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Creative has officially anounced X-Fi product variants on Soundblaster.com

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thomase

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The 2 higher-end models of the 4 have a featuer called X-RAM which is supposed to further increase performance. I have no idea what this is, but I guess we'll find out more at QuakeCon later this week, where Fatal1ty will probably be promoting it.

The only thing that I can think of regarding X-RAM, is that perhaps it is some onboard storage for audio samples so that you don't have to keep transfering them over the bus if you want to play the same sound effect multiple times. However, I'm not sure how you could get this to work transparently without any programmer support, so this probably isn't it....
 
thomase said:
The 2 higher-end models of the 4 have a featuer called X-RAM which is supposed to further increase performance. I have no idea what this is, but I guess we'll find out more at QuakeCon later this week, where Fatal1ty will probably be promoting it.

The only thing that I can think of regarding X-RAM, is that perhaps it is some onboard storage for audio samples so that you don't have to keep transfering them over the bus if you want to play the same sound effect multiple times. However, I'm not sure how you could get this to work transparently without any programmer support, so this probably isn't it....
Click to expand...


http://www.soundblaster.com/products/X-Fi/technology/audiosolutions/introduction.asp

Donnie27
 
There is a press release as well.

Its interesting that they are marketing the CMSS-3D Headphone mode so aggresively. I wonder if this will have a significant dampening effect on the sale of cheap "5.1" headphones?
 
thomase said:
There is a press release as well.

Its interesting that they are marketing the CMSS-3D Headphone mode so aggresively. I wonder if this will have a significant dampening effect on the sale of cheap "5.1" headphones?
Click to expand...

IMHO, I think they have more to worry about witht he Expensive Sony and etc. 5.1 Headphones. The Zalmans and other cheap ones sound terrible for anything but games. I'm shocked they haven't pushed CMSS-3D as much but that'd hurt their own speakers as well so I think they have their reasons.

Hell dewd, even my so so Philips HP 890 Headphones sounds good doing CMSS-3D, with not only Half Life 2, but also with BF2 and Painkiller BooH.

Donnie27
 
Donnie27 said:
Hell dewd, even my so so Philips HP 890 Headphones sounds good doing CMSS-3D, with not only Half Life 2, but also with BF2 and Painkiller BooH.
Click to expand...

I hope you are using the "unsynch speaker settings" trick with HL2, because if you are not, any surround effect you hear over headphones is likely to be placebo.

Regrading the Dolby Headphone stuff, this is a point of concern. I'm of the opinion that since Dolby Headphone includes a room impulse response (ie. it tries to simulate the echos and reverberation of a movie theater), it is not ideal for PC gaming. With PC gaming, you want to simulate the echos and reverberation of the virtual game enviroment - NOT the movie theater. The Dolby PC initiative concerns me because I fear that as part of this initiative, Dolby Headphone will be positioned as an alternative to REAL 3D auralization through technologies like EAX and CMSS-3D.

However, for the time being, until this stuff is integrated with PC games (which it might not be), I don't consider Dolby Headphone a threat because it is indeed expensive (not counting software Dolby Headphone modes included with software DVD players, which is only valid for movies anyway). The only options now are to buy the cheapest Thrustmaster T510 (targeted for game consoles BTW), a more expensive wireless Sony or Pioneer set, or a $250+ receiver with Dolby Headphone built-in so you can use your own headphones. You'll also need a DDLive card (or the new Creative DTS-610) to get digital 5.1 output. Its a klunky way to go when you can just get better results with an X-Fi for $129.
 
Maybe they have decided to push CMSS-3D more because of fear of competition from Dolby Headphone...
 
thomase said:
I hope you are using the "unsynch speaker settings" trick with HL2, because if you are not, any surround effect you hear over headphones is likely to be placebo.
Click to expand...

YES! A bud got just about all of the settings down.

Regrading the Dolby Headphone stuff, this is a point of concern. I'm of the opinion that since Dolby Headphone includes a room impulse response (ie. it tries to simulate the echos and reverberation of a movie theater), it is not ideal for PC gaming. With PC gaming, you want to simulate the echos and reverberation of the virtual game enviroment - NOT the movie theater. The Dolby PC initiative concerns me because I fear that as part of this initiative, Dolby Headphone will be positioned as an alternative to REAL 3D auralization through technologies like EAX and CMSS-3D.
Click to expand...

But as long as they didn't try to implement too much of echos and reverbs, or make it over the top, would this ad more realistic sounds?

