Creative has officially anounced X-Fi product variants on Soundblaster.com

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J-Mag said:
Creative is actually on the right track when it comes to business sense.

It used to be that computers were only used for business or in a niche market and 10 years ago you didn't really see a huge number of 20 to 30 year olds playing video games. Now this is not the case. Well what do these 20-30 year olds who grew up playing Video Games (the first generation) have? Money.

it is now feasable to creating a gaming card at a high price point (relative to the market competition), because there are more people out there who have disposable income in creative's previous "niche" market (as I believe it is now mass market appeal).
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Dewd! I'm 48. I started playing games on an Atari 2600, that I still have BTW, and PinBalls long before that. I still have fond memories that "SSsnoCK/Tock" ( the sound was a blending of Sock and s knock) sound the HomeRun Game made when you hit the Grand slam and won a Free Game, "Sure plays a mean pinball". Sorry I lost it there. There are stories of Grandmas and Grandpas telling the kids not visit, they're busy at a LAN party. I'll be a first person shooter until my reflexes don't work, then I'll go the RTS LOL!

One night on an America's Army Server the Ages ranged from 16 to 59. A 43 year old was top gun and next was an 18 year old.

Donnie27
 
BO(V)BZ said:
BOf course, each company runs the risk of pricing themselves out of their own respective business. Graphics cards are a much easier sell than sound cards, and how many people are going to decide that onboard isn't that big of a loss compared to a 300$ 'gamer edition' sound card?
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I personally would much rather blow 300 on a new video card. At least sound cards have a longer shelf life. I really dont need to upgrade (Audigy 1) at all, whereas we are forced to with graphics.
 
thomase said:
The way you talk about "bit rates & sampling" betrays the fact that you don't really have a clue about how all this shit works. Really though, the problem with computer audio is that very few people do.
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Please correct me on what I said that was wrong... There's really no need to insult ppl. I am not a physicist but I do like to hear good game audio and I think i know a little bit about what constitutes it.

I concur that it's not the X-Fi *hardware* that's solving these problems with the APIs like lack of LFE support. I know the difference between pre-rendered and dynamic content. What I am saying is that Creative spending a bundle of money on R&D, new developer tools, and marketing for the X-Fi, and then as others point out, licensing the hardware, should overall improve the state of *development* for 3D audio.

On bitrates and upsampling, I know that the music is recorded at low bitrates and then played back at 16/44.1, but there is some believe that 24/96 playback would give more pleasing sound, is there not?
 
MadSkills said:
Please correct me on what I said that was wrong... There's really no need to insult ppl. I am not a physicist but I do like to hear good game audio and I think i know a little bit about what constitutes it.

I concur that it's not the X-Fi *hardware* that's solving these problems with the APIs like lack of LFE support. I know the difference between pre-rendered and dynamic content. What I am saying is that Creative spending a bundle of money on R&D, new developer tools, and marketing for the X-Fi, and then as others point out, licensing the hardware, should overall improve the state of *development* for 3D audio.

On bitrates and upsampling, I know that the music is recorded at low bitrates and then played back at 16/44.1, but there is some believe that 24/96 playback would give more pleasing sound, is there not?
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Sorry. I'm getting a little burned out on this thread and I was generally in a bad mood when I made that post.

If you were suggesting that developers use lower bit resolution and sampling rates to reduce the CPU and PCI bus bandwidth requirements, and that onboard RAM would allow the use of higher quality samples without having to worry about sending them to the card repeatedly, then you have a a point.
 
deathBOB said:
I personally would much rather blow 300 on a new video card. At least sound cards have a longer shelf life. I really dont need to upgrade (Audigy 1) at all, whereas we are forced to with graphics.
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I had an Audigy 1 and upgraded to an Audigy 2. Added an Audigy 2ZS when my Current system needed a Sound Card. I'd easily make the same move if given a do-over. $39 refurb Audigy 2 ZS makes that an easy upgrade to make.

Donnie27
 
Donnie27 said:
I had an Audigy 1 and upgraded to an Audigy 2. Added an Audigy 2ZS when my Current system needed a Sound Card. I'd easily make the same move if given a do-over. $39 refurb Audigy 2 ZS makes that an easy upgrade to make.

