anything a Mac can a do a PC can do. You don't need to swap OSes if you're using Windows.

Lh'owon said:
It's a little fallacious to attribute "versatility and complexity" to PCs, directly implying Macs are "simple". That's just not true. Also, arguing that compatibility is a major downside seems like specious reasoning to me – no kidding Mac programs aren't perfectly compatible with PC software. Turn that around, and how nicely do PC projects play with Macs?
Click to expand...
Perhaps I should design my own insignificant OS and use the fact that no current software runs on it as reasoning that both OS X and Vista are inferior? The vast vast vast majority of software doesn't run on Apple OSes, a very very very small minority does. That's the point. The fact that OS X software doesn't run on PCs (the .1% of software that hasn't been ported already, or more likely, was ported from Windows) means nothing.



Lh'owon said:
I think this is telling. When I use a Mac (and OS X) the last thing I think of it is as a "tool". It's a cohesive, intuitive system. In this sense I don't think we're in disagreement: your purposes are just far more goal-oriented. If you use computers as means to an end (nothing wrong with that), then perhaps you're right. But that's not why you buy a Mac.
Click to expand...
This is the typical Mac user argument that is designed as a unarguable point because it really means nothing at all. There's nothing to argue here. All you've said is "If you WANT your PC to be useful, sure, go with Windows, otherwise a Mac is the way to go." It's a complete cop-out.


Step back and read your post. It's the typical pro-Mac arguments which in the end really amount to nothing more then "I don't like Microsoft.".
 
I thought I was nice about it, but apparently not.

Nemesis999 said:
Used several Mac OSes, hated them. Your preference doesn't define superior, nor does Anand's. Despite the delusional Mac zealot's arguments I have been running WinXP for years and I can't remember the last time I had a non-hardware related crash.
Click to expand...

Your 'argument' runs:

(a) Your experience with and opinion of OS X, as well as Anandtech's, is meaningless, as it is merely an opinion.

(b) My opinion of OS X is completely vindicated because I run XP and it hasn't crashed.

(c) Therefore, I am right and you are wrong.

Seriously, what are you on about? That doesn't make the least bit of sense. I find it especially amusing that you defended Windows over stability issues when I hadn't even mentioned crashes!


Nemesis999 said:
Perhaps you should explain your reasoning because this doesn't even make sense.
Click to expand...

I was simply referring to The Red's extensive use of both operating systems, and that, in my opinion, most users don't have that luxury; again, in my opinion, I feel OS X is the better all-round operating system.

Nemesis999 said:
Anything a Mac can a do a PC can do. You don't need to swap OSes if you're using Windows.
Click to expand...

Possibly, but here's the trouble: Windows sucks. ;)

Nemesis999 said:
Perhaps I should design my own insignificant OS and use the fact that no current software runs on it as reasoning that both OS X and Vista are inferior? The vast vast vast majority of software doesn't run on Apple OSes, a very very very small minority does. That's the point. The fact that OS X software doesn't run on PCs (the .1% of software that hasn't been ported already, or more likely, was ported from Windows) means nothing.
Click to expand...

That's so full of BS it's almost not worth answering. The statistical amount of software means nothing, and you know it. The fact is, you can do virtually anything you would want to do on a PC on a Mac. That's the point.

Nemesis999 said:
This is the typical Mac user argument that is designed as a unarguable point because it really means nothing at all. There's nothing to argue here. All you've said is "If you WANT your PC to be useful, sure, go with Windows, otherwise a Mac is the way to go." It's a complete cop-out.
Click to expand...

Well phrased like that, sure. But you completely fail to see my main point. Let me rephrase that for you:

"If you NEED to do a highly specific task for a specific goal, and a PC will offer a better method of doing so, then go with Windows. Otherwise, if you want a superior operating system for day-to-day use (as well as 99% of other tasks, complex or not) then go with Mac."

Nemesis999 said:
Step back and read your post. It's the typical pro-Mac arguments which in the end really amount to nothing more then "I don't like Microsoft.".
Click to expand...

