Curt Schilling Says His Game "Wasn't Fun"

Even though the implosion of 38 Studios has been covered by just about every media outlet on the planet, this article is still surprisingly good reading.

“The game wasn’t fun,” he says, unprompted, beside the softball field. “It was my biggest gripe for probably the past eight to 12 months.” Visually, Copernicus was stunning, but the actual things you could do in the game weren’t engaging enough. The combat aspects especially lagged. Schilling — who never wavered in his belief that the game would be great — says the MMO was improving, but after six years, it still wasn’t there.

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Pirates did it.

9 pages? Where are the Cliff Notes? First page was good but my caffeine rush only lasts for so long.

I always find stories like this very interesting.

KoA was fun for 15 hours, then got boring. If you can't even make a single player game fun for longer than 15 hours, how would you handle a big MMO?

In short, Curt Schilling is a former baseball player who decided to start a game company. He didn't have an original idea in his head for a game, but wanted to cash in with a WoW MMO clone. He's an asshole who got in everyone's way, but he tried to buy the love of his employees with perks. His company produced a crappy game and then went bankrupt. They didn't pay back the balance of the $75 million dollar loan from the government or give people their final paychecks.

Stone Cold said:

In short, Curt Schilling is a former baseball player who decided to start a game company. He didn't have an original idea in his head for a game, but wanted to cash in with a WoW MMO clone. He's an asshole who got in everyone's way, but he tried to buy the love of his employees with perks. His company produced a crappy game and then went bankrupt. They didn't pay back the balance of the $75 million dollar loan from the government or give people their final paychecks.

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That's a little harsh bro. CS was a great pro player, who loved playing MMO's and video games during his time playing baseball, and he's also a fan of strategy board games, and I believe he bought out one of the board game companies so that he could hold his own board game convention, which he holds every so often.

His problem was he knew nothing about actually RUNNING a video game company and making it work.

And got taken advantage of by investors.

That said, he probably wasn't the best for handling and getting investors, but he clearly tried. I think he got taken for a spin, from what I've all read and what I know about start-ups/SMB.

Fail said:

That's a little harsh bro. CS was a great pro player, who loved playing MMO's and video games during his time playing baseball, and he's also a fan of strategy board games, and I believe he bought out one of the board game companies so that he could hold his own board game convention, which he holds every so often.

His problem was he knew nothing about actually RUNNING a video game company and making it work.

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"The company encouraged its 379 employees to continue coming into work, even though it knew it could not pay them. "

"But he also shovels much of the blame onto Rhode Island Governor Lincoln Chafee..."

"Schilling put his wife, Shonda, on the board of directors. Shonda’s father received a job in IT... her mother was given the title “philanthropy and charity manager.”... Shonda’s uncle, William Thomas, became COO..."

"He’d undermine managers by randomly dipping in to give direct orders to employees: “His requests added significant work, and were often contrary to the direction given by other people.” Former staff members also charge that Schilling was stubborn and ignored people when he didn’t like what they were saying..."

Worst of all, as far as I can gather, his only intention was to milk WoW's popularity with a pale imitation. All this paints a picture of an *sshole.

Do you know how infuriating it is when you're a manager and you give your subordinate good instructions and then the owner comes along and randomly tells your subordinate to do something different? Lack of business experience just makes this kind of thing less excusable.

Fair enough! Still reading.

Stone Cold said:

"The company encouraged its 379 employees to continue coming into work, even though it knew it could not pay them. "

"But he also shovels much of the blame onto Rhode Island Governor Lincoln Chafee..."

"Schilling put his wife, Shonda, on the board of directors. Shonda’s father received a job in IT... her mother was given the title “philanthropy and charity manager.”... Shonda’s uncle, William Thomas, became COO..."

"He’d undermine managers by randomly dipping in to give direct orders to employees: “His requests added significant work, and were often contrary to the direction given by other people.” Former staff members also charge that Schilling was stubborn and ignored people when he didn’t like what they were saying..."

Worst of all, as far as I can gather, his only intention was to milk WoW's popularity with a pale imitation. All this paints a picture of an *sshole.

Do you know how infuriating it is when you're a manager and you give your subordinate good instructions and then the owner comes along and randomly tells your subordinate to do something different? Lack of business experience just makes this kind of thing less excusable.

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Exactly, it's easy to defend the guy when you ignore the big picture but the reality is lack of experience, lack of ethics, lack of a conscience and a massive ego on his part ruined the company and the game. If not for the awesome support of the dev community pulling together to find work for his devs it would have ruined lives as well.

what game, I'm missing something or out of a loop, but what game was the studio developing?

His problem was he knew nothing about actually RUNNING a video game company and making it work.

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The same problem with most posters on here who crusade against ANY developer trying to maximize profit. Mthings like getting worked up for charging for dlc and such.

People don't work for free.