Donnie27
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dude, do you work for creative or something... u love this company hardcore
 
bitgod said:
Well these are list prices too, you won't have to pay that much unless you're getting it from Best Buy.
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Not even at Best Buy. Get real, folks; you think BB *never* discounts? BB discounts, and discounts computer hardware pretty darn regularly. *Especially* Creative. I picked up my Audigy 2 ZS Gamer LE for fifteen percent off retail. *At Best Buy.* These days, there are darn few retailers that can afford NOT to discount from SRP and stay in business. And Best Buy is NOT one of them. When the X-Fi hits BB's warehouses, espect the existing Audigy 2/Audigy 4 lines to get seriously fire-saled (especially the non-ZS Audigy 2s still in the warehouses). From the reputation Creative has, you would think they were *Sony*, for crying out loud! (And none other than the same Best Buy is in the tail-end of the biggest Sony TV sale in history. Not merely BB's history, but *Sony's* history. And it was an *unannounced* sale.) And for what it's worth, you actually stand less change paying SRP at BB than, say, *Office Depot*.
 
mjz_5 said:
dude, do you work for creative or something... u love this company hardcore
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Likely because Creative's hardware does what he needs it to do inexpensively compared to the competition?

Audio acceleration in hardware is pretty much Creative's exclusively. (Because of lack of support for EAX 3 or better, or even support for DTS or DD decoding in hardware, nForce 4 does *not* do that without loading the CPU.) Dolby Digital Live is a useful checkbox because (surprise, surprise) most source material is *not* pre-encoded to support Dolby Digital. If it were, *any* DD decoder could handle it (including the DD decoding support designed into every Audigy 2 and ZS). CMSS, on the other hand, is scalable (from headphones to 7.1 speaker setups) and can be implemented either in the recording or via post-processing (without modification of the source, unlike Dolby Digital Live, which *must* be decoded to be made use of). CMSS does not require encoding *or* decoding to be used, even though both are options. One of my own major uses for CMSS is, unsurprisingly, MP3 and video playback (not through headphones, but through my Inspire 5300 5.1 speakers); however, another major use is watching TV; mostly HDTV, much of which *is* encoded in Dolby Digital (MLB on FOX, for example). Thanks to EAX/CMSS for Media Center, I can now decode *any* HD source material's DD encoding right at my PC. And did I mention that Creative provides the add-in free?

And because CMSS can be implemented as straight post-processing (without worrying about either source changes or even *encoding lag*, as the processing is done entirely in the sound card itself, and is accelerated therein) it becomes darn near a *free lunch* (the loss, if any, from post-processing, will be invariably a heck of a lot smaller than Dolby Digital Live encoding, especially if the encoding mechanism is *not* hardware-accelerated).
 
Creative's drivers have sucked for a long time, not to mention the LOOOOONG period between updates.

I have, and still have, the Audigy 1 gamer, using the hacked Audigy 2 drivers. Did it a long time ago, back when it was quite a chore to make them work right. I'm pretty satisfied with it, but I won't buy this X-Fi from Creative unless they put it out in PCI Express format. Even then, if they are selling the chip to AIB partners, I may buy from someone else. I wonder who the AIB's are going to be??? Sapphire, BFG, FIC, Abit, Asus?? It'll be interesting to see what they come up with in terms of driver support and bundled accessories.
 
Scroatdog said:
Creative's drivers have sucked for a long time, not to mention the LOOOOONG period between updates.

I have, and still have, the Audigy 1 gamer, using the hacked Audigy 2 drivers. Did it a long time ago, back when it was quite a chore to make them work right. I'm pretty satisfied with it, but I won't buy this X-Fi from Creative unless they put it out in PCI Express format. Even then, if they are selling the chip to AIB partners, I may buy from someone else. I wonder who the AIB's are going to be??? Sapphire, BFG, FIC, Abit, Asus?? It'll be interesting to see what they come up with in terms of driver support and bundled accessories.
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The drivers they have now don't suck, even if users screw up installs. It seemed kind of funny that my Creative problems stopped when, I stopped using Craptacular chipsets of THOSE DAYS. Current ones (chipsets) DON'T have problems like the old ones did. My Audigy 1 sucked compared to the 2/ 2 ZS drivers and hardware wise. I have my 25% off ticket from creative to prove it.