However, for the time being, until this stuff is integrated with PC games (which it might not be), I don't consider Dolby Headphone a threat because it is indeed expensive (not counting software Dolby Headphone modes included with software DVD players, which is only valid for movies anyway). The only options now are to buy the cheapest Thrustmaster T510 (targeted for game consoles BTW), a more expensive wireless Sony or Pioneer set, or a $250+ receiver with Dolby Headphone built-in so you can use your own headphones. You'll also need a DDLive card (or the new Creative DTS-610) to get digital 5.1 output. Its a klunky way to go when you can just get better results with an X-Fi for $129.
Click to expand...

Seen anything about digital out on the X-Fi? But we know Sony folks will buy it and MaxPC didn't review them for nothing. The other Dolby features and Headphones part of Azalia also gave Creative a reason to get off its ass. $129 might be a little High for the based card.

Donnie27
 
From the article:

"Creative is also currently developing X-Fi branded speakers and headphones that will have built-in X-Fi technology that can process normal, incoming audio streams and enhance audio on the fly."

Such products would be well-positioned against Dolby Headphone and Dolby Virtual Spekaer in the console and/or home theater market. Still, I think I'd rather have some kind of standalone device to which I can connect any headphones or speakers, rather than something with headphones and/or speakers built-in.

Also, it looks like I was somewhat right about X-RAM:

"The Elite Pro and the Fatal1ty cards also have 64MB of RAM onboard. The sound card memory can store audio files that would otherwise take up space in system memory and eat up CPU time if compression is used. The memory will also let the cards support up to 128 simultaneous voices, or distinct sounds. EA's Battlefield 2 is one of the first games that will take advantage of the X-Fi's onboard memory and 128-voice support."

1.) I was hoping (and still am) that the more expensive version with X-RAM is not required for 128 voice support.
2.) Maybe use of X-RAM WILL require developer support?
 
Donnie27 said:
But as long as they didn't try to implement too much of echos and reverbs, or make it over the top, would this ad more realistic sounds?
Click to expand...

I guess it would be better than nothing, which I suppose is your point. But, it would still be BETTER to have EAX + CMSS-3D.
 
hm... well this baby sound pretty promising, we can only wait and see when the product finally hits the shelves
 
thomase said:
From the article:

"Creative is also currently developing X-Fi branded speakers and headphones that will have built-in X-Fi technology that can process normal, incoming audio streams and enhance audio on the fly."

Such products would be well-positioned against Dolby Headphone and Dolby Virtual Spekaer in the console and/or home theater market. Still, I think I'd rather have some kind of standalone device to which I can connect any headphones or speakers, rather than something with headphones and/or speakers built-in.

Also, it looks like I was somewhat right about X-RAM:

"The Elite Pro and the Fatal1ty cards also have 64MB of RAM onboard. The sound card memory can store audio files that would otherwise take up space in system memory and eat up CPU time if compression is used. The memory will also let the cards support up to 128 simultaneous voices, or distinct sounds. EA's Battlefield 2 is one of the first games that will take advantage of the X-Fi's onboard memory and 128-voice support."

1.) I was hoping (and still am) that the more expensive version with X-RAM is not required for 128 voice support.
2.) Maybe use of X-RAM WILL require developer support?
Click to expand...

They do make it sound like 128 voices will cause a hit if you don't have the RAM versions. It'll simply fall back to 64 as EAX falls back to EAX 2 when the system can't processor 3 or 4.

Maybe the basic card will do 128 but cause a hit? The *upsample features, (used correctly here, hehehe), also interests me some. I have some older Albums and Cassettes that could see some improvement . Some of my old WAVE amd MP3 files were so bad, I deleted them from the HDD.

I also like the mode switching to optimize the Card/s for Games, Music Creation and etc..

Donnie27
 
looks interesting cant wait to see some reviews.. :)

*itching for new hardware*... :eek:
 
I think the 128-voice is feature is dependent on processing power rather than on-board memory. I'm guessing that the article just got the issue confused because they are associating "simultaneous voices" with "audio files".

The memory will probably be used to locally store sound effects that will be repeated frequently in order to avoid sending them to the card over and over again.
 
thomase said:
I think the 128-voice is feature is dependent on processing power rather than on-board memory. I'm guessing that the article just got the issue confused because they are associating "simultaneous voices" with "audio files".

The memory will probably be used to locally store sound effects that will be repeated frequently in order to avoid sending them to the card over and over again.
Click to expand...

Hey you're right, I missed that, thanks.

Donnie27
 
i'm interested in how this card will turn mp3's which are in stereo into multichannel surround sound.

"CMSS-3D converts any static stereo music into amazing surround sound on your headphones or multichannel speakers"

any thought?
 
I still don't know why the DD Live is so slow to catch on...it pisses me off that 3 analog connections are needed. I dream of a day when 1 cable attaches power, video, audio, network, usb, firewire, ps/2, watercooling tubes, parallel, serial, and hot coffee!!! That my friends would be true innovation!
 
FastBu said:
i'm interested in how this card will turn mp3's which are in stereo into multichannel surround sound.

