Warrantless Cell Phone Tracking Ruled Unconstitutional

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The U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals has ruled that warrantless cell phone tracking is unconstitutional.

The ruling does not block investigators from obtaining the records — which show which calls are routed through specific towers — but simply requires a higher legal showing of probable cause to obtain a search warrant rather than a less-strict court order.
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Well it is a ruling but it has a narrow effect as it is now.

To obtain a court order for the records, prosecutors needed to show only that the records were relevant and material to an ongoing investigation. But after Wednesday's ruling, prosecutors in the 11th Circuit, which encompasses Alabama, Florida and Georgia, will have to meet a higher standard: probable cause, or a reasonable belief that a person committed a crime.
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about darn time.

Oh, and BTW, in US case law, if one federal circuit court rules, it goes for the entire US, unless the appeal goes up to the next level and fails. In this case, I doubt it will go up any further.
 
DocFaustus said:
This is a step in the right direction. I like the reasoning.

I hope they can use this ruling to apply to the license plate readers.
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I'm fighting a case of a supposed photo radar ticket right now on the grounds that it violates my right to due process. The photo radar van was parked in a school zone where the light timing between the two sides is off by 10 minutes. One side turns off 10 minutes before the other side, between 3:24 and 3:34. The speed limit is 35 during regular times and 20 during the school zone enforcement, at 3:31pm. They claim I was doing 34 during the school zone enforcement time. I have a video recording of it. They park that van there every single day and entrap 10-20 people per day, without due process or the right to confront their accusers. It's an obvious case of corruption and abuse of power.

I have sued the city and county over it and refused to pay the fine. We'll see how it goes. The nice part is if they declare it a violation of due process, this would cover all photo radar and red light cameras across the country because due process is a constitutional right.
 
dgingeri said:
I'm fighting a case of a supposed photo radar ticket right now on the grounds that it violates my right to due process. The photo radar van was parked in a school zone where the light timing between the two sides is off by 10 minutes. One side turns off 10 minutes before the other side, between 3:24 and 3:34. The speed limit is 35 during regular times and 20 during the school zone enforcement, at 3:31pm. They claim I was doing 34 during the school zone enforcement time. I have a video recording of it. They park that van there every single day and entrap 10-20 people per day, without due process or the right to confront their accusers. It's an obvious case of corruption and abuse of power.

I have sued the city and county over it and refused to pay the fine. We'll see how it goes. The nice part is if they declare it a violation of due process, this would cover all photo radar and red light cameras across the country because due process is a constitutional right.
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So if I understand you correctly. You were doing 34mph on the side of the street that switches at 3:24p?

Funny thing about fighting traffic tickets - police departments hate it. How dare you question their authority. I fought a speeding ticket in CA and won. Despite the Duty Sergeant guaranteeing they'd win after they received my request for discovery.

I once got pulled over in a school zone for speeding as well, but the cop let me off when I showed him the sign had set times for the speed.
 
Spidey329 said:
So if I understand you correctly. You were doing 34mph on the side of the street that switches at 3:24p?

Funny thing about fighting traffic tickets - police departments hate it. How dare you question their authority. I fought a speeding ticket in CA and won. Despite the Duty Sergeant guaranteeing they'd win after they received my request for discovery.

I once got pulled over in a school zone for speeding as well, but the cop let me off when I showed him the sign had set times for the speed.
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Pretty pathetic that you had to show the officer what the posted laws were.
 
dgingeri said:
about darn time.

Oh, and BTW, in US case law, if one federal circuit court rules, it goes for the entire US, unless the appeal goes up to the next level and fails. In this case, I doubt it will go up any further.
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federal circuit court rulings are only binding authority on other *federal* courts within their same circuit

federal rulings can be persuasive authority in other jurisdictions but that's up to the judge if he or she wants to abide by the ruling. The DC court is recognized as an authority, out of deference, and only because historically it's a step away from the Supreme Court (and the justices appointed are often in line for higher promotions) but it's only advisory.
 