Schilling basically got hooked on Evercrack back in the day, played alot, and later thought he could manage his own game company. He failed and is now broke beyond belief.

XvMMvX said:

The same problem with most posters on here who crusade against ANY developer trying to maximize profit. Mthings like getting worked up for charging for dlc and such.

People don't work for free.

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It doesn't sound like he wanted to maximize profit, let alone, even make a profit, as this was clearly a huge failure from top to bottom.

XvMMvX said:

The same problem with most posters on here who crusade against ANY developer trying to maximize profit. Mthings like getting worked up for charging for dlc and such.

People don't work for free.

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The gaming industry had survived without selling little turds called DLC for years.

These companies are just getting greedier, waiting more money without the extra work. Consequently, there's no value in those stuff they put out.

XvMMvX said:

The same problem with most posters on here who crusade against ANY developer trying to maximize profit. Mthings like getting worked up for charging for dlc and such.

People don't work for free.

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Hornet said:

The gaming industry had survived without selling little turds called DLC for years.

These companies are just getting greedier, waiting more money without the extra work. Consequently, there's no value in those stuff they put out.

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The difference between these 2 posts couldn't be any more stark, and Hornet is RIGHT on the money. (Oh Fail, why you so punny? )

Most DLC is crap, just look at Mass Effect 3, they intentionally put shitty endings in the game, and you had to get DLC to get the "real ending"

Yeah . . . . no wonder I haven't bought any new games at all lately. They simply aren't that fun anymore.

Fail said:

The difference between these 2 posts couldn't be any more stark, and Hornet is RIGHT on the money. (Oh Fail, why you so punny? )

Most DLC is crap, just look at Mass Effect 3, they intentionally put shitty endings in the game, and you had to get DLC to get the "real ending"

Yeah . . . . no wonder I haven't bought any new games at all lately. They simply aren't that fun anymore.

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I agree with you 100% Except for the Indy games which genuinely deserve my money there really aren't many *triple A* kinda games I'm buying these days, and if I do happen to buy them it's on a steam sale for 5$ with all the DLC over and done with.

Stone Cold said:

"The company encouraged its 379 employees to continue coming into work, even though it knew it could not pay them. " He was trying to keep the company running

"But he also shovels much of the blame onto Rhode Island Governor Lincoln Chafee..." Lincoln Chafee is not totally innocent in this matter. He never wanted it, and took the first opportunity to sink it.

"Schilling put his wife, Shonda, on the board of directors. Shonda’s father received a job in IT... her mother was given the title “philanthropy and charity manager.”... Shonda’s uncle, William Thomas, became COO..." You're blaming him for wanting to start a family company?

"He’d undermine managers by randomly dipping in to give direct orders to employees: “His requests added significant work, and were often contrary to the direction given by other people.” Former staff members also charge that Schilling was stubborn and ignored people when he didn’t like what they were saying..." Not defending this, but it's difficult to run a creative company. As a cg artist, I know.

Worst of all, as far as I can gather, his only intention was to milk WoW's popularity with a pale imitation. All this paints a picture of an *sshole. Your opinion. Opinion's are like assholes, everyone has one, and they all stink.

Do you know how infuriating it is when you're a manager and you give your subordinate good instructions and then the owner comes along and randomly tells your subordinate to do something different? Lack of business experience just makes this kind of thing less excusable.

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I'm no schilling apologist, but he gave it a good faith effort. He was just another guy who thought he wanted to make video games.

"Fun" is an incredibly nebulous concept that sometimes can't be manufactured, or predicted. It takes a lot of trial and error to find a new "fun" idea that is unique, or even to apply an existing idea in a new way. It's like writing a book: If rewriting something you wrote to make it better makes you frustrated, you're not going to survive the process.

And DLC, applied properly, isn't a bad thing, but it too often is applied terribly. The Dawnguard DLC for Skyrim is a good example, as the game was complete without it and it adds its own storyline. Borderlands also did it correctly as well. I'm not sure how this got to talking about DLC, though.

Moral of the story: He should have just taken a large sum of his money and donated to an established developer that knew WTF they were doing and asked for some "creative control" over certain aspects of the game. The end result would have likely been MUCH better. That being said, I agree with a previous poster that he gave it a good faith effort. He was already rich, didn't come into the industry with the wrong intentions. He just had no idea how to manage a company or make a video game, so it's not surprising that it didn't turn out the way he expected it to.

He knew his game wasn't fun? It's a shame the majority of developers don't figure that part out before they release something.

Fail said:

The difference between these 2 posts couldn't be any more stark, and Hornet is RIGHT on the money. (Oh Fail, why you so punny? )

Most DLC is crap, just look at Mass Effect 3, they intentionally put shitty endings in the game, and you had to get DLC to get the "real ending"

Yeah . . . . no wonder I haven't bought any new games at all lately. They simply aren't that fun anymore.