"CMSS-3D converts any static stereo music into amazing surround sound on your headphones or multichannel speakers"

any thought?
Click to expand...

Something similar to Prologic and/or the older version of CMSS which would derive surround channels from the original stereo signal.
 
That breakout box on the Elite Pro model looks interesting. I count 6 smaller knobs and a larger (presumably Volume) knob. Looks like they improved the design of the remote too, I remember the Audigy Plat. remote being feather-light and falling off my desk every other minute.
 
Did anyone else do a big finger twirl?

I'm not one bit impressed. No DDL? WTH?


ninja edit:

Anyone else feel like audio has been on the innovative decline (in 3D surround/game tech) since Aureal's A3D 2.0? :)
 
Stanley Pain said:
Did anyone else do a big finger twirl?

I'm not one bit impressed. No DDL? WTH?


ninja edit:

Anyone else feel like audio has been on the innovative decline (in 3D surround/game tech) since Aureal's A3D 2.0? :)
Click to expand...

ONCE AGAIN.. DDL has nothing to do with "3D surround/game tech" as you call it. It is simply a transport mechanism to get digital audio from point A to point B. It will be superceded when Windows Vista comes around with required HDCP (sp?) audio/video connections.
 
Stanley Pain said:
ninja edit:

Anyone else feel like audio has been on the innovative decline (in 3D surround/game tech) since Aureal's A3D 2.0? :)
Click to expand...

There have been steps forward, at a slow pace. Add in the steps backwards taken by Creatives poor drivers and poor driver packaging and it's almost a standstill in my book.
 
Is anyone else bothered that they still do not put an RF remote in even with these cards being pricey as hell? I think non-RF remotes are pretty worthless as I rarely have direct line of site to my computer when not sitting right at it.
 
If there is substance behind creative's claims for this new architecture, I think we are about to see a change the likes of nVidia's leap from TNT to GeForce. The increase in transistor count and raw throughput is staggering.
 
I could see the XRam thing being of significant use. Think of the PCI bus bandwidth that could be saved by caching the files on the card instead of having to access system memory all the time. You could essentially play a ton of different sound files without having to touch the PCI bus much at all. Freeing up the bus/memory bandwidth for other uses.

In theory it would even boost FPS just by removing the hit to certain parts of the computer. I really wish they'd make the memory an optional add in. Sort of put a slot on the card similar to some RAID controllers and make it use PC100 or PC133 etc. Something that's not necessarily the newest thing on the market but almost every hardware guy has an extra stick of laying around somewhere they could drop in there. It could also allow much more than 64mb to be used. Most games don't need more than 64mb of memory for audio files but if you stored them in uncompressed formats etc it could give a nice benefit.
 
Anarchist4000: said:
In theory it would even boost FPS just by removing the hit to certain parts of the computer. I really wish they'd make the memory an optional add in. Sort of put a slot on the card similar to some RAID controllers and make it use PC100 or PC133 etc. Something that's not necessarily the newest thing on the market but almost every hardware guy has an extra stick of laying around somewhere they could drop in there. It could also allow much more than 64mb to be used. Most games don't need more than 64mb of memory for audio files but if you stored them in uncompressed formats etc it could give a nice benefit.
Click to expand...
There used to be Sound Blaster cards from the 90s that came with expandable memory for storing sounds. The original purpose was to significantly improve the sound repertoire a computer was capable of producing. It is nothing new if that's all it does, but if it actually boosts performance as Creative claims then it is very good they decided to reimplement onboard memory for their sound cards.
 
thomase said:
ONCE AGAIN.. DDL has nothing to do with "3D surround/game tech" as you call it. It is simply a transport mechanism to get digital audio from point A to point B. It will be superceded when Windows Vista comes around with required HDCP (sp?) audio/video connections.
Click to expand...

I know that DDL is a "transport mechanism" as you put it :). But it makes playing games with a 5.1 setup that much more enjoyable, since sounds are properly placed to the speakers where the sound came from. Nothing beats headphones for positional audio.

I'm still not impressed with the X-FI :p
 
now maybe I'll get to hear if there really is any diff in the X-FI setting for BF-2
 
Looks like plain old PCI to me. I thought they were going to release a PCI Express card?

Well, from what I read in the included links on this thread, Creative is going to send their X Fi chips to add-in partners, like ATI and nVidia do with their video cards. This means we could very well see many variations in the sound cards, different bundles, and perhaps even a PCI express model. Might as well make use of those x1 and x4 slots that no one uses now.
 
No DDL again ? Cant hook it to my receiver and get eax to 5.1 conversion ? I will pass again. Nothing has even come close to the Soundstorm for me. That was the card ! Im gonna rip the soundstorm chip off of my old mobo and make a card damnit !
 
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