Ubuntu Better Than Windows 8 on Tablets?

CommanderFrank

CommanderFrank

Cat Can't Scratch It
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So says the former CEO of Canonical, Mark Shuttleworth about the performance of Ubuntu against Windows 8 operating systems running on a tablets. Take that statement with a grain of salt since Mr. Shuttleworth may be a wee bit biased on the subject of Ubuntu or anything Canonical for that matter. :D

Around four years ago we mapped out the vision — phone, tablet, PC, TV — and we built a design team and took that on as the challenge. The result you see is really elegant. This [the tablet version] is the missing link, the bridge, between what we showed you six weeks ago and the PC stuff.
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The performance might be better than Windows 8 on a tablet, though on functionality it would more depend on what the user wants.
And yes heatlesssun, I do understand that it won't be able to run Windows applications the same way one can on Windows 7 or 8 on a tablet, blah blah blah, we get it.

The Windows CPU scheduler is absolutely horrid, bouncing tasks from one core to the next almost constantly.
Also, the Windows compiler sucks complete ass, regardless of form-factor; this was an actual step back from what it was in Vista/7.
 
Red Falcon said:
The Windows CPU scheduler is absolutely horrid, bouncing tasks from one core to the next almost constantly.
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You're going to have to explain why that's a bad thing. As far as I can tell there's no penalty for handling threads this way.
 
Unknown-One said:
You're going to have to explain why that's a bad thing. As far as I can tell there's no penalty for handling threads this way.
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If a processor's IPC isn't very good, it can definitely make applications have a performance hit.
SMP applications will obviously take more of a hit than single-threaded apps.

Why do you think multi-CPU SMP folding is so much better under Linux? ;)
 
Red Falcon said:
Also, the Windows compiler sucks complete ass, regardless of form-factor; this was an actual step back from what it was in Vista/7.
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What compiler are you referring to, specifically? I was not aware that Windows came with any compiler.
 
Someday, I would love to have people come on here and actually comment on Windows 8 in an intelligent way instead, herp derp, it sucks, you like, you stup, herp derp. You guys are just as bad as the so called "free", "unbiased" press. :rolleyes:

Personally, I like the opportunity to use it all and enjoy it all. I predominately use Windows 8 as my primary OS but, that is only because it is stable and works so well. Linux is a lot of fun to use and learn but, for me, is not good enough to fulfill the job that I do to use a my primary OS. (Still use it though and it has helped when I needed file access from Linux and OS X formatted hard drives.)

To much whining and not enough doing, oh well, have fun.
 
ManofGod said:
Someday, I would love to have people come on here and actually comment on Windows 8 in an intelligent way instead, herp derp, it sucks, you like, you stup, herp derp. You guys are just as bad as the so called "free", "unbiased" press. :rolleyes:

Personally, I like the opportunity to use it all and enjoy it all. I predominately use Windows 8 as my primary OS but, that is only because it is stable and works so well. Linux is a lot of fun to use and learn but, for me, is not good enough to fulfill the job that I do to use a my primary OS. (Still use it though and it has helped when I needed file access from Linux and OS X formatted hard drives.)

To much whining and not enough doing, oh well, have fun.
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That street runs two ways buddy. Most of us quit bothering with intelligent arguments about win 8 because the supporters quit providing intelligent answers. It was the same tired responses that had been shot down over and over and over and some of us just got sick of it.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
That street runs two ways buddy. Most of us quit bothering with intelligent arguments about win 8 because the supporters quit providing intelligent answers. It was the same tired responses that had been shot down over and over and over and some of us just got sick of it.
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The thing is, none of those answers have been shot down at all, you just do not like the answers. It seems that you all would rather we just agree with you and not make solid, well thought out points like has been happening for the most part.

The fact that you do not agree with those points does not make them wrong and in fact, are most often correct.
 
Oh, and I do not see anyone insulting someone just because they do not like Windows 8 so, the opponents may need to look in the mirror more often.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
That street runs two ways buddy. Most of us quit bothering with intelligent arguments about win 8 because the supporters quit providing intelligent answers. It was the same tired responses that had been shot down over and over and over and some of us just got sick of it.
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No most of the stark proponents of 8 here won't accept that many do like the os.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
That street runs two ways buddy. Most of us quit bothering with intelligent arguments about win 8 because the supporters quit providing intelligent answers. It was the same tired responses that had been shot down over and over and over and some of us just got sick of it.
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When it comes to matters of opinion it's not really possible to shoot anything down. I and many other people that like and use Windows 8 have said that it isn't perfect and have agreed with some of the criticisms made of it. But in using it everyday from everything from watching TV, writing code, working on Office documents, taking notes, etc. I simply don't know how I'm supposed to agree with something when the issue isn't a problem for me personally.