PNut12345 said:
Are you wanting plate readers gone or are you concerned about how long the data is stored?
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I have no problem with plate readers. Plates are on display to the public, including LEO's. If it helps them recover stolen vehicles or remove people from the roads that shouldn't be driving even better. I just don't want them storing location data on my vehicle any time the plate is read. That's an invasion of my privacy.
 
dgingeri said:
I have sued the city and county over it and refused to pay the fine. We'll see how it goes. The nice part is if they declare it a violation of due process, this would cover all photo radar and red light cameras across the country because due process is a constitutional right.
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Re-read what you wrote there and then laugh with me.

Do you think you are the first person to ever dream up the due process argument?
You sped through a photo radar, pay up and step off the gas, simple as that.

And before you attempt to cite the constitution again you should read it yourself so you know what the fuck you are talking about. Due process only applies to criminal charges. Your traffic ticket is a civil matter. Sweet jesus, it's not rocket science to figure this out.

Enjoy paying all the court costs once you lose.
 
Thuleman said:
Re-read what you wrote there and then laugh with me.

Do you think you are the first person to ever dream up the due process argument?
You sped through a photo radar, pay up and step off the gas, simple as that.

And before you attempt to cite the constitution again you should read it yourself so you know what the fuck you are talking about. Due process only applies to criminal charges. Your traffic ticket is a civil matter. Sweet jesus, it's not rocket science to figure this out.

Enjoy paying all the court costs once you lose.
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He didn't speed through anything - he was doing the actual speed limit for the times posted in that school zone. Due to a double combo fail of having your school zone times set wrong, and a money hungry POS photo radar van.

Is it really a drivers responsibility to know that even though the school zone lights are off (and hence showing it's legal to go 35) that REALLY you have to do 20 for an extra 10 minutues because someone else sucks at their job?

I wouldn't be surprised if the whole setup is rigged... after all what percentage of people would go through at the legal posted speed, get the ticket, and then magically remember that one 10 minute window where things are crazy.

Did you even read his situation? You are basically telling him he should pay the fine for the government having wrongly calibrated speed zone signs.
 
PNut12345 said:
Are you wanting plate readers gone or are you concerned about how long the data is stored?
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I say both.

While I can envision a use case for plate readers that would help society, this is obviously not why they are doing it.

The way they are storing data (and spreading it to other databases) is ultra bad and dangerous. It can almost only lead to bad things.

The problem is, we as society cannot if the plate readers purpose is being extended beyond its original intent. The only way to be sure the data is not being use improperly is to prevent it from being collected in the first place.
 
Its no longer illegal, they've just changed to a "Dont ask Dont tell" policy.

https://news.yahoo.com/us-pushing-lo...lTwmEAb7zQtDMD
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Actually This could be a real issue, I'd like to know more about this one.

Stingray was developed for use in Iraq and Afghanistan, our Military used it for tracking down the bad guys, specially when we were moving in on them for capture. Because it's is equipment that would be used to conduct SIGINT, the NSA has to OK others to use it, and they have to use it under the same restrictions as the NSA would. Technically there is no legal way that any Law Enforcement can use this device unless they go through the same processes as the NSA would have to go through. Against a US Citizen the cops would have to get a warrant, period. I would say that the cops are violating EO12333 unless someone can show that this executive order doesn't apply to the cops as they are not a Federal Agency for instance.
 
They'll just say the tracking system is too complex to turn off after the judge orders them to quit doing it for the 4th or 5th time.
 
OK, rereading EO12333 it's pretty clear that it only pertains to US Intelligence Activities, not the cops. Doesn't mean what they are doing is legal, doesn't mean they still shouldn't need a warrant. Just that the basis for illegality is not EO 12333.
 
HydroBudz said:
I have no problem with plate readers. Plates are on display to the public, including LEO's. If it helps them recover stolen vehicles or remove people from the roads that shouldn't be driving even better. I just don't want them storing location data on my vehicle any time the plate is read. That's an invasion of my privacy.
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Agreed on both counts. Although, to me at least, the readers seem like they would take the fun out of finding stolen cars. It turns out I'm really, really good at finding stolen cars. I actually kinda hate the fact that some other officers (we'll call 'em no-loads for now) could possibly start recovering as many stolen cars as I do. ;)
 
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