Last but not least, the Audigy Drivers are just as good if not better than than the competition. At least settings stick (don't have to reset after each reboot) and there are working Final 64bit drivers. Last time someone made crazy statements like these, Mister X got me for not staying on Subject.

Donnie27
 
mjz_5 said:
dude, do you work for creative or something... u love this company hardcore
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Thanks dewd, do you work for High-Tec or Bluegears? How about M-Audio?

Donnie27
 
lol... this thread has been pretty far off topic for a while so have at it. ;)
 
PGHammer said:
Likely because Creative's hardware does what he needs it to do inexpensively compared to the competition?

Audio acceleration in hardware is pretty much Creative's exclusively. (Because of lack of support for EAX 3 or better, or even support for DTS or DD decoding in hardware, nForce 4 does *not* do that without loading the CPU.) Dolby Digital Live is a useful checkbox because (surprise, surprise) most source material is *not* pre-encoded to support Dolby Digital. If it were, *any* DD decoder could handle it (including the DD decoding support designed into every Audigy 2 and ZS). CMSS, on the other hand, is scalable (from headphones to 7.1 speaker setups) and can be implemented either in the recording or via post-processing (without modification of the source, unlike Dolby Digital Live, which *must* be decoded to be made use of). CMSS does not require encoding *or* decoding to be used, even though both are options. One of my own major uses for CMSS is, unsurprisingly, MP3 and video playback (not through headphones, but through my Inspire 5300 5.1 speakers); however, another major use is watching TV; mostly HDTV, much of which *is* encoded in Dolby Digital (MLB on FOX, for example). Thanks to EAX/CMSS for Media Center, I can now decode *any* HD source material's DD encoding right at my PC. And did I mention that Creative provides the add-in free?

And because CMSS can be implemented as straight post-processing (without worrying about either source changes or even *encoding lag*, as the processing is done entirely in the sound card itself, and is accelerated therein) it becomes darn near a *free lunch* (the loss, if any, from post-processing, will be invariably a heck of a lot smaller than Dolby Digital Live encoding, especially if the encoding mechanism is *not* hardware-accelerated).
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AMen Brother preach on!!!! The sad part is eventhough most of this software works and works well, many folks listens the "Don't Install Creative's Bloatware Gang". The software gives a minimal install option and works much better than hunting and pecking, then ending up with an Half-assed installed card. THere was one thread where some folks were calling it Spyware LOL! Folks listening to this group have Audigy cards and have NEVER heard what EAX3/4-HD actually sounds like. They don't know about CMSS or how powerful it is!

Speaker Cal always finding speakers not connected correctly is the main bug I found.

Donnie27
 
DaRkF0g said:
I think he likes them because they are affordable. I KNOW he hated the Audigy 1 though :D
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You got it! Still like TB Santa Cruz and even my old Hercules MUSE 5.1.

Donnie27
 
Donnie27 said:
The drivers they have now don't suck, even if users screw up installs. It seemed kind of funny that my Creative problems stopped when, I stopped using Craptacular chipsets of THOSE DAYS. Current ones (chipsets) DON'T have problems like the old ones did. My Audigy 1 sucked compared to the 2/ 2 ZS drivers and hardware wise. I have my 25% off ticket from creative to prove it.

Last but not least, the Audigy Drivers are just as good if not better than than the competition. At least settings stick (don't have to reset after each reboot) and there are working Final 64bit drivers. Last time someone made crazy statements like these, Mister X got me for not staying on Subject.

Donnie27
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creative drivers are amazing? What!! Okay, first

- install drivers from the cd that came with the card
- download 7 updates from the web
- decipher the order of installation
- reboot your machine 7 times..