For instance, the debate about the full screen Start Screen. I can appreciate that it bothers a lot of people but I don't see how exactly it disrupts workflow from a technical standpoint. What's the point of going to the Start Menu? To do something other than what you were already doing, workflow is disrupted at that point. And wherever one would go after the Start Menu tends to open another program or window that will probably cover up what you were doing before anyway.

Now the Start Screen is a different in that because of Live Tiles one might very well simply want to look at a Live Title for some quick info and then go right back to what they were doing before they went into the Start Screen. I do this frequently do get quick updates on stocks, current headlines, message notifications, etc. So I can quickly get look at this stuff and go right back to what I was doing and the full screen allows a lot to be seen quickly. It's very similar to looking at desktop gadgets with the Aero desktop peek.

So again, I can appreciate that people don't like the full screen Start Screen, maybe there should be an option to set up just how much space it does use, but the idea that it's full screen nature inherently disrupts workflow doesn't make a ton of sense when the very point of going into the Start Menu is generally to disrupt workflow and move on to something else that often covers up where you were before.
 
ManofGod said:
Oh, and I do not see anyone insulting someone just because they do not like Windows 8 so, the opponents may need to look in the mirror more often.
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Selective memory then, because it has come from both sides and sorry most of the reasons for Win 8 on anything non touch got shot down with flat facts. Supporters just stuck their heads in the sand and ignored it.

Back on topic.

I am interested in the Ubuntu just from a curiosity stance, but I really don't see what it brings to the table that isn't already out there. If I am going on a pure tablet non x86 platform then android is the most versatile. If I need x86 then surface covers that. Don't get me wrong, more competition in this sector is a good thing. I just don't see what value it offers right now.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
Selective memory then, because it has come from both sides and sorry most of the reasons for Win 8 on anything non touch got shot down with flat facts. Supporters just stuck their heads in the sand and ignored it.
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This is simply not true for everyone that likes Windows 8. I just gave an example of looking at a criticism, it wasn't ignored. I simply didn't come to the same conclusion because in using the product for as long as I have and as for many things as I do, I simply haven't seen this particular issue affect my use of the OS on a desktop.

Dekoth-E- said:
Back on topic.

I am interested in the Ubuntu just from a curiosity stance, but I really don't see what it brings to the table that isn't already out there. If I am going on a pure tablet non x86 platform then android is the most versatile. If I need x86 then surface covers that. Don't get me wrong, more competition in this sector is a good thing. I just don't see what value it offers right now.
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With iOS, Android and Windows on the market, Ubuntu on tablets has a hell of a lot of competition. Perhaps Linux on tablets can succeed where it hasn't on the desktop, but with three other major tablet platforms out there and this still being a year away, I don't know what this beings to the table in a year that doesn't exist already.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
I am interested in the Ubuntu just from a curiosity stance, but I really don't see what it brings to the table that isn't already out there. If I am going on a pure tablet non x86 platform then android is the most versatile. If I need x86 then surface covers that. Don't get me wrong, more competition in this sector is a good thing. I just don't see what value it offers right now.
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The cost advantage of the OS.

For what they offer in performance and capability, tablets are generally overpriced, imho. They are incredibly convenient in some ways because of the formfactor and people gleefully pay through the nose for that convenience. But shaving whatever the Windows 8 licensing cost off the tablet would be a plus.

It also isn't hyper controlled walled garden the RT version of WIndows tablet is.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
Selective memory then, because it has come from both sides and sorry most of the reasons for Win 8 on anything non touch got shot down with flat facts. Supporters just stuck their heads in the sand and ignored it.
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Uh, I use it everyday on multiple non-touch devices (and occasionally on my Surface RT, my only touch device) without issue. Is there something I'm supposed to rage about? I got over the few and far between issues of the start screen over a year ago.
 
How good is Office or email on tablets, that is a decision point.
Or on the other hand, compare Android and iOS to Ubuntu.
 
Red Falcon said:
If a processor's IPC isn't very good, it can definitely make applications have a performance hit.
SMP applications will obviously take more of a hit than single-threaded apps.
Click to expand...

Again, you're going to have to explain how Windows thread scheduling is detrimental to this, I don't see where there's a performance penalty for distributing load in this fashion.

