Microsoft Has No Plans To Tell Us What's In Windows Patches

Megalith

Megalith

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What’s better than forced updates? Why, not knowing what those updates are for, of course! While updates have traditionally included links that lead to Microsoft’s support page for more information, it all tends to be a bit vague. That’s not changing any time soon. To be fair, this kind of thing seems to be a widespread issue in the industry. I mean, I can’t remember the last time I got an Android app update that suggested it was anything more than “bug fixes.”

Company representatives told The Register that while the company "may choose" to perform "additional promotion" of new features depending on their "significance," there's no intention of providing full release notes. This means that future patches are going to continue to say nothing more than "This update includes improvements to enhance the functionality of Windows 10."
 
Not sure this is a big deal, at least not to me. Microsoft has made it clear they want Windows to be a service, this all goes along that line. Works for me.
 
What can you expect from a company so greedy that they'd rather hire H1Bs for half the price of an American worker?
 
Being kind of lazy here...does Windows 10 Enterprise users get an exemption from the forced updates? I know IT departments sometimes like to control what gets pushed out to the users.
IT departments tend to what to know what patch fixed what. They might not apply all patches.

Getting to know the average, non-techie Windows 10 user, they likely don't even know what a patch is. My guess is the majority of the user base would not read (nor care) what the patch notes say.
 
Nothing like a day without FUD...oh, wait...;)

As long as you can read up on the patches after installation, and remove them individually if the need arises, what is the big deal, exactly?

Yes, Enterprise is entirely different.
 
Cali3350 said:
Not sure this is a big deal, at least not to me. Microsoft has made it clear they want Windows to be a service, this all goes along that line. Works for me.
Click to expand...

how do you make a connection between "windows as a service" to "they may install whatever they like and i can't know it"?
 
temujin987 said:
how do you make a connection between "windows as a service" to "they may install whatever they like and i can't know it"?
Click to expand...

It might make more sense if you consider the liklihood that they also agree that ignorance is bliss.
 
steakman1971 said:
Being kind of lazy here...does Windows 10 Enterprise users get an exemption from the forced updates? I know IT departments sometimes like to control what gets pushed out to the users.
IT departments tend to what to know what patch fixed what. They might not apply all patches.

Getting to know the average, non-techie Windows 10 user, they likely don't even know what a patch is. My guess is the majority of the user base would not read (nor care) what the patch notes say.
Click to expand...

Yes. Just Home Edition has forced updates which IMOP is needed. Pro can defer updates if not connected to a domain and both Pro and Enterprise can block updates when connected to a domain with GP and WSUS.
 
It's a free OS with free updates as long as the OS is supported, which Microsoft has hinted that it would be quite a long time. You have the choice to install the home version or not if you don't want the forced updates. You can ride down Windows 7/8.1 until support ends, switch to a Mac (which basically does the same thing) or go Linux, but at this point it is a 'take it or leave' it proposition. Someone will find a workaround for the downloads on down the road at some point, they always do.
 
WaltC said:
Nothing like a day without FUD...oh, wait...;)

As long as you can read up on the patches after installation, and remove them individually if the need arises, what is the big deal, exactly?

Yes, Enterprise is entirely different.
Click to expand...

It's only a "big deal"
After your in a reboot loop or After a forced driver install has broken your widget.
No Big Deal, exactly, right?

Call me boring but I read software patch notes and changelogs.
 
Anything to improve Edge Microsoft Stobe light flashes like crazy untill you install the latest Nvidia Drivers.
 
Meanwhile in Linux Mint you can read a description and change log for updates before installing them:

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I still use Windows for things like games, but every aspect of it is getting worse. The interface gets worse with each version, Microsoft's policies get worse with each version, the range of customisation options gets less with each version.

I'm just amazed how willing people are to bend over and take whatever Microsoft gives them, with no knowledge what it is and no choice on the matter. With Linux constantly improving and Windows getting rapidly worse I honestly don't know why more people aren't switching to Linux.

I'll continue to use Windows for games, but I'll definitely stick with Windows 7. Windows 10 is a new low for Microsoft.
 
