Video Game Kickstarter Disappears With Over $30,000

H

HardOCP News

[H] News
Joined
Dec 31, 1969
Messages
0
It looks as though another video game Kickstarter disappeared with all the money. I guess the first warning sign was the fact that there were no names or contact info listed for the people behind the campaign. :(

In December of 2013, gamers paid over $30,000 to fund a Kickstarter for a game called Mansion Lord. A month later, Mansion Lord’s creators opened up a PayPal account to accept even more money. And in August of 2014, after announcing that the PayPal funding round was over, they simply disappeared.
 
On one hand I feel Kickstarter should be held responsible for not having accurate contact information of the people who they're basically acting as a middle man for in these projects.

On the other hand, reading the story makes me think the last round of "funding" went through paypal not kickstarter, in which case Paypal should be held responsible as being a middle man for a scam artist.
 
Paypal let's the person withdraw the $30k, it's their fault.

Paypal freezes the money, it's their fault.

Can't win. ;)
 
I was going to say, would you mail cash in an envelope to someone you've never met? That's basically what happens when they get some side account for funding.

But, yes, yes some people would and do. Sigh.
 
Why not hold the CC companies responsible as well? Why should either be held responsible? If people are stupid enough to pay in advance for something they may or may not get sometime in the often distant future, they sort of set themselves up for their money to be taken. The scam artist and the people that let themselves be scammed are to blame here.
 
I'm pretty sure Kickstarter updated their terms so that if projects say they are going to deliver something then they MUST follow through. Nothing about the quality of the product, but in this case I could see legal action being taken.
 
Fake identity, withdrawn in cash, only $30,000 so you're not going to get a lot of law enforcement man hours on this one, particularly with all the jurisdictions involved. Doubt a lawsuit will go very far without a known defendant.
 
The fact is, is that Kickstarter is NOT a pre-order program. Kickstarter is not an investment. You are DONATING money to an inventor/potential project.

It doesn't matter how many promises they make or deadlines they give, you are giving money away with NO guarantee whatsoever that you can get the money back OR get ANY kind of product from it. There have been many great projects that have been funded and fulfilled. You are taking a risk with this.

I for example backed a Kickstarter for a group of people making an Earthbound (SNES) guidebook and accessories. The same team, years earlier made a emulator patch for Mother 3 from Japanese to English and designed a Mother 3 guidebook from scratch. I gave them money via PayPal donation years ago and they came through with the handbook.

I totally trust them this time that they will deliver the good when finished. However, if they just disappear tomorrow there is nothing I can do.
 
Kickstarter should not be allowing anonymous people to run a campaign. They should be making them provide proof of identity, address etc. Sue Kickstarter.
 
sfsuphysics said:
On one hand I feel Kickstarter should be held responsible for not having accurate contact information of the people who they're basically acting as a middle man for in these projects.

On the other hand, reading the story makes me think the last round of "funding" went through paypal not kickstarter, in which case Paypal should be held responsible as being a middle man for a scam artist.
Click to expand...

GORANKAR said:
Why not hold the CC companies responsible as well? Why should either be held responsible? If people are stupid enough to pay in advance for something they may or may not get sometime in the often distant future, they sort of set themselves up for their money to be taken. The scam artist and the people that let themselves be scammed are to blame here.
Click to expand...

Serious? When are people going to stop being dumb and giving money away to a company with nothing more than an imaginary promise note.

Stop giving these people money.
 
If we learned anything from Star Citizen/Kickstarter it is that PC gamers bitch about EA/Activision etc. However, you show them shiney renderings of whatever they clamor for and they will give you millions.

These guys sold themselves short at only $30,000
 
MavericK96 said:
I'm pretty sure Kickstarter updated their terms so that if projects say they are going to deliver something then they MUST follow through. Nothing about the quality of the product, but in this case I could see legal action being taken.
Click to expand...

They still warn people to do their homework and say that they can't personally do anything to promise you will get anything. They have added a verified account but that is all.


While it does suck that this happen, it is the fault of the people for not doing any research. That should be a warning to all people. Make sure that you are only backing people that you feel confident in doing so and realize that you might end up with nothing and be fine with that.
 
A fool and his money are soon...

Yeah, every person that has more than half a brain knows this...
 
It's pure gambling. You win great, you lose well it's your fault. Play the blame game but in the end it's your fault for not doing your homework on who you're investing with. If it's too good to begin with then it probably is. Kickstarter is nothing but a scam for suckers.
 