I don't know about you, but that's bs

my audigy 1 did not work on my via kt133a chipset.. i also couldn't use my audigy2zs front panel because it caused sound interference. had to unplug the very expensive platinum drive bay
 
mjz_5 said:
my audigy 1 did not work on my via kt133a chipset..
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The source of your problem was not the audigy, but the via shitset.. there was a HUGE know problem with the kt133a's southbridge (686B IIRC).. Via did not adhere to the PCI specs, which caused massive problems with the hard driver controller and audio devices..


Now, to be fair, I've owned pretty much every Creative card in the last 10 years almost.. Only deviating to get the MX300.. sigh.. that thing was sweet.. sold off my Live for it..

But I had a SB16, AWE32, AWE64, Live, Audigy, Audigy2 ZS.. and I NEVER, EVER had a problem with these cards...

Quite frankly, my audigy 2 ZS paired even with the "lowly" Inspire 7700's, is an amazing experience with a game like HL2 that uses 7.1 audio.. The 3d positioning is extremely good, and accurate, and the sound quality continues to surprise me for the price point that this setup cost..

And I have a very high end home theater, so I know what good audio sounds like.. and the audigy 2 ZS w/ 7.1 speakers sounds damn good for costing less than $300..

Am I saying the X-Fi is going to be worth the money? who knows.. we'll have to see what it can do.. But I'm not opposed to paying good money for a quality product.. My only gripe so far, is not selling an X-Ram version without the live drive.. I have no use for one, since I don't do any recording on my box.. atleast not enuff to warrant the live drive.. the line-in jack suits my needs..

If they made that change, and dropped the price to reflect that, then I think it'd have a chance of being a hot deal.. As of now, it better make everything sound like angel's having sex for it's price point.. ;)
 
mjz_5 said:
creative drivers are amazing? What!! Okay, first

- install drivers from the cd that came with the card
- download 7 updates from the web
- decipher the order of installation
- reboot your machine 7 times..

I don't know about you, but that's bs

my audigy 1 did not work on my via kt133a chipset.. i also couldn't use my audigy2zs front panel because it caused sound interference. had to unplug the very expensive platinum drive bay
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Copy and paste where I said "creative drivers are amazing"?

My Abit KT7A Rev 1 was a POS and this is a perfect example of folks using Creative for other Craptacular hardware (or excuses for there of). It choked on everything but But my Hercules MUSE, that only acted as a Conduet for CPU processing LOL! The Same cards that wouldn't run on 686B, even worked on my old ECS 7KSA. From there it worked on i815, i850, i850E, i865 and i875 and last but not least my bud's nForce 2. My bud's dumpped their nVidia onboard stuff for Audigy2 and A 2 ZS.

George Breeze's patch didn't fixed the hiccups in the PCI bus on 686B. I can't believe anyone would blame Creative for those VIA series of rip-offs. Have seen Audigy 2 ZS work on VIA 880 with Sc-939 and all nForce 3 and 4s.

The Audigy 1 sucked and is not on my list of hardware to use. In fact, I advise folks I know to stay away from them. Like I tried to do here, ask those with them dump them.

Audigy 2 and 2 ZS have much improved drivers over Audigy1, with 2 ZS having the best. These also be found SlipScreened (Updates already added).

Hacked drivers? There are hardware parts of the Auidgy 2 and 2 ZS that are missing from the Audigy 1. First Audigy 1 has a Versa Jack, this is separate on the A2 2 ZS. Software trying to enabled this have caused some folks BSODs. Audigy 1 doesn't feature an MLP chip, not 6.1 or 7.1 as well. This software controls HARDWARE Controllers, if the Hardware is missing, BSOD again. Same goes for Buffers and Filters that are missing from Audigy 1 as well. Can't Connect Digital and Analog at the same time, with A1 it is either or.

Installing the Drivers from Creative disc is pretty simple. Turn off Anti-Virus software. Pick to only install the card + Drivers and the getting started Demo (until you learn how to use the card's features then un-install it). The card offers a minimal install and then you simply use the Auto update. You need at least install Audio HQ, Media Players and the Surround Mixer. These will hose Speaker, Controllers, Sound Effects like EAX and etc.... It will select the right order and Update + install correctly. You must disabled Popup and Update will Update what's installed and then ask if you want to add the other stuff, just say NO! Auto Update also lists the updates separately and in the correct order of install. FOr those folks who want to install one at a time.