There has to be a catch besides data mining. I'm not enjoying windows 10 so far. OS wise is ok. it's just a constant nag "TRY OFFICE 365 today!"

I'm just expecting it to become worse and not better.
 
Windows users don't need patch contents descriptions anyway. They're either going to have them installed because it's a work computer and patches are mandatory for them to have and for SysAds to push or they're end users who wouldn't care anyhow. The like small halo group of people that will want to know what's in a patch are generally gonna just install it anyhow like any other home user so why even bother? It's a waste of Microsoft's time. If someone cares that much, they'll use something other than Windows. I mean, even most app updates from the Play Store have a changelog thingy listed in the "Read More" section.
 
Too many companies do this.

IMHO, detailed software change logs should be REQUIRED for all software, including firmware.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
Windows users don't need patch contents descriptions anyway. They're either going to have them installed because it's a work computer and patches are mandatory for them to have and for SysAds to push or they're end users who wouldn't care anyhow. The like small halo group of people that will want to know what's in a patch are generally gonna just install it anyhow like any other home user so why even bother? It's a waste of Microsoft's time. If someone cares that much, they'll use something other than Windows. I mean, even most app updates from the Play Store have a changelog thingy listed in the "Read More" section.
Click to expand...

It's not a waste of Microsoft's time, they already have the documentation on what was patch and fixed. They choose not to post it.
If an app in the Play Store can have a "changelog thingy", why can't the OS? :confused:
 
WaltC said:
Nothing like a day without FUD...oh, wait...;)
Click to expand...
:rolleyes:

You can't just dismiss everything true and negative about Windows 10 by calling it FUD. If you don't understand what FUD is, don't use the term or you'll just come off as a fool. Wikipedia has a nice long explanation so you don't misuse it again, but the first 2 paragraphs should do: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt

The problem is that, unlike all previous operating systems MS made, it has decided to stop making patch descriptions available. It's not even in the same realm as FUD. It's legitimately concerning to some people, especially those who may be affected by patches that break important software or functionality.
 
Jim Kim said:
It's not a waste of Microsoft's time, they already have the documentation on what was patch and fixed. They choose not to post it.
If an app in the Play Store can have a "changelog thingy", why can't the OS? :confused:
Click to expand...

Because no one cares what's changed in the OS. I mean really, even here on this forum people freak out about the changes in a video game patch a ton more often than they even notice a Windows patch. The number of people who own one or more of the billions of Windows computers in the world is probably less than a tenth of a percent so basically, it's not worth the effort.
 
pxc said:
:rolleyes:

You can't just dismiss everything true and negative about Windows 10 by calling it FUD. If you don't understand what FUD is, don't use the term or you'll just come off as a fool. Wikipedia has a nice long explanation so you don't misuse it again, but the first 2 paragraphs should do: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt

The problem is that, unlike all previous operating systems MS made, it has decided to stop making patch descriptions available. It's not even in the same realm as FUD. It's legitimately concerning to some people, especially those who may be affected by patches that break important software or functionality.
Click to expand...

CreepyUncleGoogle said:
Because no one cares what's changed in the OS. I mean really, even here on this forum people freak out about the changes in a video game patch a ton more often than they even notice a Windows patch. The number of people who own one or more of the billions of Windows computers in the world is probably less than a tenth of a percent so basically, it's not worth the effort.
Click to expand...

:eek:"Because no one cares and it's not worth the effort?" :eek:

The question we are discussing is if Microsoft should post their documentation on OS patches?
The answer is unequivocally yes.
I think your in the wrong forum.
 
To be fair, a lot of the descriptions we had been provided with up to this point in previous Windows versions have not always been useful neither.

Often it's just "an update that solves compatilibty problems" copied and pasted for all packages.

Obviously the descriptions rarely delved into which system files were patched and how.
Obviously it won't say: 'it breaks your Windows'.

Remember the shitstorm after the WGA patch was applied, locking people out of pirated (and some genuine) installations? That was real money down the drain for some companies (even some legit ones).
Just before the XP deadline an update was pushed that caused Windows Update to eat up a whole CPU core doing "something". Many of my clients got hit with an unexpectedly high electricity bill. This shouldn't have happened - especially considering the support was still guaranteed.
Driver related or not, 7 got hit at least twice last year. I know it was a bad patch because stress-tested before deployment, brand new PCs would bluescreen. And then - they would stop bluescreening after another patching.