If you're going to be that aggressive at least have some substance to your arguments, or have an argument at all. That's the second time you've put words in my mouth. I never said I didn't like Microsoft. You really like the word "typical" don't you? It's arrogant, dismissive, and contributes nothing.
 
Lh'owon said:
I thought I was nice about it, but apparently not.
Your 'argument' runs:

(a) Your experience with and opinion of OS X, as well as Anandtech's, is meaningless, as it is merely an opinion.

(b) My opinion of OS X is completely vindicated because I run XP and it hasn't crashed.

(c) Therefore, I am right and you are wrong.

Seriously, what are you on about? That doesn't make the least bit of sense. I find it especially amusing that you defended Windows over stability issues when I hadn't even mentioned crashes!
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Read again? All I said was the fact that you prefer an OS doesn't make it the superior choice.


Lh'owon said:
That's so full of BS it's almost not worth answering. The statistical amount of software means nothing, and you know it. The fact is, you can do virtually anything you would want to do on a PC on a Mac. That's the point.
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The point was, it's not the vast majority's job to make everything work for the tiny minority. Apple actively chooses to keep the systems incompatible. You're the one that pointed out that PCs don't play well with Macs.


Lh'owon said:
Well phrased like that, sure. But you completely fail to see my main point. Let me rephrase that for you:
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If you have to play politics with words to get them to mean something not totally negative, is it even worth arguing? XP does everything I've ever wanted it to smoothly and without issue. Someone else's inability to use a Windows doesn't make it inferior, (Which is why Apple pushes for the incompetence demographic so often, I guess), it just makes for a poor user. It's no different then claiming that automatic is superior to manual because any idiot can drive automatic.





Lh'owon said:
You really like the word "typical" don't you? It's arrogant, dismissive, and contributes nothing.
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Don't forget accurate. Your arguments were the same hot-air Apple arguments you see everywhere, typical accurately described them.

P.S. I hardly think using a word twice counts as 'really liking'.
 
The Red said:
Ironically it did not occur to me... but for a very simple reason... as I posted in the first diatribe, circa 99.88% of the individuals who bothered to ask me what system I was using were Mac advocates.
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:rolleyes: There was this amazing correlation and it didn't occur to you to investigate the root cause of it further? Just write off a group of people and push back with a bunch of rhetoric of your own? That says to me the true "simple reason" reason is you turned off your brain.

P.S. That 99.88% wouldn't happen to have been one of the the 87% of all numerical facts that are made up on the spot? Because that implies that you were approached unsolicited by over 800 people (assuming only one of them was of the PC variety). As in one per day each and every day for about 2 and a half years. If so I'd really like to know WTF you hang out because I have no recollection of that EVER occuring to me. It isn't like I've had a couple of clean-cut fellows come to my door asking if I'd like some free literature, handing me a copy of Macworld.

QFT? Yeah right.
 
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Lh'owon said:
If you NEED to do a highly specific task for a specific goal, and a PC will offer a better method of doing so, then go with Windows. Otherwise, if you want a superior operating system for day-to-day use (as well as 99% of other tasks, complex or not) then go with Mac.
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You Macboys are not shielded when you leave your Apple subforum/quarantine..so prepare for an argument when you try and spread your propaganda to other subforums

Explain how OSX is superior for day-to-day use? Please don't give that same old "virii" reason.. you can get that with Linux.

Also, Why would anyone pay a price premium to get "superior" e-mail and webbrowsing?
 
osalcido said:
You Macboys are not shielded when you leave your Apple subforum/quarantine..so prepare for an argument when you try and spread your propaganda to other subforums

Explain how OSX is superior for day-to-day use? Please don't give that same old "virii" reason.. you can get that with Linux.

Also, Why would anyone pay a price premium to get "superior" e-mail and webbrowsing?
Click to expand...

So, let me get you straight. I'm a "Macboy" who needs to get back to his quarantine – an infectious specimen if you will – waging a war of propaganda across the gulfs of the interweb.

As charmingly phrased as your offer of debate was, I must decline. Arguing with bigots is a futile exercise.
 
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