Red Falcon said:
Why do you think multi-CPU SMP folding is so much better under Linux? ;)
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That has not been my experience with folding, either...
 
Red Falcon said:
The performance might be better than Windows 8 on a tablet, though on functionality it would more depend on what the user wants.
And yes heatlesssun, I do understand that it won't be able to run Windows applications the same way one can on Windows 7 or 8 on a tablet, blah blah blah, we get it.

The Windows CPU scheduler is absolutely horrid, bouncing tasks from one core to the next almost constantly.
Also, the Windows compiler sucks complete ass, regardless of form-factor; this was an actual step back from what it was in Vista/7.
Click to expand...

Back up your statements with facts please.
 
Unknown-One said:
Again, you're going to have to explain how Windows thread scheduling is detrimental to this, I don't see where there's a performance penalty for distributing load in this fashion.

That has not been my experience with folding, either...
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CvP said:
Back up your statements with facts please.
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A context switch occurs when the kernel switches the processor from one thread to another—for example, when a thread with a higher priority than the running thread becomes ready. Context switching activity is important for several reasons. A program that monopolizes the processor lowers the rate of context switches because it does not allow much processor time for the other processes' threads. A high rate of context switching means that the processor is being shared repeatedly—for example, by many threads of equal priority. A high context-switch rate often indicates that there are too many threads competing for the processors on the system.
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http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc938606.aspx
 
Unknown-One said:
That has not been my experience with folding, either...
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I would tend to believe it if my experiences with Linux programs hold true for folding. I can tell you my system gets a 15 to 20% performance bump just by being in Linux and running the same program(s) and often a whole lot more depending on what it is.

For example Handbrake/H.264 encodes on 720p content in Windows can take 12 minutes for a 30 minute clip. In Linux is takes 6 minutes, Same system, same program and same versions too. The only difference is the OS.
 
kac77 said:
I would tend to believe it if my experiences with Linux programs hold true for folding. I can tell you my system gets a 15 to 20% performance bump just by being in Linux and running the same program(s) and often a whole lot more depending on what it is.

For example Handbrake/H.264 encodes on 720p content in Windows can take 12 minutes for a 30 minute clip. In Linux is takes 6 minutes, Same system, same program and same versions too. The only difference is the OS.
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I would believe that the specific hardware you have in your computer may play a larger role than you might think. Sounds like you have Linux drivers that don't suck, which aren't available for everyone's hardware.

Honestly, I've used a number of different Linux distros and I've never seen a performance boost on any of the machines I've installed them on.

Of course, that could just be the lack of properly written drivers, which is generally an issue you encounter in Linux.
 
ballistic90 said:
I would believe that the specific hardware you have in your computer may play a larger role than you might think. Sounds like you have Linux drivers that don't suck, which aren't available for everyone's hardware.

Honestly, I've used a number of different Linux distros and I've never seen a performance boost on any of the machines I've installed them on.

Of course, that could just be the lack of properly written drivers, which is generally an issue you encounter in Linux.
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What kind of drivers would you possibly need to perform video encoding inside of a piece of software like Handbrake?
 
You guys can argue about personal opinions, and state your own, all you want -- It doesn't matter. Personal opinions don't mean squat. It's only when we can gather those opinions to represent a large group of people to see just how a product has fared.

It has now been four months since Windows 8 was released, and the latest figures show that its growth — in terms of market share, mind share, and the number of apps in the Windows 8 Store — is almost at a standstill.

In the month of February, according to Net Applications, Windows 8 gained 0.4% of the desktop market, moving from 2.26 to 2.67%. In comparison, Windows 7 had a market share of over 9% after four months of public availability. A growth rate of 0.4% is absolutely horrendous, and — if we assume that PCs are replaced every five years — actually below the natural attrition/replacement rate. If growth of 0.4% wasn’t bad enough, it’s also worth pointing out that it’s down from 0.5% in January — yes, Windows 8 adoption is slowing down. Windows 7, after a small dip last month, actually gained market share in February.
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http://www.extremetech.com/computin...-windows-8-adoption-is-almost-at-a-standstill

Let's back up the Win8 success or failure discussions with sales figures. Otherwise don't bother arguing about it, imo.