When WU reboots my computer to apply a patch as I'm away from the keyboard, and I lose some data, I am pissed off but at the same time understand MS' point of view - some people are indeed too lazy or stubborn to patch their systems so they won't become a part of a botnet.

It wasn't always pretty, but at least you could tune it, delay the installation, or disable it altogether and manually fetch the updates and test them in a staging environment.

This tendency to just force it could prove great security-wise, but it may also be the vector for a massive outage.
 
temujin987 said:
how do you make a connection between "windows as a service" to "they may install whatever they like and i can't know it"?
Click to expand...
I think the idea is once you've already made the jump from a product you own and can use however you want to one that you're dependent on the parent company for it functioning properly, you're already being suckered in, so you shouldn't have any illusions about what they can or can't do now. You hand them control, they do whatever they want.
 
MajorDomo said:
It's a free OS with free updates as long as the OS is supported, which Microsoft has hinted that it would be quite a long time. You have the choice to install the home version or not if you don't want the forced updates. You can ride down Windows 7/8.1 until support ends, switch to a Mac (which basically does the same thing) or go Linux, but at this point it is a 'take it or leave' it proposition. Someone will find a workaround for the downloads on down the road at some point, they always do.
Click to expand...

Switch to a Mac? They are even more control freaks than Microsoft.
 
Hey, can someone tell me when Microsoft was given responsiblity for preventing my computer from becoming part of a botnet? I sure as Hell don't recall asking them to force updates onto my computer for "my own good". And now, if I upgrade to Win 10, they won't even deign to tell me just what is being patched? No. I think not.

As things stand now, Win 7 Pro will be the last OS I buy from MS... maybe the last product altogether. Whatever the upsides of Win 10 may be, they aren't worth the downsides. Not to me, anyway. MS doesn't seem able to tell the difference between "helping" and "controlling" anymore, and that's not good.
 
I'm still on Windows 7 (Ultimate) and will remain on it for quite a few more years at this rate. Only feeling miffed that new Windows 7 Ultimate licenses are so expensive now.
 
I just tried Windows 10 and its no quicker than my 2 yr old Win7 with a 6600K.
It looks boring as hell, uninspiring and bland.
Pointless other than for DX12.

I'm staying with Win 7 and will get an install of Win10 for games that need DX12 when it matters.
 
steakman1971 said:
Being kind of lazy here...does Windows 10 Enterprise users get an exemption from the forced updates? I know IT departments sometimes like to control what gets pushed out to the users.
IT departments tend to what to know what patch fixed what. They might not apply all patches.

Getting to know the average, non-techie Windows 10 user, they likely don't even know what a patch is. My guess is the majority of the user base would not read (nor care) what the patch notes say.
Click to expand...

Windows 10 Pro and Enterprise can both be setup to use a WSUS server which allows you to control which updates are applied.
 
I can nearly guarantee you all that, unless this thread was started here on [H], most of you would not even noticed or cared. However, since someone posted it, you are going to somehow suddenly make me believe you card all along? Most of what goes on here is good old fashioned Microsoft hate packaged as caring.
 
Not displaying the information on a windows client is one thing... not publishing information is a whole other issue.

There are a number of times each year where I have to investigate a Windows patch, files, versions etc

I am fine with MS showing less info on the client but they need to IMPROVE info online. Their update structure/methodology and reporting is horrid, the only reason why people don't complain more is because for the most part updates/patches are deployed and forgotten (except for the few time a year you actually have a problem then its a nightmare to figure out what is going on).

The lack of organization and thought is much clearer if you use SCCM 2012's new application model which uses a lot of methodology borrowed from MS updates. Especially if you buy into their per user management.

Their methods are serviceable for updates but app deployment is very frustrating and more complex than needed. Back in CM07, I thought it couldn't get worse but it did. There are many times I wish we would have stuck with package programs.
 