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Are you referring to the Extended Cut DLC ? That was free.

Nookie420 said:

what game, I'm missing something or out of a loop, but what game was the studio developing?

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KOA was the game, which did come out...um, last August?

KoA was a very "fun" game and I wouldn't call it a wow "clone" as the combat, spell, exploration, and crafting systems of KoA were leagues ahead of anything blizzard had in that industry retarding game of theirs.

Schilling, on the other hand, was garbage. He should of just invested in an already established company to create the game. Money in, product out, profit.

I enjoyed Amalur, but it was probably too big for its own good. Like the TES games, you're a juggernaut by the end of the game if you even do 1-2 major side quests. In the case of Amalur, that was multiplied times 50. There's just not motivation to do most of the quests in the game.
I'd imagine that an MMO would compound that.
Pacing was the real problem, but the game concept and engine were solid.

Taldren said:

KoA was a very "fun" game and I wouldn't call it a wow "clone" as the combat, spell, exploration, and crafting systems of KoA were leagues ahead of anything blizzard had in that industry retarding game of theirs.

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The company was working on an MMO after KoA. The MMO clearly took a lot of its look and feel from WoW (google for screenshots/trailer) - and I think he's talking about the MMO when he says his game wasn't "fun".

percydaman said:

I'm no schilling apologist, but he gave it a good faith effort. He was just another guy who thought he wanted to make video games.

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His effort isn't in question - but his decision making and ethics should be. He was a millionaire celebrity who tried to do something he knew nothing about and drug a lot of other people's time and money (and by extension their lives and families) into it with him.

When his company failed, it misled and mistreated its employees. He either had a hand in that or he irresponsibly lost control of his company.

percydaman said:

I'm no schilling apologist, but he gave it a good faith effort. He was just another guy who thought he wanted to make video games.

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I don't think this company was born in good faith, I think it was born in vanity.

percydaman said:

I'm no schilling apologist, but he gave it a good faith effort. He was just another guy who thought he wanted to make video games.

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I also feel he put in a good faith effort.

The problem wasn't necessarily that he didn't know how to run a video game company.

It also wasn't that he didn't know fundamentals of business or how to run a company.

He didn't even understand the basics of working in an office or office life.

He didn't understand the concept of vacation, and he thought it would be cool if people worked 14 days and then got 5 off, just like in baseball. It's like the guy was from a different planet.

Having been completely engulfed in the world of professional sports for his entire career not only didn't help him in his business endeavors, it put him at a huge disadvantage compared to ordinary people.

Of course, his overconfidence also didn't help.

He was smart enough to realize that he didn't know enough about the video game business, or running a business in general, so he hired experts in their fields. The problem was that when he didn't like what they were saying, he stopped listening to them

And then when it all fell apart he dealt very poorly with his dream being shattered, and held on to long to the point where he almost ruined lives.

I like Curt Shilling. I think he's a decent guy with solid convictions, but the truth is he was in WAAAAAAY over his head.

Not just in his business acumen.

He was in over his head from a perspective of business, from his understanding of the game industry, from his understanding of normal office work like, from his ability to relate to normal people and from a standpoint of maturity.

Most people - relatively early in their lives - encounter things that don't go their way, and they are humbled by it. Professional athletes - especially those that shoot straight up to the top, and stay there until retiring (as opposed to spending years in the minors, and having a dwindling post peak career) - are so sheltered by their environment and their life experiences that they are stunted in their emotional development, to the point where they come across as a child.

This was the problem with 38 Studios.

His childish immature overconfidence led him to not want to start small, but go straight for the gold without any experience, it led him to disregard the experts he had hired when he didn't like what they were saying, it made him overspend on perks and benefits, it made him not take a realistic approach to giving up equity for investment, and finally led him to not give up and shut down the company in an orderly fashion when the shit was finally hitting the fan.

I still like Shilling, but it should be clear that he was in no way, shape or form ready for this kind of undertaking, unless he was ready make an investment, and then step away from it, and allow his management team to do their jobs.

I think the bigger issue here isn't how Schilling may have managed or mis-managed the company. The big issues here are:
1. Multiple investors all red flagged 38 studios as a MASSIVE long shot
2. They were denied any incentives from the state they were in (MA)
3. They had no original product. KoA was a product they bought into
4. They were 2 years behind schedule on a product that any game developer or industry expert said was incredibly difficult to pull off for experienced developers.

There is more...the multiple reports of mismanagment, ridiculous perks and wasteful spending...HOW did Rhode Island think this was a good idea. All of the above and Schilling blames the current governor (not that I am a fan of him) because he didn't dump more money into the project. Six years of refusing to give up any equity and the company was on the verge of a complete failure and bankruptcy, only then did Schilling consider giving some up to investors. He failed on his promise to warn employees...because "he didn't know what to say"....but had he had the balls and told them...maybe that trailer that got an standing ovation from employees...would have gotten out and gotten a standing ovation from investors. His complete and utter lack of any ability to see his failings caused it. Even now he says he doesn't know how to be any other way...when he has failed so completely.