The Windows thread scheduler has actually improved with Win8, but Windows still has a long ways to go with respect to multi-threaded and multi-processor computing. This, coincidentally enough, is also a leftover of the Win32 legacy days where most (practically all) applications were written as single- or dual-threaded. The thread bouncing can also have a negative impact on battery life
 
pelo said:
You guys can argue about personal opinions, and state your own, all you want -- It doesn't matter. Personal opinions don't mean squat. It's only when we can gather those opinions to represent a large group of people to see just how a product has fared.



http://www.extremetech.com/computin...-windows-8-adoption-is-almost-at-a-standstill

Let's back up the Win8 success or failure discussions with sales figures. Otherwise don't bother arguing about it, imo.

The Windows thread scheduler has actually improved with Win8, but Windows still has a long ways to go with respect to multi-threaded and multi-processor computing. This, coincidentally enough, is also a leftover of the Win32 legacy days where most (practically all) applications were written as single- or dual-threaded. The thread bouncing can also have a negative impact on battery life
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Those aren't sales figures FFS. :rolleyes:
 
400px-IT_%28South_Park%3B_The_Entity%29.jpeg


Windows 8 reminds me of that super efficient car that Mr Garrison designed on South Park.
 
Who cares Ubuntu has no future on the desktop or phone. It can be the fastest greatest OS ever built if no one else is using it and you cant find it on any contract phones its dead in the water.
 
Red Falcon said:
Actually, with a Pentium 4 and HyperThreading, yes, yes there is!
Two threads for the price of one! :D
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that's still 2 logical CPUs Mr. Wrongness! :p

Linux suuucks (I just started then aborted an Ubuntu download just to make you sad! :D)
 
Unknown-One said:
You're going to have to explain why that's a bad thing. As far as I can tell there's no penalty for handling threads this way.
Click to expand...

It keeps every core of the processor active, increasing power usage. It also prevents the processer from TurboBoosting to its highest clock level on CPU intensive single-threaded tasks.
 
kac77 said:
I would tend to believe it if my experiences with Linux programs hold true for folding. I can tell you my system gets a 15 to 20% performance bump just by being in Linux and running the same program(s) and often a whole lot more depending on what it is.

For example Handbrake/H.264 encodes on 720p content in Windows can take 12 minutes for a 30 minute clip. In Linux is takes 6 minutes, Same system, same program and same versions too. The only difference is the OS.
Click to expand...
I actually do a substantial amount of video encoding with Handbrake, to the point that I had considered a dedicated encoding box for it. I tested out Handbrake on multiple OS's, and those numbers make no sense to me whatsoever.

64bit handbrake on 64bit Windows 7 tended to be roughly 5% faster than 64bit handbrake on 64bit Ubuntu. I had to do some fairly long / heavy encodes for it to make much of a difference. For most intents and purposes the two were indistinguishable on performance.

For reference, speedstep was disabled and turbo multi was locked during my testing. Keeping those enabled caused seriously erratic performance from handbrake on ubuntu.
 
damicatz said:
It keeps every core of the processor active, increasing power usage. It also prevents the processer from TurboBoosting to its highest clock level on CPU intensive single-threaded tasks.
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Er, it keeps one core active at a time. It doesn't magically make one thread use multiple cores, it just moves it around (the graph average is a bit deceiving in that regard).

I've had no issues with TurboBoost enabling for single-threaded applications... in fact that's where it's most helpful and works the best... :confused:
 
DeathPrincess said:
that's still 2 logical CPUs Mr. Wrongness! :p

Linux suuucks (I just started then aborted an Ubuntu download just to make you sad! :D)
Click to expand...

LMAO!!!
Oh noes, the poor download of Ubuntu!

Actually, since I switched from F@H to BOINC, and due to all of the cloud/invasive crap in Ubuntu 12.xx, I will probably dump Ubuntu/Debian officially once support for 10.04 Desktop is up next month.

Suck it you Gentoo boob! :D
 
I went to Best Buy to get a partial refund on a harddrive that I bought last week. (It went on sale this week so I saved $16 which is good.) Well there, I looked over the tablets and they had an ASUS Windows 8, not RT, tablet for $499 not including the keyboard.

It had a dual core Intel Atom Z2760 at 1.8GHz, 10.1 inch screen at 1366 x 768, 2GB of ram and a 64GB SSD. It has up to 9 hours of battery life as well and looks fantastic. :) These machines are getting better and better all the time and a better price as well.

Well, I already have an ACER W500 tablet so getting another one was not needed. That said, it is encouraging seeing them out and improving. Ubuntu on a tablet appears to have the same swipe featuring as Windows 8/RT so it could be good but, we will see.
 
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