Why are you so butthurt?
And why do you care so much about what other people prefer?
Looks like you have a vested interest.
 
Nenu said:
Why are you so butthurt?
And why do you care so much about what other people prefer?
Looks like you have a vested interest.
Click to expand...

There's long been those that like Windows and the general idea and those how don't. Nothing nefarious about that. The thing about Windows though is that its 3rd party hardware and software support are unmatched in the desktop world due to its dominant market share. And over the years even with Microsoft's anti-trust issues and the development of desktop Linux and perception by many of the superiority of Macs and OS X, little has changed in that regard in nearly two decades.

If there were a Linux distro or any other OS out there that was freely and easily installable or that came preinstalled on PCs that had 100% or near compatibility with everything people used Windows for, that had few malware issues, that didn't "spy" but allowed for integration of cloud services if one chose, i.e. if there was something that had all the good stuff of Windows and little of the bad and was free, then Windows would die and that'd be that.

But such an OS does not exist. Windows 10 has plenty of faults but it also plenty of strengths. Until an alternative OS can replicate those strengths Windows is going to be dominate on the desktop.
 
ManofGod said:
I can nearly guarantee you all that, unless this thread was started here on [H], most of you would not even noticed or cared. However, since someone posted it, you are going to somehow suddenly make me believe you card all along? Most of what goes on here is good old fashioned Microsoft hate packaged as caring.
Click to expand...

Hardforum users have heard of the internet and visit other tech sites. They will chalk up this comment to waking up on the wrong side of the bed. :eek:
 
heatlesssun said:
There's long been those that like Windows and the general idea and those how don't. Nothing nefarious about that. The thing about Windows though is that its 3rd party hardware and software support are unmatched in the desktop world due to its dominant market share. And over the years even with Microsoft's anti-trust issues and the development of desktop Linux and perception by many of the superiority of Macs and OS X, little has changed in that regard in nearly two decades.

If there were a Linux distro or any other OS out there that was freely and easily installable or that came preinstalled on PCs that had 100% or near compatibility with everything people used Windows for, that had few malware issues, that didn't "spy" but allowed for integration of cloud services if one chose, i.e. if there was something that had all the good stuff of Windows and little of the bad and was free, then Windows would die and that'd be that.

But such an OS does not exist. Windows 10 has plenty of faults but it also plenty of strengths. Until an alternative OS can replicate those strengths Windows is going to be dominate on the desktop.
Click to expand...
Who asked you?
 
What you said has nothing to do with what I asked.
Nor are you the person I asked, unless you masquerade as more than one forum member.
 
I'm guessing as soon as Microsoft find out what they exactly are patching then well be the first to hear what they did.

That saves Microsoft from embarrassing patches that go wrong ;) Wait now that they did not announce what was done nothing can go wrong....

Hurrah for Microsoft the leader in software innovation in many decades past and to come ....
 
heatlesssun said:
There's long been those that like Windows and the general idea and those how don't. Nothing nefarious about that. The thing about Windows though is that its 3rd party hardware and software support are unmatched in the desktop world due to its dominant market share. And over the years even with Microsoft's anti-trust issues and the development of desktop Linux and perception by many of the superiority of Macs and OS X, little has changed in that regard in nearly two decades.

If there were a Linux distro or any other OS out there that was freely and easily installable or that came preinstalled on PCs that had 100% or near compatibility with everything people used Windows for, that had few malware issues, that didn't "spy" but allowed for integration of cloud services if one chose, i.e. if there was something that had all the good stuff of Windows and little of the bad and was free, then Windows would die and that'd be that.

But such an OS does not exist. Windows 10 has plenty of faults but it also plenty of strengths. Until an alternative OS can replicate those strengths Windows is going to be dominate on the desktop.
Click to expand...

Nenu said:
Who asked you?
Click to expand...

heatlesssun said:
Who needs to be asked? We're all simply offering our opinions. Nothing more or less.
Click to expand...

Nenu said:
What you said has nothing to do with what I asked.
Nor are you the person I asked, unless you masquerade as more than one forum member.
Click to expand...

Nenu, did your caregiver drop you off her route, Because somebody is off there meds. ;)
 
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