Yeah...here is a great big serving of humble pie....that as a Rhode Islander I am paying for.

Zarathustra[H];1038972574 said:

I also feel he put in a good faith effort.

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People start businesses to make money, lots of money - from you. Of course he put in a good faith effort to make lots of money from other people.

Nookie420 said:

what game, I'm missing something or out of a loop, but what game was the studio developing?

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Age of Reckoning, they even tried promoting the demo through Mass Effect 3, if you even launched the game you got some special armour created by Todd McFarlane (also a baseball player on his way to the pro's but knackered his shoulder, took up comic books instead and created Spawn...as well as the black suited Spider-Man) armour is s#!t before you bother, looks great but the stats are pathetic.

SkribbelKat said:

He knew his game wasn't fun? It's a shame the majority of developers don't figure that part out before they release something.

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My take is that while Schilling was filling the leadership of this company with friends and family, he hired competent people for the grunt work. They competently did their job. That is, they did their job without a bit of inspiration because they weren't happy there, and that's why their game is grinding and boring

The developers knew the game wasn't fun, but they didn't care. They would have cared at first, but Schilling destroyed their passion.

I like Curt Schilling, I like that he was willing to make such a gamble to start up a video game company. The choices that followed were not great. KoA was not a bad game, the problem I see with his gaming philosophy comes with the game he was trying to emulate. He wanted to compete with WoW and in doing so he wanted to copy WoW. Even in KoA: Reckoning it felt like you were playing an MMO alone. That isn't how I want a single player game to be. I wish things had worked out better for 38 studios.

Curt Schilling and his damn bloody sock in the 2004 ALCS. His company's bankruptcy makes up for it a little, I guess.

beowulf7 said:

Curt Schilling and his damn bloody sock in the 2004 ALCS.

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That 2004 ALCS was the best baseball series in history.

A week of showing up a zombie to work the next day, three games in a row being over 4 hours long, one of them over 5 and one almost 6 hours long, each game being a nail biter to the very end, and then finally defeating the evil Yankee empire in 7 games after the best comeback in baseball history...

I went to Game 1 of the World Series in Fenway park after that. It was anticlimactic in comparison. Nothing could come even close to that ALCS.

Mungojerrie said:

I like Curt Schilling, I like that he was willing to make such a gamble to start up a video game company. The choices that followed were not great. KoA was not a bad game, the problem I see with his gaming philosophy comes with the game he was trying to emulate. He wanted to compete with WoW and in doing so he wanted to copy WoW. Even in KoA: Reckoning it felt like you were playing an MMO alone. That isn't how I want a single player game to be. I wish things had worked out better for 38 studios.

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You like that he was willing to take a gamble with his employees lives and taxpayer money?

Are you Mitt Romney by chance?

Disposed said:

You like that he was willing to take a gamble with his employees lives and taxpayer money?

Are you Mitt Romney by chance?

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I have no love of Romney (or Obama) being a Libertarian ... but what gamble did he take with taxpayer money? I know Obama has with all the now bankrupt green energy initiatives he created, but haven't heard anything of gambles Romney made. I assume he did something as Governor by your statement, so I would be interested to hear about it if you have the time. Send me a PM so we don't flood this thread with OT information.

As for the other half of your comment ... every business "gambles" their business to one extent or another which will affect employees lives. From what I understand, Bain Capital created positive net jobs during the tenure of Romney at that company. Yes people had lost jobs, but the companies became profitable again and created more jobs then they lost.

Taldren said:

I have no love of Romney (or Obama) being a Libertarian ... but what gamble did he take with taxpayer money? I know Obama has with all the now bankrupt green energy initiatives he created, but haven't heard anything of gambles Romney made. I assume he did something as Governor by your statement, so I would be interested to hear about it if you have the time. Send me a PM so we don't flood this thread with OT information.

As for the other half of your comment ... every business "gambles" their business to one extent or another which will affect employees lives. From what I understand, Bain Capital created positive net jobs during the tenure of Romney at that company. Yes people had lost jobs, but the companies became profitable again and created more jobs then they lost.

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Curt Shilling negotiated a $100M loan guarantee from the state of Rhode Island in exchange for moving his company there, after countless venture capital firms turned him down, as they thought his company didn't have the required experience to pull off what they were trying to do.

Now that 38 Studios is out of business, the state of Rhode Island is out the $100M.

Sure, Former Rhode Island Governor Donald Carcieri (a Republican) is probably mostly to blame for setting up the deal and playing fast and loose with state money, but Shilling does share some of the blame for gambling with public money...