I find Kickstarter to be...well...dumb. Most things I see come out of the program end up being something that you could already buy. Just possibly not in your own country.
 
Sucker born every minute, just look at Microsoft and all the other chumps that bought into the clockboy con.
 
Another reason I don't support Kickstarter or Steam Greenlight.
 
Don't you have the give the money back if your project does not happen within the specified date? I thought the money went to kickstarter and was only given to the project funder if 1: they reach their goal and 2: the project is actually delivered. If not, then what stops people from doing this constantly?
 
Red Squirrel said:
Don't you have the give the money back if your project does not happen within the specified date? I thought the money went to kickstarter and was only given to the project funder if 1: they reach their goal and 2: the project is actually delivered. If not, then what stops people from doing this constantly?
Click to expand...

Kickstarter doesn't give a crap what happens.

Kickstarter said:
Who is responsible for completing a project as promised?


It's the project creator's responsibility to complete their project. Kickstarter is not involved in the development of the projects themselves.

Kickstarter does not guarantee projects or investigate a creator's ability to complete their project. On Kickstarter, backers (you!) ultimately decide the validity and worthiness of a project by whether they decide to fund it.
Click to expand...
 
Wow so right now I can make up some screenshots or prototypes of some fake epic product, put it on kickstarter, get a bunch of money, and then use it to renovate my house? You'd think there would be some way to stop that.

Not that I'd do that. In fact if I started a kick starter my project would be practically ready by the time I even start the kickstarter. I'd just do it so I can get the final and possibly more expensive touches done. And it also acts kinda as an advertising platform as it shows on their site and what not.
 
Pretty much. It's just backers gambling on a project and hoping it'll complete and they get something cool for cheap.
 
XvMMvX said:
If we learned anything from Star Citizen/Kickstarter it is that PC gamers bitch about EA/Activision etc. However, you show them shiney renderings of whatever they clamor for and they will give you millions.

These guys sold themselves short at only $30,000
Click to expand...
Yeah, too bad publishers can't figure that out. Otherwise we wouldn't have so many crowdfunded projects like this that people have to take a chance on.
 
sfsuphysics said:
On one hand I feel Kickstarter should be held responsible for not having accurate contact information of the people who they're basically acting as a middle man for in these projects.

On the other hand, reading the story makes me think the last round of "funding" went through paypal not kickstarter, in which case Paypal should be held responsible as being a middle man for a scam artist.
Click to expand...

What ever happened to personal responsibility? We have a culture of always wanting to hold someone else responsible other than the individuals themselves.
 
Darksword said:
What ever happened to personal responsibility? We have a culture of always wanting to hold someone else responsible other than the individuals themselves.
Click to expand...

If you think personal responsibility is a tradition of the past, you may want to take a history course.
 
Personal responsibility was more of a tradition of the past than it is today. If only because there were actual consequences, like possibly starving, involved. ;)
 
No different than televangelists. People send them money waiting for something that they never get. People are suckers.
 
MrTroy03 said:
The fact is, is that Kickstarter is NOT a pre-order program. Kickstarter is not an investment. You are DONATING money to an inventor/potential project.

It doesn't matter how many promises they make or deadlines they give, you are giving money away with NO guarantee whatsoever that you can get the money back OR get ANY kind of product from it. There have been many great projects that have been funded and fulfilled. You are taking a risk with this.

I for example backed a Kickstarter for a group of people making an Earthbound (SNES) guidebook and accessories. The same team, years earlier made a emulator patch for Mother 3 from Japanese to English and designed a Mother 3 guidebook from scratch. I gave them money via PayPal donation years ago and they came through with the handbook.

I totally trust them this time that they will deliver the good when finished. However, if they just disappear tomorrow there is nothing I can do.
Click to expand...

Agreed. People just want someone/something else other than themselves to blame for something.

Sure, the con artits are in the wrong for taking advantage of people, and their money, but as you pointed out, anyone who backs a kickstarter should be fully aware of the personaly risk involved.
 
Red Squirrel said:
Don't you have the give the money back if your project does not happen within the specified date? I thought the money went to kickstarter and was only given to the project funder if 1: they reach their goal and 2: the project is actually delivered. If not, then what stops people from doing this constantly?
Click to expand...

The only part you are correct about is that the money only goes to the person if they reach their full funding.
 
I think there is a big difference between projects that couldn't deliver for whatever reason, and projects that were never intended to be completed from day 1 and are pure scams. Yes, it's a donation, and you cannot be guaranteed a particular result. But there should be an attempt.