Donnie27
 
[Offtopic]

Installing the Drivers from Creative disc is pretty simple. Turn off Anti-Virus software. Pick to only install the card + Drivers and the getting started Demo (until you learn how to use the card's features then un-install it). The card offers a minimal install and then you simply use the Auto update. You need at least install Audio HQ, Media Players and the Surround Mixer. These will hose Speaker, Controllers, Sound Effects like EAX and etc.... It will select the right order and Update + install correctly. You must disabled Popup and Update will Update what's installed and then ask if you want to add the other stuff, just say NO! Auto Update also lists the updates separately and in the correct order of install. FOr those folks who want to install one at a time.
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Turn off Anti-Virus software.
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Did anyone else laugh after reading this statement. It's not a personal shot against Donnie, but how he worded made me laugh. Just the thought of having to turn off your anti-virus to install drivers just doesn't sound right.

[/Offtopic]

I currently have an Audigy 2 ZS and I find the drivers to be decent (just a tad bloated, but overall not too bad). Although my main gripe with the X-Fi is besides the "massive" performance (which imo really wasn't needed because the A2ZS's performance seemed just fine) their hasn't been much improvement in technologies. Yeah their is a new eax and cmss, but I never really preferred either of them to begin with (especially the cmss, yuck). Eax 5 just doesn't seem like a big advancement, sure it's still eax and it's still hardware accelerated, but could you really tell the difference between it and eax3/4 (aside from the sub woofer). To be honest I really feel eax 3 and eax 4 are practically the same thing. I agree they are much better than eax1/2, but I just feel like eax 3/4/5 are going to basically be the same thing. I don't buy into "making mp3 sound like the original source", I believe it to be a marketing gimmick. The X-Fi lack of better technologies doesn't justify it's increased price. Maybe if the Sound Blaster X-Fi Elite Pro
or Sound Blaster X-Fi Fatal1ty FPS was around $100ish, I would consider it, but $300-$400 for a new sound card that doesn't have any new and decent technologies is just lame. Oh well, my two cents.
 
Audigy 2 and 2 ZS have much improved drivers over Audigy1, with 2 ZS having the best. These also be found SlipScreened (Updates already added).
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Slipstreamed? ;)

If you are trying to suggest that the drivers are cumulative you are correct but the application patches are not.

Hacked drivers? There are hardware parts of the Auidgy 2 and 2 ZS that are missing from the Audigy 1. First Audigy 1 has a Versa Jack, this is separate on the A2 2 ZS. Software trying to enabled this have caused some folks BSODs. Audigy 1 doesn't feature an MLP chip, not 6.1 or 7.1 as well. This software controls HARDWARE Controllers, if the Hardware is missing, BSOD again. Same goes for Buffers and Filters that are missing from Audigy 1 as well. Can't Connect Digital and Analog at the same time, with A1 it is either or.
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Yes, hacked drivers.
The Creative drivers maintain backward compatibility for multi card situations.
All it takes to exploit this a patched install config file and away you go.....

Versa jack?
You sure you are not talking about the Santa Cruz here?
If not you must mean the live 51. card then because it was the last Creative card that had a dual purpose jack (the digital output also served as the center/sub output)
 
Moofasa~ said:
Although my main gripe with the X-Fi is besides the "massive" performance (which imo really wasn't needed because the A2ZS's performance seemed just fine) their hasn't been much improvement in technologies.
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Hardware accelerated audio isn't about increasing your FPS, that's what graphics cards are for. The "massive" performance of the X-Fi will be used primarily to make the audio better, not to make FPS faster. It's yet another big mistake on Creative's part to hype this FPS crap. People will be ultimately let down if they think they are buying some kind of FPS accelerator. Buy the X-Fi if you want better audio. If you'd rather have more FPS, save the money for a faster CPU or GPU.
 
Moofasa~ said:
[Offtopic]

Did anyone else laugh after reading this statement. It's not a personal shot against Donnie, but how he worded made me laugh. Just the thought of having to turn off your anti-virus to install drivers just doesn't sound right.
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Maybe you have a problem with following instructions and RTFM, I think folks reading that might think it's funny then that just proves my point again.