I can donate to a campaign for breast cancer and hope that a cure will be found. There is no guarantee that a cure will be found, and it could be decades if one is. But at least I should know that my money actually went to real research, regardless of the result of that research. If I donated to a campaign and someone involved had zero intention of funding research with it, and instead pocketed the money and took off, that is fraud and illegal and NOT the fault of the people who donated, and they have every right to be upset. People can easily make themselves appear to be legit. The only way donators can be sure they won't lose any money ever is to never donate at all. Is that what we want? I don't think so.

In this case, I think it's odd that kickstarter allowed a campaign where there was no verified contact information. I think as the middle man, they have some responsibility to do some due diligence before allowing campaigns to exist on their website.
 
I don't get Kickstarter. You are basically gambling your money with no return on investment. You just get the product for a little less money then everyone else will be able to buy it for when/if it gets released. It should be set up so you invest money for a part of the company. They should just have a "Donate your money to me so I can try and become rich" button. I find the whole thing very offensive. It's part of this new give me something for nothing attitude.
 
robothunter said:
I don't get Kickstarter. You are basically gambling your money with no return on investment. You just get the product for a little less money then everyone else will be able to buy it for when/if it gets released. It should be set up so you invest money for a part of the company. They should just have a "Donate your money to me so I can try and become rich" button. I find the whole thing very offensive. It's part of this new give me something for nothing attitude.
Click to expand...

The thing is there are plenty of kickstarter projects that don't fit this description at all. Take the new Battletech one for instance.
http://hardforum.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1041884130
It's be the creators of the Bt universe, who run a games studio that has successfully launched games in the past (including some very successful kickstarted games). In return for funding the game (which allows them to build a larger game), you get a copy of the game and some neat, one-off BT merchandise.

Seems like a win-win. The company gets to make a product it otherwise would not. The buyer gets a game they otherwise would not AND (I would argue in consideration of the risk that the game falls through) some cool gear.

The problem is backers who think they OWN something by backing. This isn't investing. And it can't be. Investing in a company is a complex process, with lots of paperwork and SEC oversight etc. The overhead on that kind of process is more than many small companies are worth.
 
Dion said:
Another reason I don't support Kickstarter or Steam Greenlight.
Click to expand...

Greenlight isn't the problem, you can bring a completely finished game onto Greenlight. The issue is Early Access. Early Access games are sold before they're finished, removing any incentive that might exist to make them better or even to finish them at all.
 
i960 said:
I think there is a big difference between projects that couldn't deliver for whatever reason, and projects that were never intended to be completed from day 1 and are pure scams. Yes, it's a donation, and you cannot be guaranteed a particular result. But there should be an attempt.

I can donate to a campaign for breast cancer and hope that a cure will be found. There is no guarantee that a cure will be found, and it could be decades if one is. But at least I should know that my money actually went to real research, regardless of the result of that research. If I donated to a campaign and someone involved had zero intention of funding research with it, and instead pocketed the money and took off, that is fraud and illegal and NOT the fault of the people who donated, and they have every right to be upset. People can easily make themselves appear to be legit. The only way donators can be sure they won't lose any money ever is to never donate at all. Is that what we want? I don't think so.

In this case, I think it's odd that kickstarter allowed a campaign where there was no verified contact information. I think as the middle man, they have some responsibility to do some due diligence before allowing campaigns to exist on their website.
Click to expand...

That is actually kind of a funny thing to bring up. In your example there, you aren't donating anything toward breast cancer. Those little pink ribbons don't give any money to anything other than the pockets of the people running the funds. That is how most of those are. So if you donate by giving money to march of dimes or dozens of other funds like that you are more than happy to do so and that money doesn't help anyone in the area that you are "thinking" you are helping.

As for no verification. Do keep in mind that this happen 2 years ago, not just recently. At that time Kickstarter would have still been green and didn't have as much in place as they do now.
 
I wish people who keep chanting the "donation" mantra would actually look up the meaning of the word. Kickstarter is NOT a donation platform. If you donate money to something, that's it, the only thing you get in return are the warm fuzzies that come afterward (and maybe a tax write-off).

Kickstarter backers, on the whole, pledge money in order to receive something in return. That is the contract project creators enter into when they accept pledge funds. If you don't believe me, look up the Washington State case. Backers are morally and legally entitled to the items outlined in the pledge tiers of their choosing, plus any stretch goals associated with the drive. They're also owed for any add-ons to which they've remitted money over and above their base tier level.

Backers are not donators and they're certainly not investors. This perception and lie needs to DIAF.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top