EAX 3 and 4 are not the same.
Bloated Drivers for Hardware that's pretty robust is a must.
Paying 100ish for an HDA-M is LAME, it ships with less features than the low end X-Fi.
Wait for EAX5 tests and reviews before you make a judgement on EAX5. Know you though, no matter how ell it works you'll just justify paying $100 for HDA-M to have your CPU do the processing ;)

Donnie27
 
Mister X said:
Slipstreamed? ;)

If you are trying to suggest that the drivers are cumulative you are correct but the application patches are not.

Yes, hacked drivers.
The Creative drivers maintain backward compatibility for multi card situations.
All it takes to exploit this a patched install config file and away you go.....

Versa jack?
You sure you are not talking about the Santa Cruz here?
If not you must mean the live 51. card then because it was the last Creative card that had a dual purpose jack (the digital output also served as the center/sub output)
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Yes, Slipstream. Yes an accumulation for the Drivers, not apps. But you know that already.

Multiple Cards yes, but if those cards don't have the features/hardware; it causes no improvements at best and at worse BSODs. There isn't a damned thing to exploit on Audigy 1=P There are no features that are secretly exposed with newer drivers.

The Dual Purpose Jack and Versa Jacks are the same. No damned reason to point that out LOL!

Donnie27
 
Paying 100ish for an HDA-M is LAME, it ships with less features than the low end X-Fi.
Wait for EAX5 tests and reviews before you make a judgement on EAX5. Know you though, no matter how ell it works you'll just justify paying $100 for HDA-M to have your CPU do the processing ;)
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And yet it has the best feature that the X-Fi will never support, DDL. I don't mind if the CPU "does all the work" because that's what SMT is for (or later on in life, dual core). I didn't make any judgements, all I said I there wasn't and major/real differences between Eax 3 or Eax 4 and I offered my opinion that I don't believe Eax 5 will provide any major differences either. I hope you enjoy your $400 dollar sound card that will provide barely any noticable differences between your Audigy 2 ZS. Know you though, no matter how ell it works you'll just justify paying $400 for X-Fi to have your Sound Card process yet another version of EAX ;).
 
Moofasa~ said:
And yet it has the best feature that the X-Fi will never support, DDL. I don't mind if the CPU "does all the work" because that's what SMT is for (or later on in life, dual core). I didn't make any judgements, all I said I there wasn't and major/real differences between Eax 3 or Eax 4 and I offered my opinion that I don't believe Eax 5 will provide any major differences either. I hope you enjoy your $400 dollar sound card that will provide barely any noticable differences between your Audigy 2 ZS. Know you though, no matter how ell it works you'll just justify paying $400 for X-Fi to have your Sound Card process yet another version of EAX ;).
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It does when your opinion flies in the face of common sense LOL! It could be your opinion that the world is flat. I'm sure someone would call you on that too.

The CPU can only execute software written for it=P EAX 3 & 4 is NOT written for it as you already know. Creative sued id when they exposed the code or opened it up to be processed by the processsor. Processing pre-rendered DVD is NOT quite the same as Processing Games sounds On-The-Fly. Just how much DS3D gets to be processed is a whole nother thread since it's not exact science either. Then when the processor is doing some worthwhile processing, it causes Delay or Latency.

EAX4 is an improvement on EAX3 just as DirectX 9C is on DirectX 8A. Now that came from an Intel Rep, hardly a friend of Creative's. I already gave you a link to 3Dsoundsurge that talks about the differences as well.

There's no way I'd pay even $200 and $400 is out of the question. I don't believe in double standards. I think you paid too much for an HDA-M and that same price is too much for an Audigy2 ZS or the bottom end X-Fi. Why would you say something that crazy? Lately I've been pushing $39 refurb ZS's LOL!

Donnie27
 
Donnie27 said:
It does when your opinion flies in the face of common sense LOL! It could be your opinion that the world is flat. I'm sure someone would call you on that too.

The CPU can only execute software written for it=P EAX 3 & 4 is NOT written for it as you already know. Creative sued id when they exposed the code or opened it up to be processed by the processsor. Processing pre-rendered DVD is NOT quite the same as Processing Games sounds On-The-Fly. Just how much DS3D gets to be processed is a whole nother thread since it's not exact science either. Then when the processor is doing some worthwhile processing, it causes Delay or Latency.

EAX4 is an improvement on EAX3 just as DirectX 9C is on DirectX 8A. Now that came from an Intel Rep, hardly a friend of Creative's. I already gave you a link to 3Dsoundsurge that talks about the differences as well.

There's no way I'd pay even $200 and $400 is out of the question. I don't believe in double standards. I think you paid too much for an HDA-M and that same price is too much for an Audigy2 ZS or the bottom end X-Fi. Why would you say something that crazy? Lately I've been pushing $39 refurb ZS's LOL!

Donnie27
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I never related preencoded dvds to surround processing in games, so I am not sure where you are going with that one. In addition, I have yet to notice a delay in anything, although I guess that wouldn't matter to you. How does my opinion "flies in the face of common sense" (and stop using "LOL!" makes you look like an idiot), show me one good example of how Eax 4 is so much better than Eax 3. Also could you tell me one more time that you feel that I overpaid for my HDA-M, I think its only been ten times now, I am glad you feel that way, however I feel it was more than well worth it.
 
Moofasa~ said:
I never related preencoded dvds to surround processing in games, so I am not sure where you are going with that one.
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You kind of are when you say that DDL is good for gaming, B/c most games don't even support it. W/o the game supporting it, you're not getting real 5.1.

For most games, the only way to get 5.1 channel audio is still by way of EAX 3 or higher.

We may argue that's not ideal b/c we don't want to hassle with creative cards, drivers, or analog-domain conversions, but that's the reality.
 
MadSkills said:
You kind of are when you say that DDL is good for gaming, B/c most games don't even support it. W/o the game supporting it, you're not getting real 5.1.

For most games, the only way to get 5.1 channel audio is still by way of EAX 3 or higher.

We may argue that's not ideal b/c we don't want to hassle with creative cards, drivers, or analog-domain conversions, but that's the reality.
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What? Do you even know what DDL is?

http://www.dolby.com/consumer/technology/dolby_live.html

I get the same 5.1 on my HDA-X as I did on my Audigy 2 ZS in HL2. DDL simply converts audio into DD 5.1; if the source is 5.1, it will keep all the "true 5.1" positioning. EAX3+ isn't the only way to get surround sound, that's just ignorant. In fact, EAX has barely anything to do with "real 5.1".

creative said:
The sophisticated environment effects of EAX provide a greater sense of realism to the gaming experience, and enhance the overall enjoyment of the player. The additional audio cues provided by EAX can also give gamers a competitive advantage in multiplayer games, enabling the early detection of the enemy. It's therefore no surprise that EAX is well established as the premier choice for interactive 3D audio for games.
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All it basically does is add environment effects and audio cues (and Donnie before you start I know it does a little more than that). So no, I never related preencoded dvds to surround processing in games. End of story.
 
Moofasa~ said:
I never related preencoded dvds to surround processing in games, so I am not sure where you are going with that one. In addition, I have yet to notice a delay in anything, although I guess that wouldn't matter to you. How does my opinion "flies in the face of common sense" (and stop using "LOL!" makes you look like an idiot), show me one good example of how Eax 4 is so much better than Eax 3. Also could you tell me one more time that you feel that I overpaid for my HDA-M, I think its only been ten times now, I am glad you feel that way, however I feel it was more than well worth it.
Click to expand...

Trying to BS folks about HDA-M makes you look like an Idiot, but that for another thread on another forum. I even gave an example of EAX3 to 4 being like DirectX 8 to 9, how in the hell is that so much better? I used LOL, because it's like you're telling a joke or something.

You twist almost everything I say to an extreme and hell yes that's funny and an act of a crazy person. I told you 100 dollars was too much to pay even for an Audigy 2 ZS. Then you say I'd make an excuse to pay $400 for something from Creative, what, you also suffer from a short term memory problem? No LOL because I do wonder about this. I used DVD decoding as an example, sheesh! If you can phucking remember me saying $100 was too much 10 times why in the hell would you think I'd pay $400? I wouldn't pay $400 for ANY COMPUTER PART! This card started life as a $69 dollar card, you crazy guys drove up the price for this CMedia with DDL live card.

Moofasa said:
All it basically does is add environment effects and audio cues (and Donnie before you start I know it does a little more than that). So no, I never related preencoded dvds to surround processing in games. End of story.
Click to expand...

But Dewd, 10 different posters already made it clear what EAX 3/4 ADDS TO Surround Sound. HL2 is also the Exception, NOT the rule when it comes to Games. The correct Environment is important, sound in a room or under water shouldn't sound like out in the open.

Moofasa said:
Yeah their is a new eax and cmss, but I never really preferred either of them to begin with (especially the cmss, yuck).
Click to expand...

There are 1000's of Headphone users who would strongly disagree with you! Even my POS Philips HP 890's sounds like 5.1, does a good front Center and rear plus shift 360 almost as well as my 5.1 Pioneer Receiver. Now I'm sure if these were Sennheiser 580's or better, this would sound even better. What you don't know can't hurt you but it also can't help you either. :rolleyes:

Donnie27
 
I wonder how much longer this thread has to live? ;)

Even if it is killed, this crap will just continue in another thread...
 
I am just gonna hold the rope in this one..... if they happen to hang themselves so be it. ;)
 
Mister X said:
I am just gonna hold the rope in this one..... if they happen to hang themselves so be it. ;)
Click to expand...

I've said what I had to say.

Donnie27
 
Donnie your retarded, the reason Creative sued ID had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH AUDIO. That's absurd you don't know wtf your talking about, and if you got this widely known fact wrong who know what other bullshit your spouting.

Creative bought a graphics company 10 some odd years ago that patented a technique for shadowing. The technology was all but forgoten, and Carmack created his own technology that was similiar (he had no idea though) to creatives patent, they then used this as leverage, they told ID implement EAX support or else we will sue the shit out of you because we own some 10 year old patent on your shadowing technolgy. They strong-armed their way into Doom 3 and forced carmack to implement inferior sound tech, fortunatly you can at least disable the shit.

Get your facts straight, you lose credibility.
 
Many bold claims in this thread. Now we honestly dont need another DDL v.s. analog debate. I believe we've already gone over that. Both are viable solutions, some people just prefer DDL while other people prefer analog out.

Man.... everywhere donnie goes flames follow @_@
 
Donnie27 said:
Trying to BS folks about HDA-M makes you look like an Idiot, but that for another thread on another forum. I even gave an example of EAX3 to 4 being like DirectX 8 to 9, how in the hell is that so much better? I used LOL, because it's like you're telling a joke or something.

You twist almost everything I say to an extreme and hell yes that's funny and an act of a crazy person. I told you 100 dollars was too much to pay even for an Audigy 2 ZS. Then you say I'd make an excuse to pay $400 for something from Creative, what, you also suffer from a short term memory problem? No LOL because I do wonder about this. I used DVD decoding as an example, sheesh! If you can phucking remember me saying $100 was too much 10 times why in the hell would you think I'd pay $400? I wouldn't pay $400 for ANY COMPUTER PART! This card started life as a $69 dollar card, you crazy guys drove up the price for this CMedia with DDL live card.


But Dewd, 10 different posters already made it clear what EAX 3/4 ADDS TO Surround Sound. HL2 is also the Exception, NOT the rule when it comes to Games. The correct Environment is important, sound in a room or under water shouldn't sound like out in the open.



There are 1000's of Headphone users who would strongly disagree with you! Even my POS Philips HP 890's sounds like 5.1, does a good front Center and rear plus shift 360 almost as well as my 5.1 Pioneer Receiver. Now I'm sure if these were Sennheiser 580's or better, this would sound even better. What you don't know can't hurt you but it also can't help you either. :rolleyes:

Donnie27
Click to expand...

I get surround sound in the F.E.A.R demo with my HDA card. I went from a Audigy 2 ZS to the HDA card, and everything sound totally better. Not because of DDL or anything, just the card sound better, period.... P.S. Finially, my sub woofer is being used.
 
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